Updated
Summary
What do last night`s election results portend for the midterm elections? Democratic National Committee Chairman Jaime Harrison discusses Democrats` election outlook. Florida Congresswoman Val Demings and actress and activist Pam Grier speak out. New reporting from “The Washington Post” reveals details on Trump`s delay tactics as the government tried to retrieve classified documents that were in his grasp. President Biden makes good on a campaign promise, giving millions of students debt relief. Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley discusses student debt relief.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: A little view of summer in Manhattan as we sign off.
THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID is up next.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on THE REIDOUT:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE KORNACKI, NBC NEWS NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: With what appears to be left in this district, that is an incredibly steep hill to climb for Molinaro to make up basically 3,300 votes with what we know to be left in this district right now.
Pat Ryan, the Democrat, is in a — there it is. NBC News has just called it.
Pat Ryan, the Democrat, has been elected to Congress in a special election from New York`s 19th Congressional District. He defeats Republican Marc Molinaro.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Our very own Steve Kornacki, Kornackster, the Kornackarator, calling a victory last night in a bellwether special election where reproductive rights were very much on the ballot, a strong indication that, as some of us have been trying to tell you all, the Supreme Court nuking abortion rights has shifted the midterm momentum to the Democrats.
Plus, Val Demings joins me. She is now officially the Democratic nominee to take on Senator Marco Rubio in Florida.
Also tonight, new reporting from “The Washington Post” on Trump`s delay tactics as the government tried to retrieve classified documents that were improperly in his grasp.
And President Biden makes good on a campaign promise, and, as a result, millions of people will get badly needed student loan debt relief.
We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with a game-changer for Democrats. Now, if you hear a giant sucking sound right now, it could be the wholesale deflation of Republicans hopes to gain control of Congress this fall, after Tuesday`s election results in New York and Florida show that their planned red wave in the November midterms could be looking more like a red wheeze.
The biggest sign of the night, the special election in bellwether — the bellwether district in New York state, a bellwether just in New York state, where Democrat Pat Ryan defeated Republican Marc Molinaro.
Now, you may be asking yourself why an election in a district in Upstate New York is so important. Well, it`s because the Democrat, Ryan, campaigned heavily on protecting abortion rights, while the Republican, Molinaro, relied on the well-worn Republican talking points about inflation and crime.
And that should have Republicans scared. Take it from Big Board wizard Steve Kornacki last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KORNACKI: I think this is the clearest, this is the strongest piece of evidence yet — and there have been other pieces of evidence in the last few weeks — to suggest that the national political climate has shifted away from a Republican advantage toward a more neutral climate, a neutral climate that gives Democrats a chance certainly of holding on to the Senate, potentially to holding on to the House of Representatives.
When you get a result like this, this is not the result you would get, that you would expect to see in a strongly Republican political climate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Today, congressman-elect Pat Ryan spoke with NBC`s Dasha Burns about the message from voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT RYAN (D), NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN-ELECT: I think the message is, when fundamental rights and freedoms are under attack, we have to stand up. We have to fight. We have to be strong and clear. And when you do that, people rally.
I mean, the issues at stake, reproductive rights, abortion access, are fundamental rights that transcend partisanship. And we saw that in Kansas. We saw it last night here in New York. I think we`re going to continue to see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Ryan`s district, New York`s 19th, is one of several recent special elections where Democrats have overperformed.
Following the loss in Texas just before the Supreme Court`s Dobbs decision, in the four since Dobbs, one in Nebraska, one in Minnesota, and another in New York last night, Democrats cut into the former president`s margin of victory in 2020 by at least five points.
Meanwhile, in Florida, Democrats chose their fighters for two of the most consequential elections this fall. Congressman and former moderate Republican Governor Charlie Crist won the Democratic primary to challenge mini-Trump and “Top Gun” cosplay Governor Ron DeSantis.
Now, of course, last week, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell conceded that Republicans may fail to gain control of the chamber due to candidate quality issues. And, last night, one of his current flocks, Senator Marco Rubio, saw his worst nightmare come true, as Congresswoman Val Demings sealed — sailed to victory in the Florida Democratic primary over three opponents to take on little Marco in November.
Joining me now is Jaime Harrison, chair of the Democratic National Committee.
And, Jaime, if I can get my words out today. I`m flubbing them all over the place.
Talk to me about the message last night, because the Ryan wins seemed to be particularly salient. He beat Molinaro, who was a much better known politician. What does it say to you?
JAIME HARRISON, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Joy, last night`s election showed that, across the country, voters are excited to defeat these extreme Republicans who are running for Congress.
