Updated
Summary
Liz Cheney concedes in WY House race; Cheney: No American should support election deniers; Polls Closed in Most of Alaska; Sarah Palin attempting political comeback with Alaska`s open House seat; Alaska using ranked-choice voting for the first time in the state`s special election for House seat; President Joe Biden signs Inflation Reduction Act; President. Biden: Every single Republican voted against lowering drug prices, against fairer tax system; NBA announces no basketball games will be played on Election Day; Judge to consider unsealing affidavit from FBI search on Thursday; DOJ: Unsealing the affidavit would cause significant and irreparable damage to “ongoing criminal investigation”; January 6 Committee investigating whether private pardon papers exist and if they`re held by Trump or aides; Executive grant of clemency for Trump ally Roger Stone among documents retrieved by FBI; Trump Team: Fmr. President Trump had a “standing order” that documents taken to residence were declassified; Atty. Gen Garland deliberated for weeks before authorizing Mar-a-Lago search
Transcript
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Welcome back, Alex Wagner. This is how we roll.
ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC HOST: Jumping into the deep end, Stephanie.
RUHLE: There you go, a double. And by the way, what are you doing from 3 to 6 A.M., we`re also available. I will hopefully be sleeping.
WAGNER: I hope so too.
RUHLE: My friend, I am happy to see you. I am so happy to have you just a few feet away.
WAGNER: Thank you.
RUHLE: Thank you.
WAGNER: And thanks to you all at home for joining us. Welcome to our special live midnight show. Just as we come on the air, polls closed across most of Alaska where primary elections are being held, as well as a special election for the states lone seat in the House where none other than Sarah Palin is looking to stage a comeback.
But we start with the big news tonight out of the great state of Wyoming where earlier tonight Congressman Liz Cheney was defeated by a Trump backed primary challenger. Congressman Cheney conceded her race because that is what you are actually supposed to do when you lose an election, concede.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Our republic relies upon the good will of all candidates for office to accept honorably the outcome of elections. And tonight Harriet Hageman has received the most votes in this primary. She won. I called her to concede the race. This primary election is over. But now, the real work begins.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Congresswoman Cheney also made a point of calling out election denying Republicans across the country and hinted that this is not the last we will hear from Liz Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Today, as we meet here, there are Republican candidates for Governor who denied the outcome of the 2020 election and who may refuse to certify future elections is they oppose the results. We have candidates for Secretary of State who may refuse to report the actual results of the popular vote in future elections. No American should support election deniers for any position of genuine responsibility where their refusal to follow the rule of law will corrupt our future.
I have said since January 6th that I will do whatever it takes to insure Donald Trump is never again anywhere near the Oval Office and I mean it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Tonight we are also keeping a close eye on the special election for Alaska`s at large House district where formal Alaska governor and 2008 vice presidential candidate, Sarah Palin is competing against two other candidates to finish the term of deceased Congressman Don Young.
Sarah Palin is, of course, in many ways the forbearer, the foremother of Donald Trump`s brash political brand. So it is no surprise that President Trump has endorsed Palin in that race. The question now, of course, is with Cheney out and Palin potentially back in, what does it mean for the Republican Party and for American democracy.
Here to give us the latest on those key races and help us break it all down is the great Steve Kornacki at the big board.
Steve, what are you hearing out of Alaska and what should we be sort of expecting on this night of nights.
STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I guess patience. You should be patient, I think, as we get results. The polls, as you say, through most of Alaska are now closed. They`ve indicated probably going to be about an hour until we start getting the results. And what we`re going to get then are votes that were cased in person today in Alaska, votes that were cast in person at early voting locations in the run-up to this election.
What`s going to take some time, what`s going to take a lot of time are votes that were cast by mail. There`s time for those that were post marked today still to come in. They can take a while to come in. The entire process here to get all of the votes tabulated could take a while and what`s really going to slow things down just in terms of getting an outcome here, this is a ranked choice voting special election.
So initially what happened was they had the initial race. There were a bunch of candidates in the rule and in Alaska now is the top four goes through to the final round. Well, the thing that happened in this race is one of the top four from the preliminary round, a Democrat named Al Gross dropped out of the race. So there`s actually only three who are on the ballot for this special election. You can see two of them are Republicans. That`s Sarah Palin and Nick Begich. And one is a Democrat that`s Mary Peltola.
So one of the theories, the most popular theory about what`s going to happen here is that by being the only Democrat on the ballot, Peltola could monopolize the Democratic vote and potentially even come in first place when all of these votes are tabulated.
