Updated
Summary
The January 6 Committee drops a new tape of some previously unseen video. The World Health Organization calls monkeypox a global health emergency. Vice President Kamala Harris urges Democrats to fight for abortion rights. Congressman John Lewis and the stirring graphic novels he inspired are examined.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: We have got updates from that. We talked about prison reform. Interesting conversation. I will say briefly, I met BEAT fans or BEAT viewers who said they came because they heard about it on the show. So that`s always great.
As always, you can connect with me directly @AriMelber.com. That`s the best way to find me online.
That does it for us. I will see you tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.
“THE REIDOUT” is coming up next. Jason Johnson is in for Joy.
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on THE REIDOUT:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: He also has crossed out: “I want to be very clear. You do not represent me. You do not represent our movement.”
Do you remember, do you know why he crossed that language out of the statement?
JARED KUSHNER, FORMER SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: The January 6 Committee drops a new tape of some previously unseen video, and it reveals what Trump could not bring himself to say after the terrorist attack on the Capitol.
Also tonight, the World Health Organization is now calling monkeypox a global health emergency. So, how worried should we be?
And Vice President Kamala Harris is in Indiana, urging Democrats to fight back, as Republican state legislators begin a special session to take away women`s reproductive rights.
Good evening, everyone. I`m Jason Johnson, in tonight for Joy Reid.
While we won`t be seeing the January 6 Select Committee again until the fall season in September, we did get a taste of what they have in store. And it`s another shocking revelation about how the former president was dogmatically opposed to criticizing his terrorist supporters, who just so happened to be ransacking the Capitol, beating police and threatening to assassinate his former vice president.
In the previously unseen video released today by committee member Elaine Luria, we see testimony from some of Trump`s closest aides and confidants about the day after the attack.
It`s here where we see that President Trump refused recommendations that he repudiate in the strongest terms those who laid siege to the Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HERSCHMANN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY: I told him we should give the statement on the 7th and obviously move forward on transition.
KUSHNER: I sat with her. I spoke to Miller about trying to put together some draft remarks for Jan. 7 that we`re going to president.
PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: In my view, he needed to express very clearly that the people who committed violent acts, went into the Capitol, did what they did should be prosecuted and should be arrested.
QUESTION: It looks like here that he crossed out that he was directing the Department of Justice to ensure all law breakers are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. “We must send a clear message not with mercy, but with justice. Legal consequences must be swift and firm.”
Do you know why he wanted that crossed out?
KUSHNER: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: The former president who relished the events of January 6 — remember, he was thrilled by this attack — was seemingly so opposed to criticism of the day and the day`s activities that his son-in-law had to enlist the help of Trump`s body man, John McEntee, to persuade the former president to actually address the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MCENTEE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESIDENTIAL PERSONNEL OFFICE DIRECTOR: He knew since I`m always with him that, hey, if he asks your opinion, try to nudge this along. This will help everything cool down.
So that`s what I did.
QUESTION: Nudge it along in what way? What does — what does that mean?
MCENTEE: To make sure he delivers this speech or whatever it was.
QUESTION: Was the implication that the president was in some ways reluctant to give that speech?
MCENTEE: Yes. Yes.
QUESTION: OK, and what do you base that on?
MCENTEE: The fact that somebody has to tell me to nudge it along.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Somebody had to tell him to stop terrorist.
Over the weekend, Vice Chair Liz Cheney appeared on FOX News, an audience that hasn`t seen much of the committee`s evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)`
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): This was a fundamental assault and an attack on our democracy. We had a president who sent a mob that he knew was armed to the Capitol to attack and invade while we were counting electoral votes, delayed the count of those votes.
And while the attack was under way, it is unquestionable that he did not tell them to go home for hours. And investigating that attack and what led to it and what we need to do legislatively to make sure it never happens again is our fundamental — our fundamental responsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I`m sure the audience was shocked.
While the committee is set to reveal new avenues of their investigation, they have yet to secure some key interviews. Also appearing on CNN, Representative Cheney said the committee was weighing a subpoena for Ginni Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, as Thomas has been a vocal proponent of overturning the election and had communicated with Trump`s former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and John Eastman, author of the now infamous and unconstitutional memo that was used as a predicate to overturn the election.
Ms. Thomas had originally told The Daily Caller that she was eager to speak with the committee to, you know, clear up misconceptions, but now her lawyer is sending a different message, demanding — quote — “better justification for her voluntary appearance.”
