Updated
Summary
Former January 6th Committee staffer alleged White House switchboard called rioter on January 6th. January 6th Committee to feature clips from upcoming Roger Stone documentary. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas` wife to speak to January 6th Committee over her alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election result. State Senator Jason Pizzo of Florida joins Katie Phang to talk about the class action lawsuit that accuses Ron DeSantis of a premeditated, fraudulent, and illegal scheme. Former RNC chair Michael Steele joins Katie Phang to talk about the House GOP leaders` struggling to define new party agenda.
Transcript
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First title in 26 years. But none of it came easy. People counting you out. Heck, I know something about being counted out. And —
(LAUGHTER)
BIDEN: I know in Georgia you show up when it counts.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: President Joe Biden was the first Democrat to win Georgia since 1992.
Thank you for letting us into your homes today during these extraordinary times. We are grateful. “THE BEAT” with Katie Phang in for Ari Melber starts right now.
Hi, Katie.
KATIE PHANG, MSNBC ANCHOR: Hi, Nicolle. Thanks so much. And I`d like to welcome everyone to THE BEAT. I`m Katie Phang in for Ari Melber.
Tonight, breaking news on the January 6th Committee, and new evidence regarding Roger Stone. Plus, our live interview with the Florida lawmaker who is suing Ron DeSantis over that cruel migrant stunt. And the shocking video of police leaving a handcuffed woman inside of a car as it`s hit by a train.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s on the track. Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, my god. Oh, my god.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Incredibly she survived, and we`re going to tell you what`s happening to the police that left her there inside of that car. But we start today with Roger Stone and the upcoming January 6th Committee hearing.
“The Washington Post” reporting that Wednesday`s hearing will use clips from the upcoming Roger Stone documentary. The filmmakers now complying with the committee subpoena after first balking. The documentary has footage of Stone from over a period of two years, including trips he took to Washington, D.C. for the Stop the Steal rallies and from his post at the Willard Hotel on January 6th. It also includes comments from Stone made months before the insurrection, predicting violent clashes.
In a moment, I`m going to talk to one of the reporter who broke this news. This comes as we get new revelations from former GOP Congressman Denver Riggleman who worked as a staffer for the January 6th Committee. Riggleman telling “60 Minutes,” someone operating the White House switchboard placed a call to a rioter on January 6th while the riot was ongoing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R), FORMER VIRGINIA REPRESENTATIVE: You get a real aha moment when you see that the White House switchboard had connected to a rioter`s phone while it`s happening. That`s a pretty big aha moment. You get a aha —
BILL WHITAKER, CBS “60 MINUTES” CORRESPONDENT: Wait a minute, someone in the White House was calling one of the rioters while the riot was going on?
RIGGLEMAN: On January 6th. Absolutely.
WHITAKER: And you know who both ends of that call?
RIGGLEMAN: I only know one end of that call. I don`t know the White House end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Committee members downplaying the significance of the call, and a committee spokesperson saying, quote, “Since Riggleman`s departure from the committee, the committee has run down all the leads and digested and analyzed all of the information that arose from his work.”
Also developing, the committee issuing a subpoena to the top Republican in Wisconsin`s state assembly Robin Vos. Vos revealing over the summer Trump called him this past July asking him to alter the Wisconsin election results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When`s the last time you talked to the former president, President Trump.
ROBIN VOS (R), WISCONSIN STATE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER: Within the last week?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Last week?
VOS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Before or after he tweeted about you?
VOS: Before.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was that conversation like?
VOS: You know, it`s one of those — it`s very consistent. He makes his case, which I respect. He would like us to do something different in Wisconsin. I explained that it`s not allowed under the Constitution. He has a different opinion, then he put the tweet out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Vos is currently suing to block the committee`s subpoena, but the committee`s subpoena to him suggesting it`s interested in ongoing activities Trump may be undertaking right now to undermine elections.
Joining me now is former U.S. acting solicitor general Neal Katyal and “Washington Post” congressional reporter Jacqueline Alemany.
Neal, I`d like to start with you. Your thoughts about a call placed from the White House switchboard to a rioter on January 6th during the riot. CNN reporting that the cell phone belonged to a rioter who pled guilty to entering and illegally demonstrating inside the Capitol.
But, Neal, the phone call isn`t mentioned in the any of his court documents or in his sentencing. Could this nine-second call ultimately end up being much ado about nothing?
NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL: It very well could. I think, you know, one has to be really careful in any law enforcement investigation to rely on partial information, and seems like the source here was — just had partial information. It might actually turn out to be significant, but I think the person that we do know on that end of the call has said he doesn`t remember who he talked to, trying to downplay the significance.
Now these people, you know, many of them are criminals and coup plotter, so you can`t always take them at their word, but to make a criminal case or to, you know, to make a big deal of it in the January 6th hearing, I think we need more evidence and we don`t see it.
[18:05:05]
And, you know, I`ve seen this sometimes when people leave the government. They know one thing, but they don`t know the whole thing. And it feels more important than it actually is. It could be but everyone should catch their breath.
PHANG: And so, Jackie, you reported on the news today that we`re going to see some Roger Stone documentary clips played on Wednesday at the next 1/6 public hearing. We obviously know Roger Stone has that bromance with Donald Trump, but why is there a focus by the 1/6 committee on these particular documentary clips? Like what type of information is it going to provide in terms of insight for the pending investigation?
JACKIE ALEMANY, WASHINGTON POST CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, Katie, well, our sources have told us today that the selection of potential clips that will be used on Wednesday have yet to be finalized but in terms of where they sit thematically they`re likely to focus on how Stone, along with former Trump chief strategist Steve Bannon and other Trump associates, planned on declaring victory regardless of the outcome of the 2020 election, regardless of the will of the people.
One of the clips that our sources tell us the committee is interested and potentially using is a clip of Stone after a rally that happened on November 2nd for Doug Collins, a former congressman, that was two days before the actual election where Stone said, you know, screw the violence – – screw voting, let`s get right to the violence. Shoot to kill. Seen an Antifa, shoot to kill. So these documentary filmmakers got two years` worth of footage from 2019 to 2021, so the committee really has a plethora of information to choose from at their disposal to show on Wednesday.
PHANG: Jackie, before I go back to Neal, I did want to ask, we actually have a bit of that documentary, where Stone is getting ready to leave the Willard Hotel on that fateful day of January 6th. Let`s take a quick watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER STONE: All right, we`re going to start pulling our stuff together.
BIDEN: May God bless America.
STONE: All right, very good.
BIDEN: May God protect or troops.
STONE: Let`s pack. We`re out of here. As soon as possible. They want to get out of town.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Let`s get out of here as soon as possible. Jackie, what does this tell us about Stone`s involvement as he was obviously trying to high tail it out of D.C. Seems to me like he was running away from something.
ALEMANY: Yes, well, we know that these filmmakers actually attended the Stop the Steal rally with Stone as he travelled to Washington and was in touch with the rioters that caused the violence at the Capitol and that he in part was responsible for encouraging some of that violence and coordinating it.
What we still don`t know and I`m very curious to see, I`m sure as you both are as well, is whether or not Stone was actually directly in touch with the former president on that day and just how closely he was coordinating with the former president or whether or not there were some sort of liaison, a middleman that was relaying those communications.
PHANG: Neal, you and I both kind of nodding along to what Jackie was saying. One of the clips selected by the committee according to Jacqueline`s new reporting has Stone saying, quote, and Jackie referenced it a couple of minutes ago, “F the voting, let`s get right to the violence. Shoot to kill. Seen an Antifa, shoot to kill. F them. Done with this bull blank. I am of course only kidding.”
I mean, Neal, how much does this speak to Stone`s knowledge, this scienter, right, his knowledge about the violence that ensued on 1/6 and his role in inciting it? We want to know what the through line is all the way from Roger Stone to the boots on the ground, all the way to the White House, right?
KATYAL: Yes, I mean, you know, the irony here is that the documentary that Roger Stone did because he thought it would secure his legacy as a shrewd political operator looks like now it`s going to end up potentially securing him a cell in federal prison. And you`re exactly right to point to this notion of the law of scienter or criminal intent. Were you intending to do something? And you`ve got a kind of classic Trumpian double speak here from Roger Stone, where he first says, you know, he wants violence, bring it on. And then he says, of course I`m only kidding.
You know, yes, facially you could say that means he`s kidding. But read in context, and of course you do now have this film crew that`s following him around for weeks after weeks, generating exactly that context, it`s the kind of stuff that you can present to a jury and say, hey, this is criminal intent. And of course this is a guy who`s already been convicted of federal crimes in the past by a jury, so he`s kind of used to this.
