Updated
Summary
Four people are killed and multiple people injured in a shooting at St. Francis Hospital in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Funerals and memorials continue for the Uvalde School shooting victims. The Uvalde Police response to the school shooting is under review by the DOJ. A new memo ordered by a judge to be disclosed lays out a plan for Mike Pence to halt the certification of Joe Biden`s victory on January 6th.
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: 600 individuals had signed up to be poll workers. And several days ago, he submitted an initial list of more than 850 names to the Detroit clerk. Needless to say, this is not normal, small D democratic behavior. And if we just let this happen, we may not have a democracy to fight for anymore. If there was ever a time for high voter turnout, it says November.
And that`s tonight`s “REIDOUT.” ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voiceover): Tonight on ALL IN, the obscene blame game in Uvalde devolves again.
STEVE MCCRAW, DIRECTOR, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: The shooter entered, Ramos, was propped open by a teacher.
HAYES: Tonight, how law enforcement got it wrong when they blamed a teacher and why this investigation remains so chaotic. Then —
MATTHEW SEIFRIED, RNC ELECTION INTEGRITY DIRECTOR, MICHIGAN: We are trying to recruit. Truly it`s going to be an army.
HAYES: Shocking new reporting on the Republican plan for Election Day chaos in a key battleground state. Plus, George Conway on the new memo a judge ruled was part of a criminal effort to overturn the election. And as Republicans gathered to prepare and launch Benghazi-style attacks on Joe Biden, how another one of their phony investigations just collapsed.
LOU DOBBS, FORMER HOST, FOX NEWS: And what about the unmasking of American citizens?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why has there been such limited coverage of the Flynn unmasking?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who can believe a thing like this?
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES (on camera): Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. And the one week since the shooting in Uvalde, there have been 18 more mass shootings in this country. And tonight we come in the air with news of yet another just breaking in the last few hours. This time it`s in Tulsa, Oklahoma at St. Francis Hospital, inside the hospital.
According to the Tulsa Police, it started earlier this afternoon when a man armed with a rifle entered the hospital and started shooting. There have been multiple injuries and three confirmed fatalities. Police have also confirmed the shooter is dead. This evening, the Tulsa police captain described the scene as catastrophic. He said officers were going from floor to floor and room to room to rescue people making sure there were no additional threats. White House confirmed that President Biden has been briefed on the situation we`re expecting a briefing from law enforcement later this hour.
Now, this is a developing story. And it is often the case when terrible news like this breaks, particularly mass shootings. The reports are initially chaotic and sketchy. Gabe Gutierrez is an NBC News National Correspondent. He joins me now with the latest. Gabe, I know we may not know that much so far, but what do we know?
GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, hey there, Chris. Well, as you mentioned, in the next few minutes, we`re expecting a briefing from authorities. And as you said, police so far have confirmed at least three people are dead plus the gunman who is described as a man with a rifle. It`s still unclear whether he took his own life or whether he was shot by police. But investigators are now going room to room in that part of the hospital.
We`re told that it took place in what`s called the Natalie building. That is the newest building in the St. Francis Hospital complex in Tulsa. Now, the shooting unfolded sometime around 5:00 p.m. local time, at 6:00 pm.. Eastern Time. And police say that the shooter died sometime half hour later or so. But at this point, we of course don`t have a motive. Way too early for that. We don`t know the identities of the victims, their ages, or what their connection was to the hospital or to the gunman for that matter.
But again, Chris, we`re awaiting more information from authorities in the next few minutes. So far, at least three people dead, plus the gunman at this point, Chris.
HAYES: Gabe, also my understanding, there are some injuries as well. And hopefully, those folks can get treated. Obviously, complicated by the fact that the hospital itself, at least one building of it, is a crime scene.
GUTIERREZ: Yes, certainly. And again, we`re hearing of multiple injuries at this point. But as you know, Chris, you`ve covered many of these that the numbers are hard to come by at this point that just the initial shooting happened just a few hours ago. And you know, we have no idea this suspect, gunman described only as a man with a rifle who went to the hospital.
We don`t know if perhaps the man, you know, may have been there earlier, was somehow connected to a patient there. Still a lot of questions unfolding at this point. We understand federal authorities, though, are on the scene and will be investigating, Chris.
HAYES: All right, Gabe Gutierrez, thank you very much.
It`s been eight days since the government murdered 19 children to adults in Uvalde, Texas. And as we`ve covered that awful story, I`ve got to be honest, I`ve been reluctant, honestly, to share some of the most heartbreaking details. I think, as a parent, as a human being, everything about them is excruciating.