[19:05:10]
The committee is still negotiating with her lawyer. Meanwhile, the committee is striking out with President Trump`s former Secret Service detail. Earlier this month, Trump`s top Secret Service agents and political allies tried to undermine former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson after she relayed a story about how — an unhinged former president lashing out at agents because they wouldn`t let him join the insurrectionists on Capitol Hill.
Those two guys, Tony Ornato and Bobby Engel, have higher personal lawyers and have yet to cooperate with the committee regarding follow-up interviews. This is a lot.
Joining me now is Joyce Vance, professor at the University of Alabama School of Law and a former U.S. attorney, and Abdallah Fayyad, opinion writer for “The Boston Globe.”
Thank you all so much. I am a hand-rubbing meme tonight.
Joyce, I`m going to start with you.
I think one of the most important things that we`re hearing about right now is these two Secret Service agents who have lawyered up, OK? In the history of, I guess, investigations and Secret Service agents, how serious is that? How serious is it that Secret Service agents are afraid to testify to a committee that doesn`t really have enforcement power, but they nevertheless still feel the need to get lawyers?
JOYCE VANCE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: So I will pump the brakes on that just a little bit, Jason, to this extent.
A criminal investigation by the I.G. has been announced. It makes good sense for anyone who`s within the ambit of that investigation to have legal counsel representing them. What`s a little bit usual here, though, is this notion that they have hired private counsel. Typically, they might go to the agents association, which keeps lawyers on retainer and use some of those essentially in-house folks.
This certainly signaled a level of concern. And that`s what`s so shocking here, the notion that Secret Service agents, who are typically held in very high regard, who are very clear that they serve the presidency of the United States, not the current incumbent of that office, that they would be wrapped up, embroiled in a political scandal of any hue is really unprecedented in the agency`s history.
JOHNSON: And yet it doesn`t strike me as that shocking. I don`t see how an attempted coup could happen if you didn`t have some of the palace guard involved.
With that in mind, Abdallah, you have a great op-ed in “The Boston Globe,” where you`re talking about why and how Merrick Garland must hold Trump accountable and must put him on trial.
Just tell us a little bit about your sort of main point with the editorial board here. What are you guys really pushing for?
ABDALLAH FAYYAD, “THE BOSTON GLOBE”: Well, thanks for the question, Jason. And thanks for having me on.
This was a case that we laid out last year at first. We called to prosecute — we called for the prosecution of Donald Trump back in June of 2021. But after the January 6 Committee first aired its public hearings, we wanted to reiterate the call, because now it`s undeniable that Trump is clearly responsible for the events that ultimately transpired on January 6.
And there are many arguments, and reasonable ones, for why you might not want to do this. But, ultimately, we have to think about what messages we`re sending to future administrations if we don`t hold the Trump administration accountable for trying to overthrow the U.S. government.
I mean, Donald Trump tried to foment a coup in America, and he failed. But if he doesn`t fail — if he hasn`t face any consequences for his actions, well, that tells any future holder of the office that you can try to overthrow the government and, if you fail, you won`t face any consequences.
JOHNSON: And here`s the thing. If you talk to security experts, they haven`t failed, because unless you jail the people who tried to overthrow the government, they keep at it. They have not failed until they are jailed or punished or in some, shape, way, or form prevented from engaging in that activity again.
With that in mind, Joyce, I want to play you some sound. We`re not the only people here who have been critical of Merrick Garland and have made the argument that he needs to be doing something, that he needs to, bare minimum, instill some confidence in the public.
I`m going to play this sound, get your thoughts on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: We have not decided yet as a committee whether we`re going to make criminal referrals, but that`s absolutely something we`re looking at.
REP. ELAINE LURIA (D-VA): I sure as hell hope they have a criminal investigation at this point into Donald Trump.
Merrick Garland has already told us he`s listening. And I — if he`s watching today, I would tell him, he doesn`t need to wait on us, because I think he has plenty to keep moving forward.
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): I certainly hope they`re moving forward. I certainly think there`s evidence of crimes. And I think it goes all the way up to Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:00]
JOHNSON: Mueller said that he believed that the president could be prosecuted, that former President Donald Trump could be prosecuted.
You have members of the committee who say they hope Merrick Garland is going to do something. Look, I have long since given up on believing that Merrick Garland is operating on any sort of timeline that would actually comfort me or most people who are concerned in America.
