Updated
Summary
DOJ appeals judge`s ruling on classified docs seized at Trump`s Mar- a-Lago. Special master Raymond Dearie to review all 11,000 documents seizes from Mar-a-Lago. Trump team claimed boxes at Mar-a-Lago were only news clippings. Democrats pick up momentum heading into midterms. Ukraine finds mass grave near city of Izyum. Lizzo emphasizes the need for representation.
Transcript
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, the Justice Department`s appeal of a Trump appointed judge`s ruling in Mar-a-Lago documents case, why they want part of the decision overturned and what it could mean for the investigation?
Plus, the atrocities of war. A mass grave discovered as Ukraine retakes a key territory once held by Russia. President Zelenskyy`s former press secretary is here.
Then viral videos of joy, young black girls reacting to the new casting of The Little Mermaid why this representation is so important, but not without backlash? As THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on a Friday night.
Good evening, once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle and we have got breaking news in the legal showdown over those classified documents seized from Donald Trump`s Florida club. The fight over those highly sensitive records now heads to a federal appeals court. Just hours ago, the Justice Department filed its appeal for part of Judge Aileen Cannon`s latest ruling.
Tonight, DOJ is asking the appeals court to block Cannon`s order preventing the Justice Department from using classified documents that were recovered at Mar-a-Lago. On Thursday, Cannon named another judge Raymond Dearie, a special master in the case. She wants him to finish going through all 11,000 documents taken from Trump`s club by November 30. And he is already getting started.
Today, he told both the DOJ and Trump`s legal team to appear in court for a meeting on Tuesday.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post reports Donald Trump`s team misrepresented the documents that were taken to Mar-a-Lago. The Post writing this, months before the National Archives officials retrieved hundreds of classified documents in 15 boxes from the former president`s Mar-a-Lago club, they were told that none of the material was sensitive or classified. And Trump only had 12 boxes of, “news clippings.”
According to people familiar with the conversations between Trump`s team and the archives. Earlier this evening, Congressman Eric Swalwell spoke to my colleague Chris Hayes, about the possibility of Trump still having classified documents in his possession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Are you convinced that the FBI has everything that he might have at this point?
REP. ERIC SWALWELL, (D) CALIFORNIA: No, no, Chris, if he has top secret documents, certainly on the other side of his possession of that, we would want to know what foreign nationals has he been in contact with, what foreign nationals around Mar-a-Lago has he been in contact with?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: I want to know all of the above. And with that, let`s get smarter with the help of a superstar lead off panel tonight. Neal Katyal joins us, Department of Justice veteran and former acting Solicitor General during the Obama administration. He has argued dozens of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court. Harry Litman joins me right here at 30 Rock, former U.S. attorney and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General and Charlie Savage is here, Washington Correspondent for The New York Times author of Power Wars: The Relentless Rise of Presidential Authority and Secrecy.
Charlie, within the last hour you wrote the breaking news article covering all of this ruling, what do we need to know?
CHARLIE SAVAGE, THE NEW YORK TIMES WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: So, the bottom line is the Justice Department had gone yesterday to the federal judge who imposed this special master and said look, we can acquiesce to there being a master, we can acquiesce to not being allowed to touch 11,000 documents that we seized from President Trump`s — former President Trump`s home and club. But we can`t live with not being able to have immediate, unfettered access to the 100 or so documents marked as classified. Please stay that portion of your order just so we can keep investigating those documents. And she said no.
And so tonight, they went to the 11th Circuit, the federal appeals court that oversees Florida, based in Atlanta, and they are asking for it to issue a stay of just that portion of a ruling that would allow them to resume unfettered access just to the 100 or so documents with classification markings, which they say is important for a variety of national security reasons, Stephanie.
RUHLE: Neal, what do you think the most important thing you learned tonight?
NEAL KATYAL, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, I think the most important thing is that the Justice Department is fighting this, they gave this judge a chance, a lifeline because, you know her two decisions are literally the two most atrocious decisions I`ve ever read by a trial judge. And that`s saying a lot but they`re really, really pathetically bad. And what the, you know, the government said look, these 100 days documents are highly sensitive national security documents and there are three reasons why judge you should at least let these documents allow us to use these documents and look at them.