But I`m going to show you these new images from Uvalde because they are both too much to bear and they have to be seen. These are some of the child-size caskets. Maybe you`ve seen these floating around social media. Other people have covered them. They`re being customized for the victims of the shooting.
[20:05:09]
The Texas company donating the caskets had to ship them in for a manufacturer in Georgia because, of course, no one stocks large quantities of tiny caskets. They then met with each family. They choose a design that reflects the thing the children love, like softball and dinosaurs. And artists Trey Ganem handpainted each one, working nonstop for days to have them ready for the funerals that began this week.
Again, this atrocity happened chiefly because the gunman willed it. He committed mass murder. He is responsible morally. It also happened because that gunman, that 18-year-old was able to get a gun, a machine designed to kill people — multiple guns actually, along with rounds and rounds of ammunition. And he`s able to do that because of the decisions that Texas state lawmakers have made about how to regulate these weapons.
That`s a policy decision. Its decisions made primarily overwhelmingly by Republicans and conservatives who dominate state governments and who fetishize and celebrate those same weapons. And from the first hours after the massacre in Uvalde, there`s been a haphazard barrage of information, misinformation, wrong information about what happened. It`s been agonizing to watch these repeated missteps and errors from Texas officials.
But they all seem to have one thing in common. They all seem to have been produced by a desire, whether explicit or implicit, just there in the background, to find anything to blame that is not the guns, the access to guns, or the police officers involved in the response. Because from the standpoint of Texas Republican officials, like the ones that assembled in that big stage for the first event, it just cannot be the case that this horror occurred due to a combination of easy access to guns and police incompetence.
And so we`ve seen a frantic effort to find another explanation. Among those most ludicrous was the story about the door that we heard over and over, especially from Texas Republican senator and podcaster Ted Cruz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): We don`t have all of these unlocked back doors. We have one door into and out of the school and have that one door armed police officers at that door. If that had happened, if those federal grants had gone to this school, when that psychopath arrived, the armed police officers could have taken him out and we`d have 19 children and two teachers still alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There`s a lot there, right? The but for cause is that there wasn`t a federal grant for these doors. And also, if the door had been locked, then the Federal officers, the cops could have taken them out immediately. Both pretty questionable. At first, it was not clear why people like Ted Cruz were focusing so much attention on doors. I mean, yes, obviously, you don`t want a whole bunch of doors open in a school building.
Also, schools or public places. People are going to come in and out. In fact, the morning of the shooting, parents came into the building for an award ceremony celebrating students who made the honor roll. And you can understand how in those circumstances a door might be left open. And if it was left open, that would be a natural, innocent mistake amid a big event on a warm morning a few days before the end of the school year.
But then on Friday, after several disastrous press conferences, full of unanswered questions and stonewalling, the Texas Department of Public Safety came out to set the record straight about the time and events last Tuesday. This was like the big like here`s the deal, OK, no more messing around. We`re going to give it to you straight.
Stephen McCraw, director of the Texas DPS, laid out the details of the incomprehensible nearly 90-minute delay from the first time on one call to when the police finally confronted the gunman with multiple calls in between as the children were in the classroom with the gunman. And Mr. McCraw placed the blame for the gunman entering the school in the first place on a teacher and a door.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCRAW: 11:27. we know from video evidence, 11:27, the exterior door suspected of what they — of where we knew the shooter enter, Ramos, was propped open by a teacher. 11:28, the suspect vehicle crashes into the ditch as previously described. The teacher runs to the room 132 to retrieve a phone, and that same team teacher walks back to the exit door and door remains propped open. Bottom line is, as we reported what happened is that back door was propped open, it wasn`t supposed to be propped open. It was supposed to be locked. And certainly, the teacher that went back for her cell phone, propped it open again. So, that was an access point that the subject —
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: You see what he did there. That was not subtle. That`s the head of the Texas Department of Public Safety Communications Department squarely pointing a finger at a teacher who allegedly left the door propped open. That teacher is a real person. He`s not naming that person. But this is a small community. People in that town might know who that teacher was.
Can you imagine being that teacher who has gone through the trauma of a mass murderer in their school is now being blamed by a high ranking law enforcement official on national television for essentially having the blood of 19 children on their hands. And it wasn`t even true.
