Updated
Summary
Former Vice President Mike Pence`s chief of staff appeared before a federal grand jury investigating the Jan. 6th attack and the 1/6 committee releases more evidence showing Trump`s resistance condemn the Capitol rioters. Plus, as gas prices drop, President Biden predicts we won`t see a recession.
Transcript
AYMAN MOHYELDIN, MSNBC ANCHOR: Uvalde School officials have not confirmed when that meeting will be rescheduled. Yesterday mark two months since that mass murder. That is tonight`s “LAST WORD”. I`m Ayman Mohyeldin. Thanks for watching. THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts right now.
[23:00:18]
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, still more compelling evidence in the House January 6 investigation, including proof of Trump`s reluctance to condemn the rioters and new testimony signaling new progress in the Justice Department`s investigation into the insurrection.
Then, are those cracks in the cozy relationship between the former guy and conservative media. Plus, as gas prices drop, the President predicts no recession. Whether there is or not will Americans ever buy what he`s selling? We`ll ask a member of his administration as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Monday night.
Good evening. Once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. A top Trump White House insider has now officially appeared under oath before the federal grand jury investigating the Capitol riot. Tonight, we learned Marc short, chief of staff to former Vice President Mike Pence has cooperated with the Justice Department`s investigation into the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC SHORT, FMR CHIEF OF STAFF TO FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: I can confirm that I did receive a subpoena for the federal grand jury and I comply with that subpoena. That was my only appearance before the grand jury.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: NBC News reports, Short testified on Friday. He would be the highest ranking former Trump official known to have testified before the grand jury. Short was by Pence aside as the mob overran the Capitol and called for the vice president himself to be hanged.
Short also testified before the Jan. 6 Committee earlier this year. The Wall Street Journal and New York Times reporting Pence`s top legal adviser Greg Jacob has also spoken to the grand jury. He was also a witness at January 6 hearing back in June.
And today the January 6 committee is out with new evidence. You`ll remember last week the panel released video of Trump the day after the riot refusing to say that the election was over. Well, today a committee member Elaine Luria released previously unseen evidence of Trump`s resistance to condemn the rioters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recognize what this is?
IVANKA TRUMP, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR FORMER President TRUMP: It looks like a copy of a draft of the remarks for that day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And as you can see throughout the document, there are lines crossed out, there are some words added in do you recognize the handwriting?
TRUMP: It looks like my father`s handwriting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like here that he crossed out that he was directing the Department of Justice to ensure all law breakers are prosecuted to the full extent of the law, we must send a clear message not with mercy but with Justice. Legal consequences must be swept in firm. Do you know why he wanted that crossed out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Earlier this evening, Luria spoke about the significance of this new information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ELAINE LURIA (D-VA) JAN. 6 COMMITTEE MEMBER: Just gave additional detail about you know what went into the speech. It`s really enlightening to me, you know, the parts that he crossed out, and we wanted to make sure to share that information because it provides amplifying details on what we shared in the hearing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Meanwhile, the AP reports the committee wants to interview more Trump cabinet members. And they may also be preparing to subpoena the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Ginni Thomas is as you recall is under scrutiny for her role in pushing to overturn the 2020 election results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): We want to have a voluntary conversation, you know, just come on and she said I think somewhere in the media that she was eager to talk to the committee. That`s it. Come in, let`s talk if we need to subpoena we will, but we prefer obviously to just find out what she knows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: As for Trump, he has not been in Washington since departing on January 20 2021. Tomorrow, he returned to our nation`s capitol to speak to the America First Agenda Summit.
With that, let`s get smarter tonight with the help of our leadoff panel. Yamiche Alcindor joins us, NBC News correspondent and moderator of Washington Week on PBS, Neal Katyal, Department of Justice veteran and former acting Solicitor General during the Obama administration. He has argued dozens of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and Robert Gibbs is here. Former Obama campaign senior advisor and White House Press Secretary.
Mr. Katyal, I`ve got to go to you first. What do you make of this new testimony? It`s not to the Jan. 6 Committee, it is to the Grand Jury.
