Updated
Summary
President Biden slams the MAGA threat to the rule of law. The DOJ is set to respond to Trump`s request for a special master for the Mar-a-Lago classified documents. Senator Elizabeth Warren speaks out on student debt relief. Congressman David Cicilline discusses the threats to democracy. What does the Republican Party really think of America and Americans these days? A Louisiana woman being forced to carry a fetus with a fatal condition speaks out.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: We broke down a song tonight.
And we`re going to put it up on THE BEAT WITH ARI Twitter page, @THEBEATWITHARI. If you want to go listen to it yourself, visit @THEBEATWITHARI.
That does it for me.
THE REIDOUT starts now.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on THE REIDOUT:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me say this to my MAGA Republican friends in Congress: Don`t tell me you support law enforcement if you won`t condemn what happened on the 6th.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: Don`t tell me.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: Can`t do it. For God`s sake, whose side are you on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The head-spinning Republican ideological switcheroo, as President Biden, the Democrat, slams the MAGA threat to the rule of law, while Trump`s Republican pals threaten riots in the streets.
Plus, at any moment, we`re expecting to DOJ`S response to Trump`s request for a special master for those classified documents he stole and stashed at Mar-a-Lago.
Also, tonight, there was a time when Republicans campaigned with messages like “Morning in America.” Now they think Americans are lazy bums. I`m not sure they would even want to govern such a country of supposed slackers.
Senator Elizabeth Warren joins me.
But we begin tonight with President Biden in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, near his hometown of Scranton, sending a sharp rebuke to the MAGA agenda and calling out the Republicans and the right as the real threats to the rule of law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: But now it`s sickening to see the new attacks on the FBI, threatening the life of law enforcement agents and their families for simply carrying out the law and doing their job.
There is no place in this country — no place for endangering the lives of law enforcement. No place.
(APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: None, never, period.
I`m opposed to defunding the police. I`m also opposed to defunding the FBI.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Meanwhile, we`re seeing once again that Donald Trump is nothing but consistent, maniacally posting on his and Devin Nunes` pretend Twitter thing a string of messages promoting QAnon conspiracy theories as he faces numerous investigations.
One might call these posts, posts from a man who`s very much afraid, and gathering whatever friends that he can, however weird and dangerous they might be. We have Trump go on a QAnon on social media rant days after a senior Republican senator warns of street violence if Trump is charged with a crime.
Well, President Biden certainly had words on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The idea you turn on a television and see senior senators and congressmen saying, “If such and such happens, there`ll be blood in the street.”
Where the hell are we?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Remember, this is all happening against the backdrop of MAGA world losing its collective mind over Biden using the F-word, fascist, to describe their philosophy. OK, semi-fascist, but still.
Well, there actually is a history of fascism in America. In fact, a pro- Nazi movement in the 1930s and early 1940s was a very visible political movement, and certainly a frightening one. Look at this. This is a photo of a Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden in New York City. Its attendees were raising Nazi salutes toward a portrait of George Washington, and that`s six months before Adolf Hitler invaded Poland.
It was perhaps the most organized attempt to bringing Nazism to the forefront of American life. And this appeal extended far beyond the fringe, as noted by “The Washington Post,” saying it reached prominent citizens such as Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh.
Lindbergh was known to many as the famous long-distance aviator and the victim of a famous baby kidnapping, but you know what else he did? He praised Adolf Hitler as undoubtedly a great man.
So, when President Biden references fascism, he isn`t doing it lightly. Yes, what we`re dealing with today is a long way from the pro-Nazi movement of the 1930s.
But there are disturbing echoes, the open racism, the calls for violence, vilification of immigrants, book banning, and rejection of democratic norms, which is why Biden is ramping up his travel ahead of the midterm elections, including a rare prime-time speech scheduled for this Thursday in Philadelphia, a city acutely linked to this nation`s pursuit and promise of freedom, and also where President Obama delivered his famous — his famous and historic race speech in 2008, before eventually picking a running mate named Joe Biden.
We are at a crossroads in this country. There`s no doubt about it. And, in two days, outside Independence National Historic Park, an American president will address what the White House calls the battle for the soul of the nation.
[19:05:09]
Then it`s up to the voters to decide this fall which side we`re on and how much we`re willing to fight for it.