[20:10:18]
A lawyer for the teacher told the full story in the San Antonio Express News. She did prop open the door to carry food from a car to a classroom. And while she was outside, she saw the gunman crashed his car. The lawyer says, “she ran back inside to get her phone to report the accident. She came back out while on phone with 911. The men at the funeral home across the street yelled he has a gun. She saw and jumped the fence and he had a gun, so she ran back inside. She kicked the rock away when she went back in. She remembers pulling the door closed while telling 911 that he was shooting. She thought the door would lock because the door is always supposed to lock.”
In other words, she did the right thing. She called 911. She closed the door. She had the presence of mind to kick the rock in this moment of threat and the door was supposed to lock. And get this. Now, the Texas Department of Public Safety has admitted well we got it wrong.
Yes, the spokesman confirmed that “We did verify she closed the door. Door did not lock. We know that much. And now, investigators are looking into why it did not lock.” I`m sorry, guys, but that`s not like a little whoopsie. They basically slandered this teacher, again, who has survived a mass shooting and who did the correct courageous thing with her wits about her, thought on her feet and acted quickly. All of the things that as far as we can tell law enforcement largely did not do.
And yet there is Mr. McCraw out there in front of the cameras trying to make her or him shoulder the blame because of their desperate ideological desire to find some answers to this war that is not the guns or the cops. And we`ve now reached the point where the more information we learn, the more questions come up, and honestly, the more anger there is about what really does seem to be a total failure by law enforcement. There`s no other way to characterize it.
We can learn new things that better explain the response. But that might be difficult because the chief of police for the schools is allegedly no longer cooperating with investigators. A spokesman for Texas DPS tells NBC News that Chief Pete Arredondo participated in an initial interview, but has not yet answered requests for follow ups made more than two days ago.
Julia Ainsley is an NBC News Correspondent covering the Department Homeland Security and the Department of Justice. She has been reporting on the aftermath of the Uvalde shooting. And she joins me now. All right, Julia, lots of conflicting reports here. I don`t know who to trust, honestly, because at this point, some of the things that point the finger at the local school police or the local police come from spokespeople for DPS who haven`t been straight with us. What is the status of the cooperation of local police and investigators?
JULIA AINSLEY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That`s a great question, Chris. So, we know that local police, at least in the beginning had the incident control. That was Pete Arredondo who you — who you describe. I`ve heard from federal law enforcement who responded to the scene, CBP, and ICE responded, as well as state local law enforcement — state enforcement who say that it was Pete Arredondo making the calls there.
Now, in terms of who is heading these investigations, we now have Texas DPS. So, that`s state level, Department of Public Safety, that very man who came out and said, well, the door was actually closed. That is an investigation unto itself. That was the first investigation that started in the aftermath of this shooting.
And I have to say, as a reporter, it was really strange that we didn`t get a lot of information at first about what happened in this shooting. It`s typically all that could come out in the first 12 hours. But they kept being fielded back to Texas DPS who wouldn`t take any calls, wouldn`t answer emails. And we couldn`t figure out some of these basic details from the beginning.
But the investigation was supposed to be headed up by them. They were the chief until just a few days ago, the Justice Department launched their own investigation, but that`s separate. That`s more looking forward at patterns and practices that can be avoided, changed in the future. We will still have to look to this very official who you talk about who are now changing the story on the door, have changed his story on whether or not there was an armed police officer when this government came to the school. We now know there was not. We are now looking to them to be the head of this investigation and to give us answers.
And it is hard. I think a lot of people have actually said an investigation should include the talking points that were given to the media at the very beginning because we`re not just talking about media — you know, nerve- racking here for salacious details. These are the details that led to the final moments of these children`s lives.
HAYES: Yes, and I want to be clear about that. Look, I mean, however people are agreeing with us in that community whether directly affected or not, I think we all hold space for that. Some of them may want the media to run off and never talk to anyone there. And I would want 100 percent understand that. But it is also my understanding that people want to know what happened, you know, in the town, to parents, family members, and also the public. I mean, what happened here and getting the bottom that is part of that. And it has been incredibly difficult.
There is also the federal law enforcement aspect of this, which I find so strange. Like, in the end, it was federal law enforcement, right, those Border Patrol, of whom there are many in that town and that region, who ended up raiding the building. There`s some federal component of this. It feels like we should get some definitive answers from the feds at the very least.
