Updated
Summary
The January 6 Committee reveals new video of a tour given the day before the insurrection. Is extreme weather changing Yellowstone National Park forever? Primary results show how deeply the big lie is taking hold inside the Republican Party. Can the Biden administration tackle high gas prices?
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on THE REIDOUT:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re coming to take you out. We will pull you out by your hairs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The January 6 Committee is connecting the dots.
The guy who just heard making threats on January 6 is the same guy who appeared to be doing surveillance in the Capitol the day before, during a highly questionable tour given by a Republican congressman.
Plus, this week`s primaries show that the big lie is alive and well in the Republican Party and a major threat to the next presidential election.
And have you seen the jaw-dropping video from the Yellowstone extreme weather — from the Yellowstone — from Yellowstone? Extreme weather is likely changing the park forever.
And we begin THE REIDOUT, however, tonight with lingering questions about what role Republican members of Congress may have played in the lead-up to the January 6 insurrection and the attempts to overturn the 2020 election.
Today, the January 6 Committee released a new security surveillance video that it says shows Georgia Republican Congressman Barry Loudermilk giving a tour to a group of people through office buildings and tunnel entrances in and around the Capitol at a time when it was still closed to the public because of COVID.
The hours-long tour was given on January 5, the day before the insurrection. In a letter to Loudermilk, the committee points out that these so-called guests seemed very interested in photographing some unusual aspects of the Capitol Complex, like staircases, hallways and security checkpoints, not your average hot spots for tourist photo-ops.
The Capitol Police chief says that he`s reviewed the surveillance footage and believes that none of the activities he saw were suspicious. Well, not every member of Congress agrees with that assessment.
Pennsylvania Congressman Brendan Boyle tweeted: “This is the stairwell that I take to my office. And in my eight years here, I have never seen a tourist take a picture of it.”
Loudermilk also told NBC News that the committee is pushing a false narrative that has already been put to bed. But, according to the committee, that same guy that you saw on Loudermilk`s tour taking photos in the hallways and stairwells participated in the rally the following day.
And while it appears he did not enter the Capitol, he made a disturbing video threatening members of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no escape, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler. We`re coming for you. We`re coming in like white on rice for Pelosi, Nadler, Schumer, even you, AOC. We`re coming to take you out. We will pull you out by your hairs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: As for the other things Republican lawmakers may have done to try to overturn the 2020 election, we got a preview from Liz Cheney last week, name-dropping one other Republican lawmaker of interest to the committee, especially as it relates to Donald Trump`s attempts to use the Department of Justice to help pull off his attempted coup.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Representative Scott Perry, who was also involved in trying to get Clark appointed as attorney general, has refused to testify here.
As you will see, Representative Perry contacted the White House in the weeks after January 6 to seek a presidential pardon. Multiple other Republican congressmen also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Now, why would anyone ask for presidential pardon unless they knew that they`d done something criminal? And who were the other Republican members of Congress who sought presidential pardons? The committee has said those names will be made public as the hearings continue.
And so while congressmen like Barry Loudermilk and Scott Perry may not be the most recognizable, household names, they could be some of the most vulnerable as the investigation continues.
Joining me now is Melissa Murray, NYU law professor and an MSNBC legal analyst, and Miles Taylor, former chief of staff of the Department of Homeland Security and co-founder of the Renew America Movement.
And, Miles Taylor, I want to start with you on this.
Let me let you listen to Barry Loudermilk. And he tries to explain why his — taking pictures inside the Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BARRY LOUDERMILK (R-GA): What they were taking a picture of is, I took the family and, of course, the other folks who were with him had two young kids that wanted to see the little trains that take congressmen. So I took them to show them where the trolley was in the Rayburn Tunnel.
QUESTION: But why do you think pictures are being taken of the stairwell, around security?
LOUDERMILK: If you go to that stairwell, there`s a golden eagle sconce that`s on the wall. That`s what he was taking a picture off. I mean, there — these are folks who have never been to Washington, D.C., and they were here to visit their congressman.
And they were excited.
QUESTION: Why not just speak to the committee and just…
[19:05:00]
LOUDERMILK: Because the committee has never called me and ask me anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: And we`re going to send it re-pull that video again, Miles, while I ask you this question, because the video that this guy made did have stills in it.
He cut it together, I guess, using his iPhone or whatever. I didn`t see pictures of a wall sconce. I didn`t see pictures of an eagle. I didn`t see pictures of any kids. OK, here`s the video again. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no escape, Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler. We`re coming for you. We`re coming in like white on rice for Pelosi, Nadler, Schumer, even you, AOC. We`re coming to take you out. We will pull you out by your hairs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Nadler is named specifically. There`s a still picture of Jerry Nadler`s Office door.
