Updated
Summary
The January 6 Committee meets with former Trump acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. Congressman Ro Khanna discusses President Biden racking up some legislative victories. Does the Republican embrace of Christian nationalism prove that they do not know their history? Donald Trump plays host to a Saudi golf tournament, as he insults 9/11 families in the process.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: And why the new evidence shows you have to look much broader. You have to look at this as a multifaceted coup conspiracy, if you want to address and prevent the next one.
I will explain more tomorrow. That does it for us tonight.
THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID is up next.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on THE REIDOUT:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: What do you plan to tell the committee today?
MICK MULVANEY, FORMER ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The truth. How about that for a start?
QUESTION: And were you — were you asked to come in, or did you voluntarily come in?
MULVANEY: I was asked to come in.
QUESTION: You were asked to come in.
Subpoena or no?
MULVANEY: I was honestly just asked to come in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The January 6 Committee meets with former Trump acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. And the DOJ will finally get its hands on the committee`s enormous collection of evidence.
Also tonight: It`s been a very good week for President Biden, with some major victories in Congress, while Republicans were doing the usual, like voting against veterans and American technology.
Plus: the Republican embrace of Christian nationalism proves they do not know their history. We have seen this story before, and it doesn`t end well.
And Trump is playing host to the big Saudi golf tournament this weekend, insulting 9/11 families in the process. Trump actually defended the Saudis, saying — quote — “Nobody`s gotten to the bottom of 9 — gotten to the bottom of 9/11.”
Seriously.
We begin tonight with a major development in the dueling January 6 investigations. The House Select Committee has agreed to a formal path to share evidence and witness transcripts with the Justice Department as it escalates its own investigation.
First reported by Politico, Chairman Bennie Thompson confirmed the agreement on a template for evidence and witness transcript sharing. It is a major step, as the extent of the Justice Department`s investigation has become increasingly public and more urgent, with “The Washington Post” first reporting that the DOJ is scrutinizing the former president`s actions in its criminal probe.
Chairman Thompson also said he anticipates a report on the National Guard response to the attack will be released in August, as the committee continued its work today.
Former acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney met with the panel for a virtual taped deposition. Meanwhile, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said he is in discussions with the committee about possible testimony. And, according to multiple reports, that committee has interviewed former Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.
Zeroing in on members of the former president`s Cabinet suggests that the committee could be looking for more information regarding possible discussions about invoking the 25th Amendment against the former president in the aftermath of the attack on the Capitol.
Pompeo and Mnuchin reportedly discussed that possibility at the time, as reported by Jonathan Karl of ABC News in his book “Betrayal.”
In the meantime, committee witness Cassidy Hutchinson is also reportedly cooperating with the Justice Department`s investigation. We now know that the department obtained phone records from her former boss Mark Meadows in April.
Back in Washington, today, following his COVID diagnosis, committee Chairman Bennie Thompson indicated that the Justice Department had expressed interest in evidence surrounding the fake pro-Trump electors scheme and welcome the scrutiny into the former president`s actions in particular.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): I think we have made a significant case that there are some problems there. And if that is the direction the Department of Justice has taken, then we are nation of laws. And they are the prosecutorial body to look at it.
But it`s up to them to tell us what they want.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
REID: Joining me now is Carol Leonnig, national investigative reporter for “The Washington Post” and an MSNBC contributor, and Glenn Kirschner, former federal prosecutor and an MSNBC legal analyst.
Thank you both for being here.
Carol, I`m going to start with you.
Pompeo and Mnuchin apparently coming in to talk primarily about whether or not the 25th Amendment was considered, something that Jonathan Karl has written in his book. In essence, what would be the significance potentially or is there significance, in your reporting, on the Justice Department side?
Because that`s state of mind kind of stuff. If two of his Cabinet members are more thought that he might be a 25th Amendment option, is that something that you could see also traversing the line into the Department of Justice investigation?
CAROL LEONNIG, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: It really is a great question, but I think what`s important there is whether or not Donald Trump knew they were considering that, right?
His state of mind is really about what he knew and what he wanted. A critical point that`s been raised over and over again was, did he know the election was not rigged? Well, there must have been two dozen people who told him it wasn`t, and they had all of the information at their disposal, most notably, Bill Barr.
[19:05:02]
In the case of the 25th Amendment, I find it really interesting, but I believe that the president had to know that that little plot was afoot in order for it to matter.