[23:05:00]
NEAL KATYAL, FMR. ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL: It`s a big deal to me. So the grand jury subpoena means that, that there`s evidence relevant to a criminal investigation. And they`ve called in top White House officials, two of them not random insurrectionists or anything like that. And it`s a subpoena. So it`s not some nice request from prosecutors, Stephanie, it`s more than that.
And these subpoenas to me are a very strong indication that the Justice Department probe is advancing, and Merrick Garland has been moving slowly in the investigation. But this does show movement. And let`s hope that this shows, that the steps show that Garland is going to basically prove to us that slow and steady does win the race.
And why this is different than the past? We`ve known that there`s a grand jury investigation going into the fake electors plot and Arizona. We know that there`s a grand jury investigation into insurrectionists at the Capitol, those low — relatively low level people.
But what this is, is a request about stuff going on in the White House around January 6, and both Marc Short, and Greg Jacobs have given testimony for the January 6 committee and we all saw it was live a lot of that testimony about just how crazy this plot was, and Trump`s aiding and abetting and encouragement of it.
So all of that`s now being teed up, presumably to the grand jury is a big, big deal in, you know, ordinary times the idea that a White House official would be brought before a grand jury is big, huge news. We`re a nerd to it a little bit just because we hear so much about Trump wrongdoing, and so on. But this is a very substantial, Steph.
RUHLE: Yamiche, you`ve covered the former guy for quite some time. And we`ve seen it time and again, when someone speaks out against him who was part of his circle. He always says there are coffee boy and errand boy, I didn`t know them. They were irrelevant. Short and Jacobs. How significant are they? How senior were they, at least in the Mike Pence world?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, PBS WASHINGTON WEEK MODERATOR: They were incredibly significant. And incredibly senior in the Trump White House, of course, Marc short was the chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. And before that he was the legislative affairs liaison for the Trump White House. So he was the face of the Trump White House going to Congress negotiating with lawmakers.
So this is someone who is very familiar with former President Trump. President Trump could not begin to even try to lie about the fact that he doesn`t know Marc Short and then that Marc Short was an incredibly important meetings.
I think what`s important about who Marc Short is and sort of the world that he`s coming from is that the Vice President`s office and Marc Short himself, they`ve not wanted to talk about January 6 too much. They`ve not wanted to sort of focus on it because Mike Pence has been out there wanting to talk about inflation and sort of criticizing Biden.
But when you ask Pence people, I`m including Marc Short about January 6, they don`t hold back. Marc Short has been very clear. And I talked to him last week ahead of the January 6 hearing personally, he`s been very clear that the January 6 that the Capitol riot was it was a shameful, shameful moment that it was wrong that the Vice President had never had any sort of power to overturn the 2020 election.
And he really understands the danger that Mike Pence was under and what it meant for a crowd that was already chanting, hang Mike Pence to then get a tweet at 2:24 from former President Trump on January 6, saying that he was criticizing Mike Pence again while he was being evacuated.
So apart from the sort of knowing what the danger that Mike Pence was in, he`s going to be very familiar with the pressure campaign that former President Trump was putting on my friends because he would have been not only in those rooms, but he also would have been along with Greg Jacobs. He — They would have been the people who are counseling Mike Pence, and really understanding sort of the position that Vice — the Vice President was in. And they came away thinking that it was on tenuous and that what President Trump was asking Mike Pence to do was simply illegal and not something that he could do.
RUHLE: Mr. Gibbs, let`s talk communications and impact. We know there is huge interest in these hearings when you look at the viewership numbers from last week. But this new video that was just released tonight, clearly the committee is trying to keep public interest up. You think it`s working?
ROBERT GIBBS, FMR. OBAMA CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Oh, absolutely. I think the hearings have become must see TV. To your point, Stephanie, you know, each and every day, something new comes out. I think a lot of us, myself included were worried that we knew most of what we were going to know about the days leading up to and that day of January the sixth. They`ve kept the tension going by entering new evidence, new witnesses into this discussion.
And look, they announced that, as the hearing concluded last Thursday, they already announced more hearings, which means more people are coming forward. More people are testifying, more people are telling stories.
