Updated
Summary
Clarence Thomas posed at the Supreme Court with a Republican Senate candidate who believes that Donald Trump won the last presidential election. Saudi Arabia is investing a total of $2 billion in an investment fund created by Jared Kushner who has never before run an investment fund. Boris Johnson did something truly Churchillian this weekend. On Saturday, the British prime minister walked the streets of Kyiv with President Zelenskyy. Austria`s chancellor became the first European leader to meet face to face with Vladimir Putin since Putin began his war in Ukraine. President Zelenskyy chose to focus on how Russia is using hunger as a weapon. In his address to the Irish parliament, President Zelenskyy knew that his message about hunger would resonate in Ireland, which has never recovered.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Rachel. I missed you, too. And, look, I got all dressed up for your return tonight, wearing exactly where the other night, but it`s just for you tonight, just for you.
RACHEL, MSNBC HOST, “TRMS”: It`s got a little extra special sparkle in my eyes.
O`DONNELL: Oh, good.
And speaking of dressed up, Rachel, I hope you`re ready to go with me to Washington`s next big superspreader, the White House correspondents dinner. Glad you got back in time to do that crazy thing that I`m not going to do this year.
MADDOW: I`m sorry. Actually, I`m planning on stabbing myself in the eye with a fork. I just don`t have time.
O`DONNELL: Among the reasons to skip could be — could be superspreader, of course.
MADDOW: Man, I mean, I will say — I will say though that looking at the list of people who have been high — like boldfaced names in Washington who have been in the last two weeks, including the 80 people or whatever it was from that one dinner, people — even the oldsters not ending up in the hospital is the best tribute that we`ve got to the vaccines.
I mean, if you have to be fully vaccinated, it doesn`t mean you won`t get it. But if you do get, it you`re probably not going to the hospital. And we are seeing that in real time with all of these famous politicos all coming down with it all at the same time.
O`DONNELL: So, how about we get the fourth booster, and the second booster, and we go to the crazy thing in Washington, and see if it works.
MADDOW: Oh, it has nothing to do with COVID that I don`t want to go.
O`DONNELL: I know, I know.
MADDOW: Yeah. No, I just — I`m afraid of people. That`s all.
O`DONNELL: Welcome, back we are not coming that far back to actually go to the White House correspondents dinner.
MADDOW: That`s exactly right.
O`DONNELL: Exactly. Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: Thank you, Rachel. It`s good to be back. Thanks.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Well, there is a war raging with a murderous dictator armed with nukes. And it is very difficult for any other issues to compete with that in our new cycle. It is very difficult to keep focus daily on any other developments.
But, there is a development that we have never seen before in this country that we are going to begin with tonight. And that is the single, biggest, most important and gravest scandal in the history of the United States Supreme Court. And it is time to call Clarence Thomas what he is, a politician. And as a Supreme Court justice, Clarence Thomas is now very much out of control.
Here is Clarence Thomas posing at the Supreme Court with a Republican Senate candidate who believes that Donald Trump won the last presidential election. Former football stall Herschel Walker pictured here with Clarence Thomas at the Supreme Court last week as Donald Trump`s chosen candidate in the Georgia Republican primary for the Senate race down there. The winner of the Republican primary will face Georgia`s Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock in the general election.
And there`s Clarence Thomas, who`s from Georgia, making it very clear to Georgia voters who side he`s on.
Remember when Harvard law professor Elizabeth Warren was running for Senate for the first time? And she went to the Supreme Court for a campaign photo op with Ruth Bader Ginsburg. No, you don`t remember that because that never happened, and never could happen.
In our search, today we have been unable to find a Supreme Court justice, appointed by a Democrat or Republican who has posed for a campaign photograph with a Senate candidate.
Herschel Walker`s Senate campaign tweeted the picture of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas with the candidate. He put it out right away, there it is. Campaign photograph of a Supreme Court justice endorsing, basically, a Republican candidate for Senate. It doesn`t say an endorsement, but was not look like?
Senator Chris Murphy tweeted, quote, a conservative Supreme Court justice doing a photo-op with a Republican candidate on a competitive primary, I think the court has crossed the Rubicon. We need to pass the Supreme Court Ethics Act.
And it is thanks to Clarence Thomas` out of control behavior that many Americans are now discovering for the first time that the Supreme Court has no ethics rules whatsoever, none, no rules at all, from when a Supreme Court justice must recused from a case.