REID: And, Glenn, can you talk about the significance of there now being an agreement? Because that had been a point of contention, whether or not the committee would hand over its work product, in essence, to the Justice Department.
Now that we know that they`re that they are pursuing their own investigation. We`re now learning that the Justice Department actually back in April got phone records from key officials and aides in the Trump administration. That does include Mark Meadows. That seems significant.
GLENN KIRSCHNER, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: It is significant.
And it proves that the Department of Justice has been digging in, in ways and that times that none of us knew.
So, I think with respect to the transcripts, I have a feeling they will all go over to the Department of Justice from the J6 Committee, but it feels like this is the J6 Committee sort of flexing its co-equal branch of government muscle, saying, we have done a lot of work. We`re presenting our work product to the American people.
And when we have completed our tasks, we will be providing you with the transcripts that you can then use, because, Joy, they can take these transcripts, they can present them to the grand jury, and I suspect the federal prosecutors will want to build on them, will probably want to recall those witnesses and maybe flesh out some things on the evidentiary front that the J6 Committee didn`t.
So it`s all going to go over, but it looks like it`s going to go over at a time of the J6 Committee`s choosing.
REID: Carol, to come back to you for just a moment to stay on this whole issue, to go back to this issue of Trump`s state of mind, you wrote in a book you`re very much familiar with it, “I Alone Can Fix It” that there was a concern that Trump would actually try to use the military to attempt a military coup in order to stay in power.
I want to play General Mark Milley. And this is in one of the committee interviews that the January 6 Committee conducted. And this is regarding how Mark Meadows and Mike Pompeo perceived Donald Trump`s state of mind.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: There was a couple of calls where Meadows and/or Pompeo, but I know Meadows, how is the president doing?
Like, Pompeo might say, how`s the president doing? And Meadows would say, well, he`s in a really dark place. Like, here`s one, for example, on the 7th of January, so this is day after, right?
POTUS is very emotional and in a bad place. Meadows.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
REID: And we know that Cassidy Hutchinson has testified about conversations among — among Cabinet members. We saw in that documentary there was the — Mike Pence was presented with this idea himself.
How much in your reporting do we know about how serious Trump might have been about attempting to use the military? We know Mark Milley would have said, absolutely not.
LEONNIG: That`s right.
And Dr. Mark Milley would have said, absolutely not. But he also was on tenterhooks prepared for the possibility that Donald Trump would try such a move, a banana republic junta kind of move. That was a worry of his.
And as we write in our book, what Phil Rucker and I wrote in that book about the catastrophic year 2020, Milley was prepared for this Reichstag moment.
He believed that Donald Trump was whipping up a furor, whipping up panic and tension among his supporters, calling them to Washington, “Will be wild,” on January 6, and was trying to create this anger about a stolen election, your votes have been stolen, completely false, but all toward the end of supporting Donald Trump`s ability to create chaos, create violence, ultimately, and, consequently, all in the furtherance of a scheme to overturn the rightful votes of Americans.
REID: And…
LEONNIG: Milley and others — forgive me, but one thing that`s chilling to me is, Milley and several of his Joint Chiefs met to plan what would they do if Donald Trump gave them orders to use the military for nefarious purposes, either to create panic and chaos or to try to intervene in the certification of the election.
And they all agree that, one by one, they would essentially throw their bodies over in front of this scheme. They would resign. And then others agreed that they would not agree to take their place. So, in essence, you wouldn`t have a military anymore.
The same thing happened at the Department of Justice. Rich Donoghue and Jeffrey Rosen warned the president, if you do this, if you try to make us claim the election is rigged, you`re going to have a mass resignation at the Department of Justice.
[19:10:03]
REID: And can I ask you, Carol, was there concern? Because there were members of the Oath Keepers who are military. There were people who were part of that mob chanting “Hang Mike Pence” and hunting Nancy Pelosi, et cetera, who had military backgrounds.
Was there any concern, per your reporting, among Milley and other members of the Cabinet that not all of the military would obey in order for Mark Milley to stand down?
LEONNIG: Well, I think that that is too speculative to — for me as a reporter to go into.
I will tell you that paramilitary quality of many of these individuals was a worry. And there were investigations in the aftermath of January 6 about some of the commentary that military members, Secret Service agents, and even some National Guard members made about January 2, and essentially — essentially cheering on some of those insurrectionists.