If that happens then it`s a fight between Begich and Palin to get second place. And the stakes there couldn`t be higher because the way ranked choice voting works is, you know, you get the ballot, you pick your first- choice candidate, you pick your second choice, you pick your third choice.
Well, whoever comes in third here is going to be eliminated. And then their supporters` second choice preference from their ballot is going to get reallocated.
[00:05:00]
So the potential scenario here is Peltola as the Democrat getting through in first place and then a fight between Begich and Palin, whoever gets second gets a chance to get in that ranked choice round against Peltola. Whoever gets third is eliminated and is out.
They aren`t going to actually do the ranked choice tabulation until maybe either the very end of this month or the very beginning of September. Again, you got to get every ballot and every overseas ballot, every mail ballot; you got to get everything in before you can do those ranked choice calculations.
But if you`ve watched this race closely, Palin and Begich, especially in the home stretch, they have been acting like they know they are in a fight for that second-place spot where the winner`s got a real shot at winning in the ranked choice round and going to Congress and the loser is just out.
WAGNER: And adding to the confusion, of course, is the fact that we`re talking about a general election happening here and a primary election all at the same time Sarah Palin`s name is on the ballot twice. We will get to all of that and more a little bit later. Thank you, Steve. We will be patient.
Joining us now from Anchorage is Liz Ruskin, Washington Correspondent for Alaska Public Media. Liz, it is confusing and wild in Alaska, as it often is, especially when it concerns Sarah Palin. Thank you in advance for helping us understand exactly what`s going on.
So it`s a little bit complicated in terms of the actually results that we`re waiting for. What can you tell us about Palin and her sort of power and the sway she has over the Alaska Republican electorate at this stage in the game? She`s a known quantity to those of us who`ve seen her on the national stage. But how have these intervening years changed Alaskans impressions of her as she seeks a seat in Congress?
LIZ RUSKIN, ALASKA PUBLIC MEDIA WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we really haven`t heard much from her since she resigned as governor in 2009. She hasn`t held elected office; she hasn`t been very present in the state. I mean she may — she may live here but we haven`t seen her at public events or rallies or campaigning for other candidates here.
So she is trying to overcome this label of quitter and Nick Begich has been hitting her with that really hard. It`s been pretty bitter between Begich and Palin in this election.
WAGNER: Begich is a scion to an Alaska political dynasty and Trump has endorsed Palin. Which is more meaningful for Alaska voters?
RUSKIN: You know it`s really hard to say. I`ve met a lot of Trump supporters who say that they think Trump just got this wrong. And it — it — it is hard to say. I would say that people who were in here in 2009 might not have the best opinion of Palin but not everyone was — not everyone was an adult in 2009. That was a long time ago. Palin is, you know, a national celebrity and people are drawn to her because of that.
WAGNER: What of Lisa Murkowski? I mean she of course voted to convict President Trump last year for his role on January 6 and Trump has responded in typical Trump fashion not only by not endorsing her but endorsing her challenger and then conditioning his endorsement in the gubernatorial race in Alaska by insisting that the governor not support — also not support Lisa Murkowski.
So basically a horse trade, if you will. I`ll endorse you as long as you in turn do not endorse Lisa Murkowski, the sitting Senator from Alaska. Do you think that`s made any difference in any of this — in any of this? How much should Lisa Murkowski be worried about her reelection bid?
RUSKIN: Well, if we still had a closed Republican primary, yes, she`d be in big trouble. He approval ratings are very low among Republicans, but we don`t have a closed partisan primary anymore. All of the candidates will appear on the same ballot and voters will be able to rank them and a system like that really favors Murkowski.
In this primary, you know, Liz Cheney was primaried and lost in a Republican primary. Well, Murkowski is easily going to survive. She`s going to be one of the top four that advance to the general. So she certainly doesn`t have anything to worry about in tonight`s primary.
WAGNER: Let me ask you just one last question about the Democrat who may make it in this congressional ranked choice system, Ms. Peltola. She would — correct me if I`m wrong here, she would be one of the first members of the tribal nation in Alaska to make it to Congress if she succeeds, is that right?
[00:10:00]
RUSKIN: She would be the first indigenous Alaskan to be in Congress. I just spoke to her a couple minutes ago. And, yes, she`s so, you know, pretty excited and also saying it`s going to be a long time until we know.
WAGNER: All right, Liz Ruskin Washington, Correspondent for Alaska Public Media. Thank you for your time tonight. We`ll be patient.
I am now thrilled to bring in the host of “The Last Word,” the great Lawrence O`Donnell. Lawrence, there`s no better night to talk to you about this, when we get to talk about Liz Cheney, daughter of Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin`s potential return to the — well, to Washington, not the U.S. House of Representatives (inaudible).