So if you were thinking about this as a TV show, and I know Donald Trump is, the season, the plot thickens, the season goes on and there`s no doubt there — we`re learning more they`re learning more. And it`s creating again must see TV for people to watch throughout the fall.
[23:10:09]
RUHLE: And we`re watching what the committee is finding. We cannot see what the Department of Justice is doing. And that`s where the real impact is.
Neal, our friend Andrew Weissmann tweeted this, Trump false statement on January 7th, quote, I immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders. Proof positive that he had zero intent to stop the insurrection as he was all for it succeeding. These are Andrew`s words. Now you think he`s right.
KATYAL: Yes, I think that that in conjunction by itself, maybe not enough, but in conjunction with so much other evidence? Absolutely. I mean, a federal judge has already looked at this and said, it`s more likely than not that Donald Trump is committed two felonies on January 6. And then the evidence today that you were referring to at the top of your show, Stephanie, about Representative Luria showing that, you know, Donald Trump struck out of the speech on that day January 7, a line about how the rioters would be prosecuted, and tellingly struck out a line where Trump would have said that the writers did not represent him or his movement. They wanted that out, too.
But if you just take a step back, it`s really startling to think about how Donald Trump just 24 hours after this violent mob stormed the Capitol is sitting in the White House, editing his speech, and he`s not trying to make the men to find the words to mend our country or our democracy. He`s just trying to make sure he doesn`t offend the rioters, you know, Trump`s dedicated more time to line editing his speech that, you know, to appease the rioters than he did to sue the country.
And so I do think all of that`s relevant when it gets that question of criminal intent, which no doubt the Justice Department is starting to think about.
RUHLE: But he didn`t pardon any of them, which is forever interesting to me. Yamiche, President Biden said something today that we don`t often hear, he called out Trump for lacking the courage to act on January 6, that`s somewhat rare for the president. He doesn`t talk much about January 6. He leaves it to the committee and others. But here we are, Trump is showing up in DC tomorrow for an event, and Biden`s calling them out. Are we going to expect more of that?
ALCINDOR: Well, I think what we can expect from President Biden is to really, I think, hammer home the point that he believes former President Trump is a danger to our democracy, that he failed to act on January 6, in fact that he`s poured gasoline on a hot burning fire that became a deadly fire and that people were killed during the capital attack.
President Biden, when I talked to White House officials is really trying to have a balancing act here, right. He wants to make sure people understand that he`s as angry as most Americans that see former President Trump as problematic and dangerous.
But he also wants to, of course, be seen as someone who`s focused on the issues of the day, including inflation and abortion, politics, and the pandemic and so many other things that he has to deal with. So I think that it`s — it was — it`s a rare moment for him to call up President Trump. But it also shows that he understands that in this moment, as millions of Americans are watching his hearings and learning new information that he wants his voice to be part of that.
So based on my conversations with White House officials, I don`t think we`re going to hear him say this every week. But you could imagine that this will not be the last time that we`ll be calling up on our President Trump about January 6.
RUHLE: Neal, I cannot let you go unless we talk a bit about the Secret Service controversy. I want to share with committee members Zoe Lofgren said earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ZEO LOFGREN (D-CA): I`ll tell you, I have a concern about the inspector general as well. Why did he wait months and months and months and months before telling us some of this that these texts were erased.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: What should the committee do next, Neal?
KATYAL: I think they`ve got to call in all of these secret service top officials. They`ve evidently lawyer it up with private lawyers. They`re not comfortable with the Justice Department lawyers representing them, which to me is a pretty scary sign.
Normally, you use the Justice Department lawyers when you`re a former official, usually don`t use them, because they`re excellent lawyers. So the real reason not to use them is because you`re worried you`re telling — you`re going to have to tell the Justice Department something that you don`t want to tell them.
So there`s something going on here that`s really bad and Congresswoman Lofgren is referring to the inspector general also looking like part of the problem means IG knew about this starting in February, that person is supposed to be an independent watchdog, not someone who aids in the cover up.