That was really worrisome about an enemy within. There have been a lot of conversations, really painful conversations at the Department of Homeland Security and DOD about, let`s talk about people inside our government who believe that the election was rigged and that Donald Trump should still be president and root for that.
REID: Yes, that has the makings of a military coup.
And I say that because, to come to you for a moment, Glenn — and then I will have a final question for Carol on this, because I know she`s done a lot of reporting on it. The Secret Service is one entity that we`re now starting to worry had elements within it that were in favor of this MAGA coup.
The Secret Service director has now delayed his retirement. His name is James Murray. He`s delaying his retirement. He was supposed to retire actually this weekend. But he`s going to stay for the betterment of the agency and to see the agency through these investigations.
We have the Department — key Democrats wanting the Department of Homeland Security inspector general to be removed — his name is Joseph Cuffari — removed from the Secret Service probe. This is a Trump appointee knew earlier than has been reported that the agency deleted text messages from around the January 6 attack on the Capitol.
So what we have now are concerns. And if you`re at the Justice Department right now, who are you subpoenaing around that, if anyone?
KIRSCHNER: So, I actually think that the FBI has enough evidence and adequate predication to open a criminal probe into the deletion of these Secret Service texts.
It`s so disheartening to me, Joy, because when I was working cases with the Secret Service, when we had cell phones, and we needed to have forensic searches conducted, particularly if we thought that the owner of the cell phone had deleted information or evidence, we went to the United States Secret Service Forensic Sciences Division, because it`s the premier agency to recover deleted data from electronic devices.
So it really smells bad that they`re saying that they inadvertently deleted all of this information after they were asked to preserve it. But you know what? If they have done nothing wrong, they will be exonerated, and they should welcome a criminal probe into their conduct.
REID: And last question to on this, to come back to you, Carol. So, you have done so much reporting on the Secret Service.
Does Mr. Murray wanting to stay on, in your reporting, meet anything in terms of the concern that there may be at the upper echelons of the Secret Service that something nefarious went on with the deletion of those texts?
LEONNIG: Look, if the secretary and the president were worried about that, I think they would say, thank you, Mr. Murray, for your offer to stay, but no thanks.
The fact that he — the fact that he is staying, I`m going to give him the benefit of the doubt that there`s not a director in the wings at this moment or not a director available in the wings. We know that Biden has been considering new candidates, and there have been some names surfacing that I`m not prepared to share at the moment, but there have been some sort of top three folks discussed.
And if those folks aren`t ready, you can see how he, Mr. Murray, could be entreated to just be with us for a little longer. I would not link the Secret Service text issue necessarily to this. And I would not see a nefarious motive.
If the president and the secretary wanted to say goodbye, they could say goodbye.
REID: Carol Leonnig, we will be — when you do get some reporting on that, I hope you will come back, because this is a story I think that our audience is very interested in.
Thank you very much, Carol Leonnig and Glenn Kirschner. Always appreciate you. Thank you both.
And up next on THE REIDOUT: not a minute too soon. Democrats are scoring significant legislative victories this week on the environment and on health care and many, many other things. So how did they get it done?
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:27]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know it can sometimes seem like nothing gets done in Washington. I know it never crosses any of your minds. But the work of the government can be slow and frustrating, and sometimes even infuriating. Then the hard work of hours and days and months from people who refused to give up pays off.
History is made. Lives are changed. With this legislation, we`re facing up to some of our biggest problems and we`re taking a giant step forward as a nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: President Biden today touted a surprise his deal that has put Democrats on the brink of a major legislative victory.
[19:20:04]
And while it may not be as ambitious as some originally had hoped, the rather skillfully titled Inflation Reduction Act, or Build Back Better 2.0, would do a lot of good for the country. The bill would significantly reduce carbon emissions, invest billions in clean energy technologies, lower the cost of prescription drugs, and increased taxes on some of the richest corporations.
It is the cherry on top of what has been an overall good week for the Democratic Party, the president and the country. But it`s also inspiring Republicans to reach a new level of petty.
Almost immediately after the news of the deal dropped, House Republican leadership began urging members to vote against the CHIPS-Plus bill, a pro- America, pro-jobs piece of legislation that would bolster the Democrat — domestic chip manufacturing industry and fund scientific research, despite the fact that 17 Republicans had just voted for it in the Senate.