[20:15:45]
AINSLEY: Yes, it`s interesting. You know, I covered DHS. I`m usually here talking about immigration with you, honestly. But in this case, I`ve been going to DHS trying to get a lot of these answers. And they keep pushing me back to DPS to hold — that they are running the investigation. Now, we were able to talk to some senior law enforcement officials who were able to run us through the timeline. That tactical unit from Customs and Border Protection actually arrived at the school at 12:15 and we`re told by Pete Arredondo to wait outside until finally 30 minutes later, they decided to go in and form that stack that finally went in behind a shield and took out the killer.
But it has been over and over again, the federal law enforcement seating to locals and state saying that they should be the ones giving us answers. And you`re absolutely right. A lot of families might not want to talk to the media right now. So, I understand from our reporters on the ground, some families have posted on their doors that they don`t want to talk to anyone, and that`s being respected. But I do think that there`s a public interest here to find out what happened so that it doesn`t get repeated.
HAYES: Yes. I mean, this was obviously a catastrophe in a million different directions, but just getting the ground facts seem so important. Julie Ainsley, thank you so much.
So we continue to watch for updates from Tulsa. We`ll bring them to you as we get them. Again, we want to make sure we have good information, so we`re not, you know, going through that cycle again, like we did in the initial moments after Uvalde. Coming up, we`ve got another MAGA conspiracy theory that comes crashing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It was the greatest political crime in the history of our country. If I were a Democrat instead of a Republican, I think everybody would have been in jail a long time ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Why the biggest names of the Democratic Party are likely not going to prison? Plus, one Trump lawyer`s step-by-step plan to overturn the 2020 election gets released to the public. We`ll take a closer look at what it says next.
[20:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: You may remember back in March, there was a shocking ruling from a judge in a civil case between Trump lawyer John Eastman, a guy who authored a one of many coup memos, the coup memo as far as we knew then, and the January 6 Committee. See, Eastman was trying to prevent the committee from getting its hands on his emails because he was the lawyer and he says, well, this stuff is privileged. But the judge denied his request, saying, “Based on the evidence, the court finds it is more likely than not that President Trump and Dr. Eastman dishonesty conspired to obstruct the joint session of Congress, meaning that it was possibly criminal and part of what`s called the crime fraud exception.
Now, one of the documents in question was a memo prepared by another lawyer for Rudy Giuliani and was forwarded to Eastman. The judge ruled the “it is subject to the crime fraud exception” and the court orders it to be disclosed. Now, the crime-fraud exception is exactly what it sounds like. You do not get attorney client privilege for documents that may have been used to commit a crime.
So, now, thanks to that ruling, we have that document, the crime-fraud exception smoking gun. It is yet another memo, a how to manual to overturn the 2020 election. The document lays out a plan for Mike Pence to halt the certification of Joe Biden`s victory on January 6th. But this memo now raises a whole new set of questions including the role Iowa Republican Senator Chuck Grassley played as President pro tempore of the Senate.
Because the scheme laid out in a kind of instructional fashion in the memo would have essentially worked like this. The vice president announces he will not serve as a presiding officer despite being his role. Then in his absence, “the President pro tempore acts as the President of the Senate regardless of whether it is Chuck Grassley or other senior Republican.
George Conway is a prominent conservative lawyer and former Republican, back in March in response to the ruling that resulted in the release of this new memo. He wrote an opinion piece in The Washington Post titled A Federal Judge Said Trump Probably Committed a Crime. The Department of Justice Can`t Ignore That. And he joins me now.
So, George, we have the big reveal here of what this memo was. And it`s quite granular in how they envisioned this essentially coup being pulled off. What are your impressions of it?
GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: Absolutely. I mean, the judge was absolutely right to order it released under the crime fraud exception. It was an attempt essentially to — it was an attempt to completely overturn the election and to refuse to apply the Electoral Account Act, which governs — under the 12th Amendment, governs the counting of the electoral votes by Congress by the Vice President.
And there`s even a sentence in the a phrase or lead into a paragraph in the memo that says any of the outcomes sketched above seems preferable to allowing the Electoral Account Act to operate by its terms. They`re basically saying, do anything but allow the law to operate the way it literally says, which is that Congress — so, this was, you know, absolutely an attempt to undermine, it was an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding under 28 USC 1512 along with — and it was an attempt to commit fraud against — defraud the United States by fraudulently and by false pretenses interfering with the lawful function of government.