[23:05:11]
One is because we need them in a criminal investigation because we`re the subject of the criminal investigation. Two, they`re really important to our national security assessment and whether or not spies in the field or sources and methods are compromised. And three, the sheet they`ve told her, there is no chance in the world that Donald Trump owns these government documents. These are classified, highly sensitive documents. And you know, Donald Trump, you`re watching a little too much British TV about Prince Charles, you`re trying to think you`re the king or something like that. No chance that you own these documents. Those are the three arguments.
Judge — the judges blew them off yesterday. And so, the Justice Department today filed essentially the same brief as what they filed before her saying no chance these are government — there`s no chances Trump`s documents, whatever you think about the special master, and you know, even Bill Barr called that a — that Trump`s request there, a crock of BS word. And here, you know, this is like double crocs or something like that. Because this is the most sensitive part of that.
And so, what the Justice Department was saying is whatever you think of a special master, in general, for attorney client information, or this or that, for these 100 documents, there`s no chance in the world you need a special master. And, you know, that is a very, very strong appeal, Steph, I mean strong as it gets.
RUHLE: OK, but Neal, here`s what I don`t get, it doesn`t actually matter what Bill Barr says he`s just a TV pundit and author, a private citizen. You could call the judge cray, cray, all day, you could call her ruling atrocious, but she`s the judge. She makes the decision. And like King Charles, she`s on the bench for life.
KATYAL: Yeah, I mean, look, I`m not going to characterize her motivations. I don`t know what they are. She`s just wrote really a terrible ruling. And the one good thing about the American legal system is that there is a Court of Appeals. And, you know, this Court of Appeals will take a look at this. And it is incredibly hard stuff to think that this legal reasoning can survive. I mean, I think I`ve taught more than 2000 students at Georgetown Law School, I can`t think of one student who had right away a worse opinion and this thing.
RUHLE: Wow, Harry, what do you think?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I think he doesn`t like it?
RUHLE: OK, Harry`s assessment, Neal Katyal doesn`t like it.
LITMAN: But it`s more than that. So, everything Neal said —
RUHLE: It`s more than what Neal said. Of the 2000 he`s ever talk, it is more than that, yes.
LITMAN: Here`s a quarter. Look, it`s not a matter of sort of liberal versus conservative judicial philosophy. It`s not a matter of a slant on facts. It really is a completely incoherent opinion. So, I know that`s been — it`s been trashed right and left, but really with justification. And we`re now at a Court of Appeals. It`s a conservative court. But it`s the same kind of argument. They say, look, let`s go back to first principles. He`s sued under a special statute that says, I have — I write to have these. And the department has just come in as they did before her and said, no way, no how, forget about it eight ways to Sunday, and they`re just right there.
The one thing that she said to sort of go his way was she adopted his argument, and this is it. I`m not kidding. Maybe they`re not classified, even though the government says they are. That`s now imagine if we ran our classification system that way that the, you know, the government executive branch made a decision, but it was just a sort of recommendation for a sole district court judge in Palm Beach, Florida.
It really is a matter of he`s got no way out of the gate. And therefore, for these 100 they`re being very sort of strategic and tempered and modest for these 100. There`s no argument and we`re, you know, there`s no way even to try to give legal reasoning for it. And hers was threadbare at best.
RUHLE: Neal, Andrew Weissmann broke this down and basically said, imagine you were fired from your job. And before you left that job, you steal the most precious valuable things from your company. You took those items to your house. Months later, the company says, yo, you got to give that stuff back. You say no, I don`t have it. You don`t give it back. It then gets pulled back. And you then sue the company saying, I`m going to need that stuff back, it belongs to me. Is that what Trump is doing here?
KATYAL: Yes. And even worse, what the government`s filing tonight is talking about this, this this concept of irreparable harm because government is seeking what`s technically called an emergency stay. They want to relief temporary relief from this ridiculous ruling. And in order to get that you do have to show some sort of reparable harm. And here the government showing, Stephanie, of irreparable harm is as strong a case as is imaginable.