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: I`m here under one condition, I don`t have to say anything about rank choice voting.
WAGNER: No, you don`t.
O`DONNELL: Whatever — let`s — whenever —
WAGNER: It`s in your writer.
O`DONNELL: — Steve Kornacki does it I feel like I understand it for the first 30 seconds.
WAGNER: And then you`re —
O`DONNELL: And then I just — I`m just gone.
WAGNER: It`s complicated.
O`DONNELL: It is.
WAGNER: And it goes on for a while.
O`DONNELL: It really — it is a job. It makes voting a job. Listen, this is a very, very special night, for young voters especially, because you can go decades, I personally have just gone about 30 years in the space between I`ve — the time I`ve seen politicians lose an election over a principle.
Liz Cheney lost over on principle tonight.
WAGNER: Principle.
O`DONNELL: The last time I saw that at a prominent level, I`m sure it`s happened in smaller local elections, was Mario Cuomo here in the state of New York 28 years ago. He wouldn`t change his position to favor the death penalty and that was it.
And he knew that he was going to lose if he doesn`t do that. He wouldn`t do it. And so, there is nothing more noble in politics than losing on principle. And that`s one of the reasons why concessions speeches can sometimes be the best speech politicians ever make.
WAGNER: Well, and I think of Ted Kennedy`s concessions speech in 1980, where he coined one of his most famous phrases. I guess I wonder, speaking of Liz Cheney and let`s spend some time on that, in her concession speech she said, the — this primary election is over, but now the real work begins.
O`DONNELL: Well so, that`s what`s so amazing about this concession speech. It`s the most combative concession speech I`ve ever heard. She concedes the election. She gets that done so fast. And then she goes on to, here`s who I`m going to continue to fight against, and it`s Donald Trump, who she technically wasn`t running against. And her vow to fight against Donald Trump includes invoking Abraham Lincoln.
WAGNER: Yes.
O`DONNELL: It includes invoking General Grant. It is the strongest vow she could possibly have made, which means we now do have a genuine leader of the anti-Trump movement in the Republican Party. It`s a really —
WAGNER: It`s giving them a home.
O`DONNELL: Yes. There really hasn`t been that person who was totally free. Now she`s going to be free of the job of being a member of Congress, so she`s totally free to be out there, whether it`s as a presidential candidate or not, as the leader. She — she`ll be on all the shows that want that leading spokesperson in the Republican world against Donald Trump, who is still a Republican.
You know, we have plenty here, Stuart Stevens and others who`ve abandoned the Party —
WAGNER: Yes.
O`DONNELL: — who were strong Republicans. But she`s fighting for the survival of the Republican Party without Donald Trump.
WAGNER: Yes, I mean, I guess the question is, you know, the battle — who are her foot soldiers in that battle? Certainly, there`s some never- Trumpers. Certainly, there`s some Democrats.
O`DONNELL: They would fit —
WAGNER: But can she —
O`DONNELL: — in a very small van at this point. Yes.
WAGNER: Yes. I mean, the question is, can she pull some Republicans over? I guess I wonder, as a creature of Capitol Hill, does her departure from Congress make Kevin McCarthy`s life easier or harder? Because I think the conventional wisdom would be, Kevin McCarthy is probably saying to Liz Cheney, don`t let the door hit you on the way out.
At the same time, I`m sure there are people in Kevin McCarthy`s caucus who are much more radical than he is in terms of the support for Trump and who remember Kevin McCarthy`s statements in the days after January 6, saying, this is Donald Trump`s fault.
And they`re — as much as Kevin McCarthy may do the work of trying to convince Republicans and hardcore Trumpists that he`s one of them, the fact of the matter is, his previous record does not show him to be.
And I wonder if the ouster of Cheney increases the fervor to really purge the party of anybody who might be seen as somehow, even tangentially in the deepest recesses of their mind, a rhino?
O`DONNELL: Well, it was a successful purge. Kevin McCarthy began it by getting her out of the leadership in the House, getting her off his team. And then Donald Trump said, let — in effect, let`s get her out of Congress completely. So, that purge has worked.
Kevin McCarthy is, as far as we can tell, the most simpleminded leader of a House Party in my lifetime, that we`ve ever seen, because he doesn`t care at all about having a range of opinions within his Party in the House, which is always important in the following way.
When the people on the right side of your Party are saying, we need to do this, we need to do this, Kevin McCarthy needs to be able to say to them, oh we can`t do it, we can`t get those New York Republicans, we can`t — you know — there`s a — there`s a faction we can`t get.