And then if you guys could see the little sign that was at the bottom of that picture of a group of congressmen, it said “Majority Staff.”
So he got close enough to take pictures of that. That`s what he took pictures of.
As somebody who worked in the Homeland Security Department, what does that say to you? And does that set off any alerts about this tour?
MILES TAYLOR, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, Joy, I think you really pointed out the key fact here is, forget the Capitol, forget January 6, forget politics.
If this had just been any other environment, it would have almost risen to the level or maybe had to a criminal referral. I mean, I have worked for many years in national security and with law enforcement. This is a very clear threat towards real-life individuals.
These aren`t characters. These aren`t cartoons. Nancy Pelosi is a real person. Jerry Nadler is a real person. These are living, breathing human beings who this man is saying he wants to pull them out by their hair. He`s coming for them to get them. And this is highly threatening language. It`s not something that I think the committee is overreacting to at all.
It`s incredibly reasonable for them to ask these questions. I know Barry Loudermilk personally. I know Scott Perry personally. When I served in the House of Representatives as a staffer, I worked with them, in fact, very regularly. And, at best, I think that Congressman Loudermilk is being taken for a ride by the people that he gave a tour to and, at worst, potentially knows something he should share with the committee.
I would really urge him to be immensely skeptical about what happened here, because it seems evident to just about anyone who would watch those videos that this constituent wasn`t there for an innocent purpose just to go see the trains. This constituent was articulating a potentially violent threat against elected officials. That is serious. They should take it seriously.
And Congressman Loudermilk shouldn`t just wait for the committee to come to him and ask questions. He should be affirmatively going and sharing all the information he can and has with the committee. I mean, the fact that they have released this video shows that the bipartisan select committee is taking this extremely seriously.
And that also means that the Justice Department is taking this seriously. So, the congressman should as well.
REID: And, Melissa, if you are giving tours, especially during a time when the Capitol is closed, so someone had to make a special request to get a Capitol tour.
It`s not a common thing. You had to go to your congressman, ask for a tour. But that means that your congressman staff, at minimum, knows who you are. They have your name. They have your contact information. They had to take I.D.s, et cetera. So he knew who these people were.
One of them turns out to be somebody who then issues threats against specific members and takes pictures of their door and of the staff. So he knows something about the inside layout of the Capitol. And then the next day, the Capitol is stormed and every member of Congress is running for their lives.
If I worked in a bank, and I worked in a beautiful sort of old-time bank building, and I had some people who asked me to give them a tour, and I said, sure, and I gave them a tour, and the next day the bank was robbed, I would feel compelled, even out of self-preservation, to call the police and say, hey, I know who these people are. Don`t — don`t blame me. I didn`t mean to give them a tour.
So, even if you didn`t do it on purpose, you know that the person that you gave the tour to made threats.
Why should — to Miles Taylor`s point, why should the committee have to come to him? Shouldn`t he have a fiduciary duty to the American people and to his fellow members of Congress to go to the committee?
MELISSA MURRAY, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: That is the question, Joy.
I mean, I think, as you say, this was such an unusual episode to come so close to the storming of the Capitol the very next day, that someone who was thinking about his obligations to the Constitution, to the country might very well have volunteered this information: I gave this tour. I didn`t realize that perhaps there was a more nefarious purpose. I don`t know if there was a more nefarious purpose, but it looks suspicious. I think I should tell you.
That would be, I think, the thing that most individuals would do. And I think it`s really important that the select committee has decided to show this, because I think there are a number of different audiences to whom this plays, obviously to the court of public opinion.
[19:10:03]
The public should know what was happening, should know that perhaps there are these sort of unusual episodes that preceded the attack on the Capitol on January 6. But, more importantly, the Justice Department should know for that individual and can perhaps think about this in terms of premeditation, given the threats that he made the next day.
But it`s also important for Congress to hear this, because Congress is proceeding with these hearings under the auspices of its investigative and oversight authority. And perhaps there needs to be new protocols for things like congressional tours. These things have happened for years, but there are always these various procedures you have to go through.
Maybe some of the procedures need to be tightened up and certain sensitive areas of the Capitol Complex need to be off-limits to everyone. So there are a lot of different purposes that this hearing can serve.
But, at the very least, I think someone who had this kind of information should have been forthcoming.
REID: Absolutely. It said “Majority Staff,” meaning staff members, people were running for their lives the next day.