[19:05:06]
These are folks who don`t believe in choice, who don`t believe in reproductive freedom, who don`t believe in voting rights, who, hell, are against prescription drugs and helping veterans. They are extreme in every measure.
And these elections have shown. The last five since the Dobbs decision, including what happened in Kansas, are showing that people are fed up, they`re tired of it, and they`re pushing back, and they`re not going to be silent anymore.
REID: Do you think — do you feel like Republicans sort of misread the landscape? Because, I mean, they`re still talking about crime and inflation. Gas prices have been down for, what, like 60-some-odd days.
Mitch McConnell today went out and just assailed President Biden for cutting — for forgiving student loans, which young voters really like. Are they just misreading the landscape?
HARRISON: They are misreading the landscape.
And Democrats are doing something that — Joy, that we don`t always do well, which is we are defining the Republicans for their Extremism, but we are also out there selling about the issues how we have delivered.
Just look at Joe Biden on the student loan. Not only did he deliver on his campaign promise. He overdelivered in terms of what he`s doing for the Pell Grant program and those folks who receive Pell Grants. And this is just one of so many things, the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS Act, the PACT Act, Violence Against Women Act.
We can go on and on and on how Democrats, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have delivered in these two years, with a 50/50 Senate, mind you.
REID: Yes.
HARRISON: And that`s on a good day, and almost less-than-five-seat majority in the House.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: I saw that shade.
Listen, you come from a state that got written off for many, many, many, many a decade by Democrats in terms of their spending. Florida is one that you know. And you — so, you know I have been very dubious about my former home state, Florida.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: But should we be rethinking the possibilities of the statewide candidates, Val Demings and Charlie Crist in Florida?
HARRISON: Well, I have been telling folks from the beginning.
I remember talking to Val about whether or not she was going to run for governor or run for the United States Senate. Val Demings is the real deal, folks. And we need to double down and do all that we can to help her and Charlie beat back against Rubio.
Think about Rubio, DeSantis and Scott. That is like the triumvirate of despair. And we got to help Florida out. All across the country, we need to do everything that we can to help Florida out, because Val Demings and Charlie Crist will be one heck of a upgrade.
REID: The triumvirate of despair. See, my words are all flubbed. Your words are on point tonight.
DNC Chair Jaime Harrison, thank you very much.
He came to talk tonight.
Let`s bring in Congresswoman Val Demings, the Democratic nominee for United States Senate in Florida, after her big primary victory yesterday.
And I still call you Congresswoman. And, listen, congratulations last night.
What do you think that the message that voters are sending in choosing you, in choosing Charlie Crist out of the pack of candidates that were in each of your races? What message are you hearing in these elections?
REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Well, Joy, it`s great to be back with you.
And, look, I could listen to our chairman, Jaime Harrison, all night when he`s talking the talk that he`s talking tonight.
But, look, we won the primary, a four-way primary, with 84-plus percent of the vote. I think the voters in Florida sent a strong message that they want someone who is going to fight for them. We are fighting, as my friend and former colleague John Lewis said, for the very soul of our nation.
When people think it`s OK to just take away a woman`s constitutional rights, who`s next? And so we — Florida voters want a fighter. They`re sick and tired of the same old politicians with the same old tired talking points talking about what they`re going to do, but leaving the majority of Florida voters out.
So we`re excited about last night, but we`re more excited about what`s going to happen in November.
REID: So we know that the abortion issue has changed the entire game plan. It`s changed the entire game plan for Democrats. It`s changed the game in our current politics.
How is that issue, do you think, going to resonate in Florida? Because I know from personal experience how difficult it is to rouse Florida voters sometimes, even in places like Broward County, where I used to live. It`s a struggle.
But how do you actually motivate voters,motivate voters of color, younger voters? Is that the issue that`s going to get them to actually turn out and vote?
DEMINGS: You know, Joy, look, Florida is my home state. I was born and raised here, had opportunities to live other places, never wanted to. I wanted to stay and make Florida the state that I know it can be.
I think congressman-elect Ryan said it best. He said that choice and freedom were on the ballot. And guess what? Choice and freedom, in his words, won last night.
As I travel the state from the Panhandle down to the Keys in red and blue counties, I hear, of course, the voters talk about inflation. Of course, they talk about the price of gas and goods and services.
[19:10:02]
But they always talk about constitutional rights and the, what`s next? And I think Justice Thomas clearly telegraphed, yes, it`s women`s rights now. And people may think, well, that`s not their issue. But what`s next? Is it equality? Is it voting rights? Is it contraceptives? What`s next?
And people are scared and worried about that. And, yes, it is a top issue. And, look, for Charlie Crist and me, we are here to fight for the right to choose. We`re not going back. This is the fight that we`re well up for.