[00:15:05]
WAGNER: Cautionary word.
O`DONNELL: Yes. Therefore, it tames the wild impulses, you know, of a House Party. And so, each Party has always had that. That Nancy Pelosi`s always been able to say, listen I`d love to, I`m a San Francisco liberal, but we won`t be able to get, right. So, let`s try to put it here instead of there.
McCarthy seems to want no moderating voices whatsoever in the Party. He wants to simply take Trumpism as if it`s the Catholic Catechism that I grew up with and just read it word-for-word and wants no one missing a word of it.
WAGNER: But, and strategically that could be deeply problematic for him.
O`DONNELL: Yes, it —
WAGNER: I mean, he could be Speaker of the House and will then — I mean, I — the flashbacks to John Boehner and the impossibility of governing a caucus it feels, especially a radicalized caucus and getting anything done. I mean, he hasn`t really learned anything it seems.
Let me just get you quickly on Sarah Palin. Lawrence, is this a day for Republicans of yesteryear to wear black armbands as they look at potentially the ascension of Palin and the departure of Cheney? I mean —
O`DONNELL: You know, I`m so glad you had a guest from Alaska, to remind me at least, when she just used that phrase, she`s being hit with the fact that she`s a quitter. And it wasn`t even explained. She quit the governorship, which I forgot because so many insane things happened in our politics since then.
WAGNER: It`s (inaudible).
O`DONNELL: Like that was supposed to be the most insane thing for the next 20 years, but then came Donald Trump. And so, you know, this governor who simply quit —
WAGNER: Yes.
O`DONNELL: — in the middle of the job is now saying, “You know what, give me a two-year term as a member of the House.”
WAGNER: I can make it across that finish line.
O`DONNELL: “Maybe I won`t quit that, because it`s only two years.”
WAGNER: Quitters versus losers, you don`t want to be either one in today`s Republican Party. Lawrence O`Donnell, thank you very much for staying up late tonight.
O`DONNELL: An honor to be with you tonight.
WAGNER: My friend, let`s do many more of these.
In just a minute we are going to be joined by one of the very few people who can relate to what Liz Cheney is going through tonight. Congressman Adam Kinzinger is the only other Republican on the House January 6 committee.
He knows what it is like to face an angry Trump-fueled Republican base. He sure does. And we have a lot to ask him tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:22:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Donald Trump made a purposeful choice to violate his oath of office, to ignore the ongoing violence against law enforcement, to threaten our constitutional order. There is no way to excuse that behavior. It was indefensible.
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): President Trump urged others to bring his big lie to life. He was willing to sacrifice our republic to prolong his presidency. I can imagine no more dishonorable act by a president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Both Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger launched their careers in Congress as Republican Party darlings with bright futures, and now they both sit on the January 6 Committee, investigating Trump and shining a light on his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. They both also voted to impeach the former president in January 2021 for his role in the January 6 attack. Only eight other House Republicans joined them while the rest of the party coalesced around Donald Trump.
For all those reasons, the Republican National Committee formally censured both Cheney and Kinzinger earlier this year. And tonight, both of them will be out of Congress by the end of this year.
In October of last year, Congressman Kinzinger announced he would not seek reelection for his seat in Illinois, and tonight after an uphill primary battle to keep her congressional seat in Wyoming, Congresswoman Liz Cheney conceded with just 62 percent of the vote in. She had already lost too much ground to her challenger, the Trump-backed Cheney-critic, Harriet Hageman. Hageman has more than 63 percent of the current vote total. Cheney conceded with less than 33 percent.
It is another rough primary night for Republicans who have stood up to Donald Trump, and there is one person in American politics who knows and understand what it is like to be in Liz Cheney`s position. That is Congressman Adam Kinzinger from Illinois, fellow member of the January 6 Committee.
I spoke to him earlier tonight about how his friend and his colleague was approaching this day and this race. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WAGNER: Congressman Kinzinger, thank you so much for being here tonight.
And I sort of would begin by saying I wish we were meeting under better circumstances given where the polls have been trending in terms of Cheney`s fate. I`d ask you as one of the few people that`s been going through this with her from inside the same party, what has it been like being on the committee with Liz Cheney? Has there been camaraderie, or gallows humor? What is that relationship been like for the two of you?
(LAUGHTER)
KINZINGER: Yes. Look, it`s been pretty amazing. I mean, this committee just outside of just Liz and I, this is like probably never happened in history and it likely will never happen again. You have a committee that is focused on getting the truth, getting to the answers, getting done what needs to be done. We thank Kevin McCarthy for pulling his members because it`s made it a lot easier for us to get to the truth.