[22:05:11]
But there is a federal law, one federal law that specifies that the Supreme Court justices may not participate in cases that involve their spouses in any way. That`s it. That`s the only real rule and it`s a law affecting Supreme Court justices. But that law does not have a criminal enforcement mechanism. You can`t get charged with a crime for violating the law, because it was inconceivable to the people writing that law that any Supreme Court justice would ever violate it. No member of the Supreme Court in history has ever been suspected of, or accused of anything as about as what we already know Clarence Thomas actually did.
In January, Clarence Thomas was only member of the Supreme Court who voted to prevent the January 6 committee from obtaining documents, records, and communications from the Trump White House. We don`t yet know for certain, but it is extremely likely that the material Clarence Thomas specifically voted to block from being delivered to the January 6 committee contains communications from Clarence Thomas`s wife to and from the Trump White House.
And the reason we have every right to suspect that is, immaterial already handed over the January 6 committee by Donald Trump`s last White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, there were several text messages and emails from Clarence Thomas`s wife, Virginia, Thomas to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows urging him and everyone there to do everything possible to illegally overturn the results of the presidential election.
In one of her messages to Mark Meadows, Virginia Thomas said, quote: There are no rules in war.
Virginia Thomas knew that she had a lot of direct written communication with the Trump White House. When she also knew that her husband was going to rule on a case involving the delivery of Trump White House communications to the January 6 committee.
Three weeks ago, when reporting by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa and “The Washington Post” revealed some of Virginia Thomas` communications to and from the White House, there were immediate demands from Democratic senators and House members that Clarence Thomas recuse himself from all future Supreme Court cases involving the Trump White House communications, and actually, anything else about the presidential election.
Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe joined us on this program and pointed out that Clarence Thomas had clearly violated that federal law that requires Supreme Court justices to recuse themselves in cases that involve their spouses in any way.
Clarence Thomas waited out the news media`s attention span in silence. And a few days, after the revelations about Virginia Thomas`s communications with the Trump White House, the story largely disappeared. And then, and then, Clarence Thomas decides to step into a Senate campaign in Georgia.
And Clarence Thomas did that for a candidate who fully supports Donald Trump slide the presidential election was stolen, and a candidate who was accused by his former wife of putting a gun to her head and threatening to blow her brains out. Herschel Walker has never denied that accusation. And Herschel Walker says that at the time he was suffering from a mental disorder that gave him 12 different personalities.
If Herschel Walker loses the Senate campaign in Georgia, and he goes to court to fight that outcome, and his case makes it all the way to the Supreme Court, will Clarence Thomas recuse himself from the Herschel Walker case?
Republican senators including Mitch McConnell insist that Clarence Thomas should not recuse himself from any cases in any — under any circumstances even if they involve his wife`s communications.
Senator Cruz insists that Clarence Thomas should not recuse himself from any cases for any reasons. But Senator Cruz thinks the newest member of the Supreme Court should absolutely recuse herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): So, now, you are on the board of overseers of Harvard. If you`re confirmed, do you intend to recuse from this lawsuit?
JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE DESIGNATE: That is my plan, Senator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump is a subject of a criminal investigation by District Attorney Fani Willis in Georgia. If Donald Trump is accused of criminal election interference in Georgia, and that case comes before the United States Supreme Court, will Clarence Thomas recuse himself?
Yesterday, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney left the possibility that the January 6 Committee would make a criminal referral to the Justice Department to criminally prosecute Donald Trump.
[22:10:11]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): We have not made a decision about referrals on the committee. I think that it is absolutely the case. It`s absolutely clear that what President Trump was doing, with what a number of people around them were doing, that they knew it was unlawful. They did anyway.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: If Donald Trump becomes a federal criminal defendant, and that case goes to the Supreme Court, will Clarence Thomas recuse himself? Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson will recuse herself from a case involving Harvard`s admissions policies.
But Clarence Thomas will not recuse himself from a case involving his wife`s communications about a criminal attempt to overthrow a presidential election. Clarence Thomas will not recuse himself from a case involving Donald Trump`s conspiracy to overthrow the presidential election? An illegal scheme that involves Clarence Thomas`s wife and her support of that illegal scheme?
It seems Clarence Thomas agrees with his wife when she said, quote, there are no rules in war.