That bill passed the House earlier today with 187 Republicans voting against it, against the CHIPS bill, the jobs bill. It just goes to show you how they would literally do anything to stop President Biden from getting a win, even if it means tanking something that could help the American people.
Joining me now, Congressman Ro Khanna, Democrat from California, deputy whip of the House Progressive Caucus.
And, Congressman, it`s like, wait a minute. You`re against more jobs for Americans because Biden`s for more jobs? Please explain this House vote.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Joy, it`s hypocrisy.
I mean, this was the make it in America bill. This is about creating semiconductor manufacturing in places like Ohio. By the way, Governor DeWine, a Republican, ran ads saying that he was proud of Intel building these plants. This bill is going to allow Intel to do that across the country. And the Republicans vote against it, and then they complain that we`re losing to China?
This is the bill to help make sure we`re winning.
But, Joy, I`m so enthusiastic this week. This is why you come to Congress. You can see a new energy. I mean, what we are doing this week is historic, the investments in producing here, this president, Senator Schumer, Senator Manchin reaching a historic agreement, the biggest investment in climate, 10-fold what we have ever done, what any country has done.
This is a moment for Democrats or anyone who`s in public service, frankly, to be proud. I mean, this is government working.
REID: Let me ask you a question about that, because — and, first of all, number one, I mean, I think anything with Manchin on it, a lot of people just turn their head away and say that`s not — that cannot be real, but it appears to be real, that Manchin is now in favor of this bill that would — it would tax the super rich, not anyone else.
And, as you said, it would make a huge investment in climate and trying to save the planet, honestly. How on earth did that deal happen? Have you talked to Manchin about this? Are you sure he`s not going to pull the football away? And will Sinema pull the football away?
KHANNA: Well, Joy, I have been contrarian. I have been for the past year reaching out to Senator Manchin.
And I have reached out to him because I had a relationship. We had done a technology project in Beckley, West Virginia. And I always believed that Senator Manchin would support innovation investment in clean technology. He didn`t like the sticks, but he was always for the carrots.
And this bill, it`s not just the billions it`s going to invest in tax credits. It`s also going to unleash trillions of dollars of private sector investment in Silicon Valley. Instead of just putting the money in social media or cryptocurrency, now they`re going to put that money into clean technology.
It can be transformative. And I have always said that he was negotiating. And I am convinced that he is good for his word. Now, I don`t want to jinx anything. I just hope Senator Sinema votes yes.
REID: Yes.
KHANNA: All the other ducks are in a row.
REID: OK, well, we have to hope that she`s not going to try to be the one that ruins the whole day here, because that is actually a pretty important bill.
There are other bills that are now also getting Republicans to be against them. There`s something called the PACT Act that would enable additional health care coverage for more than three million veterans who were exposed to toxic burn pits and Vietnam era veterans exposed to Agent Orange.
Apparently, now Republicans are blocking that. They`re against it.
Here`s what Tim Ryan, who`s running for Senate in Ohio, had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): And it is time for us to quit the politics, stop trying to score political points. Stop putting party over country. Lay down our arms. My God, if we can`t agree on this. What in the hell are we going to agree on?
Rebuilding the manufacturing base, good-paying jobs, union construction, outcompeting China, national security? Come on, let`s do this. Let`s do it together.
But we have a small group of people who have hijacked the Republican Party, and the leadership in this House on the Republican side is more concerned with defeating Democrats than doing something that`s best for the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:04]
REID: On the same vote, here`s Jon Stewart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, COMEDIAN/ACTIVIST: America`s heroes who fought in our wars outside sweating their (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with oxygen, battling all kinds of ailments, while these (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sit in the air conditioning, walled off from any of it.
They don`t have to hear it. They don`t have to see it. They don`t have to understand that these are human beings. Do you get it yet?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Susan Collins over on the Senate side, Congressman, has explained that the reason Republicans are now apparently against something that is called the Respect For Marriage Act, affirming not only same-sex marriage, but also interracial marriage, that it is cool and legal, they`re against that because they`re mad that Manchin has done this deal on climate.
They`re mad about that. So they`re like, well, if we can`t have Manchin throw under — throw Democrats under the bus on climate, we`re going to mess up marriage.
How are Republicans explaining being against this bill that is to save the lives of veterans who have sacrificed for this country and are now injured from chemicals?
KHANNA: Joy, there`s no explanation.