REID: OK, I need to play a clip from the — Monday`s show, Monday night`s show.
Your name came up, as did a very, very important and very wonderful celebrity, but I want to play it. This was Fernand Amandi, who we both know quite well. Here`s Fernand and what he had to say about you guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERNAND AMANDI, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Val Demings is like Pam Grier going up against little Marco.
(LAUGHTER)
AMANDI: You aren`t going to mess with that chick. She`s going to come over and kick your you know what.
And Rubio is scared. That`s why you see the whiny little e-mails.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK, so, surprise to the viewers and also potentially to the wonderful Val Demings, joining me now is the great Pam Grier, Foxy Brown herself in the house.
I can`t even — Jackie Brown, Foxy Brown. I mean, come on.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Hey, Pam Grier.
PAM GRIER, ACTRESS AND ACTIVIST: Oh, congratulations, Congresswoman Val Demings.
(LAUGHTER)
DEMINGS: Oh, my gosh. The amazing…
GRIER: I`m so excited for you.
Thank you for having me on, Joy. To Joy, just throw me in the fray. Thank you.
DEMINGS: Oh, my goodness.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Listen, listen, I love everything about you, except that you went to East High School, because you know I went to Montbello in Denver, so we could talk about that later.
But, listen, tell me, from your point of view, because people in your position, Ms. Grier, are always important in elections, because you all are motivators. People who are famous, celebrities utilize our voices, that people, sometimes, they won`t listen to a person on TV, they may not listen to a politician, but they will listen to you all.
For you, what do you think are the most important issues that people should pay attention to in these elections coming up, particularly in this Florida election?
GRIER: Well, most people — yes, most people want employment.
They want to feel uplifted. They want to feel like they count, they matter. And with the Democrats, we have been studying what`s — the electronic movements, such as the ICE, the conversion, gasoline engines to E.V. I mean, you can convert your hooptie into an E.V. for $3,000 to $5,000, because most people cannot afford the trickle down to $60,000, $100,000 E.V.s.
But 100 million people can, if you do that for them. Now we have got an IPO that could be the Starbucks of conversion garages, which will create employment, create your own batteries, USA-made, proud. And then we have the water-making machines.
We`re losing our water. It`s getting hot out there. And pretty soon they won`t be able to grow our crops. So you have your water-making machines for every home in America. They do it on the bases over in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have these containers that freeze the coils, blow warm air, creates condensation, water for the troops.
Why don`t we have water-making machines in our homes, so we don`t tax the water that they grow our food with? And the solar movement. So, the solar movement, the E.V., the conversion garages, we`re now creating employment, pride, priority, USA-made. That`s what people want, to feel like they`re a part of the solution, not a part of the problems.
REID: Well, I want to go to you, Congresswoman, because here`s the thing, is that, for younger people, between student loan debt and climate, which I think — what Pam Grier is talking about, those are really important issues to young voters.
DEMINGS: Those are really…
REID: What can be offered? Florida is the Sunshine State. You would think that Florida would be top of — would be sort of out ahead in terms of green energy.
DEMINGS: Those are really the priorities.
And, look, Joy, as you well know, we just passed the Inflation Reduction Act, lowering the cost of prescription drugs, lowering the cost of health care. But it is the most aggressive, historic piece of legislation to deal with climate change.
We know our young voters care about that, just like, as Ms. Grier indicated, they care about entrepreneurship. But think about the millions of jobs will be created just through our efforts to protect our environment.
But, look, my opponent, Marco Rubio, voted against the inflation reduction bill, couldn`t give a win to Democrats or this administration.
But let me say this. Marco Rubio sent out an e-mail saying his campaign was a disaster. I don`t agree with him on much, but I agree with him on that.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: He needed — well, he needed money. He`s a bit desperate for money, isn`t he? I mean, and he did beg for it.
Now, Pam Grier, I have to ask you this. How do we motivate — I mean, young people, I think, are fired up, because — particularly the Roe v. Wade issue. The issue of abortion has gotten people to focus. But what else would you say to people who say, I don`t know if my vote counts?
[19:15:00]
GRIER: They have a future. It`s not the end of the world. Tomorrow is going to come. It always has come.
There`s one thing that we can count on is, nothing lasts forever, but then we all move on, our life moves on. And those people think of the future. Look at all that they have created.
REID: Yes.
GRIER: We have cell phones. We never thought we`d have cell phones.
We have cars that drive themselves. We never thought of that. We have innovation. These kids, they have been playing Zoom and Google — playing games and stuff. They — they`re very creative. They have learned from us, and they have to feel that they have a future.
REID: Yes.