[00:25:00]
But with Liz, look – and I feel the same way – is if I went back 20 months and made the decision about, you know, am I going to impeach Donald Trump, I would have done it in a heartbeat, and Liz feels the same way. You know, it`s like what is it for a man to gain the world but lose his soul? And I think as we`ve gotten into this committee, you know, Liz and I get along really well.
My respect for her was huge, by the way, prior to even all this, and it`s grown immensely. She`s very determined, very dogged, and she will chase Donald Trump to the gates of Hell for sure.
WAGNER: Did – have you talked to her about her candidacy? Have you talked to her in advance of, you know, election night tonight?
KINZINGER: Yes. I`ve kind of let her, you know, be for the last kind of 12 hours or so or 24 hours. I think she obviously recognizes this is an uphill challenge. I thinks he made the decision that she`s going to go down firing. And you know, a miracle could obviously happen tonight, but even if it`s a little closer than what people expected, you know, but the bottom line is I think this is sending a very strong message that this isn`t your dad`s Republican Party anymore. This isn`t a party that`s committed to truth. This is a party that`s committed to conspiracy.
Mark and your prior – your guest had said something about, you know, people in Congress now don`t really believe it. I don`t think they do believe the Big Lie and the conspiracies. What I worry about is the next generation of people that have just been elected. They`re going to be here next year. They do believe these conspiracies. That`s very frightening.
WAGNER: You talk – I mean, you`ve been pretty explicit about the sort of moral wrestling that you`ve had to do, the personal like anguish you`ve been in in terms of some of these votes and coming out against Trump, and I want to quote from an interview you did with “The Washington Post”. You said, you talked about the fact that in 2016 you didn`t vote for Trump, and then in 2020 you did, which is not the normal pattern for people in your position, right?
And you talked about that vote pretty honestly. You said, “I decided to vote for him in 2020, that way I can say with a straight face I voted for him. I know he`s not going to win, but I can say I did it. And so, I have credit with the base.” But you told “The Post” you felt, quote, “dirty”, casting that ballot in 2020. “It is not something I can square away in my soul fully.” Do you think other members of Congress are facing the same internal anguish when they make these calls?
KINZINGER: How can you not? I mean, look, I think it`s important to be open and honest about that. It was a cowardice vote for me. There`s a lot of cowardice votes that are being taken daily in the House, and I got to tell you besides, you know, just a few of my colleagues, there are so many that I know have stuffed down that kind of the little bird on your shoulder, the little angel that`s whispering, “You`re really destroying this country with these votes and who you`re supporting.” They`ve stuffed it down. They`ve tried to justify it by saying, well, if I don`t run again, somebody crazier is going to come
But what`s happened is people like Kevin McCarthy. Kevin McCarthy bears 90 percent of the weight I think for Donald Trump`s return. He is a failed leader who has absolutely no – nothing more than his own power in his mind, and he resurrected Donald Trump. I got to tell you if he`s ever around a mirror I can`t imagine that`s easy to look at unless he`s just that cold and calculated.
WAGNER: But you – I mean, you were an ally. Kevin McCarthy was an ally of yours when you came into office. You were one of his proteges if you will. Did you not see that back then that he was just nakedly after power, or do you think something changed?
KINZINGER: Well, I guess in hindsight you can see that. You know? I knew he was a very good politician, and he is. He just he goes with the wind. He goes where, you know, it`s going to take him to higher power. He knows everybody`s name, you know. He knows something about you, and I knew that there was a lot of politiciany (ph) to that, but at the time at least, you know, we didn`t have Donald Trump yet.
When I – when he came and you all of a sudden start seeing people – it`s not just about differences of opinion. We need differences of opinions in this country, but it`s about swallowing authoritarian moves, destroying the Constitution, and changing how we respect the government. And I saw him start working on behalf of Trump for that and not lead.
I mean, Liz Cheney and I can speak out against Donald Trump, and we`re going to keep doing this. Kevin McCarthy`s the one that people would listen to. He`s a leader, and he`s too cowardice to do it, and people need to recognize that.
WAGNER: I mean, there`s the power aspect of it, but then there are people who legitimately believe that you`re leaving the party, as it were, to hold Trump accountable is a moral abomination, and some of those people are in your own family. You shared I believe a letter right after you called for Trump to be removed from office under the 25th Amendment. 11 members of your family sent you this letter. I`ll just quote some choice lines.
“Adam, oh my. What a disappointment you are to us and to God. We were once so proud of your accomplishments. Instead you go against your Christian principles and join the Devil`s army – the Democrats and the fake news media.”