The other thing that`s just striking, which I just don`t think we should ever forget, this guy is advising the president of the United States, this whack job, this unconstitutional monstrosity, and you know, forgetting about the coup and everything else, just the idea that this person had any business advising anyone in our U.S. government, let alone our most important person, is just such a fundamental judgment error in the trail of our democracy.
[18:10:17]
PHANG: You know, Neal, I think that Trump surrounded himself almost intentionally by people that are running the gamut from bubbling idiots to criminals.
Jackie, speaking of criminals, obviously that clip has dramatic value. Obviously it shows Roger Stone portending violence on 1/6. But we also know this week, people like Stewart Rhodes from the Oath Keepers, they`re going trial for seditious conspiracy at exactly the same time that this public hearing is going to be taking place.
Do you think that we`re going to see any implication by somebody like Stewart Rhodes, and some of the other Oath Keepers for people like Roger Stone, who we know have a connection?
ALEMANY: Yes, Katie, that is what I think we`re all waiting for the DOJ to eventually hone in on, but they have been doing their investigation a bit differently, as we`ve previously discussed, and have started from the bottom up. Sort of hoping potentially that some of these fringier on the ground insurrectionists, people with less political clout and connections might potentially provide for information or maybe serve as informants down the line, providing some more insight into the levels of coordination that could have existed between the White House and again, these grassroots insurrectionists.
That has yet to pan out, though. But getting up to Stewart Rhodes, someone who has much more visibility than the average insurrectionist, someone who was involved with coordination and did have some contact with people like Roger Stone. We know that Steve Bannon, for example, the night before, January 5th, we`ve previously reported that when he heard that Enrique Tario was going to prison, he wanted to try to raise funds to bail him out.
So I think, you know, as the DOJ is much more quietly, slowly and fastidiously collecting more evidence, we could be seeing charges for people who might have been directly involved with these efforts.
PHANG: Neal, before I have to let you guys go, what does it mean to you that the 1/6 Committee is issuing subpoenas even up until now before maybe allegedly the last public hearing about conversations that Donald Trump had with Robin Vos, as recently as July of 2022? It`s just literally just a few months ago. Where does that significant to you in terms of where the 1/6 Committee`s head is in terms of its investigation?
KATYAL: It could suggest that they think that it`s ongoing and that Trump is actively planning future operations against our democracy, or it could be that that conversation which just happened, you know, a couple of months ago is actually about earlier events, including witness intimidation and the like, which is not something that — or witness tampering, which is not something that Trump is unfamiliar with in his playbook.
But I do find it very striking that this person, Vos, is now going to the federal court because he`s afraid to tell the truth and he`s trying to block his appearance and testimony in Congress, and this is part of a repeated pattern of Trump people, and it starts at the top with Trump himself, afraid to tell the truth, hundreds of times asserting the Fifth Amendment in the New York case, person after person is afraid.
Senator Lindsey Graham in Georgia trying to file a lawsuit to block his testimony. It all starts at the top when Donald Trump, you know, creates this — you know, criticism of rat culture and so on. And, you know, these are duly authorized investigations and you`ve got the former president and all of his, you know, minions saying, I`m afraid to go tell the truth in court or in a congressional proceeding. It is, again, not the way our democracy is supposed to work.
PHANG: I think they`re either afraid or they`re complicit or maybe a combination of both.
Jackie Alemany and Neal Katyal, thank you both for being here this evening.
For more of Neal`s insight and analysis you can also go to MSNBC.com/openingarguments.
Right now, though, I want to bring in former federal prosecutor Barbara McQuade, as we turn to one of my favorite topics, Ginni Thomas, right-wing activist and wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. She`s agreed to an interview with the January 6th Committee following multiple revelations about her actions to subvert the results of the 2020 election, including sending text messages to Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows where she pushed a range of election conspiracies and apparently pressing lawmakers in not only Arizona but also Wisconsin to overturn Trump`s loss.
Former January 6th Committee staffer Riggleman questioned what Justice Clarence Thomas knew about his wife`s activities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIGGLEMAN: As you already know, the executive was involved. We certainly knew the legislative was involved.
