Updated
Summary
Mick Mulvaney, one of former President Trump`s closest aides, is the latest person to testify in the January 6th hearings. The Jan. 6 committee reached an agreement with the Justice Department to share evidence, including witness transcript. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Sen. Joe Manchin announced that they have struck a deal on legislation that aims to reform the tax code, fight climate change and cut health-care costs. U.S. House Democrats plan to announce a proposal next month to ban lawmakers, their spouses and senior staff from trading stocks.
Transcript
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, still more Trump insiders are talking to the January 6 committee promising to speak the truth, as the current White House talks up that surprise spending breakthrough, and Congress finally gets around to an insider trading crackdown.
Then, the latest fiction from the former guy who`s now playing defense of his Saudi sponsored golf event.
Plus, casually cruelty. The theory aimed at Republican senators who blocked the bipartisan bill expanding health care for American veterans as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Thursday night.
Good evening. Once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. Another senior Trump White House official has testified before the January 6 committee. This afternoon Former Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney appeared for a closed door deposition that lasted about two and a half hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you plan to tell the committee today?
MICK MULVANEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ACTING CHIEF OF STAFF: The truth. How about that for a start.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And were you asked to come in or do you volunteer to come in?
MULVANEY: I was asked to come in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You asked to come in. Subpoena or no?
MULVANEY: I was honestly just asked to come in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you in contact with anybody in the White House from the time period of December to January 2020?
MULVANEY: January —
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of 2021? During the time period that they focused on — the committee has been focusing on?
MULVANEY: I haven`t talk to anybody at the White House a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Mulvaney of course served as Chief of Staff from late 2018 until March 2020. He then became Special Envoy to Northern Ireland. He resigned in the aftermath of the insurrection. Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo also on the committee`s list, and today he confirmed that negotiations have been underway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, FMR. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We`ve had discussions with them about potentially appearing before them, we`re trying to figure our way out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: And there`s this new intriguing twist from the Washington Post tonight. Listen to this. Text messages for former President Donald Trump`s acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf and Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli are missing for a key period of time, guess when, leading up to the January 6 attack on the Capitol.
And as the panel is focusing on gathering new information, it is also agreed to a formal process to share evidence and witness transcripts with the Justice Department.
Earlier today, Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson described how that process will work.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BENNIE THOMPSON, (D-MS) JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The process, as we see it, you know, you kind of tell us who you are interested in, and we will make it available.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Meanwhile, Senate Democrats are pushing to bring their climate and health care package to the floor for a vote. This bill is a major part of Biden`s agenda. Now the pressure is on to make sure every Democrat in the Senate including Kyrsten Sinema is on board.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY) MAJORITY LEADER: Giving every member a few days to read the bill. It`s a 700 page bill. And we`ll all be talking hopefully we`ll get 50 votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: And today, we learned that the U.S. economy shrank for the second straight quarter. That of course is fueling fears of recession. But of course, slowing the economy is exactly what the Fed is trying to do to slow inflation. And here`s what President Biden had to say about today`s numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We`ve a record job market of record unemployment of 3.6 percent today. We`ve created 9 million new jobs so far just as to become president. Business or investing in America at record rates, at record rates. That doesn`t sound like recession to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Maybe the President has been watching us saying this economy is one clear thing very complicated. With that, let`s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel tonight. Peter Baker joins us, chief White House correspondent for The New York Times, Barbara McQuade is here a veteran federal prosecutor and former US Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan and former Senator Heidi Heitkamp as North Dakota`s first elected female senator. She served on the Senate Banking Committee and she is also the founder of the One Country Project, a group that helps rural communities.
Barb, I`ve got to go to you first. This committee seems very interested in Trump`s cabinet members, what are they up to?
BARBARA MCQUADE, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: : Well, I think with regard to Mike Pompeo as the Secretary of Defense, he in particular is someone that I can understand why they would want to talk to him. Remember at the last hearing you heard about how Donald Trump did nothing for the 187 minutes that the Capitol attack.
[23:05:01]
We heard from Chief of Staff of the Joint — Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley that we have not heard from Mike Pompeo and the Department of Defense. And so to the extent there was any request in communication being done at the Defense Department, that would be the place to find it. And so I imagine that is what they`re looking at with regard to Mike Pompeo.