[23:10:15]
What they are saying is, look, right now, we have spies in the field. And, you know, some of them — you know, maybe work for foreign governments or who knows what they — you know, what their day job is, and they`re risking their lives to get the United States information. Now, if you`re one of those spies, and you now know that Donald Trump brought all these highly classified sensitive documents about human source information, and Lord knows who got to see those documents. You know, you`re going to — if you`re that spy, you`re not going to want to be providing information to the United States government right now, you`re going to shut up, and you`re going to be worried that, you know, you might get killed.
And so, the government wants to assess all the national security implications of what Donald Trump was doing. And if they have to yank those spies from the field to save their lives or their family lives, they need to do that. And what this judge said is, oh, I don`t really buy that sworn affidavit from the FBI and the like, and it`s outweighed by the EPA irreparable harm to Donald Trump. What was the harm to him, his reputation? Because unlike you and me, Steph, this judge said, he`s a former president, does former presidents get special rights? This is unAmerican. It`s Soviet. It`s as bad as it gets. And Andrew Weissmann is exactly correct.
RUHLE: The former presidents get special rights, especially when as Neal points out, this content could people — could be putting people`s lives at risk?
LITMAN: Only in the Southern District of Florida. I mean, it`s exact — it`s such an abrogation of basic principles. And I just want to underscore one thing, Neal said she had an affidavit in front of her that lays it all out in chapter and verse. We are — you are a public enemy, there is current danger to the national security. And she just said, I don`t quite buy it. I`m not — and there was nothing on the other side. This is not again, a sort of subtle liberal versus conservative, this is just right versus wrong.
RUHLE: Then how long can this appeal take? Because there is one thing Donald Trump we know likes to do? Slow the game, draw this out as long as possible. Yes, now they filed this appeal. What`s the timing?
LITMAN: Right, and the process that she`s laid out not in the appeal could be a recipe for real delay with a special master going through executive privilege docs. But as Neal says, are going to file for an emergency stay, that`s a few days, and I expect they`re going to get it. And so, we`re looking at, you know, middle of the week. Then you freeze the linebackers, and we do further arguments about things that she has done. But the number one thing they want is this stay as an emergency in front of the 11th Circuit. And that`s something that will take just a few days.
RUHLE: Charlie, let`s talk about that special master. His deadline is November 30. But he has said to Trump`s team and the DOJ, Tuesday, let`s meet. What`s that all about?
SAVAGE: Well, that`s just step one, he`s got 10 days to come up with a schedule based on her order, then they have another five days to object. And it`s a process that`s going to unfold for months. As you mentioned, she gives him a deadline of November 30 to wrap this up. It all has to begin with the Trump team looking at each and every one of those 11,000 plus documents and making an initial assessment about what they think he should categorize it as.
It is the case, though, that she gave him an instruction. And it`s something of a concession to the government, even though she denied their request to let them just have unfettered access to these classified documents. She gave him an instruction to start with those 100 documents. And she suggested that he could issue an interim report saying here`s what I think should happen to these 100 documents. And she might then let them have access to it. So, it is possible that they can get what they want, even if it`s not through this emergency state process, not all the way at the back end of November 30 for at least these documents. And really, for their obstruction case, for their criminal case of defying a subpoena and deceiving the government saying that they complied with it, they really only need one document that`s classified to do that. That`s separate from this national security review we`ve been talking about which they need all of them to see what happened to them to analyze what the pattern is, trying to figure out whether there`s any more that are missing, that he might have taken that were in those empty folders that have been talked about so much.
For the criminal case, they just need one. So, she did open the door, even if she succeeds in holding off the 11th Circuit here to something that could be much earlier than November 30, Stephanie.
RUHLE: Neal, everyone, we`ve heard — yes, Neal.
KATYAL: Yes. Just both with deference to both of my colleagues here. We`re so fabulous, but I don`t think they`re quite thinking like Trump so if you`re Trump your whole name of the game, is delay.