[18:15:03]
You know, were there ties directly to the Supreme Court on this? And I think that`s very important to know. Was it possible that Clarence Thomas had no idea of the activities of Ginni Thomas over decades as a Republican activist? Possible. Had no idea about what was going on during the election and Biden and Trump, and her connections to the administration? Possible. Is it probable? I just can`t even get my arms to that being probable. You don`t have any, you know, specific proof of Clarence pushing this, great, that`s fine. Well, how about we find out?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: You know, it`s not an academic question anymore. It`s seen real-life application. Election related cases have come before the United States Supreme Court and Clarence Thomas was the only justice to side with Donald Trump when he asked the Supreme Court to block the release of White House records concerning the 1/6 insurrection.
I`m going get into all of this and more with Barbara McQuade. We`re back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHANG: Back with us is former federal prosecutor Barbara McQuade.
Barb, thanks so much for being here tonight. First, your reaction to a former January 6th Committee member and congressman Denver Riggleman`s comments on Ginni Thomas and the possible role that her husband played.
BARBARA MCQUADE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it`s interesting to see the connection because I think that there are those who would like to keep her identity separate. You know, everything she does she does on her own without any connection to Clarence Thomas. But I think the two identities are really intertwined. There are some who are criticizing the committee for questioning the wife of a sitting Supreme Court justice.
Well, she`s not being targeted simply because she`s the wife of a Supreme Court justice. She`s a person of interest because she has inserted herself into this with the text messages that she sent to Mark Meadows. But it isn`t that she is in a vacuum, that she alone is a person of interest because of those text messages. She`s also a person of interest because of her relationship with Clarence Thomas.
I don`t know that she gets access to Mark Meadows if she`s not the wife of a Supreme Court justice. And the reference she makes to her friend in those text messages which people say is a nickname she has given to Clarence Thomas does I think beg the question of whether he had any involvement on this, you know, knowledge. All people are entitled to have their own separate careers and identities, but to the extent he`s involved or even knowledgeable about these communications going on does raise this question about whether it`s appropriate for him to be deciding cases that bring into play these issues like the one that you just discussed involving communications between the White House that the Supreme Court ultimately allowed to be turned over to the January 6th Committee but that Clarence Thomas tried to block.
So I think there are too many questions about the operation of our government to let this go. So I`m glad to see that they`re following through and asking these questions of her.
PHANG: You know, as mentioned, Ginni Thomas is set to voluntarily appear before the January 6th Committee. Committee member Adam Schiff said this before Ginni agreed to sit for an interview. Take a quick listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We want to know what she knows, what her involvement was in this plot to overturn the election. She has said that she is willing to come in and testify voluntarily. We`re glad to hear that. So we have a range of questions to ask her. Obviously I think the committee will be interested, among other things, whether this was discussed with Justice Thomas given that he was ruling on cases impacting whether we would get some of this information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Barb, if you`re on the select committee, how do you get Ginni Thomas to tell the truth about her involvement? I mean, at a minimum, you have documentary evidence which are the texts between her and Mark Meadows but there`s a lot of us that are skeptical that she`s actually, A, going to appear in the first place, and B, that she`s actually going to tell the truth.
MCQUADE: Well, you know, there`s been some concern that this is a voluntary interview, that she is not coming pursuant to a subpoena and that she won`t be under oath.
[18:20:03]
But I`m not concerned about that, Katie, because lying to congressional investigators is a crime. And so there are some consequences for not telling the truth here. Now it may be that she doesn`t show up or that she invokes her Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, but if she shows up, she really is compelled to tell the truth because of the concern of criminal repercussions if she fails to do so.
You know, lying to a committee is a very dangerous game because of the fact that they are talking to so many people and looking at so many documents. So I imagine she`ll come. If she comes, she`ll answer the questions truthfully, and if there are questions she doesn`t like the answers to, she will refrain from answering them by invoking her Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination.
But when asking these questions, you know, they have been able to talk to a lot of people around these events, and they have these text messages. And so confronting her with those I think will make it difficult for her to win a lot of them.
PHANG: You know, Barb, quickly before I have to let you go, there`s been a lack of information share between the 1/6 Committee and the DOJ. Putting that aside, though, do you think Ginni Thomas` testimony has the potential to have a real impact on any of the myriad of investigations that are going on, not just the 1/6 Committee`s pursuit and its mission?
