Updated
Summary
Jan. 6 Committee holds third hearing tomorrow. WAPO: 1/6 Committee focusing on Ginni Thomas emails. 1/6 Committee again asks GOP Rep. Loudermilk for interview about Jan. 5 tour. Republicans nominate election deniers for key positions. Americans struggling with rising inflation. 1/6 panel investigates fundraising trail.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: The programming note, I will join MSNBC Special Primetime coverage of the January 6 hearing tomorrow starting at 8 p.m. Eastern with the honorable Rachel Maddow presiding at 10 p.m. We will have our regularly scheduled edition of the last word right here where we will no doubt continue the in depth discussion of tomorrow`s public hearing of the January 6 committee and possibly other breaking news of the day.
That is tonight`s “LAST WORD”. THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, the eve of another critical committee hearing, disturbing new video of a man threatening Democratic leaders on January 6, who was spotted on a capitol tour with a Republican Congressman, the day before. And we`re following the money, the grift and where the hundreds of millions of donated dollars went or didn`t go in that sham election defense fund.
Plus, today`s historic rate hike from the Fed as inflation stays red hot with the move means for the midterms, all of it as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Wednesday night.
Good evening. Once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle, live from the nation`s capital where tomorrow, the January 6 Committee has its third public hearings starting at 1 p.m. Eastern and this time, investigators are expected to focus on then Vice President Mike Pence and the pressure campaign to get him to keep Joe Biden out of the White House. Committee aides say new evidence presented tomorrow will show how the efforts of his former boss Donald Trump led the riot — led to the riot and put Pence`s life in serious danger.
You`ll remember the surveillance video of security rushing Pence off the Senate floor as rioters chanted, “Hang Mike Pence.”
And ABC News has obtained new photos of the former vice president and his family in hiding after the mob broke into the Capitol. Tomorrow, we expect to hear from key Pence advisors, his former counsel Greg Jacob and retired Federal Judge Michael Luttig. There are reports the closed door testimony from Mark Short, Pence`s one time Chief of Staff will also be included.
Earlier tonight, Short talked about Trump`s actions that led to the riot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I`ve shared that I think that the President was poorly advised by a lot of the people that were around him at that time. I think ultimately the buck stops the President he has responsibility to listen to advice or discard advice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: As the House committee holds these hearings, the investigation continues. The Washington Post reporting on a new revelation about Ginni Thomas. She, of course, is the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. The paper says, the panel now has emails between Ginni Thomas herself and lawyer John Eastman, who wants clerked for Clarence Thomas and boo who played a very big part in Trump`s plot to stay in power.
The Committee is also intensifying its focus on Republican Congressman Barry Loudermilk. Let`s say his name again, Barry Loudermilk, do not forget it. This guy gave a tour of the COVID closed Capitol complex the day before the insurrection. Today, the committee sent the Georgia lawmaker a another letter asking him to come answer some questions about that tour.
The panel also released security footage that appears to show Loudermilk, again, himself hosting the tour as people are taking pictures of stairwells, security checkpoints, even the Capitol tunnel system, not what you would call a usual tourist attraction.
The 1/6 Committee says one man seen taking pictures is the very same guy heard making threats from behind the camera on January 6.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a fearless leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey buddy (inaudible). Check out my flag I made guys you see it? There you go. From a certain person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right, that`s for somebody — somebody special, somebody special. There`s no escape Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler, we`re coming for you. We`re coming in like white on rice for Pelosi, Nadler, Schumer, even you AOC, we`re coming to check you out and pull you out by your hairs. How about that Pelosi?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Again, not exactly your regular tourist. Late today, the Congressman responded to questions about that very video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know who that man was in the video?
REP. BARRY LOUDERMILK, (R) GEORGIA: I don`t know him. I`ve never met him before.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he was on that tour with you?
LOUDERMILK: I don`t know. I never saw the guy on the video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the video it clearly shows an individual taking photos of a security checkpoint in the basement that leads to the Capitol?
[23:05:04]
LOUDERMILK: What they were taking a picture of was I took the family, and of course the other folks who were with them, have two young kids that wanted to see the little trains that take congressmen. So I took them to show them where the trolley was, in the Rayburn tunnel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But why do you think pictures were being taken of a stairwell around security?
LOUDERMILK: If you go to that stairwell, there`s a golden eagle sconce that`s on the wall. That`s why he`s taking a picture off. I mean, there — these are folks who have never been to Washington, D.C. And they were excited.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So why not just speak to the committee and just —
LOUDERMILK: Because the committee has never called me and asked me anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They sent a letter out asking for your voluntary cooperation?
LOUDERMILK: To who? They never sent it to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Oh, let`s fact check that. For the record, the Committee says it did send the Congressman that very letter.