GRIER: That`s a dystopia when you don`t have hope.
REID: Yes.
GRIER: You`re going to have depression. You`re going to have an entire community of tribal dysphoria, just — discourse.
REID: Yes.
GRIER: So, we really need to sit with them and say, we can do this. Come to the table.
REID: Yes.
GRIER: We have to.
If we don`t have — we can — we drink water. We don`t drink oil.
REID: Yes. Amen.
GRIER: We flush with water. We don`t flush with oil.
We have to stay grounded, where we come from and where we are going…
REID: Yes.
GRIER: … or we can`t move forward.
REID: Well, Pam Grier, thank you for being here and surprising the wonderful Val Demings. We appreciate you both.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Congresswoman Val Demings, congratulations. Best of luck in your race.
Thank you both for being here.
OK, up next on THE REIDOUT: new reporting on how Trump`s own White House counsel apparently agreed that Trump really ought to return those classified documents, and yet he did not.
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:04]
REID: We`re learning more tonight about the efforts from the National Archives to retrieve classified documents from Donald Trump after he left the White House, including that Trump`s former White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, agreed at the time that the documents needed to be returned.
“The Washington Post” is reporting on an e-mail that the National Archives sent to Trump`s lawyers in May of last year, where the agency`s chief counsel wrote the following: “It is also our understanding that roughly two dozen boxes of original presidential records were kept in the residence of the White House over the course of President Trump`s last year in office and have not been transferred to NARA, despite a determination by Pat Cipollone in the final days of the administration that they need to be.”
Cipollone had been designated by Trump as one of his representatives to the Archives. It was not only — it was not the only attempt by the agency`s chief counsel to try to get those documents back.
“The Post” adds that: “Throughout the fall of 2021, National Archives attorney Gary Stern continued to urge multiple Trump advisers to help the Archives get the records back, according to people familiar with the conversations. Trump Only decided to give some of the documents back after Stern told Trump officials that the Archives would soon have to notify Congress. And Stern told Trump advisers that he did not want to escalate and notify Congress,” these people said. `We just want everything back` was his message, according to one Trump adviser.”
Joining me now is Charles Coleman Jr., civil rights attorney and former prosecutor and MSNBC legal analyst, and Clint Watts, MSNBC national security analyst and former consultant with the FBI Counterterrorism Division.
And, Clint, I do want to start with you, because it is absolutely stunning. Everything about this report today shocked me anew, the fact that Trump was keeping vital presidential records and things with national security classifications in the residence of the White House, and that then he transported them from the residence of the White House to his house in Florida, and kept them for 18 months, even as Pat Cipollone was getting urgent e-mails, saying, we need these things back.
I am still stunned again. Your thoughts?
CLINT WATTS, MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, we always say you got to keep positive control of items that are sensitive in nature, especially when you`re in government.
Those are always, always stored under lock and seal with close supervision. Anything that would move out of a SCIF — that`s a sensitive, compartmentalized information facility — anything and moves out of a SCIF — that would be top secret SCI information — is tracked. You would carry it in locked bags. You would have a courier system. You would have a chain of custody.
That these were floating into the residence, I think, is even more problematic, because who knows who was in the residence. We have seen over the last few years we don`t really know who was there or who was visiting, and who might walk off with things or see things that should not have seen them.
We also know over the last six years a lot of people in the administration could not get security clearances or were not able to get security clearances. Add to that those — all that information was taken down to Mar-a-Lago. It`s particularly problematic.
What I find remarkable is, the National Archives knew that things were missing, and they seemed to have had a pretty detailed understanding of what was missing repeatedly. This kind of went on for a year-and-a-half, where they kept saying, hey, we know you got documents. Give them back, and said, OK, we will give them to you.
They would give some, but they still keep retaining it. I think that leads to the big question, which is, why, in the end, did a search warrant have to turn up those last remaining documents?
Clearly, somebody knew what those documents were and did not want to give them up. I`m just curious what was so important that they needed to keep them in an unsecure location down in Florida.
REID: See, right?
And, Charles Coleman, this is the thing that`s — that really bugs me about the story. “The Washington Post” piece identifies specifically the Kim Jong-un letter and a letter that President Obama had written to Donald Trump as things that he had in his residence. Well, that`s one thing, right?
[19:25:00]
But the things that are marked highly secret, highly sensitive, it also says that Donald Trump had a habit when he was president of having aides just bring him documents, which, as Clint just said, should have been in a SCIF, in a controlled environment, just bring them to the residence, so he could review them whenever he felt like it.
So the fact that these things were basically not secure even when he was president is a problem for me. And then the fact that it took 18 months for there to be a search warrant, they let him linger with these national security documents that they knew were sensitive. Some of them could have been related to our nuclear materials.
