Updated
Summary
Interview With New York City Mayor Eric Adams. Interview with USAID Administrator Samantha Power.
Transcript
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: I truly think that a lot of people have moved on.
Michelle Goldberg, Greg Bluestein, thank you both.
That is “ALL IN” on this Tuesday night.
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend. Much appreciated.
And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Happy to have you here.
It`s been an intense news day.
President Biden, today, used the word “genocide” for the first time to describe Vladimir Putin`s aims in his war in Ukraine. That is a hefty charge for an American president to make. But President Biden said that today.
The head of USAID, one of our country`s most eloquent diplomatic heavyweights, Samantha Power, is going to be here live tonight as our guest to talk about that and more.
Today, the lieutenant governor of New York state resigned after he was arrested this morning and charged with multiple federal felony corruption charges.
Not to be outdone, the attorney general of the state of South Dakota was impeached today and forced out of office that way after he killed a man in a vehicular hit and run and then just kept driving.
Oklahoma today passed a new total ban on abortion that threatens doctors who perform abortion with a decade in jail.
It`s been an intense news day. We`re going to get to all those stories tonight and more. But we begin tonight in the nation`s largest city with a developing story, because there is still very much alive manhunt underway right now for the person responsible for this morning`s mass shooting on a New York City subway train.
The NYPD has just announced this evening they have a person of interest in the investigation into the shooting. His name is Frank James. He`s 62 years old. He is described as having addresses in Wisconsin and in Philadelphia. It`s not known what links has to New York City.
There are also not saying if they believe this man is, in fact, the shooter. From this morning of the New York city subway. But he is apparently listed as the person who rented this U-Haul vehicle which the NYPD recovered in Brooklyn earlier tonight.
A key for that U-Haul rental was apparently found at the scene of the shooting. Again, this man, Frank James, is apparently the person who rented that vehicle.
Again, he is only described as a person of interest at this time. They are not describing him explicitly as a suspect. The NYPD is asking anybody with knowledge of his whereabouts to please come forward with that information.
The NYPD is also said that this man, Mr. James, made some concerning posts on social media prior to the attack, posts that were about New York City. Some of which apparently focus on New York City`s mayor, Eric Adams. We don`t know exactly what he said about the mayor, but his remarks about the mayor were described as concerning and the NYPD did announce tonight that in response to those comments on social media by this man who was described as a portion of interest related to the shooting, they have, they say, tightened the mayor`s security detail tonight out of an abundance of caution.
New York City`s new mayor is Eric Adams. He`s going to join us here live in just a moment. But as I said, this is still a very live investigation. A shooter still at large, there`s still a lot we do not know.
We were told by police and by reporting from the scene is that it was just before a 8:24 a.m. this morning. It was Manhattan-bound subway train in Brooklyn, just before the train was about to enter a station at 36 Street in the neighborhood of Sunset Park in Brooklyn. An individual who is on board the train, put on what the NYPD says appeared to be a gas mask. Witnesses tell the NYPD that the suspect then tossed two smoke grenades which filled the train car would smoke.
Two senior law officials told MSNBC that those bags and the contents are believed to be tied to the suspect. You can see some of what appears to be fireworks there, these bags contain more smoke grenades that were not detonated, commercial grade fireworks and some fuses. Again, these are thought to be linked to the suspect, they were recovered at the scene.
According to police after he put on a gas mask and he threw those smoke grenades, the suspect then started shooting. He fired a Glock 17, 9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun at least 33 times. They say 33 times, because 33 discharge shell casings were found at the scene, along with a nine millimeter pistol which appears to have jammed and a number of high capacity magazines, including one that was inserted in the gun when they found it.
You can see from the cell phone video during the attack that during the shooting, the door between cars, you see the car — the door in the distance there at the end of the car, it appears to have been locked. But the door to get out of the car was also locked, it trap the people you see here close to the shooter and the smoke. It`s horrifying to think about.
The New York City Fire Department handled the emergency medical response this morning. They tell us it was 23 people who were injured in the attack.