But can we just say something on the record? Senator Schumer and Senator Manchin have run circles around Mitch McConnell. I know we`re fond of saying, why is our leadership not defeating McConnell? They have just done that. And that`s what`s upsetting McConnell. He`s lost and he`s lost badly.
They outmaneuvered him. And what they`re resorting to now is literally, literally hijacking health care for veterans. In my six years in Congress, I have never seen a veterans bill be partisan. The veterans bills even under Donald Trump, they passed, because we all agreed that people who risk their lives in wars should have the support of the American public.
And here they`re taking a veterans bill, veterans who suffered overseas, who had the most atrocious conditions, and giving them health care, and they`re not doing it. And it`s deeply personal to President Biden because of his son.
REID: Yes.
KHANNA: I mean, he lost someone in the war.
So it is atrocious what they`re doing.
REID: I just want to remind our audience, just to summarize — and I have to give Schumer credit on this. He has now put forward bills called the CHIPS-Plus bill, which is for making America more competitive against China. Republicans are against it.
Respect for Marriage Act. I mean, you couldn`t have a better name. Republicans are against. And this bill that would actually give money, more VA benefits to veterans who were injured in wars, Republicans are against it. I think that`s fairly clear.
Congressman Ro Khanna, whew. Thank you very much.
Well done, Democrats.
Still ahead: More and more MAGA Republicans, lord have mercy, are embracing Christian nationalism as their new form of patriotism. But do they really understand what that means?
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:47]
REID: The Republican Party of white grievance politics is all about saying the quiet part out loud.
The latest example is their call to embrace Christian nationalism full stop. This comes from Trump himself, who said in a recent speech — quote – – “Americans, kneel to God and God alone.” Does that include you, man?
Then you have Doug Mastriano, the Republican nominee for governor of Pennsylvania, who has connections to the far right social media platform Gab. Gab`s founder is an antisemite who has embraced the Christian nationalist movement.
Lauren Boebert, the gun fetishist whose restaurant Shooters recently closed after the building owner declined to renew her lease for some reason, has said the church is supposed to direct the government, along with the other elected troll, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who had this to say last weekend:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): We need to be the party of nationalism. And I`m a Christian. I say it probably.
We should be Christian nationalists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: This public embrace of religious fervor in the American right isn`t the greatest look, something my colleague and friend Rachel Maddow pointed out this week when discussing the racist antisemitic roots of Christian nationalism, as advocated by the late American politician Gerald L.K. Smith.
Well, Marge wasn`t pleased and took to Twitter to say that: “Rachel Maddow was smearing me with lies about my faith and tried to connect me to someone I have never heard of or know anything about,” which of course, only proves Rachel`s point.
These Republicans don`t seem to know anything about this historically racist ideology that they`re trying to usher into mainstream politics. Or, then again, maybe they do, and this is their way of appealing to a racist base.
Either way, it`s bad, because let`s be clear. By Christian nationalism, they mean white Christian nationalism, a platform that merges Christian and European ethnic identities in a way that distorts both Christian faith and our democratic ideals.
Christian nationalists believe the United States was established as an explicitly white Christian nation, and any threat to their agenda must be stamped out, even if that means violence. We saw Christian nationalism flourish in the form of the Klan. It also played a significant and explicit role in the formation and justification of apartheid in South Africa.
[19:35:02]
Its agenda is currently boosted by folks like Hungarian strongman Viktor Orban, whose obsession is turning his country into a white Christian ethno- state. It is a vision, a fantasy held by MAGA fanboys and insurrectionists vowing to take back America.
It was arguably one of the most visible movements animating the January 6 mob. Look no further than the slogans and messaging that we saw on that terrible day. It`s a scene, if in black and white, could be mistaken for a KKK rally from a previous era.
That is according to Robert Jones, an expert on white supremacy in American Christianity. And he joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:19]
REID: The right`s embrace of evangelical Christianity is something they would like you to believe goes back to the founding of this country.
The truth is, it only goes back a few decades. In fact, the rise of evangelical voters didn`t even begin with a Republican, but with Democratic President Jimmy Carter, who, in his 1976 presidential bid, put his faith in the national spotlight when he identified himself as a born-again Christian.
The courtship between the Republican Party and the evangelical community only began under Ronald Reagan, and continued under George — and continued under George Herbert Walker Bush, who pandered to the evangelical community and people like televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker to get their endorsement.