RUHLE: Peter, the committee, as Barb just said, in talks, to speak with the former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, this reminds people about talk of the 25th amendment. Are they right to go there?
PETER BAKER, THE NEW YORK TIMES CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it`s important to understand what exactly what the conversation in the hours and days after January 6. Remember, of course, there was a big mood among Democrats and even some Republicans on January, that late January 6, really January 7, and for a little while, but whether the President could be trusted in office in those final two weeks that he had left and could as bad as things got on January 6, with the storming of the Capitol, could things get worse.
And so there was this conversation about whether to invoke the 25th amendment. Now, you will remember the course of right 25th Amendment includes a clause that allows a majority of the cabinet joined by the Vice President to remove a president from office for disability, for being unable to come to perform the duties of his office.
And there was this conversation about including involving Mike Pompeo, and some of the other Cabinet Secretaries. There was Mike Pence of all people who shut him down. Mike Pence who had been thrown to the wolves, if you will by Donald Trump on January 6, who didn`t seem to care that he was being threatened. His life was being threatened by a mob crying out hang Mike Pence. Even the Vice President said no, I`m not going to go along with it. And under the 25th Amendment is the vice president that doesn`t go along with it. There is no invocation of that clause.
RUHLE: Senator, I want to share what Jamie Raskin is saying about Trump insiders who are now testifying. He of course, is a committee member.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): I think that there`s a rapid flight away from Donald Trump. I think most people can read the writing on the wall that he`s going to end up isolated and shamed. More and more of them may want to just establish some kind of objective factual record about where they were in these events.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: I mean, in that case, you know, consider the source, of course, Democrats are going to say Republicans are turning away from Donald Trump, but the Atlantic has an article saying the same thing Republicans are struggling to change their minds. Do you see that?
FMR. SEN. HEIDI HEITKAMP (D-ND): Oh, I think it`s absolutely self- preservation. They see the handwriting on the wall that in the annals of history, this is not going to look well. They still want to have a career. They want to be able to be hired by those all important corporations to lobby members. And they have to somehow, and let`s be honest about it, get the stink off themselves.
And I think there now is a rush to do that. And I agree with the congressman, that this is kind of a rush to the door, to basically say, Well, I wasn`t there. It wasn`t on my watch.
RUHLE: Barb, Mick Mulvaney was out of the picture before the 2020 election, why talk to him and this report about more missing texts in the investigation? What do you make of all this?
MCQUADE: Well, with regard to Mick Mulvaney, it is kind of curious because he wasn`t at the White House during the events of January 6. But of course, he had been there in early 2020. And so it could be that he is being used as sort of an expert witness to explain how the communication channels worked at the White House. That`s one possibility. It`s also possible that he was still in touch with people and had some information about what`s going on.
One thing is to be sure is the Justice Department is not going to put him in the grand jury, unless they have a very good idea of what they want. They`re not going to throw him in there as a fishing expedition. So there`s something very specific that they`ve already discussed with him in an interview. And now I want to get out of him at the grand jury. So I`m not sure what that is. But there is a very specific reason.
With regard to these missing messages at the Department of Homeland Security, it just keeps getting worse and worse. And Ken Cuccinelli is a really key figure here. Recall, he is the one that Liz Cheney described as linking up to threads of the plot to steal the election. He was the one who had the email connecting a man named Ken Klukowski, the man who joined the Justice Department shortly before January 7, and drafted the letter that Jeffrey Clark wanted to send to Georgia and other states, proposing false slates of electors, as if they had come up with it on their own, when in fact, he also worked with John Eastman. It was just the same idea repackaged and legitimized.
And so those missing text messages are really potentially something that could be powerful evidence and very disturbing that they`re not there.
RUHLE: So let me just follow up on that though, Barb, because they had to know how horrible it would look that the messages were missing. The fact that they were willing to delete them does that not make you think what`s on there must be really bad?