[20:25:24]
And this is part of just — but it`s important to remember, this is part of a multi-faceted conspiracy to stir the people up, to make them be wild on January 6, to get them to go up on the Hill, to have these fake electors so that there`s — so they can create the pretense that there`s some kind of a contest here. And then finally, to get the Vice President to violate the law or to swap him out for Grassley and have basically the person gavel in or refuse to count the electoral votes that Congress is supposed to count that were all certified by the various authorities from the various states.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, I was reading, I was rereading the memo. I saw it when it first published and I was reading before airing, you know, it reminds me a little like, if you`re ever debugging a program, if you`re a computer programmer or you`re troubleshooting something in your house, like, you know, it`s not working, where you what you`re doing is you`re trying to find like, well, there`s five or six things after work together and I`m going to isolate each one and see what`s wrong, right?
This is like the opposite of it. It`s a trying — it`s like, where are the different places that we could create —
CONWAY: And screw it up.
HAYES: That would screw it up and would make the light not turn on. And let`s just go through whichever of those we can do.
CONWAY: Right. And, you know, I mean, there`s so many metaphors you can use. That`s a good one, throwing up everything to the wall and seeing what sticks. They were — this was a multifaceted conspiracy to do whatever takes, whatever it took, to stop the counting of electoral votes on January 6. And that has to be crime. If that`s not a crime, nothing is, under the statute.
HAYES: That`s really the interesting question to me, right? Because we — you know, this question of like, obviously, at an intuitive level, right, at a basic, intuitive level, not in terms of reading the statutes in the Criminal Code, this is wrong, right? It`s obviously anti-democratic. It`s obviously lawless and offensive to our conceptions of self-governance.
The question of whether it`s a technical crime is a more specific one. And obviously, the judge ruled in this case. The reason we have this memo is that it was probable crime was committed. Now, reading the memo, like, what is your feeling about that?
CONWAY: Yes. I mean, it becomes more probable with each piece of evidence. And what I hope the January 6 Committee will do, and I expect it will do is even if it has nothing else than what has already been revealed, to go through all those strands, and explain how in various corrupt and deceitful ways, people conspired and attempted, and led by Donald Trump to obstruct this proceeding of Congress and to — and to stop a lawful function of government, the counting of the electoral votes.
And if, you know, under Section 371, the conspiracy to the fraud statute, people went to jail 100 years ago for lying to people about what — whether they had to sign up for selective service in World War I. I mean, this is just so much more significant than that.
I mean, just trying to deceive people into ending democracy in the United States — again, if it`s that`s not illegal, nothing is. It`s crazy to think that it couldn`t be. And the question, is there is there sufficient evidence of criminal intent? You know, it keeps dribbling out. There`s certainly enough evidence by a preponderance of the evidence as the judge ruled and causing this memo to come out.
And the question is, will the Justice Department, you know, once it gets — once it finishes its investigation, will it believe that it has enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And, you know, they`re working on that, as illustrated by — I mean, there was news the other day that John Eastman got a grand jury subpoena. So, anyway, it`s — these are interesting times.
HAYES: Yes, wait, I`m sorry, Eastman got a subpoena or Navarro?
CONWAY: I`m sorry, Navarro. I`m sorry.
HAYES: No, no, that`s fine. I just want to make sure —
CONWAY: With all these crazy characters —
HAYES: No, no, I just want to make sure there wasn`t like a huge news — you were breaking huge news on our program. Yes, Peter Navarro —
CONWAY: Oh, my God, I`m greatly sorry.
HAYES: Peter Navarro did get that — did get that subpoena, which is there`s a grand jury that is looking into criminal exposure here and that`s very clear. George Conway, as always, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Coming up, it`s going to be an army. New recordings a Republican operative reveal plan to potentially overturn votes in key states. We`ll talk the reporter who ran it down and broke the story. That`s next.
[20:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: There`s one takeaway from all the reporting in the wake of January 6. It is that Donald Trump`s attempted coup very well could have worked, as we`ve discussed on the show before. If just a few individuals in a few key positions had been on board with Trump`s plan, he may have been able to overturn the results of a free and fair election.
One of the schemes pushed by the ex-President and his allies was to have the states themselves throw out Biden`s victory. We saw an attempt at that in Michigan and in Georgia where there was immense pressure on election officials to put their fingers on the scale for Trump. Thankfully, it didn`t work.
[20:35:00]
Now, Republicans are doing everything they can to make sure works next time. My next guest uncovered Republican operatives who were working on quote a multi-pronged strategy to target and potentially overturn votes in Democratic precincts.