[21:05:03]
Ten of those people were shot, 13 were otherwise injured including by smoke inhalation and various other injuries. Amazingly, nobody`s injuries are considered life-threatening from this attack, which is just astonishing given what we have seen from the scene.
NYU Langone Hospital says tonight that 13 — excuse me — 16 patients they treated related to this attack have been discharged already. They have five patients remaining in their care who they say are in stable condition. New York Presbyterian say that they are still treating three people from today`s attack. Those are all considered to be in stable condition.
Again, it`s a miracle that nobody`s injuries from this attack are considered to be life-threatening. The police say they have not started investigating this incident as an act of terrorism, they say they do not have any indication about potential motivations for the shooter. They say they are not ruling out terrorism but they don`t have any information, they don`t have enough information to ascribe any sort of motive.
Regardless of the motive, this act definitely did terrorize the people of New York today.
Joining us now is New York City Mayor Eric Adams. He joins us live from Gracie Mansion.
Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for making time to be here, I know this is a really intense time.
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK CITY: Thank you, Rachel. And you are right, that although we have not made an official determination of the motive of this horrific act, it`s clear that there was a intention to bring terror into our subway system, and terrorize the lives of those innocent New Yorkers who are merely commuting, carrying out their daily business in the city.
And we will catch this person, as I stated this person this morning, and I want to thank the combination of cities, state and federal agencies that are collaborating, information sharing to zoom in on him.
MADDOW: Within the past couple of hours, we have had the police named a person of interest that they have identified. It`s a 62-year-old man who apparently rented this U-Haul vehicle into Philadelphia. They say he has addresses in Philadelphia and Wisconsin. It`s not known whether he has any sort of link to New York.
But they also described that he may have made social media postings including some that were concerning postings about you.
Can you tell us — can you shed any further light on that if you know anything about the suspect or about his connection to the case, his potential threats to yourself, Mr. Mayor?
ADAMS: This moment, when we have an investigation, this young and you — there are two goals here that we do not want to interfere with. Number one is to apprehend him and that is why the police department made the decision to release a name and an image because he is a person of interest. Number two, not to danger the prosecution if this is the person, we do not want to do anything and release evidence or information that is going to hurt the prosecution of the person responsible for the shootings.
It is crucial to us that we move at a very methodical level, the police department is excellent in carrying out this function. So, at this time, only the information at the police department released is something that they want public, and the rest, they want to hold on to, to make sure this person is apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
MADDOW: Mr. Mayor, I think that one of the things that went through a lot of people`s minds who know New York city enough to know about the neighborhood in which this happened, particularly because of hate crimes, particularly because of anti-Asian hate crimes, this neighborhood, where this happen, Sunset Park is a heavily immigrant neighborhood, large Asian population, a lot of other immigrant populations in that neighborhood.
As you know, Brooklyn is perhaps the most ethnically and nationally racially diverse place in the entire world.
Is there any indication, or can you tell us anything, anywhere is this might have been ethnically motivated, might have been a target of hate crime, or hate motivated attack? I think people surmise that that might be a possibility given the location of this, but we don`t have anything to go on.
ADAMS: One thing about this city is, it`s difficult to go into any neighborhood that you`re not going to find a level of diversity, particularly in Brooklyn. I was as a former Brooklyn borough president, it was a number that I often talked about, 47 percent a Brooklyn speak another in language other than English at home. This is really what you`ll see all over New York City for those who are not familiar with the city.
We do not see any evident, thus far, of that — that the perpetrator was attempting to flee carry out his act based on immigrant population. Again, this investigation is new. And we are going to be thorough to look at all possibilities to determine exactly what motivated such a real sick act on innocent people.
[21:10:09]
MADDOW: Are you frustrated, Mr. Mayor, that there does not appear to have been any surveillance footage from the station, that there doesn`t seem to appear to have been, for whatever reason, any working surveillance cameras at the site of the shooting? We also know that there are no transit police officers in the station where this happened. Those factors, obviously, are a hindrance to the investigation. They may have been a hindrance to stopping the crime before it got as bad as it did.