[23:10:05]
MCQUADE: Yes, if that is the case. So it`s possible there`s an innocent explanation, it is possible that there is human error involved that causes. But if you can show that they actually deleted them or destroyed them in some way, then yes, that is evidence that we`re prosecuted referred to as consciousness of guilt, that if you`re going to go to the trouble of concealing something, or lying about something or destroying something, it`s because the truth is even worse than the act of concealment.
RUHLE: Senator, I`m sure if I asked you what the people in North Dakota are talking about if it`s the January 6 hearings or the economy, I`m sure you would say it`s the economy. But at this point, do people realize that what these hearings are really about is the future of a functioning democracy?
HEITKAMP: I don`t think it is sunk in yet. But I think they get a sense that something is happening. The President, the former president looks rattled. You see more and more Republicans distancing themselves. You see the poll numbers with the former president not doing as well.
And so I think they have a sense that something is happening out there, that has created now an opportunity for other Republicans to step forward. But, you know, let`s face it, it`s just like James Carville said, it`s the economy stupid, and, you know, making ends meet is what people talk about around the kitchen table.
And, you know, I think the Democrats took a big step forward, today and announcing this reconciliation package that I think will in fact, bring some real relief to working families in this country. And so I think a lot of Democrats in states like mine are breathing a sigh of relief, because they have something positive to talk about.
RUHLE: I want to stay on that, Peter, because when we got that negative GDP number, that only reinforced that people are bracing for a recession, but slowing the economy is exactly what the Fed is trying to do to lower inflation. So how hard is it for this White House to message around this complicated economy?
BAKER: Well, it`s obviously very hard. And obviously, they`re — they look like they`re trying to talk themselves out of reality by arguing about the definition of a recession, is that a recession that we have two quarters of straight GDP, you know, shrinkage or not, the other factors that count the definition of recession or not. And that`s a very technical discussion.
But the fact of the matter is, doesn`t change whether people feel it in their wallets or feel whether they can get a job or not. And of course, you do have a economy where you get a job, for the most part if you want one, because the labor market is strong, but you`re feeling the pinch of these rising prices at the gas pump in the grocery store. And that complicated economies you`re talking about is one that they`re trying to get their hands around, and they`re trying to message around and try and say, Look, things aren`t as bad as they are, is they look, even if they feel that way to a lot of people. And that`s a hard, hard message to get across.
And you`re right. The Fed is basically finance, put the brakes on, get us back from a, you know, a very strong economic growth to something more sustainable without inflation, you know, putting a crimp on everybody. But there`s a lot of pain between that and where you want to get to and that pain may be lasting through the midterm elections, which is, of course bad for the Democrats and bad for President Biden, maybe good for him and for the economy in the long run. But we`re in for several months. I think that economic, you know, trouble for this President.
RUHLE: Yes, I mean, people are getting worried that it looks like real estate prices are going down. Except of course two months ago, we were begging for that to be the case because the housing market was so hot. It is complicated.
Today — Senator, today, Susan Collins said that the climate and health care deal is going to make it harder to convince other Republicans to protect same sex marriage. Can you explain to me how that could possibly be good politics?
HEITKAMP: No, I can`t. I think that you saw some of that pettiness you know, I`m going to get even with you by taking on veterans while things burn in legislation. It`s backfired big time. And I think that the message that all Republicans should be taking away from the discussion today on burn pit legislation is don`t conflate things. Don`t think that you`re going to get a pass on voting against something because you`ve gotten your — you`re angry because this reconciliation package is advancing.
You know, it wasn`t likely they were going to get a Republican vote anyway. So let`s just get real about this. If Democrats have to reduce health care costs, if they have to provide relief at the pump all on their own. So be it. That will be bad for Republicans.
RUHLE: Well, the last time you were here, you said that the midterms were not going to go well for the Democrats. Has that view changed?
HEITKAMP: Well, the last time I was here was before the DAD (ph) decision reversing Roe v. Wade. It was before we had a reconciliation package that could provide that all important talking point when you`re back home that`ll draw the contrast.
[23:15:05]
I think it`s still a really big uphill battle for the reasons Peter was talking about, look, you know, we may get you — you probably are old enough with me to remember when Volcker invoked the recession to basically bring down inflation costs in the early 80s. So the recession is coming. If in fact, we see contraction in the labor market takes a hit. I think it`s going to be really difficult to spiral out of that. It`s going to lead to some bad outcomes.
