Updated
Summary
Republicans Mike Lee of Utah and Chip Roy of Texas are asking the former White House chief of staff via text messages for evidence so they could support overturning the 2020 election results in favor of former President Donald Trump. Former Obama Navy secretary is interviewed about Ukraine`s missiles taking down Russian warship. GOP succumbed to Trump`s grievances, announced plans to boycott presidential debates, with RNC chairwoman calling non-partisan Commission on Presidential Debates biased. High school teacher lost her job after being accused of lessons on critical race theory.
Transcript
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Since nearly 100-year-old widow will be on hand as the Dodgers take on the Reds. 75 years, it`s a moment in history that continues to inspire generations of Americans, and no doubt will offer generations to come.
Thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows during these truly extraordinary times. We are so grateful. “THE BEAT” with Jason Johnson in for Ari starts right now.
Hi, Jason.
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC HOST: Thanks so much, Nicolle.
Welcome to THE BEAT. I am Jason Johnson, in for Ari Melber. We have a big, big show for you tonight.
A special interview with former President Obama`s Navy secretary on the crushing loss for Russia. That warship sinking after taking fire. But we start with the January 6th probe and the committee flexing its evidence. We`re starting to see more incriminating evidence leak out seeing just how deep the plan to steal the election of 2020 was. Newly revealed text messages obtained by CNN show Senator Mike Lee and Congressman Chip Roy going right to Mark Meadows in full support of those false claims of fraud being pushed by Trump and the MAGA team.
NBC News has not reviewed these text messages. Senator Lee telling Meadows, quote, “Exhaust every legal and constitutional remedy at your disposal.” Congressman Roy saying, quote, “We need ammo. We need fraud examples. We need it this weekend.”
Those attitudes didn`t last long. These Republicans grew skeptical and weary of these bogus claims once no evidence could be provided. And there were zero evidence. These newly revealed texts show the lawmakers expressing concern over the plan to overthrow the election by November. Senator Lee writing to Meadows, quote,” If you want senators to object, we need a strong evidentiary argument,” i.e., you need more people.
Trump didn`t have that because his claims about election fraud were false. His team continued to press forward with the alternative electors plot, Senator Lee on January 3rd warning Meadows, quote, “This will end badly for the president unless we have the Constitution on our side. And unless these states submit new slates of Trump electors pursuant to state law, we do not.”
Even noting, quote, “I have grave concerns with the way my friend Ted is going about this effort.” Remember, Ted Cruz objected to the electoral count but Lee voted to certify the results in favor of Biden. So did Congressman Roy who told Meadows on January 6th, quote, “This is an S-word show.” We know what he was saying. “Fix this now.”
Senator Lee`s spokesperson telling CNN he`s been, quote, “fully transparent,” and Meadows has not responded.
This explosive evidence emerging as we learn about the contentious interview Trump loyalist and White House aide Stephen Miller had with the January 6th Committee. Two committee insiders describing the eight-hour interview was, quote-unquote, “heated at times.” Miller invoked executive privilege when asked about his discussions with Trump including a phone call that White House records show he had with the former impeached president the morning of January 6th.
And on the speech he wrote for Trump moments before the riot, Miller was pressed on the word “we” in this part.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: We`re going to walk down, and I`ll be there with you. We`re going to walk down. We`re going to walk down. Any one you want, but I think right here. We`re going to walk down to the Capitol because you`ll never take back our country with weakness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Sounds a lot like inciting a riot to me. Maybe I`m nuts.
Miller denying Trump was trying to incite the crowd to action. On Trump`s false claims of ballot fraud and a fix on election, Miller quote — Miller said, quote, “Argued that the election had been stolen claiming that there were several examples of fraud.”
Here`s Trump guy still insisting to the committee there was widespread fraud. It`s been through the courts. We have a criminal probe on fake electors. We have a congressional probe on the lead up to the January 6th based on this big lie yet Trump`s sidekick is denying reality on ballot fraud.
Talk about this, joining me now is former acting U.S. solicitor general Neal Katyal and former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks.
Thank you. Two of the smartest people I could ask about this.
So, Neal, I`m reading through most of this new information from CNN. And I`ve seen plenty of screen shots from text messages, friends going back and forth, who cancelled on dinner, et cetera, et cetera. I don`t know that that`s always evidence. It could be in an argument. But how much can any of these text messages be used by the Department of Justice? We know that it`s bad and it exposes what the Republicans were trying to do but what can DOJ do with these text messages with the case that they`re currently pursuing?
NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL: I think they can do a lot. And even before we get to DOJ, I think it just paints a bigger picture about what the January 6th investigation is all about. And I think a lot of us have been wondering why is it the Republican Party hasn`t cared more about what happened on January 6th?
[18:05:06]
You know, right after it happened, Mitch McConnell and others condemned it and the like. And I think these texts today, Jason, start to point to an answer which is that the wrought wasn`t just Donald Trump. It goes do many leaders in the party. I mean, Mike Lee just voted against Ketanji Brown Jackson for the Supreme Court because, get this, he said she wouldn`t uphold the Constitution. I mean, my god, you know, these texts show that this guy was — you know, thick into the plotting of this from the start. Going so far as to call Sydney Powell a straight shooter and say that the White House should meet with her.
And then when Powell seemed too insane even to the self-proclaimed constitutionalist Mike Lee, he then pivoted to the next most insane person, John Eastman, and told the White House to listen to that guy. So, you know, all of this I think explains why the politics have been the way they are which has made this almost a partisan thing when it shouldn`t be.
JOHNSON: Right.
KATYAL: And yes, I think this evidence can be used in a Justice Department investigation.
JOHNSON: So, Jill, I want to go to you on this. So Stephen Miller goes, he talks to the January 6th Committee. You know, he`s hostile. He`s, you know, angry. He does his whole sort of Kavanaugh thing. And I understand it, you know, Stephen Miller has been sort of committed to this movement all along. What could potentially be next for someone like him?
I mean, obviously if he goes in and lies, and we know he`s lying if he`s continuing Trump`s fraud, is he the next likely person to be sort of kicked upstairs to Merrick Garland? Is he going to be able to walk free and continue whatever sort of white nationalist plans that he has? What would be next for someone like Stephen Miller who is still tried and true committed to the ongoing coup being put forward by Republicans?
JILL WINE-BANKS, FORMER WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Well, of course, because we don`t yet know exactly what he said, we`re only hearing tidbits of he claimed executive privilege which we know is not going to fly. There`s fraud and crime exception. President Biden has waived any privilege. There is no any reason for him to continue claiming that. So there could be an obstruction charge. That could be next for him. Whether he would ever cave, I don`t know. Based on what we`ve seen of him, I have a feeling he`s a lost cause. And so I would worry about that.
I do want to say I completely agree with Neal that we could absolutely use these text messages in any kind of criminal proceeding at the Department of Justice. But I have a slightly different take on one part which is both of these people who were adamant about supporting the fraud of the election came to realize that it was a fraud.
JOHNSON: Right.
WINE-BANKS: They came to see the facts and they voted to confirm the electors, the real electors. So I think we have to give them a break and say, well, they didn`t vote that way and so even though they were willing to be involved, they paid attention to what was true and to the fact that there was no fraud and they voted the way they should have voted. So I`m going to give them a little break on that.
JOHNSON: So I want to follow up —
WINE-BANKS: It`s dangerous to argue with Neal, but I just had to say that. Sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
KATYAL: Well, Jill, let me just say, you know, first of all, you know, remember they did vote against the impeachment. Right? So they voted — you`re right — on January 6th. Then they did the absolutely wrong thing and you know, the texts reveal a plot for two months in which they were, you know, plotting a coup. And yes, at the end they did one right call but I don`t think that diminishes their culpability early on for their actions.
WINE-BANKS: I agree with that.
JOHNSON: And Jill, I wanted to follow up on that because that was my question. I saw the same thing. It`s like OK, these guys were all in at the beginning. Right? And then they realized this is nonsense. Now to me, that`s guys who`s in “Ocean 11” who start — you know, they start with the bank robbery and they`re like, wait a minute, these plans are garbage. Right? And then at the end they decided that they`re not going to go with Danny Ocean. That`s great. That`s wonderful.
But does that necessarily mean that they are any better? The person who recognizes that a crime is being committed and realizes that`s wrong but still covers for it, aren`t they essentially just as guilty as the people who remain committed to it?
WINE-BANKS: Well, they certainly don`t get a break in terms of past crimes committed because they do one thing right. So whatever they did in the beginning, but in the beginning they were writing saying send us evidence. They were asking the right questions.
JOHNSON: Right.