Leading off our discussion tonight, Charles Blow, columnist for “The New York Times”, and an MSNBC political analyst.
Charles, this — this is one of those stories that lost the media tension span. And then letting it go, they — Clarence Thomas felt totally free to step into a turned out to be a campaign photograph for Herschel Walker last week.
CHARLES BLOW, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. And, Lawrence, I would like to remind the audience here of the speech that Clarence Thomas gave just six months ago in Notre Dame when he was chastising other members of the court who he was afraid to name and they said that they were becoming too political at the time. They said that the court was not off as the less dangerous branch, but it could become the most dangerous branch.
And it seems to me that what Clarence Thomas was engaged in was the same thing that Donald Trump regularly safely engages in, which is projection, accusing other people of doing the very thing that he is doing, or plans to do. Clarence Thomas is clearly stepping into the political lane, the same thing that he was accusing other people of doing in — at Notre Dame.
And he is also shielding his wife. And also, as you pointed out, not recusing himself from those particular case. That — Murphy is exactly right. Murphy is a co-sponsor of this ethics bill, Supreme Court Ethics Act. We need that act.
We never imagined that Supreme Court justice would be this way. Besides, we never imagined that the president would behave the way Donald Trump does, and here we are, and they`re behaving that way, and we need guardrails up to constrain them. And what the act a does is a very short bell, it just requires that the digital conference creates ethics rules. I`m not even sure how, as you reported, the rule that it is no law, and what is the importance of that? How do you enforce this? I`m not sure, but at least would have some rules. We have nothing.
O`DONNELL: Yeah, and right now, the only way you could conceivably enforce this rule, this law that convinced almost violated about participating in a case that involves as wife, is that if you lost, if you`re on the losing side of that case, you could theoretically, and only theoretically, sue Clarence Thomas for his participation in that case, saying that he violated that law presenting quite a dilemma for the Supreme Court.
But this is what Supreme Court justices have been interested not to do. It`s been believed that because they`ve been through the system, they are creatures of the system. When they get to the top of the mountain, they`re going to behave flawlessly and carefully. And Clarence Thomas is just throwing this in the face of the other justices.
BLOW: Yeah. But, Lawrence, we have never even considered this to the point that if someone were to sue Clarence Thomas, and the case would have to be heard before the Supreme Court, there`s — it`s not clear to me that he could recuse himself in a case in which he will suit. We have never been at a space where we`ve had to consider this. But we now are there.
And we must do something, and the act itself as the first place to start. It is already passed the House of Representatives based on the party line vote.
[22:15:03]
It now is in the hands of structure. He can schedule this act for a vote. The Democrats have control of the Senate, they can schedule it. I don`t know the moderates stand on this, maybe they`ve done all the counting and they go past.
But they are in control, and they can bring it to a vote. We must have them — must pressure them to make them bring this up for a vote.
O`DONNELL: Charles, I have to say, I was surprised at the confirmation hearing since the story about Clarence Thomas, his failure to recuse was already out there. I was surprised that any Republican senator went into the question of recusal, and Ted Cruz desperately wants Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson to recuse from a case involving a colleges admissions policy.
But this is the same senator who was saying that, oh no, Clarence Thomas does enough to recuse himself from anything, including cases involving his wife.
BLOW: But that`s the thing, though. Liberals are still playing by the rulebook. Republicans burned that rulebook a long time ago. They don`t feel any obligation to play by it.
But they can put that question to Ketanji Brown Jackson, and she`s going to answer it in the proper way, which is to say, she believes that she should recuse herself. And she`d recuse herself. That makes sense because that`s the right thing to do.
Republicans are not playing by the rulebook anymore, and I think Democrats to — and liberals in general need to wake up to this idea. They are not playing by the rulebook that you are playing by. You are all following rules, they have burned it. They are — this is warfare — guerrilla warfare for Republicans. It is win at all costs, and nothing is off the table.
O`DONNELL: Charles Blow, thank you very much for starting us off tonight. Really appreciate.