Joining me now is David — Congressman David Cicilline of Rhode Island, a 2021 impeachment manager and the author of “House on Fire: Fighting for Democracy in the Age of Political Arson,” and Asha Rangappa, former FBI special agent and a lecturer at Yale`s Jackson Institute for Global Affairs.
Thank you both for being here.
And, Congressman Cicilline, I have seen some of your interviews. And I know your book actually goes right at this theme. President Biden, he`s sort of channeling — like, he`s kind of a mix between the President Biden that was a senator and like — and Eric Adams, the mayor of New York City, right, this sort of, we`re not for defunding the police, we`re for the rule of law.
But the bigger picture of what he`s trying to say is that you have an entire political party whose kind of thematic is, we don`t get what we want, we`re going in the streets and we`re going to burn everything to the ground.
Your thoughts?
REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI): Yes. No, I think that`s exactly right.
Look, this is a very perilous time. “House on Fire” is a book about the moment we`re in. I looked at my experience both as a mayor, as a member of Congress, as someone who battled Trumpism for four years and then served as an impeachment manager. So I recount things that worked, things that didn`t work.
But the real purpose of the book is to sound the alarm about the dangers we face in terms of protecting our democracy, and that everyone needs to understand what`s at stake in this election. This is not a normal Republican Party anymore. This is a Republican Party of chaos, and corruption, and QAnon, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, and the big lie, and a party that is willing to excuse the former president no matter what he does.
They concoct excuses for his misconduct. And this is very dangerous. If you look at the checklist for fascism, the kind of authoritarian leader, the use of violence, the kind of obsession with a plot, the demonizing of others, all these things are trademarks of the kind of authoritarian leader or fascist leader that we don`t want in this country.
And we really need to understand what`s at stake and how important it is for everyone to really understand that, in this election, we have a fundamental choice. Are we going to protect American democracy? Are we going to give power to this group of people who are engaged in very anti- democratic behaviors?
REID: You know, Senator Lindsey Graham did try to sort of clean up on aisle five, Asha Rangappa, on his comments about there`s going to be riots in the streets. Let`s listen to him doing that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If there`s a prosecution against President Trump based on mishandling classified information, after what happened with Hillary Clinton, there will be frustration and, I fear, violence.
I reject violence. I`m not calling for violence. I — violence is not the answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK, he can say what he wants, but during the Ketanji Brown Jackson hearings, Asha, Lindsey Graham essentially played the QAnon game, which was to try to tar anyone who isn`t a MAGA Republican as a pedophile or supporter of pedophiles.
That is straight out of the QAnon playbook. He has played ball with all of the intonations toward the White Replacement Theory. He has played the game, and now he`s trying to back away from it. But I don`t think anybody can hear what he said before as anything other than a threat.
Walking that back, to me, doesn`t change it much. For you, as a person was in the business of trying to stop these kinds of threats, what do you hear when you hear politicians sort of playing it on both sides?
ASHA RANGAPPA, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Yes, Joy, that`s actually a rhetorical strategy called paraleipsis. It`s saying something while claiming not to be saying it: I`m not saying that there`s going to be riots in the streets and blood everywhere, but there`s going to be riots in the streets and blood everywhere.
And so it`s a way of having plausible deniability, while also putting that call out there. And so this is part of a larger playbook. I would say the QAnon playbook is really a part of what Congressman Cicilline was just describing. It`s a part of the authoritarian playbook.
And that — the line of questioning you mentioned during the Supreme Court justice`s confirmation hearing is about demonizing, us vs. them, creating this idea of some great past that we`re — we need to get back to, because all of these outsiders are sending us down downhill.
I mean, the congressman laid out a lot of the different tactics that are used. And I think Senator Graham is basically just on board and he`s using one of them.
REID: And, Congressman, there`s a poll. This is an “Economist”/YouGov poll from August 20 to 23, right?
I mean, there were — when I was growing up, the Republicans were the morning in America, Reagan, sunny optimism, even though they were selling a lot of, like,anti-poverty, anti-poor people, throw all the welfare, anybody who`s on social — on welfare under the bus kind of politics.
[19:10:11]
But on top of it, layered on top of it was this sort of optimistic message.
If we can put that poll back up now, among Americans, strong Republicans, 54 percent of them believe civil war is likely. Among all adults. 43 percent believe civil war is likely. Even Democrats and independents, a plurality is saying, yes, we`re likely to have a civil war. I hear people talking about it all the time.