WINE-BANKS: Send us ammo, send us facts. We can`t win this if we don`t have that. So I can`t blame them for saying that, asking for the facts is one thing and then recognizing you`re not getting them and I can`t vote to act in accordance with your conspiracy theory when there is no support for it.
JOHNSON: Neal —
KATYAL: But, Jill, I think that they went — I was just going to say I think they went further than just simply saying oh, tell me the facts and then I`ll make a determination. They were saying we need ammo.
[18:10:02]
We need fraud examples. We need it this weekend. So they`re asking for baked facts. They are asking for stuff that fits their pre-conceived narrative ahead of time. And I think that`s really the thing that concerns me is, you know, both before the election, during the election, after the November election, there was this continued plot and the facts were not real facts. They were kind of, you know, Donald Trump facts. You know, alternative facts. That`s what they were looking for.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: I want to say this real quick, Jill. Because Neal is bringing up something that I think is key to a lot of the viewing audience. And a lot of — when I talk to people who don`t do this for a living, who aren`t brilliant, experienced lawyers. They hear this. They see these text messages now. They see evidence after evidence after evidence that you`ve got members of the House and Senate who were complicit in this or a part of the planning and the plotting but they are also seeing nobody is walking around in an orange jumpsuit. Nobody has been taken out in handcuffs.
Why is this taking so long when we have so much — at least circumstantial evidence that suggests that members of Congress may have been complicit in this coup attempt? Why hasn`t Merrick Garland called in more members of Congress? Or maybe he has and we just haven`t heard about it. Where do you think we are on that, Neal.
KATYAL: We don`t know but my sense is it probably hasn`t gotten to that stage in the investigation yet. I hope that I take the attorney general at his word that he`s going to go where the facts lead him. Obviously, this is something that has to be done in the most careful, meticulous of manners which is of course Merrick Garland`s modus operandi. So my hope is that it is happening, that it will happen.
And you`re absolutely right, Jason. The facts already are so damning that the congressional committee, the January 6th Committee filed a brief in federal court in January that said basically we believe the evidence shows that Donald Trump committed various felonies and then laid it out. And then Judge Carter, very respected judge in California, agreed and said it is more likely than not that Donald Trump committed these various federal felonies.
JOHNSON: So I want to get to some sound real quick. Jill, what we`ve got is Peter Navarro on January 4th praising Ted Cruz and talking about this plan. I want to play this sound and get your thoughts on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, FORMER TRUMP ADVISER: The plan was simply this. We had over 100 congressmen and senators on Capitol Hill ready to implement this sweep, and at 1:00 p.m., Ted Cruz, Senator Ted Cruz, and a Gosar representative started the Green Bay sweep beautifully challenging the results of Arizona.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Between this and the text messages, are we still not ready for orange jump suits? Where do you think this — looking back on this interview again, where do you think this fall now with the information we just got, Jill?
WINE-BANKS: So I`m on the more aggressive side of prosecution here. I believe that we do have enough evidence. And one thing that I learned as a prosecutor, particularly in my appearance in organized crime, you could investigate forever to get the perfect case, to get every possible violation. But at some point you have to say enough is sufficient and I`m going to go with the low-hanging fruit.
I have a case and I`m going to go with it. And then you can build more cases. I think that that`s really important. We got great evidence in Watergate after we returned indictments. The smoking gun tape was a trial, a pre-trial subpoena. We didn`t have that when we indictment. But we had enough to go to trial. And we could have won on what we had. We got better but I do think that America is getting to the point where justice delayed is justice denied and that action is called for.
JOHNSON: Neal Katyal and Jill Wine-Banks, thank you so much for starting us off with a hot segment. Giving us information and insight that we need.
Still ahead, devastating new details about Russia`s sunken warship. How this happened and what it means. A special interview with the former secretary of the Navy under President Obama.
Also tonight, the RNC targets another staple of American democracy. Boycotting presidential debates. I do not understand this and yet I do.
And before we`re done, how MAGA`s nasty rhetoric on critical race theory is now hurting real teachers in your classrooms. Stay with us. This is Jason Johnson in for Ari on THE BEAT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:18:48]
JOHNSON: Now to an embarrassed Russia. Losing a warship and now attacking Ukraine`s capital city again after a retreat. Russia bombing a missile factory in the outskirts of the city and Putin now warning Biden of weapons saying the U.S. will meet, quote, “unpredictable consequences” for sending weapons to Ukraine, warning they are, quote, “adding fuel to the war.” The U.S. just approved $800 million in new military aid.