Heidi Przybyla broke this story writing from Politico, her remarkable new pieces about the ways in which the RNC and other Republican groups are plotting to contest upcoming elections in Michigan and other swing states. Heidi, great to have you on. So, just tell me a little bit about what this effort is, who`s coordinating it, and at what level they`re looking to do it.
HEIDI PRZYBYLA, WASHINGTON D.C. JOURNALIST: Right, Chris. Election legal experts I talk to all agree that this is really unprecedented attempt here by a political party, in this case, the RNC, to recruit folks, many of whom are election deniers to become actual workers, workers within the architecture of the election administration system.
Workers who would be trained beforehand in workshops sponsored by the RNC on how to contest voters as well as voting processes. Workers who will be equipped with new tools, for instance, such as a hotline, where they will be in touch constantly with roving party attorneys who can help them determine whether they have a legal challenge, whether they can file a legal challenge, as well, as a website, Chris, that`s being developed.
They contracted with a company called Zendesk, which you may be familiar with, if you`ve ever used that online software where you live chat with retailers. Well, that`s what they`re planning to use to connect these individuals with roving party attorneys. But it doesn`t stop there. There`s also a much broader network. And this is the unprecedented part as well, which is the talk of recruiting friendly district attorneys, that talk of reaching out to law enforcement in advance.
I was in Michigan, Chris, for instance, when a lot of the poll watchers, they`re untrained pole watchers who were kicked out for violating COVID protocols. They said they sought fraud. They said that they were bullied. In fact, they were violating COVID protocols and law enforcement kicked them out. This time, there`s a coordinated effort to reach out to law enforcement, even one official who talked about creating a kit to educate law enforcement on the problem of voter fraud.
Of course, we need to point out that in Michigan, there were over 250 audits done by local clerk`s as well as a Senate GOP report that found no evidence of widespread fraud. So, the bottom line here, Chris, is that there`s a lot of concern that the end effect of this would be simply to create a lot of chaos in Democratic precincts, because those are the precincts that I heard them talking about again and again on the tapes.
They were places including Detroit, Pontiac, Southfield, Flint. Those also happened to be heavily minority districts. So, what you`re talking about here are bringing in a lot of GOP Trump supporters who think that there was fraud in these minority districts to actually challenge votes and voters.
And it just gives us a window into the breadth of this strategy that, frankly, Steve Bannon has been talking about for quite some time openly on his podcast that he calls the precinct strategy, which is placing a lot of these individuals into positions of authority within the election administration system which is different than what happened in 2020, of course, where you just had a lot of untrained poll challengers, and it was easy for law enforcement as well as clerks to say, hey, no, you know, you`ve stepped over your boundaries. You got to go outside.
HAYES: OK, I just want to be clear about this, because I think the insidiousness here is key. We`re talking — you know, Ronnie — Ronna Romney McDaniel had this response that was like, well, poll watchers are literally how this works. And my understanding though is that like, there`s two kinds of people on a poll — in a precinct, right? There`s the folks that are like, administering the election or nonpartisan, right? They`re making sure you get your ballot, they`re giving you a sticker, maybe they give you a Dunkin donut. And then there`s like, usually, like one rep each of each party or campaign can have a poll watcher, right? It depends on the rules in different places. And those people are there in a kind of partisan capacity.
My understanding, though, is the plan here is that former group, the coffee, the doughnuts, the sticker people, the people who are doing all that stuff in a purely administrative capacity to essentially use them as like, undercover inside saboteurs who are then like blowing the whistle on people.
PRZYBYLA: You know, that — it is — it is a big distinction. And I`m glad that you`re making it because in her statement, she really blurred who we`re talking about here. We`re not talking about those poll watchers, right?
HAYES: Right.
PRZYBYLA: We`re talking about actually the paid nonpartisan officials who are there to actually administer the election. If you look at some of the quotes, for instance, from the video recordings you`ve heard, the election integrity director for Michigan talk about how ideally many of these people would not just be poll workers but they actually be inspectors.
And even if they`re not inspectors, they want them to do all sorts of things such as demand demos of how the machines work, demand tabulator results, make the clerk show them that the voting machines not connected to the internet, for instance. You know, all of these conspiracy theories, frankly, that we heard from 2020.
And the end impact, again of this is just potentially just create a lot of chaos and democratic precinct. You heard Trump recently say himself within the past week or so to the New York Times that he was weighing his endorsements for state legislative candidates based on individuals who would want to play — have the state legislature play a greater role in certifying elections.