But, Joyce, I am curious, do you think it matters that there`s now a constant drumbeat? Like, maybe three or four months ago, the we have got to wait for Merrick Garland crowd had some credibility, but now you have got people on the actual committee saying, dude, catch up. Catch up with us. Why are you not where we are?
Do you think that`s resonating, if not with Garland himself, then maybe other people working for him and with him in the Department of Justice?
VANCE: The problem with how DOJ operates, at least from my perspective, no longer being a DOJ employee, and being a member of the public, is that it`s just opaque.
You don`t really have any idea what`s going on behind the curtain. And I will just share with you, Jason, that I can recall cases where we had the public wondering what was going on, why the U.S. attorney`s office wasn`t taking steps to indict someone, when we were on one occasion just days away from handing down an indictment.
That`s the level of just complete opacity that DOJ is used to operating with. That`s not very comforting for any of us. But what we`re finally starting to see — and we don`t know the reasons — you know, because you and I have discussed, I had deep concerns during the first year that Merrick Garland was in office that we weren`t seeing the signs I would have expected to see if there was some sort of investigation going on into those most responsible for January 6.
We didn`t see, for instance, signs of people being brought in front of the grand jury. Well, today, we learned that, just last Friday, Marc Short, Mike Pence`s chief of staff, testified under a subpoena in the grand jury that DOJ is running in the District of Columbia. That`s a positive sign and a good step forward.
JOHNSON: And we hope, again, that this eventually leads to orange jumpsuits.
Speaking of orange, we have some sound. I want to play this to you, Abdallah. It`s the current president talking very harshly about the former present in a way that we don`t often hear. I want to get your thoughts on that on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On January 6, we relied on law enforcement to save our democracy. We saw what happened.
The Capitol Police, the D.C. Metropolitan Police, other law enforcement agencies were attacked and assaulted before our very eyes, speared, sprayed, stomped on, brutalized. And lives were lost. And for three hours, the defeated former president of the United States watched it all happening, as he sat in the comfort of the private dining room next to the Oval Office.
The police were heroes that day. Donald Trump lacked the courage to act. The brave women and men in blue all across this nation should never forget that. You can`t be pro-insurrection and pro-cop. You can`t be pro- insurrection and pro-democracy. You can`t be pro-insurrection and pro- American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Abdallah, pretty strong words from our president, who`s still sort of recovering.
Do you think this matters? And who do you think this message is to? Because if you`re a conservative police officer, they have already — they have discounted the people who are defending our nation. They called them storm troopers.
If you`re an insurrectionist, you`re still hiding or hoping Merrick Garland doesn`t get you. Who do you think this message was to by President Biden?
FAYYAD: Yes, I mean, that`s a great question. And it`s a great step by Joe Biden to actually start addressing Trump`s actions directly over what he did on January 6.
I think he might be signaling his frustration, maybe with the slow-moving pace of the Justice Department. But it`s important for him to stay away from intervening in that investigation, no matter what.
But I think ultimately, the audience is the American public. People ought to know just how reluctant Trump was to send help to Congress. And, I mean, earlier, at the top of this show, you were showing how Trump was reluctant to even call out the insurrectionists the day after it happened.
And I think that shows that he actually supported their actions. I mean, just watching those outtakes of the speech that he gave, I think it not only shows that he didn`t have any remorse, but it shows that he actually wanted the insurrection to succeed.
I mean, he couldn`t bring himself to say that the election was over the day after. You have to think about that. Five people died. The Capitol was ransacked. And lawmakers had their lives put at risk, including his own vice president`s. And he still didn`t want to admit defeat.
So, ultimately, people need to know that all of this points to a president that was really hoping for a coup to be successful in America.
[19:15:09]
JOHNSON: I can go on and on about this, because, to me, in a way, it`s — like, it`s very obvious that we always knew he wanted to do it. But I think there are still some corners of America that need to understand how dangerous it is that the president wanted this, the former president wanted this to continue.
Thank you so much, Joyce Vance and Abdallah Fayyad.
Up next on THE REIDOUT: Officials sound the alarm about monkeypox, but is it already too late to contain it?
THE REIDOUT continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:14]
JOHNSON: Monkeypox.
That`s right. Monkeypox is on the rise in the United States, with nearly 3,000 confirmed cases, including two children. The World Health Organization has declared monkeypox and international health public health emergency.