Ukraine says Russia is bombing Mariupol with long range bombers. All this comes amid a humiliating defeat for Putin. Today the United States confirming Ukrainians sank Russia`s premiere Black Sea battleship. The Pentagon saying two Ukrainian missiles struck the ship. A fire sparking an explosion. That sank the ship.
The Moskva was Russia`s flagship in the Black Sea and has a long history of combat in Syria and Georgia. This is the warship Ukrainians told to go F yourself at the beginning of the invasion. The warship worth $750 million is now sitting at the bottom of the Black Sea. It`s unclear right now how this will affect Russia`s immediate capabilities in Ukraine. President Zelenskyy talked about sinking it today.
[18:20:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): We know that it does not exist anymore. For us, it is a strong weapon against our country. So its sinking is not a tragedy for us. I want you the rest of the people to realize that. The less weapons the Russian federation that attacked our country has, the better for us, the less capable they are. This is important and about what happened to it, the history will tell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: We`ll get into all of that with President Obama`s secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus when we`re back in just 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNSON: Joining me now is Ray Mabus, former United States secretary of the Navy under President Obama.
Thank you so very much, Secretary Mabus. I`m going to start with this. For those of us who are not watching the History Channel every week, who don`t necessarily know everything from master and commander and everything else like that, the impact of the Navy on a ground invasion into Ukraine is something that a lot of people may not understand.
What was the role or what is the Russian Navy supposedly doing to help in this invasion of Ukraine and that will sort of lead us to understanding why the loss of this ship of Moscow was so serious?
RAY MABUS, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: The Russian Navy is doing a bunch of things to help this invasion. First they`ve got a blockade of all the Ukrainian ports on the Black Sea, including Odessa. So it keeps resupplies, food, ammunition, things like that from getting in. Second, they`ve been firing long range cruise missiles into Ukraine as part of the attacking force. And that was what the ship, one of the specialties was. Those tubes you see on the deck, those could house cruise missiles that the Russians were using.
And third, there was the threat of an amphibious invasion around Odessa particularly around Odessa that ships like the Moscow would be the big support ships for.
JOHNSON: So how common is it to see a flagship — I mean I think of, you know, history lessons in the Battleship Yamato for the Japanese and how big a deal that was or what it did and did not survive. How big a deal is it in modern military combat to see a nation`s flagship battleship be sunk? Has that happened any time in the last 25, 30 years and how might that impact strategy going forward for Russia?
MABUS: It really hasn`t happened since World War II in any conflict that I know of. And, you know, It`s huge. It`s huge symbolically as you pointed out. This was the ship that threatened the Ukrainians on Snake Island and they told them to go do something you can`t say on TV. The Ukrainians just issued a stamp commemorating that. But this was a very powerful warship. It had cruise missiles, anti-air, it had anti-ship capables. And it`s their flagship.
And I think one thing that`s important to point out here is those Neptune missiles that hit it, they were developed and produced inside Ukraine. These were not foreign weapons that get sent in. These are Ukrainian weapons. And so the Russians at sea were just like the Russians on land. They underestimated the Ukrainians at how good they were and how nimble they were and how they could adapt. And one of the things it shows is that Ukraine can not only use these smaller weapons like Stingers and Javelins that are handheld, but they can use some very sophisticated long-range missiles.
[18:25:13]
JOHNSON: I want to play some quick sound for you. This is Garry Kasperov talking about the length of this war so far. And I want to get your thoughts on the other side. This is a pretty extensive idea about how long we thought this was going to be and what the Ukrainians can really do against Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARRY KASPEROV, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I don`t think this war can last for years. For months, probably yes, but not for years. Russia seem it doesn`t have these resources. And Ukrainian army is getting stronger every day. They receive reinforcements probably from the free world so it`s heavy armor now. Long range artillery. Anti-ship missiles. So if Putin doesn`t have decisive win in the east by May 9th, the next couple of weeks, then the Ukraine army may start counter offense. And I don`t see Putin having any resources to prevent the loss of all territories, Crimea included. So Ukraine might restore territorial integrity all on her own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Secretary, between the Moskva and this, this seems like the sort of mess around and find out moment for the Russians. Can they continue a long-term invasion for months or will Putin have to go to the negotiating table if this drags on, you know, into the middle of the summer and the Ukrainians don`t seem to be losing ground?
MABUS: Well, I think that what Kasperov said is pretty accurate. That they don`t have the long-term capabilities to do this.