Well, this is showing how something like that could bubble up at the grassroots. If you kick up enough dust, if you kick up enough legal haze, there`s a possibility to say, hey, those Democratic precincts they`re a mess, right? We can`t certify their — state legislature is going to have to step in. Other potential way to disenfranchise and cause chaos, was pointed out by an election clerk who tweeted my story today and mentioned how if you occupy these clerks in these precinct captains, your de facto disenfranchising people who have to wait in really long lines while you`re taking some of these challenges.
HAYES: Yes. I just want to be clear about what is being trained here and what the takeaway is. It`s great reporting. Heidi Przybyla, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
PRZYBYLA: Thanks.
HAYES: Coming up, President Biden says the U.S. will send advanced rocket systems to Ukraine as the focus of the war shifts to more favorable terrain for Russia and how`s the global energy landscape impacted this conflict. We`ll talk about that just ahead.
[20:45:00]
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HAYES: We`re following the latest details coming out of Tulsa, Oklahoma where a mass shooting took place at the St. Francis Hospital there earlier today. Tulsa police just finished a press conference. NBC News national correspondent Gabe Gutierrez is watching it. He`s back with me with the latest information. Gabe, what are we learning?
GUTIERREZ: Hey there, Chris. Well, several updates. First, unfortunately, the death toll has gone up. There are now at least four people dead plus the gunman, according to police. The gunman still has not been identified, but he`s believed to be between 35 and 45 years old. They are still investigating motive.
A police spokesperson was asked whether that gunman may have been targeting anybody specifically. And essentially they said that they`re looking into that at this point. But again, no motive has been established. No officers were hurt. In terms of injuries, Chris, there is no specific number but a police spokesperson that NBC News spoke with said that it`s believed to be less than 10 people injured, and they all have non-life-threatening injuries.
The suspect, according to police, had two weapons, a pistol and a long gun. Both weapons were used at the scene. It was a quick response according to police, they said that they got the call, and within three minutes, they were on the scene. Arriving officers tried to get to the second floor, tried to kick the door to the stairwell of the second floor and that the gunman then died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
So, again, Chris, the breaking news, the death toll, sadly, is now up to four in that Tulsa hospital shooting at St. Francis Hospital in Tulsa. It occurred at the Natalie building which is the newest building of that complex in Tulsa just a short time ago. Four people dead plus the gunman who is now dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Chris?
HAYES: Gabe Gutierrez, thank you so much for that update. I appreciate it. Another tragic shooting tonight in Tulsa Oklahoma, the 18th since Uvalde, Texas last week. We`ll be right back.
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HAYES: As the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues into its fourth month, there is a fork in the road in front of Ukraine and the countries that support it. Allies are beginning to wonder what is the goal, the end state for ending this conflict? What is an acceptable outcome? While the initial phase of the invasion was clearly disastrous for Russia, the fighting has now shifted towards the eastern regions of Ukraine, which puts Russia on more favorable terrain. They hold some of that terrain already, so they`re defending it.
Now, the U.S. is sending advanced rocket systems and munitions to Ukraine as part of a $700 million military package. And as of today, President Joe Biden has put up this op-ed in the New York Times explaining the U.S. will and — what the U.S. will and will not do when it comes to the invasion of Ukraine and the war there. And he notes, we will not be directly engaged in this conflict either by sending American troops to fight in Ukraine or by attacking Russian forces. We are not encouraging or enabling Ukraine to strike beyond its borders. We do not want to prolong the war just to inflict pain on Russia.
At the same time, it appears a fracture has been beginning to form on what has been the unified front of countries in Europe between countries that want to do more to help Ukraine, that is send more weapons with the goal of Ukraine winning a decisive military victory in which they kick the Russians out, and other countries who want to pressure Ukraine towards the negotiating table for some negotiated settlement.
A lot of that has to do with where those countries in Europe are getting their energy. David Wallace Wells is opinion writer from New York Times columnist for the New York Times Magazine. He`s written extensively about climate change, energy politics in his latest piece for The Times where he now has a newsletter, How Putin Has Played His Energy Cards, and he joins me. Good to have you here.
Thanks for having me. Good to be here.
Energy has loomed over this from the very beginning. And I think in the beginning, there was a sense, even in the run up before the invasion of these countries that have been kind of corrupted in some ways by their access to Russian hydrocarbons and Germany being sort of number one example. And then this sort of surprising solidarity that appeared in the wake of that. And now that seems like it`s starting to fracture as you lay out. What are the fractures here? What are the factors?