But I think at the end of the day, now, we have something to talk about. Now. We have to remind voters as Democrats, how important this election is not just on the economy, but also on our values.
RUHLE: All right. Heidi Heitkamp, Barbara McQuade, Peter Baker, thank you all for joining us tonight. Coming up. You`re reporting on a stock trading ban for members of Congress is actually moving closer to reality. Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger is here on what is next and what it could look like.
And later, Jon Stewart calling out Republicans in a big way after they blocked a bill to help veterans. Why it`s so important for veterans who are exposed to toxic burn pits to get more help from our government. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on this important Thursday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:56]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: It`s a phenomenon of absurdly foul play, that voters across the country are sick and tired of. Nearly 75 lawmakers invested in vaccine makers throughout this pandemic.
You don`t think that members of Congress knew that before the general public because that information made members of Congress millions and millions of dollars just knowing what to invest in and what not to.
75 percent of Americans say this is actual nonsense that Congress can trade individual stocks, given the amount of info they have.
Shouldn`t they be held to the same standards at let`s say, federal workers, journalists, the financial sector?
How is that OK? I mean, these are — many of them are your own colleagues?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, definitely, obviously, it`s not OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: As you can see, we care a lot about this story, and I`ve been covering it very closely. And our friends over at Punchbowl News have a big scoop. Today, House Democrats plan to announce a proposal next month to ban lawmakers, their spouses and senior staff from trading stocks. Here`s more from that reporting, quote, the proposed legislation would allow members spouses and senior staff to hold mutual funds. The leadership`s goal is to introduce legislation in the beginning of September and push it through the chamber that month.
Virginia Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger has led the charge on a stock trading ban on members of Congress. She joins us now.
As soon as I heard the news today, you were our first call. You have been leading this bipartisan proposal to get something done, give us an update.
REP. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER (D-VA): Well, I want to thank you for highlighting it for so long, and highlighting not just the importance of this legislation, but the importance to the American people. Anywhere I go across my district, whether I`m there to talk about veteran`s related issues or healthcare related issues or any and everything, somebody in the crowd brings up this legislation and brings up the principle that they just do not think that members of Congress should be able to buy and sell individual stocks.
And so we have been pushing and building momentum there is bipartisan support for this idea. Certainly I was proud to work across the aisle to introduce a bipartisan bill that would do just that band members of Congress from trading individual stocks and we are moving forward. There`s been some fits and starts, but certainly getting to the point where we now have House leadership saying that they`re willing to bring a bill forward.
This is a tremendous step forward. And I`m going to continue to push hard until we actually get a bill through the House through the Senate and to the President`s desk.
RUHLE: Well, last week, you told The Daily Beast, the people who control the calendar don`t want to bring it to the floor. Is that Nancy Pelosi because she has not always been a supporter of this?
SPANBERGER: Well, I continue to be of the mindset that I am going to build the largest coalition around this idea around our legislation that I possibly can build. It`s why I`ve partnered with Chip Roy, a Republican from Texas, we do not agree on a whole heck of a lot of things. But we agree on this.
In the early days of the pandemic, we sat on the House floor as there was report after report about members of Congress who had invested in pharmaceutical companies, who invested in other pandemic related companies. And we shared in that discussed and we wrote this legislation to ban members of Congress from buying trading stocks. And we have built up a broad coalition of people across the ideological spectrum on both sides of the aisle. And thankfully, but not surprisingly, the American people are with us on this.
RUHLE: So where`s Nancy Pelosi on?
SPANBERGER: And so while I, you know, continued — well, we shall see when we actually move forward with a vote on this legislation, but I do celebrate a step forward. Certainly having more people on the record, certainly having the House administration on record as saying that they support this bill and not just for lawmakers but for their spouses, which was a point of contention for some people and certainly something that I believe deeply is necessary to have legislation that the American people can take seriously, we need to include our spouses in this.
[23:25:08[
And so moving forward, I will share my real excitement the day that we actually take the vote. But certainly this is a tremendous step forward and one that we`ve been pushing for months.