JOHNSON: Right.
MABUS: But I don`t think those are the only two choices. I mean, Putin has showed that he is perfectly, perfectly willing to keep pouring people and treasure into this war. That he doesn`t care about life. He has resorted to what — he has resorted to every single time with the sinking of Moskva. He did a terror attack. He started lobbing missiles back into Kyiv. And I think that instead of going to the negotiating table, that maybe the only off ramp for a Putin is he just changes the definition of victory.
JOHNSON: Right.
MABUS: And just says, hey, we won. We did everything, we de-nazified Ukraine. We`ve done this, we`ve done that. And so we`re out of here. But I think that the time has passed when you can say that Russia`s going to win this war. It`s a question now of how badly they get mauled and how many civilians get killed and how many other things happen because of this but there is no way that they are going to subdue —
JOHNSON: Take over Ukraine.
MABUS: — and subjugate Ukraine.
JOHNSON: Ray Mabus, thank you so much for that insight and information. It`s actually really, really helpful.
Ahead, Hershel Walker goes from football legend to right-wing darling. We have a monster fact check on him.
Also the Republican whitewashing of history. A teacher fired over critical race theory which isn`t being taught in schools. Her first national interview is ahead with us.
First, what happened when you get embarrassed on the debate stage? The RNC taps out. Inside the Trump takeover next on THE BEAT.
Jason Johnson sitting in for Ari Melber.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:32:52]
JOHNSON: This says it all. The Republican National Committee is boycotting another staple of modern democracy. Officially divorcing itself from the Commission on Presidential Debates and requiring GOP candidates to abstain from the commission`s debates. The same that RNC that censured GOP representatives Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for participating in the January 6th Committee, and called the insurrection an attempted coup, quote, “legitimate political discourse.”
It`s the same RNC that failed to produce a single policy for their 2020 platform. What they wrote amounted to a blank page with a crayon and a big heart on it that says we love Donald Trump. Part of the Republican organization — I refuse to call them a party — that Mitch McConnell says won`t even release an agenda for the midterms. And now to top it off, they`re boycotting presidential debates. So no policies, no debates, and endorsing violence.
The commission is nonpartisan. It was established in 1987 designed to minimize the influence of extreme partisans like RNC chair Ronna McDaniel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONNA MCDANIEL, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRWOMAN: This commission has had a monopoly. The RNC is saying enough is enough, we are opening the field to a different way to do debates with a moderate — with a commission that`s not biased.
I think voters are very frustrated by the corrupt debate commission. It is corrupt. It`s what D.C. is. They are in the pocket of Joe Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: One thing this actually shows is that the RNC is in the pocket of Donald Trump who complained bitterly about the commission because he`s afraid to debate anybody. It`s part of his overall attack on democracy.
Joining me now to discuss, Kurt Bardella, adviser to the Democratic National Committee among other roles, one of the greatest country music writers we have in America today, and Democratic pollster and son of Florida, Fernand Amandi.
Thank you guys so much for joining me on this Friday. I`m going to start with this. If you`re afraid to step into the ring, that seems to me an indicator that you don`t have bars. You`re not prepared. You can`t put your dukes up.
Is there any way, Fernand, that the Republicans can justify to your average voter being afraid to even step into a presidential debate?
[18:35:02]
That`s the thing — it just screams cowardice to me. Is there some version of this that actually works with their voters?
FERNAND AMANDI, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Well, Jason, I think they can point to some other countries where candidates for the highest office in the land do not square off and debate each other before the eyes of the voters but the problem is those are authoritarian and totalitarian countries. They`re not democracies. And I think as you outlined at the beginning, this is really no surprise.
And if anything, I`m going to maybe do something beyond the obvious here. I`m going to thank the Republican Party. I`m going to thank the RNC for dispelling with the charade that they care anymore about democracy. This is just another nail in the coffin sign that speaks very clearly this is a party that does not believe in any sort of tradition that have established our American democracy now over almost 250 years in the making.
And Jason, I think what is very dangerous about this is if we in the media, those of us that celebrate this country, democracy normalized and pretend like this is just another evolution of the modern politics. Fundamentally, why are the Republicans saying no? They don`t want to submit themselves to any kind of scrutiny and more importantly, they don`t want to get their voters and their base to go beyond their shells on FOX News, on OAN, on this new landscape where you can create media bubbles where there is no sort of dissension. There`s no answering for the events of January 6th. Nobody being held responsible for having a governing plan. This just fits hand in glove with that approach.