[00:30:00]
WAGNER: Accomplishments. Instead you go against your Christian principles and join the devil`s army, the Democrats and the fake news media.
Adam, they are not going to like this appearance this evening on MSNBC. But, I mean, you know what happened with Kevin McCarthy, right? I mean, that`s a fairly ABC, you know, I can be maybe the next speaker of the house, I`m Kevin McCarthy, I`m going to stay in power. But what about members of your own family?
And I ask that, not just to get you to, you know, be critical of members of your own family, but because I think they`re representative of a lot of Republicans in the country who don`t hold elected office and are enthralled to Donald Trump and are voting against Liz Cheney, who otherwise, is everything you could want from a conservative Republican.
KINZINGER: Yes, I think it`s an important thing to talk about. So first off, I`ve come to believe over the last year that people more than even fearing death, we`re such a tribalistic people that they fear being kicked out of their tribe and so you accept anything because now Republicanism or Conservatism, or Trumpism becomes your identity, and so you`re going to stay.
Now, my family, look, they`re my dad`s cousins. I`m going to say this as a Christian myself, the pastors — many pastors in this country are failing their congregation. Not even just by pushing kind of Trumpism from the pulpit, but even refusing to talk about how bad it is, how corrosive it is.
And you have people today that literally, I think in their heart they may not say it, but they equate Donald Trump with the person of Jesus Christ, and to them, if you even come out against this amazing man Donald Trump, which I mean, obviously quite flawed, you are coming out against Jesus, against their Christian values. And when you go after their religion that violates the depth of who they are. And I`ve been kicked out of my tribe, and that`s OK.
WAGNER: And you seem OK with it. You are doing it with your head held high. I guess I want to just close this out by asking you about, tonight we may see the departure of Liz Cheney for all intents and purposes from Congress.
Sarah Palin is in a primary in Alaska, may very well make it to Congress as the lone Congressperson from Alaska, may being the operative word there. Donald Trump is suggesting he may run again in 2024. What do you think the road ahead is? You won`t be in Congress, but you know what`s going on with the GOP, what happens now?
KINZINGER: Well, I like a lot of people, feel politically homeless. This obviously is nothing near the party I joined. I have a movement, it`s country first, country1st.com, and we`ve actually — we`ve played against Madison Cawthorn, we`ve played on behalf of Brad Raffensperger, we`ve played in Michigan and some other places.
What we`re trying to do is to say to Democrats that live in a district that you know is going to go Republican, one of those that`s not competitive. Hey, in certain areas consider taking out a Republican ballot and voting against these crazies.
So I personally am going to be focused on that, and I love calling out the garbage that is being done to abuse people. The abusive e-mails that say seven times match, or just give me $10, or Donald Trump knows you haven`t given this quarter. It`s all lies. And it`s abusing people, many of which are seniors and on a fixed income.
So I`m excited to be able to go out and continue to fight that battle, because somebody`s got to. People are being just abused, and obviously the Republicans have become a cult, so I`m going to try to pull people from that cult if I can.
WAGNER: (Inaudible) Congressman Adam Kinzinger you seem ready for the fight, member of the January 6 Committee. Best of luck with all of your efforts and thank you for your time tonight.
KINZINGER: Thank you. Congratulations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WAGNER: Still ahead here tonight, new details in the search at Mar-a-Lago, a judge sets a hearing to decide whether we can see the reasoning behind the DOJ`s search of Trump`s country club home.
And next, President Biden has some fun with his former boss on Twitter, the BFD they are talking about is the brand-new law that Biden signed today, the biggest investment in fighting climate change this country has ever made. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:38:49]
WAGNER: Today President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act into law, despite the colossal understatement of a name, the bill is the largest climate investment of U.S. history. It lowers healthcare costs for millions of Americans, it makes sure that big corporations pay their fair share in taxes, and the whole thing will not only reduce the deficit, but yes, it will fight inflation too. So the name isn`t completely off base, but you understand what I mean.
Democrats and the Biden administration have been hammering home those messages since this agreement was reached, as they should. But President Biden didn`t just brag about what this bill will do today, he also used it as a very real example of why elections matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And let`s be clear, in this historic moment, Democrats sided with the American people and every single Republican in the Congress sided with the special interest in this vote. Every single Republican in Congress voted against lowering prescription drug prices, against lowering healthcare costs, against the fairer tax system.
Every single Republican, every single one voted against tackling the climate crisis, against lowering our energy costs, against creating good paying jobs.
[00:40:00]
My fellow Americans, that`s the choice we face.
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WAGNER: With less than 90 days until the midterms, the message here is pretty clear. If you want more progressive stuff done to help people and the planet then help elect more Democrats. And that is what brings me to some other very good news tonight.