RUHLE: But there are members of Congress who don`t want to do this, who make the argument, why don`t you trust us? Why do you think we`re inherently bad? How can they make that argument when we`re a nation of laws, but it doesn`t mean we`re all criminals?
SPANBERGER: Well, I have had this conversation, this exact conversation with colleagues and I said, You know what, it doesn`t matter. And I said, it doesn`t matter what I think it doesn`t matter whether you are corrupt, or you`re not corrupt, like I in fact, do not believe that the issue is itThere`s mass corruption, truly, I don`t.
But the bottom line is the American people do not trust Congress as much as they should. And we have the ability to say, You know what time and time again, when members of Congress are outperforming the stock market, that doesn`t pass the smell test time and time again, when members of Congress are buying or selling stocks based on what`s happening in the world. And we may or may not have access to specific information, it doesn`t pass the smell test.
And so it is on us to put restrictions, if I could loosely call it that, to put parameters on ourselves to affirmatively show to the American people that we are deserving of their trust. And notably, this is not a higher different standard than what exists for journalists. Many of the journalists who`ve been interviewing me about stock trading themselves have limitations on what it is that they`re allowed to do with their financial portfolio.
Stockbrokers have limitations with what they can do on their, their portfolio. People who work in the executive branch, in the White House have limitations on what they can do financially speaking.
And so this is about good governance. It`s about not only the potential for impropriety, but the mere perception of potential impropriety. And so I aggressively argue back with my colleagues that what they are or not doing is not the point. It`s what the American people think that we`re doing.
And right now, they think that there`s a lot of members of Congress who aren`t doing the right thing. And we have the ability to show them that we are willing to put these parameters on ourselves to, to affirm to have them that we`re working for them and not our stock portfolios. It`s straightforward. It`s simple. And I think the American people deserve this.
RUHLE: And the American people are asking for it. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining me tonight. I appreciate it. Abigail Spanberger of Virginia. Coming up next, the absurd, absolutely absurd defense from the former president on hosting a Saudi backed golf event in the Garden State when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:32:23]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): It is time for us to quit the politics. Stop trying to score political points. Stop putting party over country lay down our arms. My God if we can agree on this. What in the hell are we going to agree on? Rebuilding the manufacturing base, good paying jobs, union construction out competing China, National Security. Come on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Well, the House did pass that chips bill this afternoon. But only 24 Republicans voted in favor, including Michael McCaul of Texas. He`s the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. And right now very unhappy with his GOP colleagues who voted no saying this quote, guess who came out today strongly opposed to the chips bill, the Chinese Communist Party.
Let`s discuss with us tonight Juanita Tolliver, a veteran political strategist to progressive candidates and causes. And Tim Miller is here, contributor to The Bulwark and former communications director for Jeb Bush. He wrote a new book, Why We Did It.
Tim, help me out here. I thought Republicans were all about out competing China, or is what we really learned today. Their number one goal is to just stop Democrats at all costs no matter what.
TIM MILLER, THE BULWARK CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that`s the answer, Stephanie, the latter they`re trying to stifle Democrats. I think it`s worth mentioning that like Tim Ryan, who was there in our intro is running about as good of a campaign as you can run in Ohio against JD Vance appealing to Republicans. I think a lot of Democrats could learn from him on the messaging side of this.
I think he`s going right at this being tough on China manufacturing, working class jobs. You know, these are the voters that Donald Trump won over and some of them are motivated by cultural issues. Sure, but some of them are motivated by economic issues. And I think that the Democrats can use something like this chips bill to win back some of these voters.
As for the Republicans there, you know, they basically are a little their feelings are hurt, Steph, if I`m being honest, because Joe Manchin outplayed them. Joe Manchin outplayed them on this one that more Republicans weren`t going to vote for this, but they`re upset the Joe Manchin kind of separate deal with Chuck Schumer on inflation and so they didn`t vote for this because their feelings were aligned. This is silly inside or Washington DC stuff. That`s what everybody hates. And so I think that`s why Tim Ryan`s message on this is so strong.