JOHNSON: And let`s add to it. If we remember the last presidential debates in 2020, you could almost argue that Trump and his crew tried to turn it into germ warfare. Remember, they lied and misled the public about their COVID statuses and then enter the room possibly trying to get Joe Biden and other members of Democratic leadership sick. So we know that they don`t respect the process of debates and they tried to turn it into an attack on its own.
Kurt, I`m going to ask you this question about other Republicans. Now look, a lot of people assume that Donald Trump will eventually be the nominee in 2024 but there are other Republicans who may be interested in running. You have DeSantis. You have Abbott. You have who knows somebody else may pop up on the scene and just run because they think it`s going to be beneficial to them.
Do you think that by the Republicans backing out of the presidential debates that they may eliminate primary debates altogether and basically require people to go out and make their own hay? Because I think a lot of Republican who might want to run for the nomination would be angry if they don`t get the chance to at least debate each other.
KURT BARDELLA, ADVISER, DNC AND DCCC: Well, you know how for many years we`ve been referring to the Republican side of things as just the FOX News primary? That`s literally what we`re going to have left basically on the Republican side. If there actually is an open contest of some kind.
Let`s imagine a world where maybe Donald Trump doesn`t run and it`s a free for all with Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz and Ron DeSantis and company. Well, then it seems to me that FOX News will likely be the only one having any kind of Republican, quote-unquote, “debate” and let`s use debate in quote marks because it`s not a real debate. It`s just a massive misinformation fest.
But going back to the broader question of when it`s a Republican versus a Democrat, I`m going to tell you something, Jason, the media needs to show that there are going to be consequences if you`re going to choose to withdraw from democratic norms. What the media should do is offer to have a debate and if Donald Trump or Republican nominee is too chicken to show up, they need to go and say, all right, we`re going to allow the Democratic nominee whomever that is to have an hour and a half, simulcast on every network, to just say whatever they want, do whatever they want.
And if Republicans want to choose not to show up, that`s their choice. That`s their consequence. They can`t cry about equal time if they don`t choose to attend. Media has to show that there`s consequences if you`re going to just withdraw. Otherwise, they get away with it. Otherwise, Republicans say, look, we played our hand. Nothing changed. No one did anything to us. We were right to do so.
JOHNSON: I`ve been arguing for a long time, Kurt, that I don`t refer to it as a Republican Party anymore. They are a dime storefront for the terrorist movement called MAGA. And when you escape and avoid any and all democratic norms in this country, you can no longer be justifiably called a party.
I want to move to the party that`s actually semi-governing this country right now, that`s the Democrats. There`s been a move, and this was initially pushed by Julian Castro, he talked about this in 2020, to change the order of the Democratic primary and possibly start in Nevada.
I want to start with you, Fernand, on this. From a polling perspective, let`s try some alternative history. Do you think if Nevada was the first primary state instead of Iowa, do you think that might fundamentally change the fortunes of candidates that we have seen over the last couple of years and definitely change candidates` fortunes in the future?
ARMANDI: Jason, I really do. I mean I know Iowa jealously guards their first-in-the-nation status, but I mean, I think one of the things we have seen is that Iowa has not changed.
[18:40:05]
It has not become the diversified type of state that other states in the union have over the last 30, 40 years. So switching from Iowa to Nevada or another state, maybe even in the new south, even in the northeast and the southwest, I do think that would fundamentally alter not only the dynamics but how some of these campaigns approach these states and approach their ways of developing issues, developing their ideologies, and I think it will have a positive benefit.
Not to suggest that Iowa should not still be amongst the top contest.
JOHNSON: Right.
ARMANDI: But I think rotation change is good. It works for the college football playoff. Why not for the dominating contest for president?
JOHNSON: No insult to Iowa. Everybody loves their fried butter steaks but it might be time for a democratic change.
Kurt Bardella and Fernand Armandi, thank you guys so much for joining us on THE BEAT tonight.
BARDELLA: Thank you.
JOHNSON: Coming up, football legend turned MAGA pawn. Why one critic is calling the campaign of a leading GOP Senate candidate a political minstrel show? We all know who that is. But first a special interview with someone directly affected by the MAGA culture wars. That`s next on THE BEAT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:33]
JOHNSON: As the racist terrorist MAGA movement inflames the culture wars in America, a Missouri high school teacher is getting fired, accused of teaching critical race theory which we know doesn`t exist in high schools or elementary schools. And in a moment I`m going to speak with her live in her first national TV interview.