There is real, real talk that is not fanciful about whether the United States can continue as a republic, whether we have to break up into a couple of countries, because people don`t feel that it`s possible to live with these two parties in one country. And you have the Republicans, who also, if you look at the polling, the majority of them believe that white men and that white Christians are literally under siege in America.
Ron Brownstein was tweeting about that the other day. So, when you have that kind of a situation and a Republican Party playing to that, I don`t see how you govern a country like that.
CICILLINE: Well, I think what we have to do, and I think what Democrats are doing, have to do two things.
We have to continue to deliver to the American people. And I think we have done that, both in making sure that we took care of small businesses and struggling families and reduced the cost of prescription drugs and childcare. All the things that folks are concerned about, Democrats are delivering. So we have to continue to do that, make sure people know what we have done. Every step of the way, Republicans have been against that.
And, at the same time, we have to be sure to characterize the Republicans for what they are and what they`re doing, and call it out very directly. Every time we stand up to a lie that they use to try to poison American politics, we`re defending democracy.
And I think we just have to do both of those things and we will prevail in November. Make sure the American people understand what we have done to respond to the pandemic, to respond to the economic calamity that followed, and how we`re rebuilding America`s economy. Make sure they understand Republicans have blocked us at every turn.
And, most importantly, make sure they understand what a threat to democracy this ultra-MAGA Republican movement is. It is an anti-democratic, anti- freedom movement. It`s premised on a big lie. It will excuse the criminal misconduct of the president by making kind of crazy excuses.
So I think we have to do that. And we have to characterize them and call them out for what they are and understand this is the fight of our lifetime. This is about whether or not we`re going to live in a democracy, or whether or not we`re going to give power to people who have lost the right to be in control of our economy, of our health care, of our democracy.
REID: And, Asha, if Joe Biden, who`s the most middle-of-the-road, pro- police, working-class, sort of inoffensive, purposefully inoffensive politician in our — of his generation, is painted as an extremist who isn`t even a legitimate president of the United States by the right — he`s not even the black guy that was president before him.
And Donald Trump, who stole national security secrets and hid them in his house, in his bedroom is considered almost a Jesus-like figure for people in the MAGA world, how much danger are we in, really, and how much danger is this upcoming election in? How much should we be nervous?
RANGAPPA: Well, I completely agree with the congressman.
Trump has a cult of personality that`s — if you look at, for example, the history of the North Korean leaders, this is how it starts, this sort of creating this mythological origin story, and we`re seeing some of that happen.
And the lessons that you have from authoritarians around the globe is that it`s easier to prevent them from coming into office than it is to get them out once they`re there. We learned that lesson, frankly, on January 6.We`re very lucky because we did get him out. So we kind of get a do-over.
But we need to take that lesson very seriously. The other lesson is that it`s easiest to defeat these movements when you create a coalition, which means that, at some level, you set aside some policy differences, so that you can all be on the same side of fighting for democracy. And for this reason, I`m glad that both the congressman and President Biden are calling these MAGA Republicans, because it may be that there are Republicans like Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger who are willing to stand up to the manifestation of this movement.
It`s best to join forces with them now to defeat it, and then go back to fighting with everybody later. But you have to address the urgent threat first.
REID: I — listen, I know a lot of them. I`m friends with some of these Republicans.
And I have said to them — Rick Wilson and I have said this to each other. We can back to fighting later about policies. We don`t agree on anything. But, for now, we`re on the same side even with Liz Cheney. Yes, we are, just for now. You have to make sure this MAGA stuff is put to the side.
Congressman David Cicilline, author of “House on Fire,” good luck with the book.
[19:15:01]
CICILLINE: Thanks.
REID: Asha Rangappa, thank you very much. I appreciate you both.
We`re waiting on the DOJ`s response to Donald Trump`s request for a special master to oversee the classified documents he stole and kept at his House. It could come at any moment.
The latest is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Any moment now, the Justice Department will submit a response to Donald Trump`s bid for a special master to oversee the FBI`s review of the documents seized in the Mar-a-Lago search.
[19:20:00]
The rebuttal is expected to be up to 40 pages` long, after the agency said the 20-page limit wasn`t sufficient to — quote — “adequately address the legal and factual issues raised” by Trump, though the judge in the case, Trump appointee Aileen Cannon, has already signaled her intent to grant her benefactor — I mean, sorry, the former president`s wish.