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DAVID WALLACE-WELLS, OPINION WRITER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I would start by saying, I think, you know, Europe is about to impose an oil embargo on Russian oil. And that`s a major step forward. And it means that the continent as a whole is, at least for the moment, still playing ball together and trying to fight this — the energy front in this war as one. But we don`t know exactly how long that will last.
And there is, you know, a great divergence between those countries that have some other opportunities to bring in particularly LNG liquid natural gas this year, and those who are going to be really suffering if Russia cuts off their gas going forward. So, Russia has cut off gas to Poland, Belarus, now The Netherlands, and I think they`re threatening Denmark. And if that becomes a continent wide position that they`re not going to be providing gas to any country in Europe, it`s going to mean a lot of economic pain, and some countries are going to be much — have a much harder time dealing with that and keeping the united front than others.
HAYES: Yes, and we`re already seeing this show up in inflation on the continent in Europe. It`s very high. It`s now higher than — in Europe than it is here. And their inflation is being driven more by energy prices than ours is here. And obviously, that — you know, that as we`re seeing here in the U.S. like, that — like energy, price inflation, particularly but inflation generally, it`s not just that, like U.S. voters don`t — like, basically, no one likes it and has really, really negative political effects.
WELLS: Yes. And across Europe, we`re talking about energy prices that were, you know, depending on which measure use considerably higher than they were ever in the U.S. So, they`re working from a baseline, especially when we talk about, you know, gas for the cars that is already — they`re already much closer to those pressure points. And what happens in a place as wealthy as much of at least Western Europe is, is that people, by and large, can afford to spend that money, but then they have much less money for other things.
So, it`s essentially a producer of much wider poverty across the — across the continent. That`s likely to get even worse, if the continent as a whole is pulled into a recession. That seems relatively likely if Russia really does pull the plug on gas .
HAYES: We should say the inflation just hit eight percent in May, which is the highest in the 25 years of Eurozone, right? So, they haven`t actually ever seen anything like this in the duration of the Eurozone. The other the bigger question, and these are short term questions, right, the politics of this in terms of the outcome of the war, the unity of purpose of Europe, whether there`s more pressure on Zelenskyy to find a negotiated settlement, but the broader stuff that`s the most important is the trajectory of the energy mix of Europe, and particularly what it means for the climate because Europe had been among the more ambitious nations and its Paris pledges. Some of those nations have been way further along than many others. And the question now of do you double down on that in the wake of this disruption or do you say, like, run for your lives go get as much cheap LNG as you can get.
WELLS: The problem is, you know, we`re talking about disruptions that are only going to unfold over the course of three or six months. You just can`t build infrastructure in that amount of time. So, the options are really limited here. Like, you can open up massive new solar wind capacity. Maybe you can eke out a little bit more here and there. But if we`re really dealing with a huge shortfall of you know, all the Russian gas disappearing, that`s 40 percent of Europe`s energy mix that will have to be replaced to some large degree by dirty energy sources.
I think the big long term picture is still actually relatively encouraging on climate. I think the lesson of this war is basically, we can`t do business with Petrostates anymore for climate reasons, but not only for climate reasons. But what that means in the next two or three years I think is much more complicated. And unfortunately, the climate timelines are so short, that a disruption or a delay of say, 18 months in pursuing real decarbonisation could really make some of our climate goals impossible to reach.
HAYES: Wait, explain that more.
WELLS: You know, we have to cut our carbon emissions in half by 2030. If Europe doesn`t start declining its emissions, you know, for another three or four years, that really puts them behind the eight ball and makes the math of that 1.5 degrees Celsius target much, much harder to achieve even at the global level.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, the problem, right, is that in the short term, again, this addiction, which is the metaphor we use because it`s useful, it`s like nothing illustrates more how much you don`t want to have your society and economy live on the whims of Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman than this and yet that`s where you are. And like you said, the build-outs take time, the commitment take time. They take time across different administrations, right? Like, the have to sustain political will for them. And that`s been the problem throughout.
WELLS: And all along, we`re seeing — you know, these are — these countries have us to some extent over the barrel because for the time being, we don`t have other good options. Now, if we had pursued decarbonisation faster and had brought about a more faster green energy transition, we wouldn`t have to depend on those countries and those bad actors. But unfortunately, we didn`t, and so we do.
HAYES: Best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago and second best time is now. David Wallace-Wells Thank you very much.
That is ALL IN on this Wednesday night. “MSNBC PRIME” starts now with Ayman Mohyeldin. Good evening, Ayman.