BLOW: Absolutely, thanks for having me.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
And, to follow Charles` point about the different rules for Democrats and Republicans, not one Republican, not one who was ever complained about Hunter Biden`s businesses has said a word about Saudi Arabia`s murderous dictator giving Jared Kushner, just giving him $2 billion of Saudi blood money. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:22:01]
O`DONNELL: After Saudi Arabia`s dictator ordered the murder and dismemberment of “Washington Post” journalist Jamal Khashoggi, Donald Trump refused to counsel the $110 billion sale of military equipment to Saudi Arabia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: We`re staying with Saudi Arabia, and by the way, just so everybody knows, I have no business whatsoever with Saudi Arabia. Couldn`t careless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Donald Trump`s daughter now has a huge business with Saudi Arabia. Since matrimony law grants Ivanka Trump a minimum of 50 percent share of all of the wealth created by her husband Jared Kushner, the murderous dictator of Saudi Arabia just paid Donald Trump`s daughter directly at least $1 billion by investing a total of $2 billion in an investment fund created by Jared Kushner who has never before run an investment fund.
In a 24 hours since this massive Saudi investment in Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump was discovered and reported by “The New York Times”, we have not heard one word objection from any of the Republicans who spend their days and nights obsessed with the possibility that Hunter Biden might have all earned a few hundred thousand dollars from people who would not have been in business with him if his father had not been vice president of the United States.
No, I wish these weren`t the case, I wish there were rules against this in Washington, but there aren`t, and there are literally thousands of family members, of members of Congress in our history, who profited because they were related to a member of Congress. There have been dozens that I know, of and possibly hundreds and hundreds of actual lobbyists in Washington who were, or are related to members of Congress. Their sons, their daughters, wives, this is not been forever.
Hunter Biden`s activities are reportedly being investigated by a grand jury. But Jared Kushner is much more blatant public sale of his influence on the Trump White House decision-making is not the subject of a criminal investigation.
“The New York Times” obtained documents and communications from inside the $620 billion Saudi investment slush funds. Everyone involved in there — in evaluating Jared Kushner`s request for money from the Saudis, everyone thought it was a bad idea. “The New York Times” reports objections included, quote, the experience of Jared Kushner and they found that the investment fund Jared Kushner was setting up was, quote, unsatisfactory in all respects.
[22:25:02]
And the people evaluating this request that the management fee that would guarantee Jared Kushner at least $25 million a year, quote, seems excessive. And they also found that doing business with Jared Kushner would have public relations risk.
And after all of that professional assessment, Mohammed bin Salman, the murderous dictator of Saudi Arabia, simply overruled the investment professionals in Saudi Arabia, and handed Jared Kushner $2 billion to play with any way Jared Kushner wants to.
This is $2 billion in blood money that Jared Kushner earned with his unflinching public support for the murderous Saudi dictator, even after we knew that not only was Jamal Khashoggi murdered, but his body was cut up in pieces by the murderers. They did it all on tape. An audiotape of the gang of Saudi murders in action was revealed by the Turkish government a month after the murder in Istanbul.
You`ll never hear any Republican who insists that Hunter Biden should be investigated, ever insist that Donald Trump`s son-in-law and Donald Trump`s daughter should be investigated for taking $2 billion from Saudi Arabia. You will never hear a Republican who complains about how much we have to pay for gasoline, ever complain about Jared Kushner getting $2 billion in oil profit money from Saudi Arabia.
A few months ago, when the news broke that Jared Kushner was begging Saudi Arabia for money, President Obama`s deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes joined us on this program to explain the deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN RHODES, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Lawrence, unfortunately, it`s not that surprising, but it is disgusting, it`s corruption on a massive scale.
I think what you have to understand here, and I think a lot of us felt this at the time, with the Saudis, often the payoff are doing their bidding is on the back end. If you look at the Trump record, in which Jared is running point in the Mohammed Bin Salman relationship, you saw the Trump administration cover for the Saudis after the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and his dismemberment at a consulate in Turkey.
You saw them do their bidding in pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal, clearly, a mistake of historic proportions, and you saw them basically have a foreign policy that was 100 percent in line with the wishes of Saudi Arabia. Now, having done their bidding, Jared is going to collect on the back end from a murderous autocrat in Saudi Arabia that he could personally enrich himself.
And if that wasn`t bad enough, we know Donald Trump is the front runner for the Republican nomination in 2024, the Saudis are both rewarding somebody for a job well done from their perspective, if this goes forward, and making a down payment on what they might expect from a future Trump presidency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Coming up, we look at the latest from Ukraine and the grim prediction of someone who met with Vladimir Putin face to face today. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:33:04]
O`DONNELL: Boris Johnson did something truly Churchillian this weekend. On Saturday, the British prime minister walked the streets of Kyiv with President Zelenskyy.