[23:15:07]
And yes, for Charlie there`s a special master deadline of November 30. That`s just the deadline by which this judge is — this special master supposed to report to Judge Cannon, then it goes to Judge Cannon for all, you know, and she can sit on it for as long as she wants and decide whether or not she agrees with a special master. From there, Donald Trump can appeal that to the 11th Circuit. And then from there, the loser can appeal that to the United States Supreme Court. And that`s also true about Harry Litman`s point about the stay. So yes, the state can be decided on these 100 documents. This filing tonight, can be decided in the course of the next week. But I expect the loser in that litigation to also go to the United States Supreme Court, it`s on an emergency basis. So, it can be done pretty quickly. And I do think within two weeks, we could have resolution on the 100 documents issue.
On the special master as a whole, though, we are talking about a — you know a card that Donald Trump has played, which honestly, no federal defendant I`ve ever seen, has ever gotten this, but he somehow managed to get it from Judge Cannon. And that is a recipe for delay. That`s why with the government has done here is so smart by surgically taking out these 100 documents and saying, let`s decide that on an emergency basis, as nutso, as the rest of the ruling is we can talk about that at a later time.
RUHLE: What do you think about that?
LITMAN: Sort of. I mean, it`s true that of course, even an emergency state can go very quickly. Of course, the loser can.
RUHLE: Can but doesn`t necessarily have to go very quickly?
LITMAN: Right. But the courts will be conscious of that. And I really think the state there`s nothing meritorious about it`s so straightforward. I don`t see the court taking it. But the point that Neal was just raising, which is this process, she`s given rise to of executive privilege review, that`s review under completely unsettled law. And you can see that working its way up amorphously finally to the Supreme Court.
Now, the court really ought to not review it, because the things they`ve said before, if you put them together means it`s not meritorious, but a couple of the justices, including Kavanaugh, who`s sort of in the center of things, has indicated some interest in the issue. So yes, we could — there`s a state of affairs where that issue goes up, and then we`re talking a year, but the stay itself and the ability and the DOJ thought about this, to get to work and to assess the damage and to go forward on a criminal investigation that really ought to be done. If, you know, if the 11th Circuit is responsible within a couple of weeks.
RUHLE: Gentlemen, this is really important and complicated stuff.
LITMAN: Yeah.
RUHLE: I really appreciate all of you joining us tonight, especially in jacket and tie on a Friday night and Neal, let me be clear, you turned it out tonight. Bravo to you. Bravo.
KATYAL: The (inaudible) give me a trouble. So tonight, I dressed up in the Hindu version of black tie just for you.
LITMAN: He used to have to wear a topcoat down to his knees in front of the courts.
RUHLE: Well, I fully — on this Friday night, I absolutely appreciate it. Neal Katyal, Harry Litman, Charlie Savage, thank you all so very much.
LITMAN: Thank you.
RUHLE: When we come back, Democrats riding high after a big week after Republicans introduced a national abortion ban, and are yet to come up with a plan on inflation. Amy McGrath and David Jolly are here with a rare view from the center of American politics.
And later, a President Zelenskyy`s armed forces scored a big victory in Ukraine. And then he went to the front line, the message that central Russia is ahead with Zelenskyy`s former Press Secretary. The 11th Hour just getting underway on a big news Friday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:23:33]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: We face at this moment, in my view, an inflection point, one of those moments that determine the shape of everything that`s going to come after.
Our great-grandchildren are going to look back and decide whether or not in this two-, four-, six-, eight-year period we stepped up. Because the world is changing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: It has been a very busy week of important headlines. So, let`s take a look, on Tuesday we got a hotter than expected inflation report just hours before President Biden held a celebration of the Inflation Reduction Act. That very same day Lindsey Graham introduced a bill for a federal 15- week abortion ban. The very next day, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis sent nearly 50 migrants to Martha`s Vineyard, and yesterday began with rail freight companies and unions reaching a tentative deal to avoid a strike and it ended with the president hosting a White House summit to combat hate-based violence.
With us for more, two centrist who in theory represent the biggest cross section of voters in this country, the middle, Retired Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Amy McGrath, she also ran for Senate in Kentucky against Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and David Jolly, a former Republican and former Member of Congress. He is now Chairman of the Serve America Movement and as an MSNBC Political Contributor.
Amy, a lot happened this week out of everything we just went through. What do you think the people on the ground in Kentucky a very read they care most about?