Miles, let me go back to you, because one of the things in this extraordinary “Washington Post” article, it talked about all the ways that Trump tried to corrupt the Justice Department, threatened to put in an environmental lawyer in the Justice Department as the head of DOJ, et cetera.
But there was another part of it where he talked about the fact that he didn`t want Mike Pence to be in the know on what happened. He basically said, Justice Department, just issue a letter, like he did with Ukraine. Issue a letter and let the members of Congress, I guess, who were on his side, they will take care of it.
Then, after that, after that sort of is shot down because he`s told everybody will quit, he says, Jeffrey Clark had — Jeffrey Clark, then he had another idea. He asked whether Steve Engel could provide a formal opinion about what authority Vice President Pence had when it comes to opening the votes of the Electoral College results on January 6, according to a deposition.
Trump interjected that he didn`t want anyone attending the meeting to talk to Mike Pence about what to do on January 6. So, Pence is deliberately left out. Now let`s look at a picture of Mike Pence with his wife in their office after they`d been evacuated. I believe that might be a staff member might be the third person.
She is closing the doors. I mean his daughter. I`m sorry. That is daughter. And his wife is closing the curtains because they can see and hear — per Jonathan Karl of ABC, they could see and hear the insurrectionists outside, and they were afraid.
What do you make of this, the fact that it appears that everyone, including members of Congress, seemed to be in on the scam, except the man who people were threatening to hang, the vice president of the United States?
M. TAYLOR: I think it tells you, Joy, that this is so much worse than something like Watergate. This is so much worse than Watergate. This is a watershed moment for our democracy, where basically the vice president of the United States was afraid for his life because of actions the president of the United States was taking.
Now, that`s not Miles Taylor spitballing. I mean, we have seen reports now that Pence`s own staff the day before allegedly flagged for his Secret Service lead detail that they were concerned that what the president was doing was going to lead to violence against the vice president.
Now, I helped oversee the U.S. Secret Service, not just as chief of staff at DHS, but on the Appropriations Committee that oversees the Secret Service and the Authorizing Committee in Congress. And guess what? I have never seen anything like this in the history of the Secret Service. We have never experienced anything like a vice president fleeing for his life because of something the president of the United States is doing, not at least in the modern era.
So there`s almost no historical parallel for what we`re witnessing. And, again, that`s what makes it so much more significant than any of these other episodes we have seen in the past. And to your point about the Justice Department, that`s what we`re going to get into tomorrow with the select committee…
REID: Yes.
M. TAYLOR: … is, very importantly, they`re going to drill down into conversations about what the Justice Department knew.
And that`s where, if there are any smoking guns in this, you see them in the way that Donald Trump handled the Justice Department. And you can look back to the beginning of the Trump administration and see him learning how to try to manipulate his Justice Department, but he was often met with exactly what you said, threats to resign.
But by the end of the administration, Trump had grown accustomed to just saying, I will fire people, and put it in place the people who will do what they`re told.
REID: Yes.
M. TAYLOR: That`s what`s really alarming.
REID: And usually incompetent people who didn`t even know how to do the job.
Last question. We`re going to see, Melissa, testimony from the vice president`s legal counsel, who was with Vice President Pence on January 6 at the Capitol, but also retired Judge Michael Luttig, who is an informal adviser to Pence. He`s one of the people that Mike Pence went to and said, is any of this legal, this idea that I myself can simply change the election?
You will know better than most people who are watching this show. I only know because I`m a complete super nerd. This is a luminary of conservative jurisprudence. This is a very conservative judge.
What are you expecting to hear from him? What should we expect to hear when we hear Mike Luttig testify?
MURRAY: You`re exactly right, Joy.
Judge J. Mike Luttig is in the firmament of the conservative legal movement. He was a judge on the Fourth Circuit. He was widely touted to be in the running for the seat that now Chief Justice John Roberts holds.
[19:15:07]
So, this is no-fly by night conservative. This is someone who`s a dyed-in- the-wool conservative and someone who makes very clear that he was absolutely alarmed and indeed disturbed to act when he heard what the vice president was telling him he was being advised to do. And so he acted, again, out of conscience, out of love for country and for the Constitution, and not about any kind of party affiliation.
And I think what we`re going to see from his testimony tomorrow is exactly that thread, that this was a threat that so exceeded the scope of his own partisan leanings, that this was a death threat to democracy, a threat to the country a threat to the very Constitution he swore an oath to.
REID: And don`t let anybody tell you that this is some partisan attack on Donald Trump or on Trumpism. This is NDI, no Democrats involved.
These are Republicans who were fighting Republicans in a contest over whether we were going to be a democracy or have our — literally have our government overthrown. Watch this space, as the great Rachel Maddow would say.