Are you frustrated by those factors, that have emerged today since the crime happened?
ADAMS: No, there`s no level of frustration that has settled in. We are communicating with the MTA who the agency is in charge of the cameras. We are communicating with them to identify what happened, what are the sole purposes for having cameras in the subway system is to identify acts like this, and we are getting to a point what we want to be — they have been extremely cooperative.
And the transit police personnel, they have been very covering the system since January 6th to this weekend, we have conducted over 265,000 subways inspections, complementing the patrol, and having also done inspections, really zooming in on — assuring the omnipresence the best needed throughout the entire system.
MADDOW: New York City Mayor Eric Adams — Mr. Mayor, first, I know that you are in isolation at Gracie mansion now because your recent COVID diagnosis. We wish you the best, you see well sir, and I hope that you are well, and recover quickly. And good luck with this investigation as they intend to find this person of interest and solve this crime. Thank you, sir.
ADAMS: Thank you.
MADDOW: All right. As I mentioned there at the top, the basics are that the New York police have identified a person of interest, not a suspect, but a person of interest in conjunction with this mass shooting on a New York City subway. Ten people were shot, more than a dozen other people injured in other ways in this attack.
They are searching for the perpetrator still tonight. We will get you more information on this as we know more. Obviously, and alive and developing situation like this, you never know when developments are going to arise, but we will let you know when we have them.
In the meantime, we have a lot to get here to tonight. As I mentioned, the director of USAID, Samantha Power, one of the nations eloquent, long- standing, and bloody-minded diplomat in terms of being hard-nosed about human rights and about war crimes and about the threat of genocide, Samantha Power, one of the nation`s most distinguished diplomats is going to be here light joining us live. She`s the former ambassador to the United Nations. She runs USAID. She will be with us after the break.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:17:40]
MADDOW: One of the easy, and I think, basically false cliches about the media, about the news media, is that the news used to be way better. That the news used to not be controversial, that the U.S. used to be always spoken in a calm, authoritative voice with no snark, and no attitude, and everybody agreed, it was just the facts. That`s as far as it went.
You hear that kind of facile cliche about what the news used to be. You hear it all the time. You hear even very smart people assert that that was true about the media and the good old days, can we just go back to that?
The problem with that is that if you actually go back and listen to what the news was like, in the good old days, it blows that thesis out of the water almost instantly. Take for example the dripping sarcasm in this news reel from the aforementioned good old days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peaceful Finland, that distant northern country of lakes and fjords, of sailing ships and summer bathing beaches, has been invaded and bombed. Long crisis of apparently futile negotiation with Moscow has ended an attack by overwhelming power. The reason for this, the Soviet, the nation of some 180 million, has been threatened by the 4 millions in Finland.
The huge Russian air force, probably the biggest in the world, fears for its very existence. And the red feet is no doubt being menaced by Finland`s two or three warships. What are the real facts?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: The good old days of voice of God authoritative news with no snark, right? The massive Russian navy — what does he say? Greatly menaced by Finland`s two or three warships. The 180 million Soviet people gravely threatened by the 4 million people who live in Finland. The gigantic Soviet army, the largest air force in the world, threatened to its core by the tiny nation next door, a nation that didn`t have any air force at all.
That was a 1939 British news reel, just dripping with sarcasm, as to why on Earth the Soviet Union felt like it could convince anybody that the reason it needed to invade the neighboring nation of Finland was because it was a threat to it, when Finland obviously was no threat.
[21:20:03]
I mean, the Soviet Union, it just like what Putin is claiming about Ukraine now, the Soviet Union claim that they were some mortal danger from the much, much smaller country on their border, this country with a much, much slower military, a country that was doing nothing at all to menace its much larger neighbor to the east.