MCQUADE: Yes, potentially. You know, we know the Justice Department has been investigating these false elector schemes, and Ginni Thomas is right there in Arizona and Wisconsin urging these electors to sign those false certifications. And so I think she is at least a witness in that investigation and depending on her conduct could become a subject or even a target at some point.
PHANG: Barbara McQuade, thank you so much for being here. And we`re actually going to be tracking this very carefully to see if Ginni Thomas shows up. I can`t imagine the invocation of the Fifth Amendment by her. Whew, the eyebrows that would be raised for that. But, Barb, thanks for being here tonight. Appreciate it.
MCQUADE: Thanks, Katie.
PHANG: Coming up, our live interview with the Florida lawmaker who is suing Ron DeSantis over that horrific migrant stunt. And later why Donald Trump is going full QAnon as he preps for a possible run for president. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:26:48]
PHANG: Now to the growing legal fallout over Florida Governor Ron DeSantis` latest cruel politically motivated stunt. In Florida, a new lawsuit from a state lawmaker alleges DeSantis violated Florida law when he transported the migrants from Texas. The law saying that migrants must come from this state, meaning Florida.
There`s also a class action lawsuit in Massachusetts, which accuses DeSantis of a premeditated, fraudulent, and illegal scheme to mislead migrants on to a plane. And in Texas a sheriff is pursuing a criminal investigation.
So these are human beings who are being used as political props, and that is exactly what this is about for Ron DeSantis. It`s politics. It`s not about the safety of the citizens in the state of Florida. And it`s also a way to one-up his troll rival, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, because “The New York Times” is reporting Mr. DeSantis mused to donors last year about Mr. Abbott`s good political fortune to share 1,254 miles of border with Mexico and complained that he didn`t have the same to use as a backdrop.
Joining me now is Florida State Senator Jason Pizzo. He filed that Florida lawsuit against Ron DeSantis, the Department of Transportation and other defendants.
Senator, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Tell us more about your lawsuit and frankly why Ron DeSantis has a very serious problem with his legal defense.
STATE SEN. JASON PIZZO (D-FL): Thank you for having me, Katie. Ours is very simple actually. A law that just recently passed a few months ago in legislative session up in Tallahassee effectively said that only unauthorized aliens from the state, the state being Florida. When you go and you reach into another state and you put people up in motels and pay for food and even haircuts and give them a nice information packet on their connecting flight to Martha`s Vineyard, you are flouting the law that was just passed by your party that basically says that $12 million that`s allotted for this can only be used in Florida.
And this is the ultimate checks and balance. The passion and emotion, the inhumane treatment, all of the adjectives and superlatives to describe how horrible this is, ours is very narrowly tailored. It says, you made the rules of the game and you can`t comply with it. And it`s very — it`s actually very simple.
PHANG: Senator, what about the fact that those two planes that took off in Texas actually touched down in Florida, albeit briefly, but they were in Florida before they ultimately ended up in Martha`s Vineyard? Does that affect the strength of your lawsuit against Ron DeSantis in any way?
PIZZO: I`m sure the state is going to try to say that that`s enough of a nexus or connection to the state of Florida. The federal law is pretty clear, 49 USC 46501, that basically says a plane remains in flight unless it has been forced to land or the other exception is that doors have been opened for disembarkation of passengers. In this case, I think at most perhaps a minor crew change, but no migrants either entered nor exited the plane when it touched down in Florida. It`s not going to be enough for the nexus.
[18:30:00]
PHANG: And, senator, let`s be clear, these were not, quote, unauthorized aliens, which are the subject of that $12 million law that`s been set aside to be able to transport them out of the state of Florida. These were people who entered the United States. We`re going through the immigration process. So, you know, from my reading of your lawsuit, it sounds like Ron DeSantis is in a very serious pickle here.
They`re either unauthorized aliens that he transported into the state of Florida in violation of his own laws or weren`t unauthorized aliens which is another law that was passed courtesy of Ron DeSantis, right? Or they weren`t unauthorized aliens.
They were they were allowed to be here as they were going through the immigration process and Ron DeSantis violated his own law by putting them on the planes and schlepping them from Texas to Massachusetts, and frankly, and fraudulently inducing them to do so.