Want to thank Melissa Murray. Thank you. Miles Taylor, thank you very much.
Up next on THE REIDOUT: Trump`s candidates had some wins and some losses yesterday, but the primary results show how deeply the big lie is taking hold inside the party.
The REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:57]
REID: The primary season continued in several states on Tuesday, including Nevada, where Republicans who embrace the big lie emerged victorious.
Jim Marchant, who told NBC News he would not have certified the 2020 results, is the Republican nominee for secretary of state, bringing him one step closer to becoming the top elections official in that crucial swing state.
In another race, former Nevada Attorney General Adam Laxalt, who ran Trump`s campaign in the state, won the primary to take on incumbent Democrat Catherine Cortez Masto for a Senate seat, while, in South Carolina, Tom Rice, one of 10 Republican in the House who voted to impeach Trump for his role in the insurrection, lost, making him the first pro- impeachment Republican to lose a primary against a Trump-backed challenger.
Also in South Carolina, Republican incumbent Nancy Mace, who criticized Trump after January 6, won her primary against a Trump-backed challenger, narrowly dodging the purge by embracing Trump during her campaign for reelection. More on that in a minute.
And then a victory for Mayra Flores, the QAnon-curious Republican who flipped a House seat in the Democratic stronghold of South Texas.
Joining me now is Fernand Amandi, MSNBC political analyst and pollster, and David Pepper, former chair of the Ohio Democratic Party and author of “Laboratories of Autocracy: A Wake-Up Call from Behind the Lines.” Well, that`s a book that was certainly timely.
Let`s go back. Let`s circle back. Let`s go back to South Carolina for a minute. Let me play Nancy Mace`s — the makeup. This is how she managed to hold her seat by kissing up. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Hey, everyone. Congresswoman Nancy Mace here.
I`m in front of Trump Tower today. And I remember, in 2015, when President Trump announced his run. I was one of his earliest supporters. I actually worked for the campaign in 2016. I worked in seven different states across the country to help get him elected.
QUESTION: Donald Trump tried to oust you from the Republican Party. What is your message to Donald Trump now?
MACE: My message is the same to him as it is anybody else on either side of the aisle. I am willing to work with anyone who is willing to work with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK, and now let`s play Tom Rice. Here`s a fellow South Carolinian. This is one who lost. And this is him on election night saying he don`t regret a thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM RICE (R-SC): He can say whatever he wants to. I have made my opinions very well known. I know I did the right thing. I would do it again tomorrow.
I don`t vote for the job. I vote to do the right thing. I don`t vote for a man. I vote to uphold the Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: And, of course, he means — by him, he means Trump.
David Pepper, what do — do these two races say anything about the future of our country and whether democracy can hold?
DAVID PEPPER, FORMER CHAIR, OHIO DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I mean, they`re obviously mixed.
I mean, I really respect what the congressman said at the end there, that there`s a sort of bigger picture legacy you have when you`re in office, and he`s trying to leave one that he can be proud of.
I will say, bigger picture, though, the really troubling — maybe of all races last night, the one that should really worry us most, it`s sort of the canary in the coal mine, is that secretary of state`s race in Nevada. You have all around this country election deniers, the people who — like Jim Marchant, who wouldn`t have seated that Trump — the Biden delegation.
Arizona, Minnesota, Michigan all over, they`re the candidates running for secretary of state. They`re also running for statehouses. And regardless of the federal ones, which are also important, these are folks who are mostly winning these primaries. And when you`re looking at `24, they`re going to write the rules of the elections in `24. And then they`re going to be the ones running the election.
So the thing we really have to watch out for, the people attacking democracy, the front line for them is states, in statehouses and secretaries of state.
REID: Yes.
PEPPER: That`s where they`re really being aggressive. They`re putting much more money than they ever have. And that should be the real wakeup call going forward, is all these state-level races that will shape the `24 election, as much as anyone on the federal level.
REID: Well, I mean, and to that very point, Fernand, Jim Marchant, he`s one of 23 election deniers in the — who are running in the 2020 elections in 17 states, in 17 states across the country, per an organization called States United Action.
[19:25:13]
So that is a really good point, right? I mean, Democrats tend to really fixate on the White House, on the presidency. Republicans have fixated on these states. And they`re doing quite well in doing that.
FERNAND AMANDI, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: It`s exactly the point.
Joy, it`s a lot like that zombie movie “World War Z.” You run enough with these zombie election denier MAGA candidates, it`s tough to pick them all off when they`re all coming at the same time. And it only takes a few of them to get through to oversee the elections in some of these critical states, and you have democracy at the barrel of a gun, as we`re seeing right now.