Some of the key obstacles Democrats are facing this November are threats to voting itself. Whether it is the tidal wave of voter suppression laws, the harassment of election officials or the increasing extremism of the conspiracy theorists who believe the 2020 election was stolen. It is getting really hard to just vote in lots of places across the country.
Today, the NBA, the National Basketball Association, announced a new plan to make voting easier. Yes, easier. The NBA effectively made Election Day a league holiday. No basketball games will be played on Election Day. No basketball games. And on top of that the night before Election Day every single NBA team will have a game and the teams will use that game as an opportunity to encourage fans to get out and vote. It`s almost like a high school pep rally but with national implications.
This was Atlanta State Farm Arena in 2020 where the Atlanta Hawks play. More than 40,000 people cast their ballots there that year. Biden won Georgia, if you remember, by fewer than 12,000 votes. Twice as many people voted at the Bulls` Stadium, the United Center than at any other polling place in the City of Chicago.
In 2020, a total of 23 teams made their arenas and practice facilities into polling and voting related sites. They hosted poll worker training, ballot drop-offs and voter registration. Nearly 300,000 Americans voted in NBA team arenas in 2020, which to put it in perspective, is more people than there are registered voters in the entire of Wyoming.
When an entertainment or sports group does something political it is often more window dressing or brand management than at substance. But this is different, elections matter. Facilitating elections matters. Getting out the vote matters. And for a change, man it is great to have some good news to report.
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WAGNER: It has been eight days since the FBI searched former President Trump`s Palm Beach home. And just four days since a federal judge released the search warrant revealing that the FBI had taken 11 sets of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago including several top secret sets of documents. In the days since we`ve learned that Attorney General Merrick Garland deliberated for weeks about whether or not to approve the application for the search warrant of Trump`s home, that is how sensitive it was.
Amidst all of this though there is one important element that we have not gotten a lot of information on. We have not gotten access to the underlying sworn affidavit by an FBI agent that outlines why there was probable cause to think evidence of federal crimes would be found at Mar-a-Lago. That affidavit was essentially the basis for the search warrant.
The Justice Department has said that releasing that affidavit the public would quote, “Cause significant and irreparable damage to this ongoing criminal investigation because the investigation involves highly classified materials”. But despite that, today a federal judge set a hearing to decide whether or not to unseal the affidavit. That is scheduled for this Thursday.
As we wait to hear what happens on that front, I do want to bring up one point that seems potentially under explored in the analysis of the search warrant materials. One of the documents FBI agents uncovered and took with them from Mar-a-Lago was listed as a quote, “Executive grant of clemency regarding Roger Jason Stone, Jr.”.
You may remember that Trump granted not one but two executive grants of clemency for his old friend and advisor, Roger Stone. So there could be a totally innocent and truly boring explanation here. Maybe there was just an extra copy of that grant of clemency lying around and that extra copy just happened to be on top of or next to the classified documents that the FBI picked up.
But maybe not, and maybe there is more to it. Last week, the day after the FBI executed a search warrant at Trump`s Florida home, Robert Costa, a CBS NEWS reported that quote, “Some January 6 Committee members have been investigating quietly the tail, sorry the trail of Trump`s documents for months about pardons and are probing whether any private pardon papers exist. And if so, if they`re held by Trump/aides.”
We have no idea what that Roger Stone clemency document could be, the one that the FBI took from Mar-a-Lago. But it could have been a private pardon. Meaning a pardon Trump granted secretly without the Justice Department or virtually anyone else knowing. There is no way to tell right now. There`s no way.
But if this reporting is correct, that the January 6th Committee is investigating whether or not private pardon papers exist, well now then you have my attention. And I have just the person to ask right here about this.
My next guest has quite the resume. She spent 18-years as a federal prosecutor in Birmingham, Alabama before becoming a U.S. attorney in 2009. She was one of the first five U.S. attorneys, there she is, to be nominated by President Barack Obama when he took office.
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In fact, she was the first female U.S. attorney he named and was then unanimously confirmed by the Senate, no small feat. Joyce Vance spent nearly the entirety of Barack Obama`s two terms as President, almost eight years, as the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama.
That`s why she`s here, I mean, among other reasons. Joining us now, Joyce Vance. It is so great to have you here. Thank you for joining me, Joyce.
JOYCE VANCE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Good to see you, Alex.
WAGNER: So, I want to explore this private pardon papers scenario, right? The fact that this Roger Stone clemency document was taken when the FBI seized papers from Mar-a-Lago, normally pardons go through the DOJ`s, I believe it is Office of the Pardon, right?