During World War II, Winston Churchill wanted to be closer to the front lines, and actually wanted to be on a British ship in the English Channel, watching the D-Day invasion but security concerns prevented him from doing that.
After the British prime minister`s show solidarity with President Zelenskyy and the people of Ukraine, Austria`s chancellor became the first European leader to meet face to face with Vladimir Putin since Putin began his war in Ukraine.
According to the “New York Times”, Chancellor Karl Nehammer left the meeting, quote, “fearing that Mr. Putin intended to drastically intensify the brutality of the war”. Said the battle being threatened cannot be underestimated in it`s violence.
To deliver that violence, Vladimir Putin has chosen a new commanding general for his war in Ukraine, a man known as the “butcher of Syria”. The Associated Press reports that when General Aleksandr Dvornikov commanded Russian troops in Syria in 2015, well, Russian forces in Syria were known for crushing dissent in part by destroying cities, lobbying artillery and dropping what were often crudely made barrel bombs in sustained attacks that have displaced millions of Syrian civilians.
Defense Department press secretary Admiral John Kirby said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT PRESS SECRETARY: He and other senior Russian leaders have shown, in the past, and you mentioned Syria as one example, have shown clearly, in the past, their disregard for avoiding civilian harm. They`re utter disregard in many ways for the laws of war, the laws (ph) of conflict. And the brutality with which they conduct and prosecute their operations.
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KIRBY: We`re probably turning another page in the same book of Russian brutality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Pentagon officials said they are monitoring a report that Russians possibly used chemical weapons against the people of Mariupol. Tonight, President Zelenskyy said that report, quote, “testifies to their preparation for a new stage of terror against Ukraine”.
In an address to South Korea`s parliament today, President Zelenskyy said, quote, “tens of thousands of civilians have been killed in Mariupol” and warned that Russia is preparing for another offensive.
Satellite images captured this eight mile long convoy of Russian military vehicles heading to eastern Ukraine where airstrikes are increasing. Officials say that Friday`s attack on fleeing civilians at a train station killed 57 people, and wounded 114.
On “60 Minutes” last night, President Zelenskyy asked for more weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They have to supply weapons to Ukraine, as if they were defending themselves and their own people.
They need to understand this. If they don`t speed up, it will be very hard for us to hold on against this pressure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, NBC News correspondent Ali Arouzi in Lviv. Ali, what is the situation tonight?
ALI AROUZI, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Lawrence. Well, after the Russians failed to capture Kyiv, they made no secret that their entire focus is going to be on the Donbas area. And it looks like they are preparing for a colossal assault on that area.
Not only is that eight-mile long convoy of Russian hardware heading east to the Donbas region, tens of thousands of Russian troops are also being repositioned to attack that area.
They are getting a new ground commander, General Dvornikov, a man that`s being described as an old school general, a blood and soil nationalist, trained in Soviet military doctrine that believes in annihilating civilian targets to gain battlefield momentum.
And it`s a strategy he used in brutal effect in Syria. Wiping out cities across the Idlib province, razing Aleppo to the ground, targeting civilian pillars like schools, hospitals and bread queues. And we have seen the Russians already do that here in Ukraine.
But Ukrainian civilians feel that the worst is still to come, not least of all because they think Dvornikov wants to prove to Putin that he picked the right man to get the job done.
And elsewhere in this country, Lawrence, in Kharkiv, the Russians have been shelling that city, dropping parachute munitions to spread in a wide area and target civilians.
We have seen more crimes coming to light in places like Bucha and (INAUDIBLE). Bodies being found, showing signs of torture. Mass graves being uncovered. And in Mariupol, the situation is getting much worse.
Let`s take a listen to a resident in Mariupol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We thought the worst thing is an air bomb but in fact, the most terrifying thing is a tank. There is nothing worse than a tank. When it moves while you are lying on the ground, you could hear the sound of the gun in movement. That is very scary.
You can really hear it. You don`t know where it will shoot. We got lucky. We were at the second entrance. We survived.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AROUZI: These people were living normal lives a couple of months ago, now they have to be familiar with the sound of a tank coming to kill them. It is unimaginable to think, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Ali Arouzi, thank you for your reporting tonight, and please stay safe.
Thank you, Ali.