Even in my home state of Florida, you know here that the secretary of state is a QAnon supporter.
REID: Yes.
AMANDI: He is also appointed by Ron DeSantis. So this is the hack of democracy that we`re seeing.
And, candidly, the problem here, I think, still continues to come down to the Justice Department. Until indictments start to come down on the perpetrators of criminal activity by elected officeholders that we`re seeing, Joy, this is going to just be dismissed as political back-and- forth.
I`m seeing it in focus groups around the country. Everyday Americans are saying, well, if there were really something serious, you would see these people get arrested, get indicted. It`s just politics as usual in the minds of many.
And it`s becoming dangerous, because, right now, elections cannot be a remedy to deal with criminal activity in the United States. That`s what the rule of law and the Justice Department is for.
REID: Well, and, David Pepper, I mean, we`re in a situation right now where half of Americans — and that means Democrats and Republicans — have just told a poll recently, a Yahoo/YouGov poll, that America will cease to be a democracy in the future.
What`s not asked here is whether you`re glad about that, because I think there`s some people who are not unhappy with that outcome, that not everyone is committed to the idea of this being a democracy.
PEPPER: No, I mean, look at — CPAC was in Hungary. That`s a…
REID: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PEPPER: … autocracy.
Peter Thiel literally says that democracy is inconsistent with freedom, and he`s supporting all these candidates. These people are running to run elections who are election deniers.
So, clearly, once — not all Republicans, but there`s a chunk of people who literally are now saying that they don`t want to see the results of our newer, diverse democracy.
And I will say we have to have accountability through the DOJ, I completely agree, for anyone who tried to undo the last election. But Democrats have to start opening their eyes beyond the federal. The other side knows the key to democracy is shaped in states, in statehouses.
And until we know, as Democrats — every Democrat can tell you the swing Senate races, right?
REID: Yes.
PEPPER: They need to know the swing secretary of state races.
REID: Yes.
PEPPER: They need to know that we`re only two seats from winning the Arizona Statehouse and only three from winning the Michigan Statehouse.
The other side, the Koch brothers and ALEC, they know this stuff like the back of their hand. And all we do is get excited about a few Senate races, while they`re destroying democracy in states.
REID: Right.
PEPPER: So we have got to be accountable . We need accountability at the legal level, but we need to be much savvier politically and go to where democracy is most fiercely being attack, which is in state after state after state.
REID: Yes, indeed.
And, to that very point, let`s talk about Mayra Flores.
And, by the way, one person who doesn`t believe that we should be a democracy is Mike Lee. He now has a much tougher race. Larry Sabato has actually downgraded that race little bit. So, there are some people who do care in some states.
Let`s talk really quickly. We don`t have a ton of time. Mayra Flores. This was a race which is a — it had a tiny turnout. Like, less than — fewer than 30,000 people voted. She flips this seat that had been traditionally Democratic. It`s an 85 percent Hispanic — it`s the second most Hispanic, apparently, congressional district in America. She picks it up.
But can you talk a little bit about this? Because Democrats really didn`t even compete. She ran these really compelling personal ads about being born in Mexico. Her husband is a member of the Border Patrol. Democrats didn`t even play. There`s 711,000 people in that district. Only 29,000 voted.
This is a problem, right?
AMANDI: Well, let me just say this is what I call an Astroturf — Astroturf mirage victory by the Republicans, because they throw about $8 million or $9 million to capture this seat.
Joy, the Democrats are going to regain this seat in the November elections. There is no doubt about it. Now, in the short term, it`s good for the Republicans in the sense they will be able to say, look at what we have done. We have elected the first Mexican-born member of Congress. But this is short-lived and Democrats should not go into a panic and recognize the broader picture.
This is still about November, and it`s about holding on to the House in the Senate. And I really do believe, based on the numbers of what I have seen for November, with higher turnout, this seat will revert back to the Democrats.
REID: That`s the risk. Don`t wet the bed. Turn out the vote, especially in state races, not just federal and not just presidential.
Fernand Amandi, David Pepper, thank you both very much.
[19:30:02]
Coming up next: the increasingly dire situation in Eastern Ukraine, what the White House is doing about that and about Brittney Griner and others being held prisoner by Russia.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: As the situation the battlefield in Ukraine becomes dire, President Biden announced to say that the U.S. will be giving an additional $1 billion in aid to the country.
[19:35:04]
This comes as Putin`s attacks have been relentless, and many are worried that it will only get worse. One of his top advisers posted on Telegram that Ukraine won`t exist as a country anymore in a few years, and Putin has been comparing himself to the czar Peter the Great, raising even more alarm bells.