This is the same designation used in the past for COVID-19, Ebola, Zika, and polio. With nearly 16,000 reported cases worldwide and counting, health experts are cautioning against complacency. While new cases are concentrated primarily within the gay and bisexual communities, there`s no guarantee that it will not spread beyond those groups.
Meanwhile, the Biden administration is facing mounting pressure, with top ranking members of the House and Senate demanding answers on how it plans to handle the outbreak.
Joining me now is Dr. Peter Hotez, co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children`s Hospital and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.
Thank you so much, Doctor, for joining me this evening.
I`m just going to start off with this. I`m old enough to remember Ebola. Lots of people were afraid. But there weren`t that many cases in the United States. We have got 16,000 cases so far that we`re hearing about of monkeypox. How worried should we be? Should we be concerned about public bathrooms? Should we be wearing gloves again at the gas station? What is the level of alarm that people should have right now about monkeypox?
DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, Jason, it`s somewhere in between.
So, my concern is the trajectory of the numbers. So we`re — as you point out, we`re about 3,000 cases in the United States. It`s almost certainly, as it always is, and underreporting. So there may be several times more than that.
Also, in Europe, especially Portugal and Spain and the U.K., the numbers are going up. So it`s the trajectory of cases. That`s my first concern. And then the second concern is that while it`s right now mostly restricted to high-risk behaviors, certain populations, eventually, it`s — as we know, from other infectious diseases, it`s going to generalize.
And once it gets into the animal population in the U.S., it could potentially become a permanent fixture. So I think, right now, what we`re seeing is all hands on deck to contain this and prevent it from continuing to spread across Europe, across the United States through a coordinated program of vaccinations and antiviral treatments and diagnostics.
And it`s really going to be a race, whether we can scale this up fast enough to prevent this from getting out of hand.
JOHNSON: So, one of the things that I thought — and I was not originally having this thought — is that a lot of the hesitancy and the out-and-out resistance to mitigating measures for COVID were because of the fact that it wasn`t the Spanish Flu in 1919. People weren`t bleeding out of their eyes and dying in the middle of dinner, right?
But monkeypox leaves a visual effect, right? You can`t hide. You can`t still go to the grocery store and pretend that you don`t have monkeypox. Do you think that, because it is a disease that leaves a visual marker on your face, on your body, that that could help raise the alarm and lead to people taking it more seriously than they were COVID, at least initially?
HOTEZ: Yes, I think it`s two things, Jason.
It`s not only the visual effect of the rash, but also the fact that the Excruciating pain. “The New Yorker,” for instance, yesterday, ran a very disturbing, but really eloquent description of what it`s like to have those painful lesions in the perirectal area, in the mouth.
It`s an extremely excruciating disease. And, in some cases, it`s even required hospitalizations. The only silver lining is, there haven`t been deaths so far. So of the 15,000 to 20,000 cases, globally, there`s no — been no recorded deaths.
We were worried because the strain coming out of West Africa has been reported to be about 1 percent deaths. But if this gets into the vulnerable populations, including the pediatric populations, HIV-positive populations, which it`s already starting to, if it gets into pregnant women, older Americans, then you are going to start seeing more deaths.
And I think that`s what we want to avoid is a picture of a child with extensive lesions. That`s going to create some sense of panic, and that`s why we have got to move very quickly, accelerating the vaccine doses. So the Biden administration is working hard on this. They`re hoping to have 300,000 vaccine doses in the coming weeks.
It`s still not going to be enough. Even the 1.6 million vaccine doses they project coming in from Europe from the company that produces it, Bavarian Nordic, may not be enough. So that`s why I call it a race, race in terms of that vaccines, having the antiviral drugs, because they have to be released for emergency use authorization, the tecovirimat, and the diagnostic testing.
[19:25:18]
So, there`s lot of stress and a lot of pressure on a Biden administration that`s already, as you can imagine, pretty stressed out from COVID-19.
So having — being able to walk and chew gum at the same time and a very, very high level, under an extraordinary stress, I have great empathy for the leadership of the Biden administration on this. It`s going to be very tough.
JOHNSON: Speaking of races and empathy, one of the concerns of a lot of public officials — public health officials have mentioned is that, look, Central and Southern Africa have been dealing with monkeypox for a long time, but, for some reason, nobody seemed to really care until it got into Western Europe, right?