Joining our discussion now, Tom Nichols, contributing writer at “The Atlantic” and retired professor at the U.S. Naval War College. Also with us, retired Australian Army Major General Mick Ryan. He is the author of “War Transformed: the Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict”.
And Tom Nichols, I want to begin with the new commanding general, General Dvornikov. What difference are you anticipating from that command change?
TOM NICHOLS, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I think what everybody is expecting, that he is going to try to prove to Putin that he is willing to kill enough Ukrainians and destroy enough buildings, and butcher enough people to get the job done. The question is, what is the job he has been set to do? Is it to capture Mariupol? Is it to secure the Donbas?
[22:39:45]
NICHOLS: I think the problem here is that there is still, the Russians are still reeling from the failure of Plan A. And I think Plan B, at this point, probably has more limited objectives in the east, but that there is just an element now of punishing the Ukrainians for their defiance, and somehow trying to put salve on the wound of Putin`s obvious humiliation here. I think that — you know, that doesn`t bode well for what is about to happen here.
O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to something else that President Zelenskyy said on “60 Minutes” last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: The Ukrainian Security Service has intercepted communications, he told us. There are Russian soldiers talking with their parents about what they stole, who they abducted. There are recordings of Russian prisoners of war who admitted to killing people.
There are pilots in prison who had maps with civilian targets to bomb. Everyone who is relevant to this, I believe they are all guilty.
SCOTT PELLEY, HOST, “60 MINUTES”: Do you hold Putin responsible?
ZELENSKYY: I do believe he is one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: General Ryan, do we think that the high command in Russia is seeing this kind of news media? And for example, when there is a new commander assigned to Ukraine, does that general have to have some concerns about being accused and charged as a war criminal himself?
MAJOR GENERAL MICK RYAN, AUSTRALIAN ARMY (RET): I very much doubt that he is concerned by those things because his president right from the very start has considered Ukraine as a non country.
So the Russian strategy from the beginning has been about the extermination of the Ukrainian state. And all their military tactics so far in deliberately targeting cities and civilians have followed on from that presidential directive around Ukraine not being a real country.
O`DONNELL: Tom, I want to go back to Boris Johnson, walking in the streets of Kyiv this weekend. It was really quite a striking image. We have really never seen anything like it in a war. The leader of a country who is not actually engaged in the war, voluntarily going there, going right into the line of fire. It was really an extraordinary thing to see.
Maybe it is not the last of these kinds of visits that we will see?
NICHOLS: Well, Boris Johnson isn`t often Churchillian, but the symbolism here was hard to miss. Along with other NATO heads of state and dignitaries who have gone to Kyiv, as if to make the point that this is a country that is still open to the west, and still a place where they can go and meet their president.
One of the things I`m sure that infuriates Putin, is he fully expected Zelenskyy to flee within hours of the invasion over a month ago. And now to see him talking to the American Congress, walking with the British Prime Minister, addressing the Korean parliament, it is really, I`m sure, really adds to the humiliation here, and emphasizes the failure of the Russian, the whole Russian strategic concept.
O`DONNELL: General Ryan, we watched the 40-mile convoy of Russian military fail in its mission in Ukraine. This new eight-mile convoy, how is this one different?
RYAN: Well, it is probably one of many convoys, we just happen to be seeing this one. There will be lots of convoys coming out of Belarus both by road and by rail, to reinforce the Russians in the east.
But a lot of those convoys will be hollow units and semi functional equipment. So while the Russians may be reinforcing their military in the east for an offensive, a lot of those forces that are going in are of questionable quality and have probably got very low meaning and very low quality leaders.
O`DONNELL: Major General Mick Ryan and Tom Nichols, thank you both very much for joining our discussion tonight.
NICHOLS: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
RYAN: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: And coming up, Vladimir Putin is on a mass murder spree in Ukraine but his war will kill people, thousands of people, away from the battlefield, oceans away from the battlefield as starvation spreads in the poor countries of the world, countries that are dependent on wheat exports from Ukraine. Vladimir Putin`s war on of the world is next.
[22:44:38]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: President Zelenskyy chose to focus on how Russia is using hunger as a weapon. In his address to the Irish parliament, President Zelenskyy knew that his message about hunger would resonate in Ireland, which has never recovered the population Ireland lost to famine in the 19th century. Ireland is the only country in the world that had a much larger population in 1840 than it has today. The Irish lost a million people to starvation between 1845 and 1851, and Ireland lost another million people at that time through immigration.