Trump`s feeble attempt to appoint a third-party overseer shouldn`t come as a surprise. In fact, it`s straight out of the legal playbook Trump`s used for years in nearly every investigation way back since his presidency. And that is to delay, delay and then delay.
“The New York Times” writes: “Appointing a special master could block the government from continued access to the files until the special master has gone through them, and would potentially pave the way for lengthy litigation that could bog down the investigation,” meaning, even if his claims are eventually rejected, he could use the slow pace of the legal process to do what he does best, and that is run out the clock.
Joining me now, Charles Coleman, civil rights attorney and MSNBC legal analyst.
And, Charles, you mean, this does feel like it`s very — the usual stonewalling. Trump did this with January 6. They claimed executive privilege, and then that took forever to litigate. On his tax returns, he kept saying, well, I`m under audit, I`m under audit, I`m under audit. And he kept rejecting, trying to sort of say, we`re going to do it next month, do it again, do it again.
The grand jury from the Russia probe. In 2020, the Supreme Court denied Congress access to his secret grand jury testimony from Robert Mueller`s investigation after an appeals court ruled that they could see the evidence. He just keeps litigating and litigating and litigating. And it`s been a strategy that`s worked for him. Is it going to work again?
CHARLES COLEMAN JR., MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Joy, that remains to be seen.
I think if you take a step back, and you look at the landscape of what we`re seeing here from a 30,000-foot view, there are several different spaces where it does appear that the Trump legal team is going to try the delay tactic.
I foresee and predict that, when it comes to the selection of a special master — first of all, it`s very unusual that the judge would have, in advance of hearing the arguments from both sides, already so strongly indicated that they are leaning toward granting a special master, even though they haven`t heard the arguments from either side, pro or against, or from both sides, pro or against.
And as you so aptly called him, the benefactor, that is something that is unusual in a case like this. But the discussion of a special master is going to be the first place where team Trump tries to provoke some level of delay, because they`re going to fight about their qualifications. They`re going to fight about who it is that is selected. Even if it`s somebody who they like or who they want, they`re going to do that, because that`s going to cause a delay.
And then, as you go further down the road, like you said, and like that “New York Times” article indicated, there are going to be numerous documents that they try to litigate over and over and over again. The question becomes, what happens with the DOJ in the interim period?
And what I mean by that is, team Trump is trying to figure out what Donald Trump`s next move is outside of the court of law. And so that is ultimately going to dictate how this case proceeds and how far it goes with respect to not only the continuing investigations, but the decision of to whether — as to whether they indict Donald Trump for the many different ways that he`s broken the law.
So that`s really going to be the linchpin in terms of deciding where this case goes one way or the other.
REID: In your career litigating for regular people who are not Donald Trump, have you ever heard of any defendant being able to, for instance, litigate over a special master, saying they need to be able to review the documents that were seized after they have already done it? They have already reviewed the document that were seized.
They have already did it. So that`s a moot point, but he still gets to litigate it, and getting to go back and back and back. Could any other American, any other person in your career, your illustrious career as a prosecutor, ever use this much stalling and delay to keep one step ahead of the law?
COLEMAN: Well, Joy, many have tried, and very few have been successful.
I can say that most people who are in this space that have the resources — and that`s a very important point that I want to point out about privilege and access to the justice system. When you have the monetary resources to paper litigation to death, it is not unusual to sort of see this type of thing play out.
But you said something that`s really important. You talked about the fact that the DOJ and FBI have already indicated that they have gone through the documents. Essentially, Merrick Garland and the DOJ, they are playing chess. Donald Trump and his legal team, they`re playing Uno.
(LAUGHTER)
COLEMAN: And that`s just the only — that`s the only way I can explain it, because, at this point, they have taken away every reason that they would need to have a special master.
And so by saying, look, we have gone these documents, we have identified attorney-client privilege stuff, we have identified things that need to be returned to the National Archives, and then we have identified material that`s so sensitive and so private and so top secret in nature, that it has to be returned to the actual government and cannot be in public purview, they have made the issue of a special master actually moot.
But, to your question, no, this would normally not be successful, quite frankly, because most normal folks don`t have the resources that are going to allow them this type of delay, because it just gets so costly.