PIZZO: I joined the governor, lieutenant governor, and most of my colleagues and agreeing that Venezuelans live under a tyrannical regime. It`s a dictatorship. And over the past few months, both lieutenant governor and the governor have said the same that there`s a stark difference. Lieutenant governor just recently mentioned. A stark difference between illegal aliens and those fleeing to seek asylum.
And Venezuelans are asylum seekers. They were paroled in, we`ve verified. So, Katie, to your point, two bills passed this session. One was an anti- immigration bill, S.B. 1808 in Florida. The other one was the general Appropriations Act. DeSantis has to pick and choose. Does he want to stay their unauthorized aliens or not? Does he want to say from Florida or not? He has to pick either one and both whichever he picks he violates the law.
PHANG: Senator, there`s a category two hurricane, Hurricane Ian that is bearing down on the state of Florida. By my tally, almost 1.5, $1.6 million has now been spent by Ron DeSantis in this political stunt. What are you hearing from your constituents about this type of money being spent?
I`ll be it, maybe it was put in the budget. But there are people that are facing very serious harm to their lives and their properties because of this, but Ron DeSantis thinks it`s a better use of his money or the taxpayers` money, frankly, to be able to do this political stunt.
PIZZO: It`s a spectacle, with the hurricane bearing down on us, property insurance were an absolute crisis. Another company just failed. And Katie, you know, you were a prosecutor, same office that I was before your high- profile civil attorney and on national T.V. I`ll tell you what`s really upsetting.
A Pinellas deputy sheriff was killed the other day by an illegal alien who was contracted by the Florida Department of Transportation to do roadwork in the state of Florida, I would not have filed this suit.
If he was complying with the law. The Governor was complying with the law that`s on the books from this past year. But when you`re going out to Texas when we`re desperately in need of relief here, you know, I`m going to come at you.
PHANG: Florida State Senator Jason Pizzo, we`re going to watch your lawsuit very carefully and we appreciate you being here tonight.
PIZZO: Thank you, Katie.
PHANG: Still ahead, MAGA supporters openly saluting the conspiracy group QAnon as Trump coddles and woos the group. But first, Michael Steele is here on the startling alliance between Mitch McConnell and Senator Kyrsten Sinema nominally a Democrat. Plus, what Karl Rove has to say and what`s about to become a quote real problem for the GOP.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:38:07]
PHANG: We are now just six weeks out from the November midterms and the GOP is losing its edge. A new model showing Republicans still look to pick up a majority in the House with a total of 223 seats. But that number is down from 226 seats in August, and it`s within the margin of error. But on the flip side, President Biden`s approval rating has dropped back down to just 39 percent.
And with so much on the line, voter registration is painting an interesting picture for Democrats, women turning out and unexpectedly high numbers from Georgia to Michigan to Wisconsin. It`s a pink wave and what some are calling Roe-vember driven in large part by the strike down of Roe v. Wade.
While Democrats are campaigning on abortion rights and the MAGA threat to our democracy, Republicans are predictably having a tough time describing what they would actually do if in power. Here`s House Republican conference chair Elise Stefanik.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANNON BREAM, HOST, FOX NEWS: Why not more details in this plan?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): Shannon there ample details. So, number one, an economy that strong. The first focus on economic issues is we need to rein in inflation. We start by doing that by reining in the reckless trillions of dollars of spending that we have seen under Joe Biden and unified Democrat far-left government.
Number two, lower the price of energy. I hear that from my constituents in upstate New York. Democrats have no plan, they are attacking us because they have created crises across this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Joining me now to get into all of it is my good friend former RNC chair, Michael Steele. Michael, it`s been a while, so I`m happy to see you. BUT let`s start right with what Elise Stefanik just said. I didn`t hear a plan. I don`t know if you did. So, what is the GOP`s agenda because not even the GOP can tell Americans what it is.
MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER RNC CHAIR: Now, well I think Mitch McConnell set the tone for how they were going to approach this election when he was asked over the summer, what was the plan? What if you get the House back in the Senate possibly, what are you going to do? And he said, well give us the power first, and then we`ll tell you what we`re going to do.
[18:40:00]
That`s essentially what Elise Stefanik just said, you know? It was talking points. I`ve sat in those meetings. I know how that was crafted, you know, the top line is, you know, we`re going to, you know, restore the economy by reducing inflation. OK, sounds good. So how do you do that since typically, that`s not something you can easily control nor reduce, and just ask the Fed, which is that their purview.