How in the world was he allowed to keep those things for 18 months? Why wasn`t that search warrant served 18 months ago?
CHARLES COLEMAN JR., MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Joy, I think you have asked the million-dollar question.
And I think if there`s any criticism that could go to the government in this instance, it`s that it perhaps waited too long to really get tough with Donald Trump and go in and get those documents.
I think that being a former president gave him a certain benefit of the doubt, a certain cachet, where you did not necessarily want to go to court and get a search warrant, because, as we have now seen, since they have been forced to do that, this is uncharted water and unprecedented history that we are witnessing.
And so I can understand some delay. But the delay to the extent that they did, particularly when they knew the level of sensitivity around the documents that were missing, was — is almost inexcusable.
But what I will say is this. There are two positives that can be taken from today`s report. And they are, number one, they box Donald Trump in, inasmuch as they take away two of his biggest defenses that he likes to rely on, number one, ignorance, i.e., I didn`t know that this was something that I was doing, or intent…
REID: Yes.
COLEMAN: … meaning I thought that this wasn`t necessarily a bad thing.
He cannot say that around this narrative, because it has come out that not only he had been aware, but Pat Cipollone and other people in his camp had been told that he needed to return these things. So I see that as a positive.
The other sort of positive, very quickly, is that it also disrupts this current narrative that they tried to basically paint in the court of public opinion: Oh, we — they caught us by surprise. They basically showed up and ransacked Mar-a-Lago…
REID: Right.
COLEMAN: … to come in and take these documents.
No, you have known about this for a long time. And you had ample opportunity to arrange a peaceful transfer of these documents back to their rightful owners, and you chose not to do it.
REID: Yes.
COLEMAN: So I think that this disrupts that that narrative entirely.
REID: And — right, exactly.
Let me just read a couple more things from this — for those of you who didn`t read the story today.
“People familiar with the episode said that Trump himself oversaw the process of packing the 15 boxes that were given back to the National Archives in January, and did so with great secrecy, declining to show some items even to his top aides.”
One more note. One more thing: “In Trump`s inner circle, concern has been rising since June that the former president has created legal jeopardy for himself, according to multiple people in his orbit.”
Clint, the fact that Trump was allowed to review the things that were going back, the fact that he had custody of them so long, and still was allowed to be a part of the process of looking at what was sent back, to me, seems completely irregular, completely destructive to our national security. Does that seem that way to you?
WATTS: It does.
And it also undermines another argument, which is the need for a filter team. It sounds like President Trump was already filtering the documents. Why wouldn`t he pick out documents that were unique to him? That doesn`t make any sense either.
So, big picture, I think what I`m concerned about most, Joy, is, these were in unsecure environments, and everyone has a cell phone in the modern era.
REID: That`s right.
WATTS: So just imagine all of this period with these classified documents, sensitive documents.
We really have no way of knowing, at least at this point, who has those documents and where they have gone. I`m not saying that pictures were taken and things were transferred. But, wow, this is something that just would never happen when you`re having it in the controlled environment, the way it`s supposed to be taken care of.
So, when you look at it now, President Trump is directly involved in it. He had lots of knowledge in each step of this. His lawyers were aware and seemed to be aware of the jeopardy he was in.
And then it really brings up that last point, which is, what is the source of what was remaining? It sounds like there definitely was an informant and there were people that were concerned around those documents down there.
REID: Yes. And that leads you to wonder, well, what is in those documents?
And, by the way, you said the exact thing I was thinking, pictures taken, copies made. We don`t know. He had 18 months to make copies if he wanted to. That is terrifying. And it should scare every American.
Charles Coleman, Clint Watts, thank you both very much.
Still ahead: a game-changer for the Biden administration with a big announcement today on student loan debt relief.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:34:08]
REID: Fifty-one years ago, in 1971, the 26th Amendment was ratified.
It lowered the voting age of U.S. citizens from 21 to 18. Now, this dramatic change, which enfranchised nearly 11 million young Americans, was the result of a decades-long campaign dating back to World War II, when the slogan “Old enough to fight, old enough to vote” was born.
The phrase was later adopted by student activists during the Vietnam War. You see, you could fight for your country, and you could die for your country, but you couldn`t vote for or against the politicians who would send you to war. It didn`t make sense, something President Dwight D. Eisenhower, a five-star general and the supreme allied commander in Europe during the Second World War, raised in his 1954 State of the Union address.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For years, our citizens between the ages of 18 and 21 have, in time of peril, been summoned to fight for America. They should participate in the political process that produces this fateful summons.