U.S. officials say they are preparing for a long-term support of the Ukrainian government and more weapons. But, as “The New York Times” points out, officials are clearly concerned that both American public interest in the conflict and European unity might wane.
A European poll shows that more than a third of Europeans favor ending the conflict as soon as possible, even if it means Ukraine has to concede territory, which comes as French President Macron says that Ukraine will eventually have to negotiate with Russia.
In a meeting with representatives from 45 NATO countries that he convened in Brussels, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin stressed that this is a pivotal moment to support Ukraine, as Russia has been bearing down in the eastern part of the country, particularly the city of Severodonetsk.
NBC`s Ali Arouzi has the latest from Ukraine — Ali.
ALI AROUZI, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Joy.
Well, as you know, the Luhansk district is the industrial heartland of Ukraine, and the Russians are burning it to the ground. Their focal point for the last several weeks has been that eastern region, and they have been really pounding it, especially Severodonetsk, the capital of the Luhansk area. And the momentum seems to be on the Russian side.
They`re pounding that place with artillery and rockets. And they have pushed the Ukrainians into a very small pocket of control. There are a lot of civilians now hiding in the bunker of this huge chemical plant in that city.
The Russians gave them an ultimatum, surrender by 8:30 this morning, and they will give them safe passage into Russian territory. But the Ukrainians didn`t do that, just like the situation at that steel plant in Mariupol.
And the Ukrainians are having a hard time defending themselves. So that aid package that President Biden has pledged today, a billion dollars, can`t come soon enough. But the Ukrainians are saying that`s barely enough for them to defend themselves, let alone launch some kind of offensive against the Russians.
So I think, in the coming days and weeks, we`re going to see a very bad bloody battle there, because it`s so pivotal. If the Russians get Severodonetsk, they`re going to pretty much control the eastern front.
REID: Thank you, Ali.
And joining me now is former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor, now vice president for Russia and Europe at the U.S. Institute for Peace — Institute of Peace.
Thank you for being here. Mr. Ambassador.
And I worry now that, while the world has been looking away, for good reason, gun massacres and all the rest that`s happened in elections and everything that`s going on, what happened in Uvalde, et cetera, it feels like Ukraine, which felt like it was winning, might not be.
Is that an accurate assessment? How worried should we be?
WILLIAM TAYLOR, ACTING U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Joy, you`re certainly right.
We need to maintain support. And other things pull at that attention, just exactly as you have described. It is no less important now than it was two months ago for the Ukrainians to win. The Ukrainians need to be able to push back on the Russians. They need to be able to hold off the Russians.
Greatly outnumbered. Let`s be clear, the Russians just have a lot more equipment, a lot more weapons, a lot more ammunition. The Ukrainians have a lot more spirit, a lot more drive, a lot more — higher morale. So, it`s still there. It`s still a battle. It`s still a slugfest going back and forth either way, Joy.
REID: And we now know that there are — the State Department is now confirming that they have discouraged Americans from going over there, but many have done so anyway.
But they`re now aware of unconfirmed reports of two U.S. citizens captured in Ukraine. The U.S. says they`re closely monitoring the situation and are in contact with Ukrainian authorities. This just ratchets things up. We do know that Brittney Griner is still a captive there. There`s still another – – there`s still another American who`s a captive there.
What does this do to the situation with you — with Americans potentially captured?
W. TAYLOR: Well, Joy, you`re exactly right.
Americans should not be traveling in Ukraine. It`s dangerous. It`s dangerous just to be there in a war zone, in particular that part of Ukraine. But it`s also dangerous being an American there, the relations with the Russians, as you have just described. It`s not just the Ukrainian issue. There are other issues. They`re holding Americans.
They`re holding Russians. They`re cracking down on people who are just trying to speak their mind. So it is not a good time to be traveling to Ukraine, obviously not a time to travel to Russia.
REID: And, obviously, Mr. Navalny and Mr. Kara-Murza, Vladimir Kara-Murza, who he — is well-known by this show.
What does it say about Putin`s state of mind, the fact that he has increased Alexey Navalny`s incarceration, the fact that he`s still holding Vladimir Kara-Murza and still holding Brittney Griner, speaking about himself as if he is a czar, stealing the food resources, the agricultural resources of Ukraine, sort of looting it.
[19:40:12]
He appears less and less stable, to be charitable. What does that do to our calculations about how to deal with him?
W. TAYLOR: We have to be tough Joy. We just have to be tough.
This is a man who thinks of himself as a great Russian leader. He compares him to himself to Peter the Great, who invaded nations neighboring them in order to take back nations that — take back property, territory land that he says Slavs own, not just Russians, Slavs.