Now maybe the IG has some legitimate reason for it. But that`s exactly the kind of stuff that the committee`s got to haul the IG before them under oath right now and get to the bottom of this because this, you know, this is part of a pattern. You know, the Secret Service isn`t telling the truth. So many different Trump people aren`t telling the truth or afraid. Steve Bannon was just prosecuted for being afraid to go and testify under oath and the like.
[23:15:06]
So this is a constant MO of this administration — past administration, the Secret Service, and right now feels like part of it.
RUHLE: But then if the Secret Service, or if several members of the Secret Service aren`t going to use Department of Justice lawyers, and they`re going to hire their own private outside counsel, who pays for that? The taxpayers or those Secret Service members?
KATYAL: It`s usually if you do it, it`s usually at your own expense. So they often have legal defense funds and, you know, crowdsourcing of defense, sometimes the just (INAUDIBLE) will pay for it. But that`s usually when the justice department itself concludes we can`t defend for a particular reason. Here, it looks like this is all driven by the Secret Service, not by the department.
RUHLE: Robert, should the current White House be taking a more aggressive stance in a Secret Service controversy? I mean, at the very least it`s hugely damaging to the reputation of the agency.
GIBBS: Yes, definitely. No doubt that it`s damaging. I think this White House is in a particularly interesting situation, as the Secret Service continues to operate in and around the White House and protect the president.
I agree with Neal, they`ve got to call in the senior members. They`ve got to call in the leader of the Secret Service. Remember to there`s federal records protection involved in this, regardless of whether they got a text that said, Hey, we`re switching your phone. So protect your texts. We went through a whole presidential campaign around federal records.
So I think everybody is pretty clear about what happens and what has to be preserved. The notion that somehow these should only be preserved because they were told to preserve them is silly. There`s plenty of federal protections around these records and people have to answer questions as to what happened, why they disappeared to Neal`s point, why did it take so long for us to understand this. All of this is really crucial, because the idea that they just happened to be missing these few days, I think is a little rich, even for Washington.
RUHLE: A little rich indeed. Yamiche Alcindor, Neal Katyal, Robert Gibbs, thank you all for joining tonight. I appreciate it.
When we come back, Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn is here on the so called party of law and order and more stunning revelations from the Jan. 6 Committee. And later, as gas prices drop, the President says we are going to avoid a recession. We`ll ask a top White House official what that actually means for Americans right now. And what to expect in the months ahead. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on this very busy Monday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:22:20]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: For three hours, the defeated former president united states watch it all happen as he sat in the comfort of the private dining room next to the Oval Office. While he was doing that brave law enforcement officers are subject to the medieval hell for three hours. You can`t be pro insurrection and pro cop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Law enforcement officers are still struggling with what happened on January sick. Here`s a reminder of some of what we heard from Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn. Almost one year ago today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFC. HARRY DUN, CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: Is been the sentiment that`s going around it says everybody`s trying to make January 6 political. Well, it`s not a secret that it was political. They literally were there to stop the steal. Telling the truth shouldn`t be hard. Fighting on January 6, that was hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: I now have the honor and privilege of welcoming Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn joining us tonight. Officer Dunn, thank you so much for being here. You have been inside the room where the hearings are happening. You`ve heard the testimony. You`ve heard the evidence. What does justice look like to you for January 6?
DUNN: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on. It`s great to be on your program. Justice — what does justice look like? I`ve had to answer that question a lot. And often I`ve struggled with answering it because I don`t — my answer changes, selfishly, I want everybody to go to jail. And no matter who it is even up all the way up to the former president.
But realistically, we need to do something, the justice department needs to do something to prevent this just send a message that this is unacceptable. And this won`t happen. We need to figure out something that this cannot happen again. That`s what Justice looks like to me.
RUHLE: You`re still a Capitol police officer. And I know you`re not a political person, but traditionally, Republicans and the former president himself, Trump, they call themselves the party of law and order and traditionally, they`ve had a lot of support from law enforcement. Do you think that`s changed because of January 6?
DUNN: I mean, you know, yes, I`m a police officer, but I also have — I`m a human being with an opinion and I vote and I`m an American citizen, too. So I`m very invested in this democracy too.