And we have seen this in the past. If a — quote, unquote — “sort of oppressed” or marginalized population” is the beginning of where a pandemic begins, then nobody really cares until it hits people that — quote, unquote — “the public cares about.”
What kind of role do you think that could play in how the Biden administration moves forward? Because it would seem to me that, as much as coming up with vaccines for America, they should probably be sending vaccines abroad to get to the patient zero to keep it from spreading to the rest of the planet?
HOTEZ: Well, two things.
I mean, you heard today from the White House how there was some boasting about how the U.S. now has more monkeypox vaccine doses than any other country. I see that as a two-edged sword. We don`t want to repeat the hoarding issues that plagued the COVID global COVID-19 response.
Look, this is why we set up our National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and Texas Children`s Hospital in Houston more than a decade ago, because we realized that the spread of these tropical infections is accelerating because of political instability and urbanization and deforestation and now climate change.
And so this is a new normal for the country. And we have to be able to manage it and recognize that pandemic preparedness is going to be every bit as important as military responses and all of the things that we also do to protect our homeland security.
JOHNSON: Unfortunately, an apocalyptic future that hopefully we can prevent with good behavior.
Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you so much for joining us tonight on THE REIDOUT.
Still ahead: Indiana begins a special legislative session aimed at taking away women`s reproductive rights. And Vice President Harris is there to help Democrats fight back.
We will be right back on THE REIDOUT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:22]
JOHNSON: Indiana may soon add its name to the growing list of states that are banning abortion following the compromised Supreme Court`s overturning of Roe vs. Wade.
Today, state lawmakers began gathering for a special session focused not on poverty or public health or COVID, but on the Republican-authored Senate Bill 1. That bill would prohibit abortion with few exceptions, while also stating that anyone who performs the procedure could be punished.
If it succeeds, which is likely, because Republican control the legislature and the governor`s office, the law will take effect on September 1. Over the last couple of weeks, Indiana has come into the national spotlight in a conversation about reproductive rights, after a 10-year-old rape victim traveled to that state from Ohio to get an abortion.
Earlier today, the man who confessed to that rape of a 10-year-old was arraigned in court, pleading not guilty to those charges.
Vice President Kamala Harris, who has been traveling all around the country, spoke on this at a roundtable today in Indianapolis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am a former prosecutor. I specialized in crimes against women and children. I specialized in child sexual assault cases.
The idea that in some states, after a child or a woman or a man, but in particular in this case of abortion, a woman or a child would have endured such an act of violence, and then to suggest that she would not have the autonomy and authority to make a decision about what happens to her body is outrageous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Meanwhile, on the Republican side, the fight against abortion rights has reached a new low, no, seriously, a new low.
Take a listen to the disgusting remarks made this weekend by Republican Congressman from Florida Matt Gaetz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Have you watched these pro-abortion, pro-murder rallies? The people are just disgusting.
Like, why is it that the women with the least likelihood of getting pregnant are the ones most worried about having abortions?
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
GAETZ: Nobody wants to impregnate you if you look like a thumb.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Oh, Mr. Gaetz.
To these Republicans, it has nothing to do with violence or health care or the right to make decisions about someone`s own body. Instead, to them, it`s all about sex. We know that`s case with Gaetz.
[19:35:02]
And that has real-life consequences for people who live in their districts.
More on that after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAETZ: Like, why is it that the women with the least likelihood of getting pregnant are the ones most worried about having abortions?
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
GAETZ: Nobody wants to impregnate you if you look like a thumb.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): We need to be the party of nationalism. And I`m a Christian. I say it proudly. We should be Christian nationalists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:40:04]
JOHNSON: Matt Gaetz is allowed at conferences where teenagers are there?
Those weren`t statements from your embarrassing uncle on Facebook. I don`t really have those. Those are statements from two members of the government`s highest legislative body during a national Republican Party conference this weekend, Turning Point.
Now, the reason we show you this isn`t to prove that these Trump cronies are extremists. We already know that. They`re terrible people. But to show you how the things they say actually have real consequences for those who live in their districts who are subjected to the policies that come from this absolutely evil way of thinking.
To talk about that, joining me now, we have Michelle Goldberg, “New York Times” columnist and MSNBC political analyst, and Shermichael Singleton, one of the best-dressed guys on TV, political consultant and host of the show “ScreenShare.”
Look, I will start with you, Michelle.
I`m not a fan of just outrage, right? You can show me all the terrorists on TV, all the Republicans saying terrible things. It`s not new. They have been doing this for most of my lifetime.