Just like what Putin is saying about Ukraine, the Soviet Union said the same thing about Finland in 1939. But the Soviet army did invade Finland, in late 1939. And it appears that their plan was to topple the government in Finland, probably a matter of a few days. They thought it would not be hard.
The Soviet military went in by land, by sea, and by air. They used about 100,000 troops, which was huge. Their military just dwarfed the military force that the fans had to defend themselves.
And their plan was that Soviet Union would basically just take Finland. And stall their own puppet, pro-Soviet government, or maybe just even just annex Finland, make Finland part of the USSR. Erase it as a sovereign country.
Again, they didn`t think that it would be hard. They think it would take a few days. It did not work that way. The Finns, in 1939, fought them off furiously. I mean, at the time, there were 4 million — less than 4 million people in Finland. 180 million people in the Soviet Union, and proportionate militaries to those populations, the Finns were outnumbered, they were wildly outgunned. But they were also resourceful, they were fighting on their home turf, and there were more motivated than you could possibly imagine. They were defending their homes.
That was called the Winter War. It started when the Soviets invaded in late 1939. I`m sure Stalin thought his forces would be home for the New Year. Instead, it stretched on into 1940. The Finns were this remarkable white winter camouflage. They fought on skis and snowshoes. And they just cut down the invading Soviet forces.
Finland, in fact, didn`t have its own air force at all. But they still managed to shoot down dozens of soviet air planes. In one famous battle in central Finland, it was 6,000 Finnish troops versus more than 20,000 Soviet troops. And the Finns just routed them, despite being outnumbered to such a massive extent.
The Soviets suffered huge casualties, hundreds of thousands of casualties ultimately in their Finland invasion. The Western world was shocked. The Western world have thought that the soviets would`ve won in just a few days too. I mean, the Soviets thought that. Everybody else looking in thought that.
When the Finns put up this unexpected and incredibly effective resistance, they became a cause celebre all over the United States. Even though the government didn`t send them as much practical help as much they wanted, we still cheered them on.
In the end, although it didn`t go the way he expected to in the beginning, Stalin regrouped, he sent in not another hundred thousand Soviet troops, but more like half 1 million Soviet troops to get the job done. The population of Finland was less than 4 million people in the whole country. Stalin had to fund send in half 1 million troops to finish the invasion in the end.
But the Finns still fought. They held their ground for weeks, even after the half million Soviet troops arrived in that second wave of the invasion. The Finns were able to hold on, ultimately, for more than 100 days.
And in the end, it didn`t. The Finnish government was not toppled. They negotiated a peace with the Soviets. And then negotiated settlement was bad for Finland, but it was nowhere near as bad as what Stalin had intended for when he invaded in the first place and just thought he would run roughshod over the place.
In the negotiated settlement that ended that Winter War, Finland did have to cede about 10 percent of its territory to the Soviets, which is bad. But, they stayed Finland. They kept their independence as a nation. They kept their sovereignty. They kept their way of government. The even got to keep their army. They got to stay who they are.
And they also never forgot it. And that history is here to help now. That history is newly relevant now, not just because it echoes. Not just because the Finns holding off the Soviet invading force feels like history, cheering from 83 years back for the Ukrainians today holding off the Russian invading forces.
I mean, it`s prevalent today not only because of those historical echoes. Beyond that, it`s also directly relevant because Finland has never stopped preparing for Russia to invade them again. And because Russia invaded Ukraine, support has spiked in Finland and also in neighboring Sweden, for those two countries to now join NATO.
[21:25:07]
They never wanted to before. But now they do. One of the million different contradictory justifications Putin`s given to why he needed to invade Ukraine, when you often hear parroted by people in this country apologizing for Biden, is this idea that Putin felt cramped by NATO. That too many countries to the west of Russia had joined NATO, they were too close to Russian borders. So he had to invade Ukraine to ensure that Ukraine would never join NATO.
He`s made this case that the reason for the war, one reason for this invasion, is that Putin can stand the feeling of having any NATO countries right up against Russia`s borders.