[23:25:00]
But as far as these slogans and this rhetoric that goes with the pro police and party of law and order. I mean, you hear from both sides, they fun the police and all this stuff like, everybody has these cliche sayings and these cool saying that looked good in a headline or on a campaign slogan, you know, back to blue and all that stuff.
But when it comes down to it, it`s all about your actions. Like, we don`t have time for all this rhetoric what are you doing to show that your words are actually meaningful, and not just a slowly more talking point.
RUHLE: Well, it has been more than a year and a half since the riot. How have you and your colleagues been recovering after everything you`ve experienced? You go to work day in and day out?
DUNN: No, I work with an amazing group of men and women that are able to do their job. No matter what it`s important for us, we focus on the mission of our job and that`s to keep the members of Congress safe no matter what party, no matter what affiliation, no matter what rhetoric comes out of their mouth.
We are able to look at the bigger picture, which is a big — it`s a big come in — we forgive me for losing the word, but we`re able to just look at the bigger picture is very important for us to be able to do our job and that — that`s integrity. That`s patriotism. That`s our defending democracy, not these people are out here just running around with this rhetoric and it`s infuriating.
Like, you know, forgive me, I`m getting a little worked up right now. Because, you know, what I get worked up when I hear this is back to blue, and we defend you. And what the current president said was right, you cannot support insurrectionists. And you cannot be a patriot. You can`t back the blue and support insurrectionists.
It`s infuriating. But you have to remain focused on the issue of doing your job and being able to do it no matter who is in that seat because it represents democracy, not an individual.
RUHLE: Do you feel betrayed? Do you feel betrayed by members of our government, potentially members of the Secret Service when you`ve watched these hearings, and suddenly people aren`t willing to testify? Or suddenly missing text messages on maybe two of the most important days when these men and women were on the job?
DUNN: You know, until they come forward and give their testimony under oath, it`s all just like I said, just talking. They have a responsibility to do that. And if the committee subpoenas them when and if they do, they need to comply with those laws and those rules that govern this country.
The betrayal that I feel it lies solely at the feet of the former president. He is responsible, and he had the authority, the legal authority, the moral authority, those were his people that were there. And he had the responsibility to call them off. That was his job, not only as the president but just as a decent human being but, you know, the expectations of him being a decent person are gone out the window a long time ago.
RUHLE: Well, I know who`s a decent person tonight. It is you. And I`m grateful that you`re with us. Thank you so much for joining us. Officer Harry Dunn.
DUNN: Thanks for having me on. Have a good one.
RUHLE: When we come back as we wait for key numbers on the economy later this week, we`ll be speaking to a top White House official about what the economy looks like right now. Forget the data. Let`s just get to what`s happening. When THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:33:18]
RUHLE: We are at the start of what could be a critical economic week for the Biden administration. NBC`s Tom Costello gets us started.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
TOM COSTELLO, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Washington and across the country high stakes over four decade high inflation up 9 percent year over year. In Illinois, mother of three and special ed teacher Ellie Alvarado (ph) says it`s taking a financial and emotional toll, clothing up 5 percent, gas up nearly 60 percent, food prices up 10 and a half percent forcing them to cut back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now it`s back to kind of paycheck to paycheck and watching to make sure we`re not going into overdraft.
COSTELLO: At a food bank and Loudoun County, Virginia, so many families are asking for help. They ran out of food after 90 minutes today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are seeing 20 to 25 new families each week that are coming in that are new to us that have never gotten our services before.
COSTELLO: Meanwhile, a new AAA poll finds 88 percent of those asked are cutting back on driving due to higher gas prices. While prices have recently dropped, they`re still averaging 4.36 a gallon nationwide. All of it adding pressure on the Fed expected to raise interest rates another three quarters of a percentage point this week.
Just as second quarter GDP numbers could signal at the economy shrank for two quarters in a row. A common definition for a recession. But Americans are still spending and employers are still hiring. President Biden says a recession is not a done deal.
BIDEN: God willing I don`t think we`re going to see recession.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
RUHLE: We have got a lot to cover on this here to help me break it all down. Brian Deese, Director of the National Economic Council for President Biden`s White House.