RUHLE: They thought Joe Manchin could only pay checkers, but alas, they play chess in West Virginia as well. But how about Arizona, Juanita, that`s the big question, is Kyrsten Sinema going to get on board
[23:35:05]
JUANITA TOLLIVER, PROGRESSIVE POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Look, she`s been quiet. She was refusing to answer questions earlier today. And honestly, I think everybody`s looking over their shoulder for potential spoilers. If anything, we know that Senator Sinema is likely going to make a statement or raise some type of issue and make noise about the corporate tax and the rewriting of the corporate tax to have a 15 percent minimum, right. So that`s what she`s done in the past. That`s likely what she`s to do now.
My only request to the Senator is do that in negotiations and constructive, productive conversations, don`t do some dramatic floor vote move like we`ve seen her do in the past, make this something that actually is going to respond to what people need in this moment, including rewriting the tax code, including lowering prescription drug costs, including putting forth investments to save our planet, which is burning before our eyes.
And one thing I also want to add about what Tim said is it goes a little bit beyond silly politics. Because when we know that Republicans are in this posture of bullying, they`re going to harm other people in this situation with the chips votes, it`s harms for people who need those jobs.
And the vote related to veterans in basic health care access for people who are around burn pits while deployed. It`s about access to that health care. And they`re the ones who are facing the brunt of repercussions because as Tim said, Republicans got played and they got their feelings hurt. And this is the biggest temper tantrum they`re trying to draw right now. But they`re hurting people who are in need.
RUHLE: It`s hard for people who want those manufacturing jobs and hard for the millions of people who want to buy the countless products that you make with chips. Tim, I got to switch gears. Donald Trump`s Jersey Golf Course is hosting this Saudi golf tournament this weekend, which is 50 miles from ground zero. I want to share what one 9/11 family member had to say after Trump was asked about their anger over the event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Nobody`s gotten to the bottom of 9/11. And fortunately, they should have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you heard that, what went through your head?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he sounds like a fool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Nobody`s gotten to the bottom of 9/11. Republicans are going to stand by that, Tim?
MILLER: Yes, of course. It makes you wonder about his mental capacity and this person was the President had access to all of our nation`s secrets. We had a 9/11 Commission. What was he doing in there? I guess I think we know the answer. Watching Fox and Friends, I guess.
Look, this is a little bit of a pet issue for me. I`m frustrated that Donald Trump is the worst offender on this as far as sucking up to MBS except maybe his son in law, Jared Kushner, but everybody`s a little bit guilty. You know, Joe Biden flew over there last week or two weeks ago. He`s buying off his golf tour, buying off Hollywood. MBS is a tyrant. And, you know, there are American citizens that are being unlawfully detained there. He`s holding hostage two kids that are — the kids — Saad al-Jabri family that are the kids of American intelligence ally. He kidnapped the prime minister of Lebanon.
MBS should be treated like a pariah. And in the fact that he did a Saudi money to be welcomed under the former presidents golf course then he`d run cover for them. It`s just — it`s really sick. It`s sick on the 9/11 level, but it`s also sick on the current geopolitics.
RUHLE: Before we go, Juanita, I want to ask you about some other very prominent Republicans because they`re questioning Trump. Karl Rove wrote a Wall Street Journal op-ed asking where Trump`s campaign donations are going.
I mean, I had to read it twice. I mean, Karl Rove, I`ve been asking where Trump`s donations are going, but I`m pretty sure Karl is not on my research team. What do you think when a guy like that`s asking these questions publicly?
TOLLIVER: Look, it`s punching holes through what Trump thought would be like a sound firm standing he has within the Republican Party. It`s the clearly it like rewriting the division between conservative long standing Republicans and Trump Republicans, which we know Trump has benefited from having that stronghold on the party, but it`s showing that he`s losing that support. And I appreciate the questions being asked.
And based on this op-ed, we know the money can`t be used for 2024 and we know he`s not giving it to candidates he`s indoors. So I`m like, is this just a temporary bank account for future legal battles? I don`t know what Trump`s doing with it. But I can tell you it`s probably up to no good.
RUHLE: Show me the money. I`d sure like to see it. Juanita, thank you for joining us tonight, Tim as well. Always good to see you both. When we come back, for Jon Stewart, it is a brutal betrayal to American veterans and their families. The Republican reversal on their health care funding when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:44:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN ZEIER, VETERAN`S ADVOCATE: They voted against my family. They voted for all of us to suffer. They are endorsing our suffering. They`re endorsing her suffering, they`re endorsing Tim suffering, they`re endorsing Kevin suffering, they`re endorsing Rosie and her husband suffering.