Fast-forward to today, and you have a Republican Party so entrenched with the Christian far right that the party is now nominating people like Pennsylvania gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano, who embraces Christian nationalism, the idea that God intended America to be a Christian nation, with a strong implication that what they mean by that is a white Christian nation.
Joining me now is Michael Steele, former chairman of the RNC, and host of “The Michael Steele Podcast,” and Robert Jones, CEO of the Public Religion Research Institute and author of “White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity.”
And, Robert, I`m going to read you to you. And you wrote this about the curious history of Judeo-Christian — what the curious history of Judeo- Christian can teach us about defeating white Christian nationalism today.
According to a 2021 PRRI survey, while only 30 percent of Americans agree that God intended America to be a new promised land, where European Christians could create a society that could be an example to the rest of the world, that number rises to dangerous levels among groups comprising the conservative base in U.S. politics, including majorities of Republicans, 53 percent, and white evangelical Protestants, 52 percent.
And white Americans who embrace this white Christian nationalist version of history are more than four times as likely as those who disagree to believe that true American patriots may have to resort to violence to save the country.
So how do we get out of it, if the Republican Party is — seems to be completely overtaken by this?
ROBERT JONES, CEO, PUBLIC RELIGION RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, the first thing I should say is that I think it`s very important that you include the words white Christian nationalism all together.
Those three interlocking pieces is really what the threat is before us. And I should say, like, as someone who studied this movement, as someone who grew up myself white and Christian in the Deep South as part of the evangelical world, I don`t think there`s a more serious threat to the future of our democracy than what we`re seeing right now with the rise of white Christian nationalism in the Republican Party.
As you said, those numbers — it`s easy to dismiss this as fringe when you hear people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and others kind of spouting off about it. But when you look at those numbers, it`s a little more than half of white evangelicals. It`s a little more than half of the Republican Party.
And it is this kind of combination of intense fear about demographic and cultural change, combined with a sense of divine entitlement, right, to their place at the top of the pyramid. And these are not the virtues of democracy or of a democratic citizenry. If these aren`t held in check, these really do contain the seeds of our potential demise.
REID: Well, and the reason that I specified and then my producers and I, when we put this together, specified white evangelicals is, I`m a black Christian. I grew up in the Methodist Church, then switched to the Baptist Church.
Michael, you, my friend, are a Christian. You are a black Christian and grew up in the Catholic faith.
MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
REID: Our experience with the way that Christianity intersects with politics is that the black church encouraged folks to vote and had vans that said, everybody, get out and register and vote, or the black church was very enmeshed with the civil rights movement. It was an organizing base for people who wanted to just fight for the right to vote.
There`s a strong tradition in the white liberal evangelical church of being warm toward immigrants, taking in immigrants. Like, that`s the — there is another tradition of Christianity that involves itself in politics.
But you, as a Republican, Michael, have got to have been alarmed watching this particular strain of white nationalist Christianity eat up the Republican Party that you love, or at least did.
STEELE: Well, yes, not just alarm — yes.
(LAUGHTER)
STEELE: Yes, I got that.
Not just alarmed, but like Robert, I`m really concerned about it and have expressed as much as often as I can. I mean, I understand the trick. I got the relationship, the political relationship that Reagan embraced in order to get the support of white Christian evangelicals in the South, because the party had to win — in order to win the presidency, it had to win the South.
[19:45:04]
The Democrats basically control the South at that time, right through much of his first term. So, this relationship, the first time the party says, all right, we`re going to embrace it and we will put in our platform a pro- life plank, up until — even immediately after Roe, in the `76 cycle, the party didn`t embrace that. The party didn`t say, we got to put this in our plank.
It wasn`t until they recognize the political power of the emerging moral majority that Ralph Reed and so many others had began to espouse as a political force, not just a biblical one, but a political one — we have gone beyond the pulpit now, Joy.
REID: Yes.
STEELE: We`re going — you talked about the black church saying, you all go vote, right? Remember to vote on Tuesday.
You saw now this movement saying, not only do we want you to vote, but we`re going to tell you how to vote.
REID: Yes.
STEELE: And that became a very interesting dynamic, which I saw play out in my time, both in local politics and national politics, to where we are now in this disturbing space that Robert writes about.
REID: And, I mean, look, we get to the point now where, even in the state of Maryland, the mild-mannered state of Maryland, the guy running for governor, this guy Cox, he`s a far right MAGA Republican. Maryland could go this direction, where it`s a tossup.