So, the reality of it is, it`s going to be a lot of loud noise and banging of symbols around the economy, you know, a progressive, aggressive Democratic Party that wants to strip your rights away, not with any specificity, but just enough to scare voters into believing that if you give us the power, we`re going to protect you from the Democrats.
The problem for the Democrats is how do you present a counter-narrative that clarifies the moment for voters, as we`ve seen the polling has dipped back down for Joe Biden. To say, look, yes, despite the Republicans standing in the way, this is what we`ve been able to get accomplished. And if you give power back to a party that is behind the insurrection, but has not laid out a plan, what do you think happens come January of 23?
PHANG: Michael, let`s actually talk about substance because you and I have had these conversations, but let`s quickly listen to what Karl Rove had to say about abortion bans and the upcoming midterms. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Define extremist.
KARL ROVE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, essentially, no abortion, no exceptions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you mean the Texas bill?
ROVE: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. You think — Do you think Texas is too extremist?
ROVE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would recommend that the legislature go back and —
ROVE: I think it`s going to create a real problem for Republicans in the legislature next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: So, Michael, we`ve seen what can happen in states like Kansas, even Michigan now has the right to choose up for the voters to decide. Is it hyperbolic to say that abortion will be the issue in November?
STEELE: No, it is not. It has been the issue since the leaking of that opinion back in April of this year. It has been something that has been galvanizing. And what has surprised many of us, particularly among pro-life elected officials, is how negligent and dangerous the Republican rhetoric has been on this subject.
How offensive it has been to women, the very same women, they know they need in suburban America to turn out for them. The very same women among young voters who are going to be a pivotal player this November. Going back to how you open the segment, Katie, I mean, the reality of it is that pink wave is not being counted in polling right now. They`re doing traditional modeling in polling.
They`re not looking at and extrapolating the — the effects of Kansas, and what that may mean. The effect of having Republicans lose in the special elections, and the uptick, the significant uptick in the turnout models from Democrats. So, it`s going to be a very dynamic election.
I still contend the lane is there for Republic — for Democrats to hold the House despite how you lead with the showing of the numbers at 23 — 223 seats. But again, I think that belies how the voters are looking at this election, and how passionate they`re becoming about it.
PHANG: Talking about existing Democrats, although I use the word Democrat in quotes for this particular person. Democrat Kyrsten Sinema today spoke at an event with Mitch McConnell. Take a quick listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-AZ): Despite our apparent differences, Senator McConnell and I have forged a friendship. While we may not agree on every issue, we do share the same values.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: She is today what we have too few of in the Democratic Party, a genuine, moderate, and a dealmaker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: You know, Michael, putting aside the mutual adoration fest going on there. What is it say that Democrats like Kyrsten Sinema are being so overt about their coziness with a Republican like Mitch McConnell, we`re so close to the midterms?
STEELE: Well, she`s looking at her own backyard and seeing the hits that she`s taken given her, you know, obstacles that she`s put in place for the Democrats. I think the counter question to Mitch McConnell will name the Republican moderates who are willing to cut a deal with the Democrats. I mean, the street goes two ways, you know?
So, it`s great to stand there in tout, you know, just sort of wrap your arms around Kyrsten Sinema, kiss the Sinema, and think, oh, yes, we`re all close. But that`s not been the play. I mean, from Republicans, Republicans have not been willing to put their moderate voices in play. In fact, a lot of those moderate senators are looking around at the landscape and say I`m getting the hell out of here.
[18:45:00]
Because there is no room for the very thing that Mitch McConnell was touting there. So, I get what Kyrsten`s doing is the old, you know, political rope a dope, you know, don`t look at what I`ve done, just look at look at what I`m saying right now. But she`s going to have to account for that in her own state at the appropriate time. It`s — you know, giving a little bit of cover to Republicans.
That`s what she`s doing, going into the fall quite honestly. For those independent voters who are sitting there going, I just want people to get along and work along, work together to solve our problems. And then flash, here we go. We got the side-by-side of the two of them. But that is a lie.
That is not how we`ve lived through 18, 24 months of that being alive because we`ve seen how that plays out when it`s actually coming down to doing good policy. And all this bipartisanship is not stopped the kind of aggressive efforts on abortion. It has not stopped the aggressive efforts at the border. And her voice refuting some of that would be interesting to hear, don`t you think?