[19:25:05]
And, secondly, most judges, in the interest of judicial economy and moving their own docket and calendar, are not going to put up with this.
But, in this case, as you pointed out, we`re dealing with a Trump appointee, so anything goes.
REID: You know what else most people don`t do? Take classified documents home and put them in their bedroom. Most people don`t do that, because, if you do that, you end up in prison.
Anyway…
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Charles Coleman always love talking with you. Thank you very much. Really appreciate.
OK. Whew.
Coming up, still ahead, Senator Elizabeth Warren will join me live.
But, first, from love it or leave it to America sucks, the weird, potentially dangerous devolution of the conservative idea of America itself.
And that is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:30:34]
REID: There was a time when, in American politics, the way that you ran for president, the clearest way to win was to express optimism about America, whether you were a Democrat or Republican.
Remember Ronald Reagan, the happy warrior Hollywood actor selling the American dream? He perfected that model of politics with morning in America. In fact, the Republican Party branded itself as the America, love it or leave it, party to beat up on Democrats, who they labeled as the blame America first crowd, until another celebrity icon, Donald J. Trump, came along and told us something very different and politically unusual, that America is terrible, that we just don`t win anymore, that we basically suck.
And now a whole new generation of Republicans have made that their entire strategy, literally denigrating the American people, supposedly to win elections.
In a tweet, Arizona`s Republican Senate candidate Blake Masters sarcastically blamed diversity at the Federal Reserve for the economy, which I might add is at full employment. And when he got the totally predictable smoke, he dug in on that position in a video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAKE MASTERS (R), ARIZONA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t care if every single employee at the Fed is a black lesbian, as long as they`re hired for their competence, and not because of what they look like or who they sleep with.
News for Joe Biden: We are done with this affirmative action regime. If you want to see the affirmative action regime on display, just look at Biden`s White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Only in a Trumpified America is electing the first woman vice president who previously served as the first woman district attorney in San Francisco and the whole entire attorney general of California, positions to which, again, she was elected, just as she was elected vice president of the United States, only in Trumpified world is that a nefarious affirmative action hire.
And let`s not forget, this is coming from the party that thought it wisdom to put forth Sarah “I can see Russia from my house there and so,” Sarah Palin, for the same job. I mean, they legitimately thought that that lady should be one click from the nuclear codes.
And yet Republicans of U.S. President Biden`s plans to cancel $10,000 in student loans and $20,000 for those who also receive Pell Grants to demonstrate their bona fides with red-blooded Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): He`s the one who is robbing hardworking Americans to pay for Karen`s daughter`s degree and lesbian dance theory.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL: I mean, paying off loans for people that don`t want to — they want to have some bizarre basket weaving degree, and they want all of us people watching across this country, hardworking men and women, to subsidize their laziness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: What is lesbian dance theory? It sounds fabulous.
Kimberly Guilfoyle should have an understanding of who takes out student loans. I mean, she did go to law school once upon a time, which brings me to another complaint raised by the Republican Senate nominee in Oklahoma.
Markwayne Mullin decried: “Farmers and ranchers, small business owners and teachers paying the debts of Ivy League lawyers, doctors.”
Congressman Mullin, I should note, had $1.4 million in PPP loans forgiven. And, make no mistake, there are farmers and small business owners and teachers who take out loans to go to college too, and not all those lawyers work at big firms or in private practice or get $1.4 million in PPP loans.
Now, to be clear, the median debt for bachelor`s degrees in agriculture, nursing, business, administration and education are all upwards of $20,000. As for postgraduate degrees, the veterinarian treating those farm animals, they owe on average about $157,000. U.S. law school debt is $160,000 and more than $215,000 for medical school.
And unless you think we don`t need any more doctors or you ignore how many congresspeople and senators are also lawyers, you might want to get more young people to get a higher education and encourage that.
And those Pell Grants, they are only for undergraduate education and are income-based, meaning, if you are low-income or working-class, you`re the one who Republicans hate for taking out that loan to go to college. God forbid you should try to go to law school and become a public defender or run a rural health clinic.
Guess what? Too bad. Drown in your debt, while the politicians who hate you get their six-figure and seven-figure PPP loans forgiven, despite earning $174,000 a year in tax-paid salary.