They don`t give a shit about veterans. Every single one has pictures with veterans on their Facebook pages, on their websites. Well screw that they don`t support veterans. If you vote note on this bill, you do not support veterans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Susan Zeier, mother-in-law of the late Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson, one of her hundreds of veterans advocate veteran`s advocates asking one simple question of Republicans today, why.
[23:45:06]
Only hours after Democrats struck a deal on reconciliation, Senate Republicans torpedoed what`s called the PACT Act. The measure expands health care for millions of long suffering veterans exposed to burn pits overseas. Senate Republicans insists they had no choice alleging the funding might quickly become a slush fund, might. They suggesting that prompted profane fury today from veteran`s advocate Jon Stewart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, VETERAN`S ADVOCATE: So ain`t this bitch? Ain`t this a bitch? America`s heroes who fought nor wars outside, sweating their asses off with oxygen battling all kinds of ailments while these motherfuckers sit in the air conditioning, walled off from any of it. I`m used to all of it. And I`m not used to the cruelty. They lived up to their oath.
And yesterday, they spit on it in abject cruelty. These people thought they could finally breathe. You think their struggles and because the PACT Act passes, all it means is they don`t have to decide between their cancer drugs and their house. Their struggle continues.
And now they say well, this will get done. Maybe after we get back from our summer recess, maybe during the lame duck, because they`re on Senate time. Do you understand you live around here? Senate time is ridiculous. These motherfuckers live to 200, their tortoises. They live forever, and they never lose their jobs. And they never lose their benefits. And they never lose all those things. Well, they`re not on Senate time. They`re on human time, cancer time.
So they can`t leave until this gets done. Because these people will not give up. They will not give in and they will not relent. This is an embarrassment to the Senate, to the country, to the founders and all that they profess to hold dear. And if this is America first than America is fucked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: You know, who will not give up? Susan Zeier. She`s spending tonight on the steps of the Capitol. Susan, thank you for joining me tonight. What is your message that you want America to hear that you want Republicans in Congress to hear?
ZEIER: Our message tonight is when our soldiers are off at war they can`t leave their posts. They can`t give up until the mission is accomplished. So we`re here at the Capitol. There`s a group of veterans and surviving loved ones of dead war heroes behind me and we`re staying here on the Capitol steps until 6:00 am. And we are urging all of the senators to change their no votes.
The Republican senators who voted no, change your no votes to yes votes and or you do not leave next week for the Senate break. If we have to stay here all night, you need to stay here until this bill passes.
RUHLE: Have you asked for meetings with any of them? And if so, have they responded?
ZEIER: We did a couple of meetings today. The response was, oh, the Senator Schumer`s fault because Senator Schumer didn`t allow the debate on two amendments that Senator Toomey wanted in the Republican caucus wanted.
So what we found out that — actually happened was Senator Schumer and Senator Jon Tester agreed on the two or three amendments, but when they came to the floor to debate it, they brought 10 amendments, so they were offered two amendments, or none. And the Republicans chose none, because they wanted the 10. And so this is just grandstanding game playing politics by the Republicans on the backs of veteran`s lives. And it`s got to stop.
RUHLE: Well, Susan, I applaud you for being there fighting and representing veterans and veterans advocates across the country. Your son in law would certainly be proud tonight. Susan, I appreciate joining us.
[23:50:01]
Also with Paul Rieckhoff, veterans advocate and host of the Independent Americans podcast. In his latest episode, he talks with Montana Senator Jon Tester who was also on the hill with Jon Stewart today. Paul, you have said Jon Stewart has had your back on this the whole way. Do you think his outrage is going to make any difference?
PAUL RIECKHOFF, INDEPENDENT AMERICANS PODCAST HOST: Yes. Sometimes it`s the only thing that makes a difference, because unfortunately, we`ve been here before. This happened with the 9/11 Zadroga bill, where we had a block from Rand Paul, it happened with the Zadroga 2 when we had Rand Paul and Mike Lee. And now it`s happening again for veterans dying of cancer.