[23:25:04]
AMY MCGRATH, FORMER U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE IN KENTUCKY: You know, I think long term what the people care most about is that we have Joe Biden in office and the Democrats in office who are actually trying to get things done for everyday people. I mean, these are the things, Stephanie, that happened here, that we just passed in the Inflation Reduction Act. These are the things that I ran on that were very popular here in Kentucky.
For example, having Medicare finally negotiate — be able to negotiate for drug crisis, extending the Affordable Care Act to be able to keep prices down for seniors, drug prices, that sort of thing. And, you know, look, clean energy, these are the types of things that people care about jobs. And these are going to be good job. So, I think in the long run, look, a lot of people don`t like both parties. They don`t like either party. But when they go to vote, they`re going to see those folks that are swing voters, they`re going to see hey, Democrats are actually getting things done in office. I think that`s really important.
RUHLE: David, Lindsey Graham, who served with you he proposed a nationwide 15-week abortion ban, but by a two to one margin Americans, not just Democrats, Americans disapprove of the overturning of Roe, what do you think is going on here?
DAVID JOLLY, SERVE AMERICA MOVEMENT CHAIRMAN: Well, I think Lindsey Graham is throwing spaghetti at the wall trying to remain relevant in a Trump post Trump world to be honest, politically. But his suggestion is that Republicans are flailing in a post Dobbs world. And so, he is trying to set a marker out there to give a messaging point for Republicans.
The problem is it`s a bad messaging point going into November. I mean, look at where we were just about three months ago, Democrats were facing a lot of headwinds. Republicans were feeling pretty good about November. But now you have the Dobbs decision that that changes Roe v. Wade and reproductive rights in America. You have Donald Trump back on the scene, and you have terrible – the Senate candidates.
And what Lindsey Graham did is just throw a spotlight on that, to be honest. And so, look, I think Lindsey Graham is a very erratic politician who is always seeking the limelight. I think that`s what we`re seeing in this. You saw that from a very discipline, Mitch McConnell, who says, hey, we don`t really want to talk about this, because this issue doesn`t help Republicans right now.
RUHLE: And that`s what I want Amy to help us understand, you ran against Mitch McConnell, right? He`s not an erratic, Republican, in theory, overturning Roe v. Wade should have been a crowning achievement for Republicans. Then Graham comes out with his proposal. And Mitch McConnell says, nope, I`m not down with that, help us understand that calculation?
MCGRATH: Well, here`s the thing. And a lot of people are talking about the fact that, oh, Republicans are divided on this issue. Look, Republicans aren`t really divided on this issue. What they`re divided about is whether they talk about this issue or not.
RUHLE: Oh.
MCGRATH: And so, these Republicans in power, they all really want what Lindsey Graham is proposing. They want this extreme right wing ban on abortion nationwide, that they`re just basically trying not to talk about it, because they know it`s wildly unpopular. And that`s what you see in Mitch McConnell. I mean, you know, this business of all the Republicans are all about, this ideology of we should leave it to the States or, you know, keep it to the federal government. That ideology is gone in the age of Trump. They don`t really care about that stuff. They care about their right-wing agenda, and how to push it through. And that`s what this is all about.
RUHLE: But do they really care about any ideology, David? Or do they just care about getting elected? And why would you double, triple, quadruple down on something that`s so unpopular?
JOLLY: Well, it is the axiom of the dog that caught the car, right? I mean, Republicans had had marshaled their alliances with the pro-life community for political purposes. And then they actually won on the issue, and they realize it`s not in step with the American majority. And so that is one of the key reasons. Honestly, Stephanie, we`re seeing a bump for Democrats of 3, 4, 5, even 6 points, and a lot of key races. And I think this November is ultimately the wind behind Democrats back right now is on the post Dobbs Roe v. Wade abortion issue. And again, what Lindsey Graham did is step right in the middle of it and bring all competitive Republican candidates right in the middle of an issue that does not help them go in into November.
RUHLE: Amy, what I want to understand is where Mitch McConnell stands because Mitch McConnell is no friend of Donald Trump. Is this Republican Party becoming the MAGA party versus McConnell party? And how do people in Kentucky feel about him? Because there`s a lot of Trump supporters in your state?