After the break, we will actually hear some cents on student loan forgiveness, when Senator Elizabeth Warren joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:39:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Let me tell you just one of the things we can do with a 2 cent wealth tax.
We can cancel student loan debt for 43 million Americans. And because African-Americans have to borrow more money to go to college, borrow more money while they`re in college, and have a harder time paying it back when they get out, that one law is going to help close the black/white wealth gap for people with student loans by about 20 points.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Senator Elizabeth Warren made forgiving student loans a central component of her platform during her campaign for president.
[19:40:00]
And while the candidate who declared “I have a plan” for almost everything didn`t become the nominee, her ideas have played a big, huge role in the momentum that made student loan relief a reality.
While President Biden`s plan doesn`t cancel all of the debt, it does help millions and millions of Americans. Up to one-third of the 45 million people holding federal student loans could see their debts forgiven. J. despite Republican efforts to cast it as elitist, a Wharton study found that at least 75 percent of that debt relief will go to households making less than $82,400 a year, because, hello, people, rich people`s kids don`t get student loans. They don`t need them.
So Biden`s idea directly helps the working class. Republicans know that. And they know it`s politically popular, which is why they`re flinging themselves around like drunken chickens trying to spin the idea as bad and unpopular, including this laughably out-of-touch moment from Senator “I sun myself in Cancun while the poors in my state freeze” Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): If you are that slacker barista who wasted seven years in college studying completely useless things, now has loans and can`t get a job,Joe Biden just gave you 20 grand, if you can get off the bong for a minute and head down to the voting station, or just send in your mail-in ballot that the Democrats have helpfully sent you.
It could drive up turnout, particularly among young people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Joining me now is Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.
And, Senator, I note that Ted Cruz went to Harvard. I went to Harvard too.
WARREN: And Princeton before that.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: And Princeton before that.
And the only way I was able to go to Harvard is because I was smart. So, I was able to get scholarships, academic scholarships. Had I not, the loans that I took out that took me about 15 years to pay back would have been 100 percent of the education that I got.
So, when he talks about people going to Harvard, there were a lot of working-class kids like me who didn`t have any money and who was only able to go to school because of loans.
So, when he talks about elite people, he is the elite person. How can they be trying to make this argument that working-class kids who get student loans don`t deserve a break?
WARREN: Yes.
If Ted Cruz would step outside his carefully insulated bubble, he might end up talking to some of the people who end up with student loan debt really. And, as you say, some are kids of modest backgrounds who end up going off to college, although, Joy, I got to put a little plug in here.
Harvard, 2 percent of the students have to borrow money. State schools, it`s more than 50 percent of the kids have to borrow money to make it through. And historically black colleges and universities, it`s more than 80 percent.
In other words, the more — the bigger, the more diverse student body that you serve…
REID: Yes.
WARREN: … the more of them are having to borrow money to make it through.
REID: That`s right.
WARREN: But here`s the thing. That`s just for the college portion of these kids.
About 40 percent of all the folks who are dealing with student loan debt do not have a four-year college diploma. These are people who are barbers and nail technicians, people who are truck drivers, people who do sheet metal, people who have had to go to school.
Understand this. Generation back, the employer helped train them and get them through it.
REID: Yes.
WARREN: But now these are folks who have to go to a certificate program, car mechanics, and they pay for it themselves.
And, sometimes, it all works out great, and they can afford to pay for it. But, a lot of times, it doesn`t. And so we have got people who are earning at a high school graduates level and paying off student loan debt, and it is crushing them.
And that`s the part that really gets me here.
REID: Yes. And the thing that…
WARREN: It`s about saying that these people are somehow lazy.
REID: Yes.
WARREN: These are people working two and three jobs.
REID: That`s right.
WARREN: These are people who are busting their tails trying to keep food on the table, make the rent, and still pay an average of 400 bucks a month to Uncle Sam on their student loan debt.
So, I have just had it with this idea…
REID: Yes.
WARREN: … that these are somehow the slackers in America?
No, these are the hardworking, middle-class, working-class folks who are trying to build a future for themselves,and they`re caught in a system that just crushes their bones.
And anybody who would get outside their tight little cushy bubble would actually learn that.
REID: And the thing is, is that they love to go after baristas.
WARREN: Oh, yes.
REID: But a lot of people who are working behind that coffee counter are paying their rent and taking care of their children with that money.