But what I do think is important is to say that, hey, these people have policy influence. So, on that end, do you think that the sort of the — the moderates and the independents in this country, do you think they`re really aware of the fact that this isn`t just hyperbole now, that Republicans are in position to take some of their craziest fantasies and make them law?
Or is it still something that most people are kind of ignoring?
MICHELLE GOLDBERG, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, I think it`s happened in some sense — how do you go — what is the old saying about how do you go broke? Suddenly and — or slowly, then suddenly, gradually, then suddenly.
This has been happening for a long time. The subtitle of my first book, which came out in 2006, was “The Rise of Christian Nationalism.” And when I was talking about this movement and the danger that it might gain political power, I think one of the biggest criticisms was that you`re being hyperbolic or that you`re being fearmongering.
Now we see people who have this ideology, that their version of a kind of malicious, muscular Christianity should be imposed on the rest of us, we see those people with real power.
So that is the direct line between the Ohio abortion story that we have been talking about, or the stories that we`re hearing from all over the country of women being denied treatment for miscarriages, for ectopic pregnancies, for pregnancies that have no chance of viability. We`re seeing already, I think, that the consequences of this Christian nationalist politics is having an effect on people who maybe never really thought that the abortion debate…
JOHNSON: Right.
GOLDBERG: … that the abortion debate was germane to their lives.
JOHNSON: Shermichael, I want to ask about this.
Look, I know plenty of people who are pro-life, but they`re not happy with the Supreme Court decision. I know people who are pro-life and conservative Christians who don`t necessarily like the idea of gay marriages and LGBTQ marriages being invalidated.
Do you think those people are a large enough demographic in America or a concerned demographic in America that they can be targeted? Or have they already sort of pick a side in these new sort of policy battles, and it doesn`t make any sense trying to microtarget them anymore?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: I mean, I guess if you were to ask, are those individuals worth being targeted if they typically vote Republican, I`m not sure, Dr. Johnson, if I would say yes to that question, because, for the most part — your a political scientist, you know this very well — those individuals, although they may not subscribe to those things, they will find other reasons to continue to typically vote Republican, to continue — to continue to associate with the conservative movement or party, if you will.
Now, as it turns to independent swing voters, I do think that there is some potential here to target those individuals, because those folks typically aren`t holistically tethered to one side or the other. They may more so like — have a preference for some conservative things, such as the economy, capitalism. Maybe they`re strong militarily.
But, socially, they`re right, ah, I think some of these folks go too far, I`m open to a different argument.
Certainly, there are individuals that are independent or swing voters that lean to the left who Democrats would typically just have to figure out a way to turn those individuals out. So, I would certainly say it is worth looking at where those voters are, what energizes them, what their interests are, and crafting a message to target them specifically around those issues, to say, yes, we know you care about these other things, but do you really want to empower this with all of the negativity?
I think those voters would be open to that message.
JOHNSON: Look, they may not be full tethers, sort of in the “Us” sense, but most of them are still voting red, even if they`re not in the whole red jumpsuits.
SINGLETON: Absolutely. Yes.
JOHNSON: Michelle, with that in mind, I wanted to point out something about Marjorie Taylor Greene`s commentary.
It`s very interesting to me. And this is also where I think Vice President Harris sort of traveling around the country, going to 800 different places over the course of the year, makes a difference. You do have people in these districts who do not agree with these policies.
Marjorie Taylor Greene is like, hey, I`m a proud white nationalist. But if you look at the data about her district, her district is 75 percent white, but it`s 12 percent Hispanic, 9 percent African-American, 1 percent Asian, 3 percent who say they are of two races or more.
[19:45:10]
I mean, there are people in these districts who do not like the fact that they`re getting swept along in this white nationalist movement. Not just from a numbers perspective, but either from a political education perspective, can those people be activated?
I mean, there have got to be people in parts of Kansas and Texas and Ohio who are like, look, if we could just get a little help or money, we`d overthrow these maniacs, because we`re not happy with the policies that they are forced down our throats.
GOLDBERG: Well, I think it`s important to say, Marjorie Taylor Greene identified herself as a Christian nationalist, which is obviously a mostly white movement, adjacent to white nationalism.
But there are also certainly Hispanics who are sympathetic to that movement. And we see, to some extent, groups besides white men trending towards the Republican Party because of social issues. I guess the question is, when there is a widespread recognition that this party has become so cruel, so far out of the mainstream, so extremist and untethered from most people`s ordinary experiences, that there`s some sort of revolt.