If Maryland goes to the Republicans this time, Maryland could be another state that has an election denier in it. Can you talk a little bit, though, Robert, about this internationalization of this?
Because Viktor Orban, now known for condemning race mixing in Europe, and saying, we have to stop all this race mixing, to the point where one of his advisers quit, it`s international. This movement is not just in the United States, right, Robert?
JONES: Yes, that`s correct.
And we`re seeing it imported via FOX News. Don`t forget that, just almost exactly a year ago, Tucker Carlson camped out in Orban`s backyard…
REID: He did.
JONES: … and broadcast nightly from Hungary, as a way of kind of propping up and piping this into the American conservative movement.
So we are seeing — it`s a two-way street. It`s Trumpism going to Europe and Hungary coming to the U.S., I think, as a way of bolstering this sense. Again, it`s an anti-immigrant sentiment. It has — we talked about this before. It has to do with the sense that white people are being replaced by immigrants. Again, that assumes a kind of privileged place in the country.
And it is this really ugly thing that I think many of us thought we had turned the page on, and particularly in American Christianity turned the page on. But it`s old. It`s old, and it`s in the DNA, and it`s back.
REID: And you should not be surprised then that Republicans now will not vote for something called the Sanctity of Marriage Act, which would defend not just same-sex marriage, but interracial marriage. They ain`t for it.
Michael Steele, you wonder why, and Robert Jones. Because Christian nationalism says, no, no, no.
Thank you.
And up next: Trump`s very generous, very controversial gift to the Saudis. I am sure they will find a way to pay him off — I mean, pay him back.
I will be right back.
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:52:44]
REID: Infamous golf cheater Donald Trump, sporting the au naturel no orange makeup look, teed off this morning and his New Jersey golf course, Bedminster, where he`s hosting a LIV Golf tournament funded by Saudi Arabia, the same kingdom whose de facto leader brutally murdered U.S. resident journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
During his presidency, Trump actually defended the Saudi crown prince, saying there was no proof that he was involved in Khashoggi`s death, despite the CIA`s conclusion that he ordered it. Trump later bragged about protecting him.
So it`s not remotely surprising that he`s more concerned with their image than their human rights violations, telling “The Wall Street Journal” that LIV Golf has been worth billions of dollars in publicity for Saudi Arabia.
It`s worth noting that the Trump Organization will also certainly be profiting from this, which may be why he also dismissed a question about Khashoggi, saying that he thought the issue — quote — “seems to have totally died down,” and why he`s brushed off the concerns of the families of 9/11 victims, who are protesting the club`s involvement with a country that`s been linked to the attacks, in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.
Here`s an ad from the 9/11 Justice group.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This golf tournament is taking place 50 miles from Ground Zero.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s disgusting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Worse than a slap in the face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re taking money from an evil regime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are 3,000 Americans that were killed on American soil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much money to turn your back on your own country?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two hundred million? Sure. I will forget about their atrocities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m never going to forget, never going to forgive the golfers for taking this blood money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: When asked about those protests today, Trump made this unbelievable claim:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, nobody`s gotten to the bottom of 9/11, unfortunately, and they should have, as to the maniacs that did that horrible thing to our city, to our country, to the world.
So, nobody`s really been there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Yes, well, the intelligence community once again would probably disagree with that statement, as would a guy named Donald Trump, who, in 2016, said multiple times that the Saudis were behind the 9/11 attacks.
I`m joined now by Peter Beinart, professor at the City University of New York and editor at large of Jewish Currents.
And, Peter, bin Laden`s father was a known builder. One wonders if he was still around and wanted to do a deal with Donald Trump, Donald Trump would probably say, sure, I don`t have a problem with that.
[19:55:00]
It is pretty remarkable to host a golf tourney with all sorts of top golfers. All agreed to get in. We will put up a list of them. I`m not a golf enthusiast, but, apparently, these are some big deal golfers.
All is forgiven, apparently. Saudi Arabia can do no wrong. How?
PETER BEINART, CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK: Right, because, ultimately, what we know about Donald Trump is that he thinks first, second, third and fourth about Donald Trump.
And although he likes to claim to be this super patriot, in fact, he`s never willing to put the interests of his country ahead of him, if that requires any sacrifice, if it means that he doesn`t — he doesn`t get a few more dollars, or, for instance, serving in the military.