PHANG: I`d love to know. Michael Steele, thank you so much, my friend, for being here. I appreciate it.
STEELE: All righty.
PHANG: But first, Trump`s QAnon gamble embracing the conspiracy group in a new rally.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:51:02]
PHANG: Donald Trump leaning into his courtship of the dangerous conspiracy group QAnon. At a rally on Friday, his team wants more playing a song that`s almost identical to the QAnon theme song with some of the crowd raising that one finger QAnon salutes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But now we are a nation in decline. We are a failing nation. We are a nation that has the highest inflation in 50 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Trump himself posting a barrage of QAnon-themed images on his Truth social accounts like this one showing Trump with the American flag in front of a large letter Q., and this post referring to quote, information warfare and the letter Q. over half of Trump`s face.
Joining me now is Democratic strategist Kurt Bardella. Kurt so nice to see you. You know, Trump seems to be leaning into his QAnon fan base, although he won`t admit it publicly. But his last two rallies are betraying his true feelings in my opinion. What`s his goal here? Just shoring up his fan base for 2024 run?
KURT BARDELLA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, I mean, this is just deliberate pandering to the extreme fringes of society. And really, that just tells you everything you need to know about the direction of the Republican Party that they`re break from reality, their break from truth, their war and assault on those who report and tell the truth.
It all leads to this, the further away they get from reality an alternate facts, an alternate reality. You`ve heard them use those terms before. The more they rely on these crazy friends that will believe anything, but the reality. And Donald Trump has spent so much of his time even going back to when he presided over COVID.
Remember when he famously said we`re going to — we`ve turned the corner on COVID, we`ve gone over the cliff on COVID, while there were still thousands of people dying every day. Like they are reliant on people to believe in conspiracy and misinformation. They prey on that, because that`s their entire base at this point. That`s what the big lie is all about.
PHANG: Yes, but you know, Kurt, QAnon used to be an outlier, right? That used to be the — we`re going to turn a little bit of a blind eye, maybe across the street, kind of energy, but it`s now more mainstream in the upcoming midterms. 11 candidates have showed some level of support for QAnon, 11.
So, Kurt, what does this mean for the political landscape going forward, if dangerous, domestic terrorist organizations like QAnon are now less outlier and more mainstream?
BARDELLA: Well, and that`s why again, 60 percent of Americans are going to have an election denier on their ballot this November. The idea that there`s some big divide between the Republican Party establishment and the fringe is a complete fallacy. They`re one in the same at this point. The fringe is the establishment, and I think in the media and prognosticators and pundits and commentators.
We all need to adjust and adapt to the reality that there is no establishment Republican Party the way that we remember. The way that Mitt Romney carried that torch or George W. Bush`s compassionate conservatism. That is a thing of the past. The establishment Republican Party today looks a lot more like Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert.
PHANG: Kurt Bardella, I wish I had more time. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Coming up next, shocking video of police leaving a handcuffed woman inside of a car as it got hit by a train. She survived, but now the officers are under investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:58:30]
PHANG: Finally, tonight, a shocking story from Colorado. Police leaving a handcuffed woman inside of a patrol car as it is hit by a train. She survived but suffered numerous broken bones and required surgery. The whole thing was captured on several different officers` body cams. Here`s the moments when an officer realized a train was coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time check. (BLEEP). Oh, my God. Oh, my God, (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (BLEEP) leave your car. Stay back.
PHANG: A few moments later as the officers stood by and watched, the train smashed into the patrol car. The woman`s lawyer saying she could hear the train coming and she was frantically trying to open the door with her hands cuffed. It`s unclear why police park the car on the tracks in the first place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police (INAUDIBLE) patrol was hit by a train. Dispatch (INAUDIBLE) get us medical emergency. The suspect was in the vehicle that was hit by the train.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHANG: Body cam footage shows the mangled patrol car just moments afterwards. The Denver Post reports one officer has been put on paid administrative leave while authorities investigate the crash. The woman was originally detained at gunpoint as police were responding to reports of a road rage incident, but she has not been charged.
That does it for me. You can also catch me on “THE KATIE PHANG SHOW” weekend morning at 7:00 a.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC. And stream new original episodes on the MSNBC hub on Peacock on Thursdays and Fridays as well. “THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID” is up next.