Unfortunately, though, because of gerrymandering and because of the various countermajoritarian elements of our system, just having a majority say this is not who we are is not enough. These districts are made in many cases to protect — if not to protect Marjorie Taylor Greene, to insulate a lot of these Republicans from accountability.
JOHNSON: Right.
GOLDBERG: I think that what we`re seeing now is the way a party behaves when it knows that it`s somewhat protected from democratic accountability.
JOHNSON: Shermichael, speaking of sort of lack of democratic functioning in our government, the Senate has been probably the big focus this year.
The Democrats are concerned about the Republican organization, because they`re no longer a party. They`re concerned about it.
One of the races that, quite frankly, two months ago was totally off the radar was J.D. Vance and Tim Ryan. Most people assume that J.D. Vance, despite all of his sort of issues, was going to just cruise to a victory. Now it looks like he`s in trouble.
You have got a situation where not only do you have Republicans in the state who are saying, hey, this guy is running the worst campaign we have seen in years, and we use to deal with John Kasich, but, also, he is being outraised by Tim Ryan by a significant amount of money.
I guess the question, is there a possibility that Republicans have overplayed their hand with some of these Astroturf phony candidates, and they may lose seats that they shouldn`t lose this fall, despite the fact that they have gerrymandered districts and engage in amazing voter suppression?
SINGLETON: And I guess anything if possible, to answer that question.
What is interesting to me, though, is the transformation of J.D. Vance. I mean, Doc, let`s keep in mind — and you I have talked about this years ago — this was the guy who wrote the great book, right, describing these Trump voters that we now so — that we talk about so frequently today, the gentleman who was on CNN frequently.
He was on MSNBC frequently, typically brought on as the quasi-expert, if you will, on who these people are, why they think the way they do, their grievance and why they`re so tethered to Trump, now has done a complete 360.
And then you have on the other side Tim Ryan, who, by all accounts is a moderate Democrat, who I actually think can speak to some of those middle- of-the-road Republicans who may be a bit disgruntled, who may be ready to move on from Donald Trump and don`t want mini-Trumps representing their state.
And to the point that you raised that question about, can you bring along those disparate coalition groups, I think, in order to beat someone like him in a year that may be best positioned for Republicans, at least looking at some early generic polling, you have to turn those people out, Doc.
JOHNSON: Right.
SINGLETON: You can`t afford to not have black voters out. You can`t afford to have — not have Asian voters out, Hispanic voters, if they`re there.
All of those numbers count because, if you can build that solid enough coalition, mathematically — and, again, Doc, you`re a political scientist — you know this — Democrats have the advantage.
The question, though, is, can you pull all of those disparate groups together? If you can, you can win.
JOHNSON: You can still win.
Michelle Goldberg and Shermichael Singleton, thank you so much for joining me.
SINGLETON: Thanks, Doc.
GOLDBERG: Thank you.
JOHNSON: Up next: I am just back from San Diego Comic-Con, where organizers paid special tribute to the late Congressman John Lewis and the stirring graphic novels he inspired.
All of my fun, all of your FOMOs about to happen — when we`re back in a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:54:00]
JOHNSON: It was a huge weekend for me and the rest of the self-proclaimed nerd and blerd community.
Shout out to Blerd Brunchville (ph), Aldis, Sanford, and the rest.
After two years of COVID caution, San Diego Comic-Con was back. There were amazing parties, screenings and panels. The new “Black Panther” two trailer dropped. I was very pleased. The animated “Green Lantern” debuted and the Eisner Awards for Excellence in Comics were handed out.
What many forget, though, is that, even with the movies and the celebrities, the core of Comic-Con is still comics. And that includes graphic novels, longer narratives in one book, unlike sort of serialized comic books.
In 1967, civil rights icon Julian Bond put his opposition to the Vietnam War in comic book form, with illustrations by T.G. Lewis. The 9/11 Committee report was also given its own graphic adaption in 2006.
And who could forget “Maus,” Art Spiegelman`s Pulitzer Prize-winning depiction of the horrors of the Holocaust?
[19:55:00]
Late great civil rights era John Lewis understood the power of the graphic novel very well. He co-authored “The March” trilogy about his experiences during the civil rights movement. And the sequel to the series is “Run.” Its first volume just finished as Lewis died in 2020.