[19:35:14]
I urge the Congress to propose to the states a constitutional amendment permitting citizens to vote when they reach the age of 18.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The movement to lower the voting age began to gain traction.
And those efforts paid off when, in 1971, the 26th Amendment was ratified in 100 days, faster than any other amendment. It was President Nixon, Eisenhower`s vice president at the time that 1954 address, who got to host the signing ceremony at the White House, taking the unprecedented step of inviting three 18-year-olds to sign the new amendment as well.
There you have it, historical footage that proves that there was a time when Republicans wanted more Americans to vote. President Nixon`s campaign even directly targeted these new young voters to support his reelection, which served him well, when Republicans would win 52 percent of the youth vote in the 1972 presidential election.
You could say young people played a role in Nixon winning by a landslide, which makes the cheating that he did in the Watergate scandal all the more ironic and unnecessary.
But I tell you all of this to give you a statistic that is relevant to today, namely this. Back in 1972, when those same young people were entering college, the average cost for enrollment was about $1,500 for a public college and about $3,000 for a private one.
Now, of course, there`s a wide range of college costs, but today`s tuition and fees are nowhere near that. Try a whopping $21,000 to $48,000 per year, on average. Talk about inflation, which is why once again young voters are thrust into the center of a searing debate, with President Biden announcing his student loan forgiveness plan just months before another election.
Now, you can say it was a promises kept. But not everyone agrees that it`s a great idea. The student loan debate and what it`s really about is next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:41:38]
REID: Today, President Biden took steps toward checking off a major campaign promise to America`s youngest voters, who voted for him overwhelmingly in 2020, announcing that the administration will cancel up to $10,000 in federal student loan debt, and up to $20,000 for those who went to college using Pell Grants, all for people earning less than $125,000 a year.
The administration also extended the pause on student loan repayments until January. According to the Department of Education, 45 million people have federal student loans. And more than half of them, half of them, owe less than $20,000.
A recent poll asked voters 18 to 34 what they thought about debt cancellation, and 71 percent said they support wide-scale loan cancellation. That includes 56 percent of Republicans and 66 percent of independents.
Congressional Republicans, who were more than happy to sign off on a $1.9 trillion tax cut for corporations, well, they were not amused. And like most things these days, legal challenges are expected.
But for a lot of the youngs, today was a good day.
Joining me now, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, a member of the House Financial Services Committee.
And, Congresswoman, just if you isolate just black families alone — this is cut two for my producers — black families with loan debt, 30 percent of them. White families with loan debt, if you just isolate them, 20 percent do. Hispanic families with loan debt, 14 percent have this loan debt. It is actually a big deal, particularly for families of color.
Do you think that this winds up redounding to the political benefit of Democrats in the fall? And do you think that`s why Biden did it?
REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): Democrats win when we deliver and when people can feel the transformative impact, the meaningful impact, the day-to-day impact of our policies and our advocacy on their behalf.
And this is transformative. This is an unprecedented step to alleviate the burden that people are feeling, to the tune of a $2 trillion crisis. And while I know we have been very focused in your most recent clip there, Joy, about the benefit to young people, this is affecting people from every, every walk of life, and the fact that 23 million people will have their debt reduced in half, 20 million people will have their debt canceled outright.
One in four black borrowers, their debt will be gone. So this is transformative. They will feel the impact of this. And this is sound policy, and that it is an economic justice issue and a racial justice issue and a gender justice issue, in that two-thirds of this debt is borne by women.
And it is good politics. It`s good policy and good politics.
REID: So, now we have to get to the counterpoint, because I want you to — I want you to hear some of the — what people are saying on the other side.
Now, we know that this was a big policy of Bernie Sanders — of Bernie Sanders. And it was why a lot of young people liked him. And it was something that President Biden adopted.
Nina Turner, who was a big supporter of Bernie Sanders, she tweeted: “More should be done. Why stop at $10,000? Why stop at $20,000? Cancel all student debt.”
What do you say to people who say it`s not enough?
PRESSLEY: Joy, I have to just acknowledge where we started.
When the issue of student debt cancellation was introduced into the national discourse, people really sought to marginalize the issue. And many thought that student debt cancellation was something that would be regressive in impact.
There was a harmful and false narrative that it would only benefit white graduate students who went to prestigious or affluent institutions. And, of course, that is not true.
[19:45:06]
This is about educators who have sleepless nights because they can`t meet the monthly minimums and pay for childcare, who took on this debt because they want to educate our babies. This is about 76-year-olds in my district, Joy, on fixed incomes still paying student loans who fear that they`re going to die still paying on these loans.
At this point, they owe more than they took out; 85 percent of students have no — black students have no choice but to take out loans, five times more likely to default.