With one guy, Senator Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania, and John Stewart is like a one man shame machine. I think the president should give him the Medal of Freedom. I mean, this is the only reason that I`m talking to you on television right now is because Jon Stewart is doing interviews on the Jersey Turnpike. And because Susan, whose son-in-law has already died is on Capitol Hill. But Jon Stewart has the amplification we need but why does it have to come to this time and time again, we have to put these guys on blast and shame them in front of the entire world.
It`s ridiculous. It`s shameful. It`s outrageous. And it`s one guy. It`s the Republican Party. But let`s call out the ringleader here. It`s Senator Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania, if we want to stop this, we want to stop it from happening again, make them famous, shame him into oblivion. So when he leaves the Senate at the end of this, he can`t go into some cushy corporate job and drink champagne while our friends continue to die.
RUHLE: It`s not new for Republicans to block Democrats. It`s what Mitch McConnell did for eight years. But in this specific case, how much of a political misfire is it for the GOP who claims to be the party of Law and Order America first?
RIECKHOFF: We`ll find out. I mean, it`s only going to be a misfire for them with the American people and make them pay. You know, I host a show called independent Americans. I think this moves independent Americans. I think it gets people in toss up states. I think it gets people to leave the Republican Party that claims to be the party of national security and national defense.
This is going to help one in five living veterans, potentially millions of veterans all the way back to Vietnam. And look, the Democrats deserve credit for moving this forward. But it`s also taken us almost 20 years to get it done. So nobody`s really clean here. America should be shamed in general, that we`ve had to be begging for 10, 15 years to get health care over and over again.
You know, Stephanie, you and I have been friends for a while. I`m probably going to die from toxin exposures, either my toxic exposures in Iraq and Kuwait, or my toxin exposures at 9/11. I hope that I don`t die before this bill passes. Many of our friends have already died. There are people on ventilators right now. And with oxygen tanks on Capitol Hill, that`s the stakes here. This is about the soul of America. And Jon Stewart is like a conscience call for all of us.
RUHLE: Well, I appreciate you leading this fight. And I appreciate you joining us tonight. It is always good to see you, Paul.
RIECKHOFF: Thank you, my friend. Coming up, some myth busting from a former Marine when it comes to gun rights in America, THE 11TH HOUR is not done yet. Don`t go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:57:15]
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, a well-regulated militia. Here`s how the Second Amendment puts it, quote, a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
But what does that really mean? Well, Adrian Fontas is a Democratic candidate for Arizona Secretary of State and a former U.S. Marine marksmanship instructor. And he has taken some time to try and dismantle some of the right wing Second Amendment lies about the right to bear arms. So for facts sake, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIAN FONTES, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE: I think there`s a lot of people who don`t understand what the Second Amendment actually means in context of the whole Constitution. Right? Right. The confusion is I can just be a militia by myself. And a well-regulated militia just means what I want it to mean, that`s not true. It`s 100 percent not true.
Here`s what it means. Congress shall have the power to call for the militia, execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions. The militia in the context of our Constitution is enforcing the laws of the Union. They work for the government, not against some tyrannical fantasy government that you guys are fetishizing against. That`s not what it`s supposed to. It says so right here. It also says that the Congress shall have the power to provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia. That means you get your militia arms from the government. You don`t by him yourself. That`s what the Constitution says.
Congress provides the rules for the militia. Congress provides the arms for the militia. Congress calls up the militia. You don`t just get to be a militia on your own. We look at this thing. This is what we had to teach Marines. It`s a two-week course. Marines have to go through this every single year to be qualified to shoot with the with the M16A2 service rifle, which is like the AR-15.
But an 18-year-old in the United States of America, an 18-year-old doesn`t have to go through any of that training can go grab an AR-15 and do damage like they`ve done and murder kids in classrooms like they`ve done. Like they continue to do. It`s crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: It is crazy. Adrian Fontas, thank you. Thank you for your service. And thank you for that reality check on such a critically important issue facing all Americans tonight.
And on that critically important note, I wish you all a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us and I will see you at the end of tomorrow.