[23:35:02]
Brian, there is all of this talk about a possible recession and the technical definition of what it means. Let`s forget that and just get practical. Explain to us the health of our economy right now.
BRIAN DEESE, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: Well, we`re in a transition, and it feels unique, because it is unique. We have never come out of a global pandemic while dealing with the economic impacts of a land war in Europe. So we are in unique territory.
But I think where we are now is coming through a transition from what has been a truly historically fast period of economic growth and job growth, transitioning to something that we certainly hope and our aim is to be more stable growth, that historic progress really has been extraordinary.
We`ve had the fastest job growth and the strongest labor market performance in recent memory. And that has actually given families wherewithal to navigate through what are challenging circumstances. So we see for example, record low credit card delinquencies, record low bankruptcies, record low mortgage delinquencies. And at the same time, we are seeing things slow as you would expect, in this context.
But the key thing right now is that as we are in this transition, the choices we make now, the policy choices we make now whether we actually take more action to lower prices and make things more affordable for families, these will help determine how successful we are at actually making that transition to a place where we are in more stable growth without giving up all of those economic gains that we`ve made.
RUHLE: We have this complicated, massive economy, though, right? For a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, for an hourly worker, for a senior citizen shopping at a grocery store, each one has a vastly different economic reality. So when this White House is considering what levers to pull, what support to give, what economy do you look at?
DEESE: Well, this President, our team, and our entire focus has been on a typical working class family, and is that family in a position where they can achieve what the president likes to refer to as a little bit of breathing room. And what that means is the economic security and the dignity to actually provide for your family and have a little bit left over each month.
So when we make decisions and we operate, we`re thinking about what is that monthly budget? What are the components of that budget? And what can we do to actually make things more affordable, while also continuing the momentum that has driven for example, a very strong job market where we`re seeing wage gains disproportionately on the low end of the income spectrum for the first time in a very long time.
So that`s why you see us focusing on things like prescription drugs, which are a big cost driver, particularly for older people, but also families with people with chronic conditions, for example. And also then very practical costs like internet, something you and I have talked about before, if we can make internet affordable for families that could take 30, 50, 100 bucks off of a family`s typical monthly budget.
Those are the kinds of things that actually people are sitting around kitchen tables and talking about and figuring out how to make these tradeoffs. That`s where our focus is.
RUHLE: Prescription drugs, internet, hugely important things in almost every American household. Do you think people realize that`s what you`re doing? Because politically speaking, you need to sell this to the American people so they`re aware?
DEESE: Well, look, the thing that is the most salient in the economy as your piece leading in just said, is gas prices, because there is a very visible price on almost every corner, in almost every community in the country. And on that score, gas prices are now down about 70 cents, 70 cents in the last six weeks. And for a typical two car driving family, that`s about 100 bucks a month in savings. People certainly see that and they certainly feel that.
But beyond that, our view is that good policy makes good politics. And the more that we can, for example, encourage more people to sign up for the affordable connectivity program. If you let me do a plug, get internet.gov. You can go on, you can find out if you`re one of 50 million Americans who can actually benefit from this program and get lower cost internet.
The more that we do our job and make these programs available, make them accessible, and make them clearer, the more people will understand and across time they`ll feel that in their lives. I think what people want is for us to be focused on doing our job, providing these benefits in a way that again, helps the macro economy make this transition at the same time. And that`s what we`re you know, that`s what we`re here to do.
RUHLE: Gas prices are definitely going down. You`re right about that. Here`s the tricky thing, really for the one White House, people were certainly complaining when they were going up. You`re not hearing that many people complimenting it or thrilled or talking at their kitchen table about the good news about gas prices going down.
[23:40:11]
So you have the challenge of getting the American people positive about the economy. It`s very psychological, how we feel about the economy impacts how we behave, how do you change the way people think because we are in an economic recovery.
DEESE: Well, look, the way people feel is the way people feel and it`s their lived reality. And certainly, our goal was not to try to change or convince people otherwise. But I do think that you are right, some of this is about the way that things are covered. There was a lot more coverage. And we`ve actually seen it in doing scans of media analysis, a lot more coverage when gas prices are going up, then they`re when they`re going down.