I was one of those students. That is not abstract for me. I struggled to pay off my loans. And I have. And I want better for the next generation.
Joy, we know we have to address the root causes when it comes to affordability of higher education. We have got to make that investment in the public good that it is. We need to invest in tuition-free community college. We need to address — invest in HBCUs. And we need to expand Pell Grants.
But this is impactful. This is a bold step in the right direction. It is transformative, and it will be — it will be felt.
REID: And I have very little time left, but there is the other argument too.
I mean, Rick Scott, who is worth $259 million and did tweet this from a yacht off the coast of Italy, but also “The Washington Post,” who said, the loan forgiveness decision, they thought it was bad. “Widely canceling student debt is regressive. It takes money from the broader tax base mostly made up of workers who did not go to college to subsidize education debt for people with valuable degrees.”
What do you say to people who say that?
PRESSLEY: Wow, they are really disconnected from the lived experiences and hardship of everyday people.
There`s a reason why we were able to get organized labor behind this, from AFL-CIO, to AFT, to NEA, civil rights groups like the NAACP, and many other groups that have worked with us on this, because this is a burdensome issue.
This is no handout. Our colleagues across the aisle don`t know what a hand up looks like. That`s why they didn`t want a child tax credit. That`s why they didn`t want to give lifesaving health care to veterans. That`s why they didn`t want to give stimulus checks to people in the midst of a pandemic or make sure they remain safely housed.
Democrats are connected to the pain that everyday people are experiencing. And we`re doing something about it, which is why we passed the Inflation Reduction Act, and which is why today…
REID: Yes.
PRESSLEY: … this unprecedented step by President Biden, heeding our calls.
Joy, this has been two years…
REID: Yes.
PRESSLEY: … of blood, sweat and tears. And you will not break my soul.
REID: Well, there — and quoting Beyonce too while she`s doing it.
The great Ayanna Pressley.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, thank you very much.
Appreciate that.
All right, let`s bring in, for some counterpoint, former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo, who is now an MSNBC political analyst.
You heard what the congresswoman had to say. What would be your answer?
CARLOS CURBELO, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Joy, good evening.
I certainly understand that perspective. For me, the biggest issue with this decision is that it`s going to encourage more young people to get into this system where they are paying colleges and universities a lot more than the product that they`re getting back.
I mean, this is the fundamental problem here, right, that colleges and universities are charging absurd amounts for these degrees that really aren`t worth what they`re charging, and the government, all of us, taxpayers, are part of this scheme.
And now this is going to create the expectation for a lot of young people who have to decide now, how much should I take out in student loans, well, maybe this is all going to be forgiven in the future, or maybe a portion of it will be forgiven.
So we`re really sucking more people into a system that has failed young people and students for quite a few decades now.
REID: I…
CURBELO: That`s, to me, the biggest problem.
REID: I don`t think I understand your argument, because if what you`re saying is that college is very unaffordable, based on what you`re able to get back in income afterwards, then how can you argue that it`s not a good idea to relieve the debt that`s been built up?
Because it also sounds like you`re arguing more young people shouldn`t go to college, which also doesn`t seem like a pretty strong argument, a very strong argument.
CURBELO: But let me ask you, Joy, where is the accountability here?
If the colleges and universities are overcharging, why aren`t they refunding these students this money? Why do they get to keep the money? Why do American taxpayers have to subsidize this broken system?
And that`s the problem with this decision that we`re just encouraging. We`re further encouraging this system, because now we`re going to create an expectation that, hey, it doesn`t matter how much you take out in loans and pay X or Y college or university, because, in the future, we`re just going to forgive $10,000 or $15,000 or $20,000.
Don`t you see the moral hazard there? We`re feeding a system. And, by the way, the people who get paid at these colleges and universities, they make a good amount of money. They have great pension systems.
I mean, why aren`t they giving some of this money back? Why are we all…
REID: I taught — I taught at a couple colleges. I can tell you, college professors are not — and my mother was a college professor. They ain`t getting rich doing that.
But let me ask you this question. Did you feel the same way about the PPP system? Because, under the former President Donald Trump, billions, trillions of dollars was given away to big corporations, to the airline industry.
[19:50:04]
There was also a huge giveaway to farmers to subsidize them because the president was concerned about losing the rural vote. We`re talking about giving away billions and billions and billions of dollars to big corporations, to big farms, big agriculture. Did you oppose that?
CURBELO: Yes, that program was deeply flawed.
And, by the way, the fact that a lot of wealthy families, a lot of retirees who really didn`t need it — my parents, for example, they`re not wealthy, but they`re OK. I mean, they have Social Security. They have — my dad has a pension. He got checks from the government during COVID. They didn`t need it, of course.