[22:49:52]
O`DONNELL: Most of the Irish-named people you know now in the United States are descended from people who fled the Irish famine. Here is what President Zelenskyy told the Irish parliament.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: They also have blocked all of the sea ports together with the vessels that had already agricultural cargo for exports.
Why are they doing this? Because, for them, hunger is also a weapon. A weapon against us, ordinary people, as an instrument of domination.
Ukraine is one of the leading food-supplying countries in the world. Without our exports — this is not just about the deficit and the threat of hunger for more than dozens of countries, Asia and Africa, but even more because there will be a shortage of food and the prices will go up.
And this is reality for the millions of people who are hungry. And it will be more difficult for them to feed their families, especially in north Africa.
Russia is using this hunger weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now from Lviv, Ukraine is Tomson Phiri with the United Nations World Food Programme. Thank you very much for joining us. I want to focus — I know you are in Ukraine, working on the food situation in Ukraine which is also a crisis there. But I want to focus on what this means to people and countries far from Ukraine.
Russia is the biggest fertilizer exporter in the world; Ukraine, a massive wheat exporter. What is this doing to hungry people around the world?
Tomson Phiri, United Nations World Food Programme: It is (INAUDIBLE), this conflict is exacting upward pressure on needs, even before the onset of the conflict here in Ukraine.
Approximately 157 million people were in need. And the World Food Programme was gearing up to undertake one of its biggest operations yet.
And then we now have the conflict. Food prices were already high, they are now skyrocketing. Many, many people were unable to meet their food needs already. Needs were outstripping available resources. And we have had to cut rations in many countries.
What that means is that those people are no longer able to find food easily. And WFP at the same time is now are struggling to feed many, many people.
O`DONNELL: What are the countries that are most sharply and painfully affected by this?
PHIRI: Yemen is top of mind. Syria comes to mind. You also have many countries, no fewer than 40 countries, that import directly from this region in Africa. Countries like Somalia, where a raging drought is threatening to decimate people.
It has already decimated lives — I was in northern Kenya just a month ago, and seeing people losing livestock and people afraid of what they happen (ph). The situation has worsened now. You also have countries further south that rely on sunflower oil import from this region that are (INAUDIBLE) for the peace (ph). Countries like Mozambique, countries like Madagascar.
You also have countries like Lebanon that import half its wheat from this region. You also have Egypt, but the list goes on.
O`DONNELL: What are the numbers of people who are hungry in these places?
PHIRI: Oh, the numbers are staggering. For example, WFP is feeding 18 million in the Yemen. We are feeding 5.5 million people in South Sudan. We are feeding upwards of 10 million people, in fact, 20 million people in Afghanistan who need food now.
There are 18 million people who are on the brink and need assistance across the west Africa — west African region and the Sahelan (ph) countries. This situation is also bad in east Africa in the Horn of Africa, where upwards of 18 million people need assistance.
O`DONNELL: Tomson Phiri, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.
PHIRI: Thank you, Lawrence, for having me.
O`DONNELL: Thank you. Tonight`s LAST WORD is next.
[22:54:25]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The (INAUDIBLE) call this rule I`m about to announce extreme, extreme. But let me ask you, is it extreme to protect police officers? Extreme to protect our children? Extreme to keep guns out of the hands of people who couldn`t even pass a background check?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today in the Rose Garden, President Biden announced new restrictions on homemade guns, known as ghost guns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: There are too many survivors and advocates here for me to name everyone today, but let me say, the loss in this crowd is incalculable. But so is the strength.
A year ago this week, standing here with many of you, I instructed the attorney general to write a regulation that would rein in the proliferation of ghost guns, because I was having trouble getting it passed in the Congress. But I used what we call regulatory authority.
A year later, we are here to keep that promise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:00:01]
O`DONNELL: Among those at the White House for today`s event was Parkland High School shooting survivor David Hogg. After the White House event, David Hogg said, “Am I happy about everything the administration is doing and do I think it`s enough? No. But this is a step forward. When you have 100 percent of the power, you can get 100 percent of what you want. When you don`t, and you have 50 percent of the power, you can get 50 percent.”
That is tonight`s LAST WORD.
“THE 11TH HOUR WITH STEPHANIE RUHLE” starts now.