The school board voting not to renew English teacher Kim Morrison`s contract after parents complained about this worksheet. It`s titled, “How racially privileged are you?” Part of a lesson plan for the book, “Dear Martin” by Nick Stone. The critically acclaimed novel follows a black teen who faces police violence. Conservative groups are targeting the book and it`s been banned in some schools.
Seventeen states have passed laws restricting teaching CRT, 13 more have proposed bills, including Missouri.
Joining me now is high school teacher Kim Morrison and associate professor of Women`s and Gender Studies at Rutgers University Brittney Cooper.
Kim, thank you so much for joining me. I just want to say, I come from a family of teachers. Been a teacher myself. So I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us this evening. Just take us through this process. You spent your own money as a teacher to buy a worksheet to help your students understand a book and then you got fired.
What was the process? Did kids complain in class? Did parents come to you? How did you end up getting fired for just teaching a lesson?
KIM MORRISON, FORMER ENGLISH TEACHER, GREENFIELD HIGH SCHOOL, MISSOURI: Well, I bought the teaching packet. This was just one aspect of the packet. How did I come about getting fired? So I distributed that particular worksheet in mid-February. And then on February 28th, my principal called me to her office and showed me a photocopy of that handout and asked for context. Why was I using this? How did it relate to “Dear Martin” that she had heard complaints from parents that it was CRT?
So I explained to her that the — it`s not even a worksheet. That the handout which was meant to just be like self-reflective before we started reading chapter three was directly related to the conversation that the characters that we were about to read this specific conversation between the two characters that deals with racial privilege, and that this was just an illustration of that term. And she — and I said I`m not teaching CRT. I don`t — couldn`t begin to teach CRT.
That yes, the book deals with racism but that`s not CRT. The meeting was over. She suggested — well, the meeting wasn`t over. She suggested that I not use this kind of material going forward. And I went to class. And then two weeks later on March 14th, she called me back in and said she still fielding calls. She wouldn`t name who the parents are. She did confirm that none of the parents that she had heard from have students in the class. So I don`t know who they are.
JOHNSON: So —
MORRISON: I don`t know who the parents are.
JOHNSON: I want to hold on that point because I think that`s really key. So what you`re telling us is that you were teaching a book that was approved by the school. The “Dear Martin” book is approved by the school, yes?
MORRISON: Yes. I taught it last year. Yes.
JOHNSON: Yes. So — right. The same class and yet parents who weren`t even in your class filed complaints that led to the school board not renewing your contract.
I just want to ask you this other question very quickly. How long have you been teaching in your particular school?
MORRISON: This is — I`m finishing my fourth year there and I subbed for three years prior to that. So they know me.
JOHNSON: Right. Right. You`re a known entity at the school.
MORRISON: Right. This would have been my tenured contract. Like this was — you know, this is the end of my probationary teacher period and this would have been my tenured contract.
JOHNSON: I want to jump to Britney real quick, especially when I hear the word tenure, I immediately think of professors.
Britney, you know, this is — Miss Morrison here is what we`re talking about being the negative consequences on this sort of attack on critical race theory, which of course is not being taught in schools.
[18:50:00]
I want to ask you, as an actual college professor, when you hear a story like this, what do you think could be the consequences for young students that Miss Morrison and other teachers have been sort of restricted from teaching? What are the consequences for kids like that when they actually do go to college? How might they be limited if they`re teachers are afraid to teach even materials that they`ve been teaching for several years?
BRITTNEY COOPER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: Let me say, Miss Morrison, that I`m so sorry this happened to you and so sorry that it happened to your students. This is unconscionable and egregious, and I really hate it. What it means in my classroom is that I then get students who under educated, who cannot read context critically. I get students who struggle to empathize with characters and the ability to empathize with characters is both a life skill and also a critical thinking skill.
The ability to put yourself in the shoes of the character to understand their motivations. We need that kind of thinking when you want to lead an organization, when you want to become a politician, if you want to be a good parent, if you want to be a productive citizen, so that the decisions that you make are not just decisions about what is best for you individually but your ability to understand why we need to govern with, as W. E. B. Dubois said, with broad sympathy, right? For all of the folks who are part of the republic.