REID: But didn`t he need — didn`t — OK.
CURBELO: All these programs, Joy, they create more inflation.
And, by the way, for Democrats, who are on a little bit of a win streak here and building some momentum, now they take this — they make this decision that is going to create more inflation, more demand for goods, because it`s basically an injection…
REID: Well, they`re — neither of us are economists, and there are sort of people on both sides of that.
But I do have to ask the question, because you are from Florida. And I live in Florida. So I got to ask you a Florida question.
I need to play for you the current governor, on a little bit of a different turn here. Here`s the current governor of your state.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I`m just sick of seeing him. I know he says he`s going to retire. Someone needs to grab that little elf and chuck him across the Potomac.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Is that appropriate?
CURBELO: I don`t think so, Joy.
And, I mean, that`s the culture that Donald Trump has promoted inside the Republican Party and, to some degree, in this country. And that`s regrettable. That kind of rhetoric, I know why the governor is doing it. He wants to signal to the Trump face that he`s with them and that he`s one of them.
But I just…
REID: Yes.
CURBELO: That`s not my style, never has been. I don`t think it`s appropriate.
REID: Carlos Curbelo, I love that we can end on a note of agreement.
Thank you very much. I appreciate you. Always appreciate you. Please come back.
All right, thank you very much, Carlos Curbelo.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:00]
REID: Exactly three months after a gunman murdered 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, the Texas school board is meeting right now to decide whether to fire the school`s police chief, Pete Arredondo.
Arredondo, you may remember, was leading the charge that day as hundreds of heavily armed officers rushed to the scene in a matter of minutes, but waited for more than an hour before entering the fourth grade classroom where the shooter was, while children inside repeatedly, repeatedly called 911, begging for help.
Just moments ago, members of the community gave emotional public remarks before the board went behind closed doors to make their decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our babies are dead. Our teachers are dead. Our parents are dead.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The least you all can do is show us the respect to do this in the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys don`t care squat about these families.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t care squat about these families.
If it was one of your children, heads would be rolling right now. But because it`s not, you don`t care!
UNIDENTIFIED STUDENT: I have messages for Pete Arredondo and all the law enforcement that were there that day.
Turn in your badge and step down. You don`t deserve to wear one!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Joining me now from Uvalde is NBC News correspondent Priscilla Thompson.
Oh, that is heartbreaking.
Priscilla, what are you hearing from parents? I know that they`re meeting behind closed doors right now, but what are parents telling you?
PRISCILLA THOMPSON, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Joy, they have been meeting behind closed doors for over an hour here.
And we actually just heard one community member get on the microphone while the board members were not in there and say: They need to quit wasting our time. Come out and tell us what the decision is going to be, so that we can all go home.
And so the frustration and the tension has been growing over this past hour. You played that sound from when the public comment began. Around five people were allowed to speak during that public comment, each for about a minute. And it was very emotional. There was a lot of anger, of course, continuing to call for the chief to be fired, and also going a step further and saying that this should not be happening behind closed doors; it should be done publicly.
And before they went into that closed-door session, the board said that they had received this letter from Pete Arredondo`s attorney, and they needed to review that with their attorneys.
And I want to talk about this. It is a 17-page statement that was released. And I want to quote part of it, saying: “Chief Arredondo will not participate in his own illegal and unconstitutional public lynching.”
His attorney is saying that this is a violation of his constitutional right to due process. And they are clearly not happy about the way this is going at all, going so far as to say that Pete Arredondo did everything he could in this situation, anything that a reasonable officer would, and saying that more lives may have been lost had they engaged the shooter more and possibly led to a firefight in the hallway, with bullets going through other classrooms.
So, so much being said in the 17-page statement, though, most notably calling for the police chief to be reinstated with back pay and benefits, something that none of the families that we have spoken to or heard from tonight would like to see happen at all. They want his badge turned in immediately.
School here is expected to start in less than two weeks. And parents are saying they are not going to send their students back here, especially if Chief Arredondo remains in this position of power. So, still a lot of anger, and now even more uncertainty.
Just to sort of give you some context, the board actually was scheduled to meet about firing the chief last month. And that was postponed because Arredondo`s attorney was alleging that this was a violation of his constitutional rights.
And now we`re hearing, with this new letter, that there is the potential that they could delay this decision once again, something that certainly would not bode well for all of the people who turned out today to express their concerns — Joy.
REID: Wow. Wow. Priscilla Thompson, that is excellent reporting. Thank you very much.
What a letter.
Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
And that is tonight`s REIDOUT. Wow, that is a lot.
“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts now.