Well, congratulations, Mr. Putin. Guess what you got for invading Ukraine? Even a Finland alone joins NATO, you will just more than double the amount of Russian land border with NATO countries. Well done.
Sweden`s ruling party, the Social Democrats, they`ve always been against Sweden joining NATO, as has the Swedish public. But now both the Swedish public and that ruling party in Sweden have changed their minds.
Russia`s adventures in invading Ukraine have shown, without a doubt, that Putin feels free to invade his neighbor`s that are not NATO countries. So, it makes sense that all of Russia`s neighbors now might want to become NATO countries just to protect themselves.
And Sweden`s social Democratic Party put out a statement yesterday that said, quote, when Russia invaded Ukraine, Sweden security position changed fundamentally. So even though they have always been opposed to Sweden joining NATO, they are now expected to favorite and the Swedish government is expected to decide on applying for NATO membership as soon as the summer, even sooner than that. It looks like Finland is going to make its request to join. And NATO will say yes when these countries ask.
One recent poll in Finland shows that even though, just a couple of years ago, a majority of the Finnish public did not want their country to join NATO, since Putin invaded Ukraine, they are sure in favor of it now. The Finnish people are now 68 percent in favor of joining, and that number spikes to 77 percent in favor of joining, if the Finish government studies the issue and decides to recommend it.
Well, next week, the Finish government is going to present a security review on this issue to their parliament. A recent survey of members of the Finnish parliament says that of the 200 MPs they`ve got, the 200 members of parliament, 194 are in favor of Finland joining NATO.
That`s 194 in favor, six against, which means the Finnish government is going to recommend that they join NATO. And the Finnish public is going to support them. And it is going to pass. And it is going to pass soon, apparently.
A former prime minister of Finland tells the “AFP” this week that it is a foregone conclusion that Finland will request NATO membership, and the requests will happen within the next few weeks. It will happen in time for the next NATO summit in June.
Now, Russia has responded by threatening that there`s going to be consequences if that happens — consequences, including military consequences, if two new nations join NATO. But these aren`t just two countries. I mean, particularly Finland.
Since the Winter War in 1940, Finland has been getting ready for those kinds of threats from this country that invaded them before. And at least now is implicitly threatening that they might do it again. Finland is actually remarkably ready for those threats.
In Finland, the country maintain secure stockpiles of at least a six month supply of all major food grains, things like oats, and wheat, they also maintain a six month stockpile of all major fuel supplies. They require all pharmaceutical companies in Finland to keep secure stockpiles of several months worth of all major imported drugs.
Every building above a certain size and Finland is required to have a bomb shelter. That is on top of a national plan that repurposes underground parking garage, ice rinks, and pools into civilian shelters in the event of an invasion.
And the country`s capital, in Helsinki, they have built 10 million square meters of underground space, underneath Helsinki proper. It includes — it`s not just like shelters and subway stations. It`s an art museum, and a church, and a huge swimming complex.
And a mall, and a go carting track! You know, you might need it. Also, a huge drinking water reservoir. All underground, all beneath the capital city of Helsinki, for safety.
One former defense minister in Finland telling “The Financial Times” this week how, quote, detailed planning is in place for how to handle an invasion, including the deployment of fighter jets to remote roads around the country, the laying of mines in key shipping lanes, the preparation of land defenses such as blowing up bridges.
[21:30:07]
He says, quote, all armed forces headquarters are located in hillsides under 30 to 40 meters of granite.
So they are ready. And here we have Russia failing in Ukraine. They thought they would run roughshod over Ukraine, they thought they would take Kyiv within days. They thought they would decapitate the Ukrainian government and take over the country in less than a week.
It is now 47 thing days after this, there continue to pound away having failed in all of their efforts thus far. Their new efforts or that they are trying to kill as many civilians as possible, trying to destroy as much civilian infrastructure in the country as they can while trying to salvage something that they can tell their own people was a win.