And so these parents not even parents in the class, so they`re not actually advocating for students who have actually been harmed, they want to create an (INAUDIBLE) populace so that it becomes OK to then enact racist policy structures in full view of the public and that is the thing that makes what they`re doing so cynical even though they try to give it the face of righteousness. It`s completely empty, you know, vacuities and disingenuous.
JOHNSON: And Brittney, following up with that, I want to show you this quick commercial from John Mandel who`s running in the state of Ohio, in the Republican primary for Senate right now, and get your thoughts on the other side as he attacks CRT indirectly.
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JOSH MANDEL, CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATE: Martin Luther King marched right here so skin color wouldn`t matter. There is nothing racist about stopping critical race theory and loving America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I got to add, he`s standing in front of the Edmond Pettus Bridge while at the same time fighting against education that would teach why the Edmond Pettus Bridge matters.
Brittney, what — just quickly, why do you Republicans think that this is an effective method when clearly they`re even contradicting themselves in their own commercials?
COOPER: So may the spirit of John Lewis have mercy on us all. I think that the reason that they`re doing it is because it is effective. Because when you make people ignorant systematically and then you play on their fears and you tell parents that something is happening at school to harm their children, then moral outrage leads the order of the day so they don`t care about fealty to any kind of truth. They don`t care integrity. This is not about governance.
This is a raw bid for power and the thing they keep showing us is that they will go to the bottom of the barrel. They will spit upon the bloodshed by protesters on the Edmond Pettus Bridge at the Selma march, to tell us that their racist policies and actions are actually anti-racist and for the good of the country. We should not only be outraged or we should be systematically chipping away at all of this.
I wish that, Miss Morrison, that the parents of the kids in your class would stand up on your behalf. I hope that they will and I appreciate you because when I looked at that worksheet, one of the ones that really mattered to me was when it said that you had been called — you know, have you ever been asked if you were acting white? That was something bullying that I dealt with as a kid that really made it hard to be in school, and so the — there are black children in this school system who are dealing with that because of their proximity to whiteness that deserve to have their experience named and deserved to be in classes where their experience is taught and valued and understood.
JOHNSON: I think we just got the best education and sermon we could have tonight. We got to go.
Kim Morrison, thank you so much. We`ll be following up with your story. Brittney Cooper, thank you so much, as always.
My special comment on Herschel Walker and his insane claims and run for the Georgia Senate, next on THE BEAT.
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JOHNSON: Finally tonight, let`s talk about fame. I want to live forever. And how it`s turned what was once the Republican Party into basically an influencer house for crazed MAGA celebrities. Herschel Walker is running for the Georgia Senate with no qualifications other than playing football and helping the Cowboys win a Super Bowl by not playing for them, and his run has highlighted not only his lack of qualifications but the raft of bizarre things that have come out of his mouth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERSCHEL WALKER, REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE: At one time, science said man came from apes. If that is true, why are there still apes?
Senator Lewis, one of the greatest senators that`s ever been that threw his name on the bill for voting rights, I think it`s a shame. First of all, you know, when you look at the bill, it just doesn`t fit what John Lewis stood for.
Do you know right now I have something that would clean you from COVID as you walk through this dry mix? EPA, FDA approved. They don`t want to talk about that. They don`t want to hear about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: That literally hurts my brain. And it was all false. This week, Elie Mystal, a friend of the show, wrote that Republicans in Georgia, quote, “think any old black person will do when it comes to their cynical strategy for defeating Democrat Raphael Warnock.” He was basically talking about Herschel Walker and the idea that Republicans think that you can put any other black person up there, it would be fine, and while last night Herschel Walker felt like responding to Elie on the “Sean Hannity” show on FOX.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX HOST: As a new column by far-left columnists, Elie Mystal, is entitled, quote, “The Herschel Walker Senate campaign is an insult to black people.” I find this happens to African-American conservatives so often.
WALKER: I`m not going to have you to bully me because you can`t but what I would love to do for you to take the time to come down to Georgia, we sit down and break bread, because I`m about bringing people together, not separating people.
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[19:00:13]
JOHNSON: Why are you talking to Hannity about this issue? He has nothing to do with Georgia one way or another? Look the core issue here is that you got too many Republicans who`d rather mix it up on Twitter, argue with people in articles and do TikToks instead of actually interact with voters. When you actually want to represent America, you`ve got to get in the ring and compete with people instead of getting in front of a ring light to advance your Twitter followers and your TikTok.
That does it for me. Ari Melber will be back on Monday. “THE REIDOUT” is up next.