So this is a real threat to all of his neighbors. It`s obviously a big threat to Ukraine. But for him to be stealing grain, stealing food from Ukraine, this goes back. This reminds Ukrainians of the four million Ukrainians that were starved to death by Joe Stalin.
So this is — this is a bad precedent.
REID: And the other issue is the stick-to-itiveness of Europe and whether or not they have a temperament to do it, and whether — Americans too,. I mean, oil prices are through the roof. Oil prices are through the roof across the world, and in Europe especially even more so than here.
Is there a concern that the European population and that the American population will grow weary and will weaken their support of Ukraine because of just the pure economic need and necessity?
W. TAYLOR: There is, of course, that concern. And that just — that encourages us all to focus on this issue, to remind ourselves what`s at stake here.
What`s at stake here is the security of Europe. What`s at stake here is a democracy fighting an autocracy. What`s at stake here is freedom that we care about. And that`s important.
Yes, the — all the things that you mentioned are going to pull away from that. We need to show leadership. And, so far, we have. We have — and the Europeans are sticking with us. It`s hard. It`ll get harder. We have to stick with it.
REID: Indeed. It was hard to fight Hitler, and then the world stuck together and did that too. And this man can be defeated as well.
Ambassador William Taylor, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir. Really appreciate you being here.
Up next on THE REIDOUT: why your gas prices are so painfully high and the new steps that President Biden and the Fed chairman are taking to try to get inflation under control.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:47:03]
REID: It`s not even officially summer yet, but today`s weather was dangerously hot for 100 million Americans, with the National Weather Service declaring an excessive heat warning or a heat advisory across most of the Midwest and part of the Southeast.
They estimated today that 32 places are forecast to either break or come within one degree of their record high temperatures. Over the weekend, scorching heat waves but record high temperatures to 16 cities from the Southwest to the Southern Plains, following dangerously high temperatures last week in portions of the Southwest and South Texas.
Residents of Odessa, Texas, which faced 100-degree weather yesterday, have gone without water for the past two days after a water main broke. Water has since been partially restored.
But the deputy city manager noted that it happened because it`s an aging infrastructure, a problem that Texas has faced before.
Hey, Greg Abbott.
And if all of that doesn`t convince people that it climate crisis is here, just take a look at the apocalyptic scene at Yellowstone National Park in Montana, an area facing historic flooding, rockslides and what officials have described as extremely hazardous conditions.
The floods washed out bridges and roads and entirely cut off access to the town of Gardiner, Montana, where you can see the river entirely swallowing a house. The flooding also made drinking water unsafe in some areas.
And this popular, beautiful national park is not only indefinitely closed, but it`s now forever changed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The landscape literally and figuratively has changed dramatically in the last 36 hours. A little bit ironic that this spectacular landscape was created by violent geologic and hydrologic events, and it`s just not very handy when it happens while we`re all here settled on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Just sit with that for a moment.
Our recklessness as humans and failure to care for the planet that we live on has led to a situation where the Yellowstone Park that I was lucky enough to visit as a kid may never be the same. And it`s going to keep happening, changing the whole planet, until it`s entirely unrecognizable.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:53:19]
REID: According to AAA, the national average for gas is roughly $5 a gallon, which takes a significant chunk out of your wallet if you drive.
But this is not solely an American phenomenon. Gas prices are high around the globe. People in Hong Kong are paying $10 a gallon. In Norway and Denmark, they`re paying more than $9 a gallon.
Well, now there are a number of factors, of course, that are causing these soaring prices in the United States. First, prices have been high since December. Second, Russia`s invasion of Ukraine and the resulting sanctions. Third, U.S. oil production has been slow and has been down since 2019. And, finally, more people are driving, which means higher demand for gas.
As we struggle, some of the oil giants reported record profits in the first quarter, Shell $9.1 billion, BP $6.2 billion, Exxon $5.5 billion. The people running these companies are also ranking raking in the big bucks. According to “The Guardian,” 28 major oil and gas companies such as Shell Exxon, BP, and Marathon Petroleum, gave out $394 million in total to their chief executives last year.
This morning, President Biden sent a letter to the oil companies demanding that they increase production, and, if they don`t, he would use all reasonable and appropriate federal government tools and emergency authorities to increase refinery capacity and output in the near term.
Bloomberg is reporting that Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon is crafting a plan that would hit oil companies with a new surtax if their profit margin is higher than 10 percent.
Earlier today, the Federal Reserve raised interest rates by three-quarters- of-a-point in an attempt to tame inflation.