At one level, this is all supposedly because Putin is so sensitive about having NATO get so closer to Russia`s borders. In the next few weeks, it is very likely that Russia is about to get a new country in NATO with which it shares an 830-mile long border.
Finland is a country that has humiliated the Soviet Union, the predecessor of Russia, in wartime before. Finland had spent the subsequent 80-plus years making themselves phenomenally resilient for any future Russian threat and preparing to repulse the next Russian attack, which they fully, fully expect. How is that going to work out? And again, this is going to come to fruition, this is all going to come to a head within the next few weeks.
United States is the leading military force in NATO. How should the United States be preparing for these eventualities?
Today, the United States president for the first time said that would Putin is trying to do in Ukraine`s commit genocide against the Ukrainian people. It means that he has accused Vladimir Putin of trying to wipe out the Ukrainian people as a people. That is a huge statement from the American president, especially because that kind of determination from the U.S. government brings with it some very serious responsibilities to respond.
Last night, we reported here the Russian opposition figure Volodymyr Kara- Murza had been arrested in Russia after doing an interview with Ali Velshi here on almost NBC, and another with CNN about the Russian war in Ukraine. As of last night, as we reported, Vladimir Kara-Murza`s whereabouts were unknown. Today, Russian authorities say they are holding him for a 15 days for disobeying police commands, much as anybody is expecting to see him after 15 days, but that is what the Russian authorities are saying they`re going to do.
Today is the second day since unconfirmed reports surfaced in Ukraine that Russian forces had used a chemical of some kind in an attack on Ukrainian forces and civilians in the city of Mariupol. Those reports remain unconfirmed today, but even those unconfirmed reports are prompting new questions for the United States and other allies of Ukraine hostilities wants will be of those reports are confirmed, or if Russia otherwise does make some sort of moved to start using chemical or biological agents as their traditional military efforts. Again, they have failed.
Samantha Power started her career as a journalist and a war correspondent. She won the Pulitzer Prize for their reporting on genocide, which he called a problem from hell. She then became a senior adviser to candidate Obama, and then President Obama. President Obama then named her America`s ambassador to the United Nations.
Samantha Power now serves President Biden as the head of USAID, which is the part of the U.S. government that administers civilian aid around the world. She had multiple trips the nations bordering in Ukraine in recent weeks. She`s going to join us here live, next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:38:39]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your family budget, your ability to fill up your tank, none of it should hinge on whether a dictator declares war and commits genocide half a world away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Whether a dictator declares war and commits genocide half a world away. President Biden speaking this afternoon. It`s the first time he`s use that word, genocide, to describe the war in Ukraine.
The president of the United States calling something a genocide is a big deal. Last year you might remember President Biden making huge headlines when he became the first U.S. president to recognize the Armenian genocide more than a century after it happened.
One of the people who`s been intimately involved in those kind of decisions about those kind of important nomenclature within the U.S. government over years is Samantha Power. In 2002, she wrote a Pulitzer Prize-winning book on the subject called “A Problem From Hell: America and the Age of Genocide”. By 2013, President Biden named her the ambassador to the United Nations. When President Biden took office, he chose her to lead USAID, which is the part of the U.S. government that gives assistance to civilian populations who need help overseas.
Samantha Power, in that role, had just returned from her third trip to the Ukrainian border since the war started. She was just in Moldova and Slovakia, where she`s been assisting with the ongoing refugee crisis on the ground there.
Administrator Samantha Power joins us live now.
[21:40:02]
Madam Administrator, thank you so much for being here. It`s really nice to see you
SAMANTHA POWER, ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Good to see you, Rachel.
MADDOW: So, President Biden did use the word genocide when describing the situation in Ukraine. Use that word for the first time today. I want to get your perspective on what that means for U.S. president to use that word.
Does that change the U.S. posture in this conflict? Does it change our perceived responsibilities?