VANCE: The pardon attorney, right, who routinely handles all pardons.
WAGNER: Is it possible that Trump has a stash of private pardon papers that might intersect with some of the things he did around January 6?
VANCE: My temptation is to tell you absolutely not, it`s impossible. But this is Trump that we`re talking about, right? he didn`t do things like anyone else. The reason you have a pardon attorney is so there`s an official record of a president granting pardons while he`s in office, the only time he has access to the pardon powers.
It`s very broad and expansive. Could Trump have done these privately? I suppose he could have, but there`s one limitation, even Trump would have to create some form of a record that that pardon was issued while he was in office, right? He doesn`t today at Mar-a-Lago have the power to pardon anyone.
WAGNER: Despite what he might say. I mean, I think one of the reasons this is interesting is because of all the other rhetoric that`s coming out of Trump land, vis-a-vis these documents as Mar-a-Lago, right? We know that Trump is the person that`s saying he had sort of unilateral capabilities to declassify information and that all of the things he took with him to Mar- a-Lago were things that he had declassified.
I mean, effectively — I`ll read the statement. President Trump, in order to prepare for work the next day often took documents, including classified documents to the residence. He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them.
Like boom, I can declassify something by virtue of the fact that I`m Donald Trump. Someone who thinks he has that power to just boom, declassify things, could also maybe think he has the power to issue pardons willy- nilly without having to go through the appropriate channels.
VANCE: You know, it`s not beyond belief. I got stuck though on the part that you read, at the part where he was saying to prepare for work the following morning, right? It just defied belief. But I think that you`re right, that this is someone who is never constrained by normal, smooth operations in the White House which depended upon creating a record because we`re a rule of law country, and we keep records and record these sorts of items whether it`s a classification of important national security documents, or reflecting pardons granted by a president.
WAGNER: When we talk about the documents in and around the Mar-a-Lago, I will call it scandal but investigation seizure, there`s a lot of interest in this affidavit from the FBI agent to explain why they were going down there. A judge is going to have a hearing on that on Thursday, what is your expectation from that? And if the affidavit isn`t released, should we infer anything from that about the seriousness of this investigation?
VANCE: Well, the affidavit is always the juicy part of the search warrant, everything else is filling out papers that, to some extent, are boilerplate. But in the affidavit, as you laid out, the agent collects all of the information that has led the government to believe that there`s a crime that merits investigation.
So you, and I, and everybody else out there who`s listening wants to read that. But DOJ`s interest is in keeping all of that secret. And they lay it out in this motion that you began to read from. And here`s the problem from where I sat as a prosecutor.
If someone could read by agent`s affidavit, they would have a road map for where I was going next in the investigation. And there are real problems, particularly when you have a situation where witnesses could be intimidated future witnesses might not come forward, right? I mean, this is a real sort of a risk here.
Some sorts of information that are contained in affidavits can`t be released. Anything that`s obtained using the grand jury, legally has to remain private prior to charges being brought. And then because of the nature of this case there`s the entire spectra (ph) of classified information being included in the affidavit. I would be stunned if the judge ruled that this warrant — that this affidavit should be unsealed and released to the public.
WAGNER: And I mean, let`s be clear, Merrick Garland apparently, according to our reporting, wrestled with this decision to raid Mar-a-Lago for weeks. He is not known as a knee jerk, shoot from the hip attorney general kind of dude. The fact that we are admitting it`s an ongoing criminal investigation, these are all measurable, tangible signals that this is pretty serious.
VANCE: I think that that`s right, so I have to push back a little bit on the characterization of it as a raid —
WAGNER: Yes.
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VANCE: — because this was a search warrant that a federal judge authorized based on probable cause, which I know you know —
WAGNER: And we will be careful with our language on this.
VANCE: But I think the second part of what you`ve said is something that hasn`t been said enough and that`s very important. The whole country`s been waiting to see what Merrick Garland is doing. This week Merrick Garland told us that he has a criminal investigation, and he had the authority from that judge to go in and seize the office at Mar-a-Lago called 45.
WAGNER: Merrick Garland, nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Joyce Vance, former U.S. Attorney, thank you for being here tonight, Joyce, I sincerely appreciate it.
We`ll be right back.
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WAGNER: Before we go, I just want to thank my talented and esteemed colleagues for all the work that they have done over the past few weeks and months as we`ve built this show from the very bottom up. Ali Velshi, Mehdi Hasan, Ayman Mohyeldin (ph) have done incredible work holding down this hour ahead of our launch, and for that I am incredibly and forever grateful.