With me now, Lindsay Owens, executive director of the Groundwork Collaborative.
[19:55:01]
And thank you for being here, Ms. Owens.
I know we`re having some connection issues. So, I think you might be on the phone.
Let`s start backwards here.
The Ron Wyden plan, that would have to pass the Senate without being filibustered. That seems like that ain`t going nowhere. What are the chances a surtax — let`s just say a surtax in our theoretical world could pass, which I don`t think it can, what would it do?
LINDSAY OWENS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GROUNDWORK COLLABORATIVE: Yes, look, I think moving forward with an excess profits tax or a windfall profits tax, like Senator Wyden has proposed, is a really smart move.
And we just saw the United Kingdom move forward with one. It says, look, these windfall taxes — or — sorry — these windfall profits, these really exorbitant profits that the big oil companies and the refineries have been making since the war in Ukraine, we`re going to tax those at a higher level.
We`re going to say, look, you might want to profiteer, but it`s going to be a lot less lucrative, because we`re going to ship those winnings back to the Treasury Department. And then what you can do with the revenue from a windfall profits tax — and this piece is just really important — is you can take it and ship it back to consumers as effectively rebates to help them cover those rising costs.
REID: Well, if there was a Republican president, Republicans might be willing to do that.
But if you really think they`re going to do that, with Joe Biden sitting in the White house, when they can run on inflation as their number one issue, I got a bridge to sell everybody who thinks that that`s ever going to happen.
But let`s move on to the next thing, because President Biden has gone pretty hard, and Democrats have, against these oil companies, who truly are profit-taking. Here`s back in April. Democrats did hold a hearing on price gouging, and CEOs denied any responsibility.
Here`s how that looked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our shareholders expect us to operate in a way that delivers a return on capital invested, while providing additional value in the form of cash returns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No single company sets the price of oil or gasoline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shell does not set or control the price that consumers pay.
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D-IL): Their global CEO, Bernard Looney, recently stated — and I quote — that BP is literally, he says, “literally a cash machine when oil prices are at this level.”
REP. RAUL RUIZ (D-CA): Gas prices need to go down. And while the rest of America is trying to make this happen, you all are trying to increase your record profits.
REP. KIM SCHRIER (D-WA): Prices don`t have to be this high. You all can make decisions today that will help our constituents tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Oil companies are a cash machine when oil prices are at this level. That`s true.
What percentage of the problem are these CEOs, these companies that are profit-taking at the expense of the consumer?
OWENS: Yes, I think the real issue here is that companies are not willing to lift a finger to bring more production online.
The reason for that is, it costs money to refine more oil. It costs money to get refineries up online. It costs money to produce more oil. They`re not interested in spending that money, if they can sit back, kick their feet up, and just print money profiting off the shortages that we`re seeing because of the war in Ukraine.
And so what we have got is companies with no incentive to bring more oil online, no interest in investing in additional infrastructure, and, instead, just really enjoying these really eye-popping profits in this moment.
So it`s a real pickle for the Biden administration. And he tried — the president, he tried to address this head on today by sending a letter to all of the big refinery CEOs. These are the folks who turn the crude oil into gas. And he said, look, the last time that crude oil was selling at $120 a barrel, in March, gas prices were about 75 cents lower and diesel prices were about 90 cents lower.
The thing that explains that 75-cent increase in that 90-cent increase is these refinery margins. And he`s pleading with the refineries to bring more capacity online and stop prioritizing these treble margins where — they`re seeing since the war in Ukraine, and instead build out more capacity to meet demand to bring prices down.
REID: Is there a way? Because people tend to blame President Biden, like he`s somehow making gas prices high.
Is there some way he can make them do it? Is there some executive power he has to force more production or to force them to stop eating up all the profits and stop gouging the public?
OWENS: Yes, I mean, I think his actions are relatively limited.
But he`s got his jawboning option, right, which he used today with his letter. He`s also got the DPA, the Defense Production Act…
REID: Yes.
OWENS: … in hope of bringing more oil online. He`s tapped the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. He`s doing some of the things that need to be done here.
But refiners are going to have to play along.
REID: They`re going to have to.
And if they don`t, how much higher could they go, the prices?
OWENS: Yes, I certainly don`t want not to make any more predictions.
REID: Yes.
OWENS: But I think we are at a really critical and dangerous period, where we have got to take the energy price increases…
REID: Yes.
OWENS: .. that we`re seeing seriously…
REID: Yes.
OWENS: … or we could — we could really start to get out of control here.
REID: Indeed.
Lindsay Owens, thank you very much.
That is tonight`s REIDOUT.
“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts now.