Lewis himself attended several Comic-Cons to promote his graphic novels, leading children on a children`s March in 2015. Lewis attended his final Comic-Con in 2017.
This weekend, I attended a panel featuring Lewis` grandson, John-Miles Lewis, and a children`s march with voter registration was held in Lewis` honor at the end.
For more, I`m joined by Andrew Aydin, a former adviser to the late Congressman John Lewis and co-author of Lewis` last graphic novel “Run: Book One,” as well as “The March” trilogy.
Arthur (sic), thank you so much for joining me this evening.
ANDREW AYDIN, CO-AUTHOR, “RUN: BOOK ONE”: Thank you so much for having me, Jason. It`s good to be with you.
JOHNSON: So, I just wanted to point out, because I was at the panel. I thought it was fantastic. I thought it was moving. Just tell us a little bit about why John Lewis, who at one point actually cosplayed as himself at the convention,why did John Lewis want his story told as a graphic novel? There will be movies about him. There will be documentaries. There are specials.
But why did he want this particular art form to express his story as well?
AYDIN: Well, first, comics and graphic novels have a long history in the civil rights movement, as you mentioned, Julian Bond`s Vietnam comic from 1967. The Lowndes County Freedom Organization produced comics in 1966.
Martin Luther King Jr. himself edited a comic book in 1957 called “Martin Luther King and the Montgomery Story.”
But, more than anything, comic books are the future. Sequential narrative is the language of this generation, because they grew up on the Internet. And if you want to reach them, you have to do it in their language. And the beauty of comics and graphic novels, too, is that there is no age limit.
As the congressman would say, anyone from 8 to 80 or young people or people who are not so young, we can all read them. And we digest this information so much more efficiently and so much more quickly, that it allows us to reach as many — the broadest possible audience.
JOHNSON: So, Andrew, this is one of the things that I found really interesting also, when I was sitting there and watching the panel and having gone through “March” and currently going through “Run,” is that you see that it is sharing history in ways that your regular textbooks don`t reach.
We`re now at a time in our country, and particularly in Georgia, where you have Republicans and white nationalists pushing against this fake Critical Race Theory. They`re pushing — passing state laws against divisive concepts.
John Lewis is a national hero. He is a Georgia hero. Do you think that it would be possible to get “March” and “Run” into schools in Georgia right now, given that they have passed laws against Critical Race Theory? Would this be considered Critical Race Theory if you tried to explain it or give it to Brian Kemp, assuming he can read it?
AYDIN: I mean, Brian Kemp is going to make up whatever definition he wants of Critical Race Theory, but this is about teaching the truth and teaching history.
And “March” is one of the most widely taught graphic novels in America. And “Run” is finding its place. People forget that, before we produce “March,” there was something called the nine-word problem. It was a term coined by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
And it said, essentially, the vast majority of students were graduating from high school only knowing nine words about the civil rights movement, Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, I have a dream, and that`s it.
But in a single decade, “March” was able to fix that problem. And now we have the civil rights movement taught not just in history class, and not just in social studies class, but in English classes and literature classes, because, as “March” book three was the first graphic novel to win the National Book Award.
And it won more literary awards from the American Library Association than any other book in its history. And now “Run” winning the Eisner Award on Friday night, it`s continuing this tradition. And I think part of the reason that they have made up all of these problems, whether it`s Critical Race Theory or whatever they want to call it, in education is because these books are working.
They`re reaching students. I remember talking to Congressman Lewis after he saw the Black Lives Matter lettering painted in front of the White House. And he said, it looks just like the cover of “March” book three. And then, as he watched the students protests and rise up in response to the murder of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, he called them the march generation.
For a decade now, we have been teaching the civil rights movement in schools through comic books, and it`s been working. But I think that that is the reason why you see so much being made now about how we teach readers…
JOHNSON: Right.
AYDIN: … how we teach history in our classrooms.
JOHNSON: And I got to point out to the audience, in case you think that this is still sort of about funny books, the most banned book in America last year was my Maia Kobabe`s “Gender Queer.”
So, clearly, comic books are having an impact. That`s why the right is after them.
Andrew, I thank you so much for joining me this evening. Had a fun time meeting you at Comic-Con.
AYDIN: It`s so good to see you. Come back again, please.
JOHNSON: Definitely.
And that`s tonight`s REIDOUT.
“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts right now.