POWER: Well, let me just say that from the beginning of the war, we`ve seen two things — extraordinary brutality, and I say that somebody as you said who`s studied mass atrocities and genocide overtime. I mean, I don`t think I was capable of being shocked by the actions of violent, brutal, leaders, and their coldness to human life. But, even though we warned that a lot of this was coming, when you see mothers digging their sons out of wells, or you see bodies being burned to hide evidence, or to just destroy the will of families who have to watch it happen, I mean, it is searing. What is happening is grotesque, and horrific.
At the same time, from the very beginning of the war, in part because Putin projected at least some of his intentions in terms of launching the military invasion and being willing to target civilians and leaders and journalists and NGO, professionals, we`ve been working with the Ukrainians to help documents the atrocities under way, we started on day one when they began hitting residential areas and, you know, hospitals and the like.
So, in terms of the formal legal determination, inevitably that`s going to occur in a courtroom, or through an elaborate legal process, we gather testimonies, combined with intelligence where we can show intent to destroy a national ethnic or religious group — in this case, a national group, as the president said. That will come.
But I think with the president is speaking to is what we all see in their own eyes, which is that it is intentionally trying to wipe out Ukrainians because they are Ukrainians. And I think that was why the determination by him was made. But he was the first to say, look, we have a process, we`re building toward the U.N. commission inquiry that`s been setup. The International Criminal Court has announced its opening an investigation.
So, there will be plenty of venues to gather everything in one place and went through this. But the facts of what we see every day, and above all, what the Ukrainians are experiencing every day are plain as day.
MADDOW: Given the overall point of this war Vladimir Putin, the invasion itself, the shifting justifications he`s given and explanations he`s given for why he`s doing what he`s doing, and the way he`s carried out, do you honestly think that he cares about being accused of war crimes? That he sees any realistic threat of being held accountable for some type of warfare that might be described as criminal, as opposed to the war itself which arguably as criminal as a whole? I mean, it just — it feels like almost an academic determination at this point, especially for a dictator who doesn`t ever plan on leaving power.
POWER: You know, it`s a fair question, for sure, because we see the kind of culture of impunity that he`s embedded himself in for a very long time. And we see the long table and the yes men and the sycophants, and anybody who raises a voice of dissent, whether on TV, or in his inner circle, we don`t see them again.
So, I hear you. But I just offer a personal reflection on that question, which is, I got my start in Bosnia as a kid reporter documenting some of these crimes on the ground. Not with an eye to legal determinations, but just as a simple freelance war correspondent.
And I can say, having interacted with the big guys at that time, the brutal war criminals of that time, the Ratko Mladices, the Slobodan Milosevices, the Radovan Karadzices,you know, names that people aren`t talking about anymore, but they carried themselves in the same way. They sat at those long tables. They cut people off the air who offered dissenting views. You know, they only surround themselves with yes men, oh you`re so smart, President Milosevic, you`re so this, you`re so that.
And I never dreamed that history would turn. And that these three individuals would end up in The Hague, nor did the victims of their atrocities. So it isn`t to say that inevitably history will repeat itself, but it is to say that history is long and sadly, this war every day that it goes on, seven weeks, every day that the circle of economic consequences combined with the prospect of the sort of Damocles in the legal sense or in judicial accountability sense, every day that that doesn`t impact Putin`s calculus in the here and now is one day too many.
[21:45:17]
So, we all understand that, but I think that just because he`s out a long table now and looking like he`s standing immune to the consequences of this brutality, I think that could prove shortsighted.
MADDOW: Oh let me ask you about what we just heard from the Ukrainian military. I know that you came back from the Moldova on the Ukrainian border. Ukrainian military this is — gave a unusual warning about Moldova. They warned that Russia, they believe that Russia may be able to do something in Moldova that they`re going to blame on Ukraine, to justify Russia expanding the war and invading that country too. Basically they are warning that Russia`s looking for a fake justification to keep moving, to keep expanding the war into neighboring countries that they`ve had their eye on for a while.
What do you make of those claims Ukraine and from the overall threat that Putin doesn`t plan on containing this in Ukraine, despite the damage he`s done there?