[19:45:05]
And they sure do like to go in there and get their little latte from that person and expect that person to be there to serve them. But that person deserves actually to have a financial future too.
I just have to show you this. This is the thing that really burns me, Senator. These people, like Marjorie Greene, and Vern Buchanan, and Markwayne Mullin, and Kevin Hern, and Mike Kelly, and Matt Gaetz, they took advantage of PPE and got hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans to their businesses repaid. They were able to take advantage of that.
They don`t see a problem with themselves getting our tax money to pay back their loans. But they have a problem with somebody getting $10,000 or $20,000 in loans paid back? Why can`t we have some kind of an end to — why should they be eligible for those loans? They work for the government.
WARREN: But that is really the whole point here. These are people who are well-to-do. They meet with their well-to-do friends. They meet with well- to-do lobbyists.
And that`s all they see in this game. They said that that`s all they`re out there to do. Let`s help the well-to-do. And that seems like a very reasonable thing to do for them.
And they forget that more than 90 percent of the folks who take advantage of this, are going to be able to cancel student loan debts actually have a family income of less than $75,000. Let`s watch these guys try to get along on less than $75,000. Let`s see them pay their friends and buy their fancy suits and do all the things they want to do and then complain because those folks are having trouble with $400-a-month student loan payments.
The whole thing really is not just outrageous. It`s a reminder of who the Republicans are fighting for. Think of it this way. Just let`s back this machine up and look at what`s happened over the past few years. The Republicans were in control four years. Donald Trump`s in charge, right?
And what is the one big accomplishment they get? Well, let`s do two, two big accomplishments they got, a tax break that went to the billionaires and the giant corporations, and a bunch of extremist judges who are out of touch with the rest of us…
REID: That`s right.
WARREN: … and going to tell us how to live our lives.
The Democrats get in control, and what do we try to do? Well, we get out there and say, we`re going to reduce carbon emissions by 40 percent. And here`s the deal. We`re going to pay for it by actually making those giant corporations that are paying almost nothing pay at least a minimum 15 percent corporate tax.
We`re going to cut what people have to spend on insulin monthly. Now, the Republicans fought us and rolled back the part that would have helped everybody, but at least we got it through for folks on Medicare. We`re going to let Medicare negotiate the cost of prescription drugs. We`re going to put a $2,000 cap on what people spend.
These are things that matter to people. That whole climate initiative, cut emissions and produced millions of jobs all across this country.
REID: Yes. Yes. Yes.
WARREN: That`s what Democrats do.
And now, even with the skinniest possible majority, that`s what Democrats have delivered.
REID: Yes. Yes.
And letting people who are not rich get a break, catch a break every once in a while, sorry, that is the least that we can do for folks. And, by the way, when Ted Cruz goes to get his next coffee, the baristas should turn their back and walk away and say, sorry, I`m going to go be a slacker now, because, apparently, you don`t think that I should be here doing this job.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, I appreciate you. Thank you for being here. Cheers.
OK, coming up: A Louisiana woman — get this — this is wild. A Louisiana woman is being forced to carry a fetus with a fatal condition as a result of her state`s draconian abortion ban.
That woman, Nancy Davis, and her attorney, Ben Crump, join me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:53:38]
REID: The end of Roe v. Wade has unleashed horrifying trauma and chaos on millions of women across this country.
Let me introduce you to Nancy Davis, a loving mother of two teenagers and a toddler. A few months ago, she was ecstatic to learn that she was pregnant again. Ten weeks into her wanted pregnancy, doctors at Woman`s Hospital in Baton Rouge discovered that her fetus had a rare and fatal condition in which the baby`s skull would not grow.
The doctors delivered the shattering news. If she brought her pregnancy to term, the baby would be stillborn or survive maybe several minutes or up to a week. The physicians advised Davis to terminate the pregnancy, but said they could not perform the abortion procedure.
You see, Louisiana is one of 13 states that have some of the most restrictive bans on abortion. The current laws on the books in Louisiana are a confusing patchwork of restrictions that penalize doctors who perform abortions with up to 15 years in prison.
The Louisiana Department of Health clarified that there are exceptions for pregnancy that is medically futile. The list of conditions include several congenital disorders and chromosomal abnormalities. The list also includes a catch-all exception for other — quote — “profound and irredeemable abnormalities incompatible with life.”