So some of the things that we`re trying to do is make very clear to the American people, when those things happen, that they can benefit from them, and that they have an impact in their lives. The President spoke about that issue on Friday. And he`ll speak more about that this week. And we`ll keep at that.
And at the same time, we`re going to keep at things that people may not understand as directly as gas prices, but make a huge difference in their lives. Today, we had a set of CEOs and labor leaders at the White House to talk about the issue of semiconductors computer chips, where people may not before this crisis of totally understood their centrality in our economy.
But I`ll tell you, if you`ve lived through the economy the last couple of years, you`ve seen, for example, how much car prices have added to inflation, about 1/3 of our inflation in the U.S. last year was a function of car prices. And that`s principally because we didn`t have enough semiconductors.
So, we also need to explain and we also need to deliver on addressing issues like that issues that will also mean more jobs, more manufacturing capacity in the United States, but also rebuilding the stability of our supply chains.
So I think we have all seen in one way or another because we couldn`t get a good that we needed or we had to pay too much for another good that our supply chains were too fragile going into this crisis. And we`ve got a lot of work to repair them. But on something like semiconductors, we could do something practical that I think a lot of people understand how it affected in their lives.
RUHLE: Bring on the chips, bring on the semiconductors and secure that domestic supply chain. Good news around. Brian, thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate it. Coming up next, because some of his favorite conservative news outlets finally be turning on the former guy. We`ll be asking the author of the new book, The Big Lie, when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:47:14]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Laying out all of these 187 minutes makes him look horrific.
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): It`s not just me that is saying that Donald Trump is unfit for office. It`s other entities owned by Rupert Murdoch. It`s the New York Post and their editorial on Friday. It`s the Wall Street Journal said the same thing after our hearing on Thursday night. So, I`m going to continue to be guided by making sure I do my duty and making sure that the American people understand the truth.
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RUHLE: And to that very point, here`s what the Wall Street Journal`s Editorial Board had to say, quote, character is revealed in a crisis and Pence passed his January 6 trial. Trump utterly failed his. The New York Post Editorial Board took it even further writing, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country`s chief executive.
Again, we`re lucky to have with us tonight Jonathan Lemire, Politico`s White House bureau chief and of course, host of MSNBC is 5:00 a.m. show way too early. He`s also new author of the book, “The Big Lie, Election Chaos, Political Opportunism, and the State of American Politics After 2020.” That hot new book is out tomorrow and I can tell you, from our friend Jonathan Lemire to you, it is a mystery.
Jonathan, congratulations. I mean, you write in this book that Trump started his political career with lies, and he`s had lots of help from conservative media along the way, how big of a deal is it? To see the right wing start to rupture and kind of start to turn on him?
JONATHAN LEMIRE, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, my book traces the origin of Trump`s political career, which of course began with the racist lie of birtherism. And then I recount how his lie about elections that they would be fraudulent and not conducted fairly, actually began back in August 2016. And otherwise sleepy rally in Columbus, Ohio, suggesting that that year`s election would not be up on the up and up and it traces how he planted those seeds and hijacked the Republican Party and conservative media to go along with that heading up into 2020. And then, of course, January 6.
This is a big deal. The book also pulls back the curtain a little bit. Rupert Murdoch, people forget in 2015, not a Trump supporter really critical of his views, particularly on immigration. But Murdoch and therefore his company is News Corp. They`d like to back a winner and once Trump sees control of the GOP, it went along.
So this is striking that to Murdoch owned editorial pages, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, both came out so stridently against Trump, but we should temper that. Fox News, another Murdoch property, still very much supporting Trump and its influence a far outweighs either of these editorial pages.
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RUHLE: Well, if Trump lies took us here, and he hasn`t really faced any consequences, except, of course losing the last election. Do you think the January 6 hearings will be it? Will he finally face consequences for the lies, the big lie?
LEMIRE: Well, that`s certainly what a lot of Democrats and the small subset of Republicans hope. There are two ways to Trump could face consequences here because these hearings. The hearings have been have been masterful. And we know we`re going to get a couple more in September.