[23:30:05]
MCGRATH: Well, I think you`re absolutely right about that. But I think that Mitch McConnell cares about Mitch McConnell. He cares about power. And he wants — he`ll do anything that he can to remain in power. And get the back the majority in the Senate. And at that — and so he`s trying to basically toe this line here between the Make America Great Again, extremists, and the way he probably wishes the Republican Party would go. The problem is that when you don`t stand up to these extremists, you know, that`s — that puts our country in peril. And that has what Mitch McConnell has done from the very beginning. And in my opinion, it`s really been to the detriment of not only our country, but certainly of Kentucky.
RUHLE: Mitch McConnell knows exactly where he wants the Republican Party to be, in line right behind him. Amy McGrath, David Jolly, thank you both for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.
When we come back, we will speak to the Ukrainian president`s former Press Secretary about the brave move by President Zelenskyy going to the front lines and what they need now from the United States. Is there any hope for an end to this war? When THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:36:00]
RUHLE: Russian troops are retreating as Ukrainian forces recapture key areas and as they do the cities reveal the horrors of Russia`s war. A mass grave with more than 400 bodies was discovered near the city of Izyum. Ukraine says some of those bodies show signs of torture. NBC`s Erin McLaughlin has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: In the newly liberated town of Izyum, Ukraine the dead are hoisted out of shallow hastily dug graves. More than 400 bodies, most of them civilians, including children.
This official saying there are many children. Adding their bodies with hands tied behind their backs. And there`s fear there might have been hundreds more killed during the Russian occupation of this town of almost 50,000. Much of Izyum is now in ruins from the fighting. The local church that doubled as a shelter for Russian troops ransacked.
But now at least liberated. After the Ukrainians mounted a surprise, counter offensive.
(On camera): Describe for me the moment when you realize the Russians were gone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When we saw the Ukrainian Armed Forces, it was a very emotional touching moment, he says.
MCLAUGHLIN: You can see it still moving you to tears.
He says it had the smell of freedom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RUHLE: With us tonight, Iuliia Mendel, former Press Secretary to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and author of the new book, “The Fight of our Lives: My Time with Zelenskyy, Ukraine`s Battle for Democracy, and What it Means to the World.”
Iuliia, thank you so much for joining us. In your book you write about the atrocities in places like Bucha and Mariupol. And now there`s another city to add to the list. What is your reaction when you learned about these 400 bodies, maybe more?
IULIIA MENDEL, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY: Stephanie, you know, my heart is bleeding as a for Ukrainian. And I`m sure that the hearts of all Ukrainians now in a big sorrow. You know, the world has been repeating for 80 years, never again. But what we see right now is actually the horrors from the past, genocidal practices of the World War II, of Holocaust of artificial famine. And of course, we want to finish this as fast as possible. I`m explaining in my book, how the war started, how we did not expect it, but how we were prepared. And of course, we want to regain our territories back. But this experience, which we`re passing are very scary. And we are even more scary to know what is going to happen when we don`t occupy other territories.
RUHLE: Ukraine is taking back territory from Russia, is this a sign that the war is shifting?
MENDEL: This is a good question. We`ve heard from President Zelenskyy that he considers that this is a very important step. First of all, Ukrainian army has shown to the whole world that we can regain the territories back. And this is very important. On the other hand, we understand that the war is not finished, and that Russians continue sending missiles, destroying infrastructure, killing people, and we cannot stop. And that`s why we are asking our partners to be unified and to stand with Ukraine until they finish this terrible war and hold Russia accountable.
RUHLE: What does that look like, holding Russia accountable?
MENDEL: You know, first of all Russia needs to pay for all those distractions and for atrocities that Russia has been doing. But also, what Ukraine wants as a civilized country is of course justice. So, of course, every Ukrainian now dreams about seeing all those people who are ordering their troops, Russian troops to come to Ukraine and to do all these atrocities and killing murderers, you know, all these terrible things to Ukrainians. And all those people who were doing this to be on tribunal and actually to be held to accountable for the war crimes, because everything that is happening right now is actually not less than war crimes in Ukraine.