For Donald Trump, patriotism only becomes an issue when it`s a way to denigrate and exclude others, right? So, if you remember, he was very vocal about opposing a Muslim community center near Ground Zero, right, a few years ago, because that was a way of showing that he was a real American, unlike those Muslims.
But when it comes to Saudi Arabia, which was actually involved in the 9/11 attack, because they`re going to write him a big check, then he`s not such a big patriot.
REID: And it`s funny that you say that, because I have talked to people who were very much involved with Donald Trump`s campaign who said the reason that they got excited about Donald Trump was his fervent opposition to that Muslim community center near Ground Zero.
And now, all of a sudden, the Saudis are his besties because they`re going to show him the money.
This is what Donald Trump said to “The Wall Street Journal” about the 9/11 families, who are still in pain, and this is 50 miles from Ground Zero where this tourney is taking place.
He said: “I don`t know much about the 9/11 loving families. I don`t know what is the relationship to this and their very strong feelings. And I can understand their feelings. I can`t really comment on that, because I don`t know exactly why they`re saying what they`re — why they`re saying who did what.”
That`s extraordinary, because Donald Trump used to lie and claim that he had friends who died on 9/11. He had none. Or that he had some special knowledge of the pain of 9/11. He did not.
What do you make of that statement? I — he doesn`t know much about these families.
BEINART: Right.
And he also — this puts to — the lie to this absurd notion that Donald Trump is somehow in touch with the pain of real, ordinary Americans, right, unlike those globalists like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
These are people whose relatives were killed by the very — by terrorists who had connections to the very foreign government that is now putting money in his pocket. And he doesn`t — he — if he doesn`t — if he wants to know more about what that experience was like for them, or why they know Saudi Arabia was complicit in this, he could ask them.
He could read the report that our own government put out about that, but he`s not willing to take the time, because, ultimately, that might mean less money for Donald Trump.
REID: And the — on the Khashoggi issue, a lot of Republicans tried to make a whole thing out of Biden fist-bumping with him or whatever he tried to do to avoid shaking hands, whatever, the optics of that, but there isn`t obedience to the Saudi leadership, no matter who they are, no matter what they do, even in the case of Khashoggi.
He lived in America. He was an American resident. There`s an obedience to Saudi Arabia that goes beyond just Donald Trump. Why? I mean, the U.S. is the biggest producer of oil on the planet. We are supposed to be getting off oil.
BEINART: Well, that`s the key point.
The whole point, one of the big payoffs of the fact that we were going to become energy self-sufficient, with all this new technology, was precisely we would not have to go on bended knee to these brutal autocratic states anymore.
But we keep on coming up with new justifications. We`re not dependent on Saudi Arabia for energy in the way we were now. But now it comes that, well, we have — they are dictators, but they have to be our dictators, rather than being on China and Russia`s side, which is exactly the logic the U.S. used throughout the Cold War to support one brutal dictatorship after another, because at least they needed to be on our side.
So we keep coming up with these justifications, even when we`re not actually dependent on these regimes.
REID: The — I know it`s all about the Benjamins, but what do you make of the idea that you have these top golfers who are willing to essentially just rub 9/11 families` nose in it for cash and play in this tournament?
BEINART: Look, I think it`s terrible.
But, I mean, when you have a president of the United States, like Donald Trump, who`s willing to host it at their — at this golf course, that creates, I think, a climate for everybody, right?
I mean, he`s supposed to be the representative of the nation. Hard to expect that others are going to be — are going to be that much better when that`s the message that he sends.
And just to my point, there`s a serious national security issue.
REID: Yes.
BEINART: Because Donald Trump may be president again.
And he will come into the presidency having been pre-bribed by the Saudis.
REID: Yes.
Oh, they bribed him with an orb. They gave him a glowing orb, and he was like, you`re my people.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Peter Beinart, thank you very much. Really appreciate you being here tonight.
BEINART: Thank you.
REID: Before we go, I do want to update you.
Thank you.
I want to update you on 19-year-old Olivia Julianna`s effort to raise abortion funds after she was the target of a revolting verbal attack by Matt Gaetz. Olivia joined me on THE REIDOUT last night. At that point, she had raised $330,000. Twenty-four hours later, she is up to $1.1 million.
Congratulations, Olivia. Keep fighting. And you`re welcome back to celebrate getting to that million. Truly amazing.
That is tonight`s REIDOUT.
“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts right now.