One would be we are seeing that his poll numbers among Republicans slipped not a lot, but have slipped and then perhaps giving an opening to other Republicans to speak freely against him or maybe even challenge him in 2024 was seen as former Vice President Mike Pence, seemingly in the early stages of launching a bid himself but the other of course, and far more significantly, is the audience of one that has Merrick Garland, the Department of Justice, of course, watching these proceedings carefully, if they were to proceed with criminal charges, and that would be an explosive political development and historic one.
That would of course, really complicate matters for Trump going forward timing interesting, the Merrick Garland sitting down for his first interview with our colleague, Lester Holt.
RUHLE: Whether or not Trump moves forward, The Big Lie does dominate in 2022. Has Trump and his allies fueled even deeper distrust in our election system that whether or not we have Trump, he`s caused fractures that are here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future.
LEMIRE: Well, that`s what my book hopes to really point out here is it`s not a Trump book. It`s not even a January 6 book because January 6, though, a combination in a way of Trump`s big lie is far from the end of the story.
What we`ve seen from his club false claims and election fraud is Republican state legislatures using that as pretense as cover to restrict access to the ballot in nearly two dozen states across the country. We`ve seen Trump and his allies tried to install friendly state officials like state secretaries of state, those in charge of certifying election results down the road.
Americans have real fears in 2022 and beyond and 2024, that their votes may not be counted that the rightful winner may not take office because of what`s happening here. And certainly the big lies a litmus test. And for Trump, who, though maybe we can somewhat steal the loudest voice in the Republican Party, to candidates he`s endorsing, they`ll back the big lie. They all believe that he lost. So this lie, shaping our political politics now and 2022, but undoubtedly in 2024 as well.
RUHLE: Well, we`ll see how those candidates do come November. Jonathan, thank you for staying up late with us tonight. And congratulations on your new book out tomorrow, “The Big Lie: Election Chaos, Political Opportunism, and the State of American Politics After 2020.” Thanks, Jonathan.
Coming up next, it might feel like we`re reliving the 70s these days. But in this case, it is not a bad thing when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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BRANDI CARLILE, SINGER-SONGWRITER: The first time she opened her mouth and sang summertime and I saw Herbie Hancock burst into tears. And everybody in the room catch their breath because she had decided to sing, really decided to sing you know. I knew she`d do it unimportant.
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RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, the return of an icon. As Mother Jones so eloquently puts it on unequivocally good things don`t tend to happen these days. Moments are so impervious to the horrors of modern day living, that they managed to break the sense that everything sucks.
But such an event arrived when Joni Mitchell herself appeared at the Newport Folk Festival this weekend for her first full set in over 20 years. That is right. The legendary singer songwriter Joni Mitchell surprised a very lucky audience over the weekend when her friend and fellow artists Brandi Carlile invited her up on stage.
This was Joni`s first public appearance since a life threatening brain aneurysm in 2015 left her unable to sing or play guitar. She says she taught herself to play again by watching videos of herself playing and only recently began singing with friends.
Seeing her progress, Carlisle urged her to return to the festival for the first time since 1969. While joining perform some of her biggest hits, like Both Sides Now and Big Yellow Taxi, but her guitar performance during Just Like This Train really stole the show. It has been a big, big year for the iconic artist.
Back in April at the Grammys, she was named Music Cares Person of the Year, a few months before that she was the Kennedy Center honoree. CBS News was with Mitchell after her new port performance and asked how she felt about her recent back to back honors.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALEL: How did that feel?
JONI MITCHELL, SINGER: Oh, very rewarding. You know, a lot of doors were shut to me like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They kept me out of that for a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re feeling the love?
MITCHELL: I`m feeling the love, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Feels good.
MITCHELL: It feels good.
CARLILE: It`s a beautiful thing to see. You`re honored in this way.
MITCHELL: I think coming having a brush with death like that kind of softens people towards me.
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RUHLE: Don`t always seem to go that you don`t know what you`ve got till it`s gone. Well, we are very glad that 50 years on Joni Mitchell is still moving audiences and feeling the love.
And on that absolutely beautiful note, I wish you all a good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us. I will see you at the end of tomorrow.