[23:40:18]
RUHLE: When we were showing the images of Izyum and the man who said it`s it smells like liberation, you know, they feel a sense of hope. How do you rebuild from there? Where do you go?
MENDEL: That`s a very difficult question. And we know that many cities have been destroyed for 90%. And that many people who fled the country and who lost their homes, they don`t have where to return. So of course, it will take enormous energy, effort, and resources to rebuild again. But what I know is that there is 1.2 million of Ukrainians who still stay in occupied territories, and I myself is from a region in southern Ukraine. That is under occupation right now. In my book, The Fight of Our Lives, I`m telling how Russians were occupying aid.
And there is a small village which is called Oleksandrivka. And my grandparents used to live there. I spent there my first years of live. I made first steps and said first words there and there is no that village anymore. And my granny with a wounded leg, she was spending weeks in the basement just hearing our Russian missiles and shelling or destroying your home, their garden and actually all her life. Thanks God, she is in Kyiv right now and recovering. But I know that people in occupation they are praying every day, that Ukrainian army comes and returning the territories back. Because freedom for Ukrainians is the fundamental value. And I`m sure every American will understand what it is.
RUHLE: And we are praying for them. Iuliia, thank you for joining us. Thank you for this book. Thank you for insight into what is happening there. Iuliia Mendel, we appreciate you joining us. And again, the new book —
MENDEL: Stephanie, thank you for having me.
RUHLE: Thank you. The Fight of Our Lives, it is out now.
When we come back, poor unfortunate souls of the internet are bashing Disney`s pic for the Little Mermaid because of the color of her skin. But it is not dimming, excitement and joy for young black girls all over the world. And at the end of the show, we are going to tell you the secret to happiness, you better stay up for that. I am not kidding you it`s science, when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:47:16]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZZO, AWARD WINNING MUSICIAN: When I was a little girl all I wanted to see was me in the media. Someone fat like me, black like me, beautiful like me. If I could go back and tell little Lizzo something I`ll be like you`re going to see that person, a bitch is going to have to be you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Bravo to the brilliant Lizzo. And there was another important wind for representation this Saturday, as Disney dropped the first trailer for its live action Little Mermaid remake with actress Halle Bailey appearing as Ariel. 1000s of little black girls across the country reacted to a Disney princess looked like them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she`s brown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s black.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s black.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s black.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s black.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s black, yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can only see that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you kidding me. Ariel is black.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s brown like me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s brown like me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, she`s brown like you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s like me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s like me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: That right there is the kind of euphoria and joy every child deserves. But despite all of that excitement, still, some internet trolls some are furious about this new movie.
Forbes characterize that backlash as, “transparently racist.” It obviously is. Joining us now to discuss New York Times Best-Selling Author Tracey Baptiste. She wrote a children`s book called Mermaid and Pirate. Tracey, the response we are seeing from black girls across the world is amazing. And it`s not just about joy, how important is this representation?
TRACEY BAPTISTE, NYT BESTSELLING AUTHOR: I mean, representation is important because people are important. And we want to see all kinds of people in all kinds of roles, doing all kinds of things. And I think this is why people are so upset. They`re not used to it. You know, we haven`t had it and they`re like, they`re surprised. Well, surprise. We exist. We exist in the sea. We exist on land. We exist everywhere. You and it is showing us, all of the kids, I mean you see their faces, they`re so excited because they didn`t realize that this was missing. And it`s not just missing for them. It`s missing for everybody. And it`s so important because then we all get to see what we`ve been missing all this time.
[23:50:20]
RUHLE: But many people look at this and don`t realize actually the history, right? With this specific movie mermaids, they think, oh, Disney did a good thing. They chose one of their movies, they`re doing a remake, they`re own devil black one. It wasn`t just random, was it? There`s a history here?
BAPTISTE: There is. There is. And what Disney is doing is actually they`re not really digging into the history of black mermaids that much. They really have taken the Hans Christian Andersen story, and have given it to this black actress. But it would be really interesting for them to go into the existing black mermaid stories.
RUHLE: OK, you`ve written about this?
BAPTISTE: Yes.