But you need the position — the permission of not one, but two doctors. Nancy`s heartbreaking situation does not appear on the state`s list of acceptable conditions for an abortion exception. And Louisiana`s law is so punitive and vague that medically trained professionals bound by the Hippocratic oath and — are literally too scared to do their jobs.
[19:55:07]
Let me just repeat that. In these forced-birth red states, doctors must roll the dice and decide if they are willing to risk going to prison to help their patients. Does that sound sustainable to you?
Nancy Davis, who says that she was left to carry her baby, only to bury it, is left to grapple with the reality that her child will not survive. And nobody in Louisiana will help her. Ms. Davis must now travel hundreds of miles away to find someone who will.
Nancy Davis joins me now, along with her attorney, Ben Crump.
Ms. Davis, thank you for being here. And I`m sorry that you have to be here.
I want to ask first, how are you doing? When are you planning to travel? And are you — have you secured a place that you can go for treatment?
NANCY DAVIS, PREGNANT WITH FETUS WITH FATAL CONDITION: Yes, ma`am. Thank you so much for having me as well.
I`m doing OK. I`m taking it day by day. I plan on having the procedure done this week.
REID: And how difficult was it to find somewhere to go? Because, I mean, Louisiana is deep in the South. And a lot of those neighboring states have similar laws.
DAVIS: It was difficult. It was — I had to do some research and background on These different places and reviews or whatnot.
But it was difficult finding somewhere else to go.
REID: To go.
How did you feel when you were told your infant will not survive, but we can`t do this procedure for you here in Louisiana?
DAVIS: I felt horrible.
It was very traumatizing hearing that coming from the hospital that I`m accustomed to.
And what was the other question? I`m sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Oh, no, I was just — you answered the question perfectly.
And I do want to bring in Ben here, because Ms. Davis should not have had to deal with this, Ben. How is it possible that Louisiana, members of Louisiana House and Senate and the governor signed a law where they didn`t even clarify that somebody in Ms. Davis` position actually could get an abortion if medically needed?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR NANCY DAVIS: Exactly, Joy Reid.
And that`s why we`re calling on the governor and the legislator — leadership of Louisiana to have a special session to clear up these vague and ambiguous laws that don`t leave doctors with the direction whether they will lose their medical license or whether they will be in prison for 15 years.
And they leave it so terrible, that it is inhumane that Nancy Davis would have to carry this baby just to bury this baby.
REID: And, Ms. Davis, just to be clear, if you were to have to go through with this pregnancy to term, wouldn`t that risk your life as well?
DAVIS: Possibly, yes, ma`am.
Well, any pregnancy that you carry to term is a risk…
REID: Absolutely.
DAVIS: … whether the baby is completely normal or not.
REID: And you wanted to be pregnant. This was a wanted pregnancy?
DAVIS: Oh, of course.
REID: Yes.
DAVIS: Of course, yes, ma`am. I was elated to be pregnant.
It`s something that we planned and we accomplished. And to hear that news was very, very devastating.
REID: And is — are you going to be able to continue medical care with the doctors, as you said, to whom you`re accustomed after your treatment? Are those doctors comfortable treating you afterward?
DAVIS: Well, I don`t think I`m comfortable with them treating me afterwards, so I would say no.
REID: Yes.
And, Ben, that`s the situation, right? We`re essentially separating women from their health care, the health care they`re accustomed to, and some — in some cases from their state, their home. It`s unbelievable that this is happening.
CRUMP: Yes.
And, in Nancy Davis` case, she has to travel over 20 hours by car up to the Northeast to get the procedure, because so many of the Southern states that have done these draconian abortion bans after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade have left not only Nancy Davis, but many other women with a terrible predicament that they must face, even though the law should be clear and protect them.
This law in Louisiana does not. And it`s not just Louisiana, Joy Reid. It`s many other states across America.
REID: I want to say to Ms. Davis, I am so sorry that you had to come on TV and talk about your personal health situation. We here at the show just wish you all of the best. We`re praying for you. And thank you for coming on.
And thank you, my friend, Ben Crump.
DAVIS: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
REID: God bless.
That is…
CRUMP: This is a reason to vote, Joy.
REID: Thank you. Absolutely, it is. Amen.
That is tonight`s REIDOUT.
“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts now.