POWER: Well, again, one would never wish to underestimate either Putin`s brutality or the counterproductive decisions that he can make in order to setback his own war effort, right? I mean, he has not handled this well and created a theater when his troops are not managing in the theater that they are in other than committing atrocities, you know, you can`t rule that out.
But I will tell you the same thing I told the Moldovan president and President Biden, and everyone on the team I conveyed, which is, at this point, we see no evidence of plans of that nature. And we are watching very carefully if you are Moldovan, and you`re in a small country of under 3 million people, already part of your country has been occupied by Russian forces, unjustly, your sovereignty has been undermined — you should know your led by an amazing pair of female president and prime minister to technocrat anti-corruption, reformers who want to integrate Moldova into Europe, Putin hates that, of course. And they have taken great strides to fight oligarchs and corruption, Putin hates that too.
So there`s a jitteriness, understandably, in Moldova. And, again, we can`t rule anything like that out given that Putin clearly has ambitions to recreate some world that no longer exists anymore and to impede progress toward European integration for young people and others who want the democratic freedoms, the rule of law that so many of us cherish.
And so, can`t rule it out, not seeing it at the moment, certainly work with the Moldovan government right now is aimed, focusing on their economic security and stability because they have lost export markets, import markets, they`re fuel prices are up 360 percent, I you can believe it since the war started. So, this is a government that is doing all the right things and already the impact of this war, while on a part of any new military dimension to it is really jeopardizing an incredibly important journey that they are on toward democratic progress.
MADDOW: Samantha Power, the head of the U.S. Agency for International Development, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations — it`s really nice of you to take time to be here, especially with the intensity of your work right now and your travels. Thanks for being here.
POWER: Of course. Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: We`ve got more news ahead tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:53:27]
ADDOW: New York state is no stranger to politicians having their careers come to a spectacular, scandalous end. I mean, almost every modern New York political name you can think of up the top of your head, you can say that about Governor Andrew Cuomo, Governor Eliot Spitzer, Governor David Paterson, Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, their wings of state and federal prisons just for New York state legislators, lead legislators and New York congressmen.
Getting arrested is like a right of passage for New York state politicians at this point. But today, we have a new one. Today, the lieutenant governor of New York, Democrat Brian Benjamin resigned as governor which is a job he`s only been in for seven months. His resignation came hours after he appeared in federal court pleading not guilty to a five count felony corruption indictment. Prosecutors are accusing him of pressuring a donor to give thousands of dollars to his campaign and exchange for him hooking the donor up with a state grand. He`s also accused of lying to cover it all up.
Here`s how “The New York Times” describes the sort of medias of the allegations. Quote, prosecutors said that Mr. Benjamin first approach the donor for help in March 2019, months before Mr. Benjamin announced a campaign for state comptroller. Prosecutors say the donor told Mr. Benjamin he was wary of pressuring his network of donors to give me on what they had already contributed to his charity, the Friends of Public School Harlem, a group that organized giveaways of school supplies and groceries to needy families.
Mr. Benjamin replied, quote, let me see what I can do, according to the indictment.
[21:55:03]
And then what he allegedly did was concoct a scheme where this donor would give his campaign the donations. He would find some state funds to give to the charity, in exchange. There`s even a picture of him handing the developer, the donor, one of those giant cardboard checks for $50,000.
Even though this is a fairly simple quid pro quo allegation, this latest criminal scandal involving a New York state politician may not end with him. One important thing to watch here is the indictment hints that this indictment could lead to other indictments that there are other people known and unknown to prosecutors who were involved in extensions of the scheme.
Watch this space.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MADDOW: One thing to watch for tomorrow`s news. Politico.com has reported that Donald Trump`s former White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, and Cipollone`s deputy, are going to testify to the January 6 investigation tomorrow. That will be behind closed doors. But with players that important to the story giving testimony, sometimes that shakes lose some news. So, we`ll have eyes open for that tomorrow. I will see right here tomorrow night.
Now it`s time for “THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL”
Good evening, Lawrence.