RUHLE: You wrote in 2019, a whole piece. Mermaids have always been black?
BAPTISTE: Right. Yes.
RUHLE: Tell us about that.
BAPTISTE: Sure. So, I was born in Trinidad and Tobago. And growing up in the Caribbean, we always had these creatures called jumbies. And one of the jumbies is called Mama D`Leau, which means mother of the water. And she comes directly from West Africa from Mami Wata, which also means mother of the water. And so, she was brought to the Caribbean when enslaved people were brought into the Caribbean and into the Americas. But West Africa, South Africa, all over the African continent has had mermaid stories for millennia. There are cave drawings of mermaids in South Africa, the doggone people of Mali, as far as they`re concerned, the very first creatures on earth were mermaids.
RUHLE: Then why are people, why is all of this backlash? Why are people so upset?
BAPTISTE: Because they don`t know. They don`t know that this exists, and that this has existed for such a long time. Because the stories that we have, the stories that are in the media have been whitewashed, we have had access really only to a very small percentage of the world`s stories. And now that is starting to open up. And people are shocked because they`re not used to it. But it`s OK. They`ll get used to it.
RUHLE: But what`s amazing, a movie like this or other movies and films that you`re seeing backlash, these aren`t even real historical figures, we`re saying, oh, this isn`t an accurate representation. These are fantasies?
BAPTISTE: Right.
RUHLE: Right, these are fictional characters. Can`t they be anything?
BAPTISTE: They can, they can be anything. But I also think that for a very long time, the media has really only portrayed one type of person. And that has been really difficult for people —
RUHLE: A white alpha male.
BAPTISTE: That`s right.
RUHLE: And A Damsel in Distress?
BAPTISTE: Right.
RUHLE: With long blonde flowing hair?
BAPTISTE: Right. But also, just even male female representation in stories, right? I mean, women are the majority of the Earth`s population, but there are a lot more men in media, right? So, we`re not getting an accurate representation. And what it`s doing is it is stunting everybody`s imaginations. So, they cannot even imagine that this could exist when it is a straight up fantasy.
RUHLE: Well, guess what? Tonight, you know what they`re getting at 11 o`clock at night, a black woman and a white woman telling you the news. Tracey, great to meet you. Great to have you on. Thank you very much.
BAPTISTE: Thank you for having me.
RUHLE: When we come back, the secret to happiness. I`m serious. The secret to happiness. Scientists thinks they have cracked the code and found the secret, when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:58:16]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT WALDINGER, MD, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY HARVARD UNIVERSITY: What if we could watch entire lives as they unfold through time? What if we could study people from the time that they were teenagers all the way into old age to see what really keeps people happy and healthy. We did that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Last thing before we go tonight for the week, the happiness study. That right there was psychiatrist Robert Waldinger. He runs the longest scientific study of happiness that has ever been conducted. It began in 1938, the Harvard study of adult development it has followed people from their teenage years into their old, old age. The Boston Globe recently sat down with Waldinger to discuss what he sees as the four secrets to happiness.
Number one, happy people nurturing good relationships. We all know people who are the smartest people on the planet, but can`t find a way out of a paper bag when it comes to human relationships,” Waldinger says. Those people might be outwardly successful, but not particularly fulfilled.
Number two, happy people are not self-absorbed, especially at the end of their lives. People didn`t mention the awards they won or the money they made. They said I raise healthy kids. I had a good marriage. I mentor people at work.
Number three, happy people avoid toxic tribalism. Waldinger says it is easy to see social life as us versus them, bad versus good, cool kids versus the nerds. Instead, he suggests we make an effort to see other people and ourselves as individuals.
Number four. Happy people don`t worry about what other people think. I hope my teenagers are watching. According to Waldinger, many people`s biggest regret was caring too much about what other people think. So, what`s his advice? Love what you love. You can be the quiet, you can be – excuse me, you can be quiet about it if it`s not the flavor of the month right now, but don`t let the things that you truly love go.
So, you heard it there. This weekend, get out there. Invest time with your friends, your family, be yourself and love, whatever you love, and who knows, it just might be the key to a happy life. And on that note, I wish you all a very, very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us. I will see you on Monday night.