Meanwhile, Steve Bannon who has refused to talk to the Committee and who was indicted on contempt of Congress charges was back in court today. And he had this to say after his request to have his case dismissed was denied by federal judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: I look forward to having Nancy Pelosi and little Jamie Raskin and shifty shift in here at trial answering questions under my — under the — something my lawyers. The new House is going to have a real investigation for you get to the bottom of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Oh, really? Well, Bannon`s trial starts on July 18.
With that, let`s get smarter, with the help of our lead off panel tonight. Phil Rucker, Pulitzer Prize Winning Deputy National Editor at the Washington Post. Daniel Goldman, former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. He also served as general counsel for the House Intelligence Committee during the first Trump impeachment. He is now running for Congress. And Professor Melissa Murray of NYU Law School. She was a law clerk for Sonia Sotomayor on the federal bench before her nomination to the Supreme Court.
Guys, we`ve got a lot to cover. Buckle up. Phil, your colleagues at the Post have new reporting about Ginni Thomas, what more can you tell us about these Eastman emails?
PHILIP RUCKER, THE WASHINGTON POST WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, Steph, this is an important development in the January 6 investigation. The House Select Committee has recently obtained emails between Ginni Thomas, of course the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and John Eastman, who`s the conservative lawyer at the center of a lot of the January 6 intrigue because he was the one advising then President Trump of ways to try to overturn the election. These two were corresponding according to the new batch of documents that the committee obtained from Eastman in recent days.
My colleagues Jackie Alemany, Josh Dawsey, and Emma Brown have heard that the that Ginni Thomas, Johnny spin emails show that Thomas was even more involved in trying to subvert the vote and strategizing with the White House and Trump allies for ways to overturn the election and prevent Joe Biden from becoming president. Of course, we`ve previously reported that Ginni Thomas had been emailing with then White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows, and with some other key figures.
RUHLE: Daniel, tonight our friend Joyce Vance quoted that White House lawyer who suggested Eastman get a criminal lawyer, and she tweeted this, “Run, don`t walk to the Justice Department folks. The best deals go to the early cooperators.” Who else needs that legal advice?
DANIEL GOLDMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, Barry Loudermilk might need that legal advice. There are a number of people who are going to be in the crosshairs of the Department of Justice. You know, the one thing that just strikes me about —
RUHLE: Was Ginni Thomas one of them?
GOLDMAN: Certainly. I mean, I think if she was involved in this Eastman plot to coerce Mike Pence to overturn the election through illegitimate means, it`s probably worthy of an investigation. I — you would want to know, I don`t think we`re at the point where we would — anybody would charge Ginni Thomas for the crime yet, but she was clearly central to the effort to overturn the election. And then the question becomes, who else was she speaking to? What was she actually doing? We know she was speaking with some of the Arizona officials to try to get them not to certify the election on December 13, the day before Arizona did certify the Democratic electors. But when they also did submit the fake electors from the Republican Party.
So, I mean, what is clear is Ginni Thomas is at the — at the center of the White House`s efforts to come up with some rationale to overturn the election. But the thing that really strikes me and I would be interested to hear a little bit more of what Melissa has to say about Clarence Thomas and the impact on the Supreme Court.
But you have Clarence Thomas, basically saying or insinuating that he lives his life entirely separate from whatever his wife does yet he is ruling on cases that relate to matters involving his wife.
[23:10:09]
And it just doesn`t pass the laugh test to me that, you know, they operate in an entirely separate circles. And then you have Barry Loudermilk, who actually tried to say today that he didn`t get a letter addressed to him that he did not know or has not received a request for voluntary information from the January 6 committee that the entire world has seen. What have we come to, how stupid do these people think we are? That this — they actually try to get the — pull of these fast ones over us? It`s baffling to me.
RUHLE: Daniel, they don`t think we`re stupid. They think their own supporters are stupid. That`s how they get them to follow the big lie.
Melissa, it`s not just Ginni Thomas or Clarence Thomas, John Eastman knows Clarence Thomas, not through Ginni, he clerked for him. Is there any chance the Supreme Court is going to respond to this reporting?
MELISSA MURRAY, NYU LAW PROFESSOR: Well, again, this doesn`t look great for the court. And I want to just emphasize, we don`t know what Mrs. Thomas`s full involvement and all of this, as we don`t know if it reaches the level of criminal liability. And again, we don`t know how it meshed. if they are in mesh, the work of Justice Thomas and his wife actually is. But it doesn`t matter. Any lawyer will tell you the question of professional ethics isn`t a question of what actually happened. But what does it look like happen? What are the optics of this? And the optics of this are quite poor. I mean, it seems like every other day, we`re hearing about a new raft of text messages that Mrs. Thomas has sent in the effort to overturn the election. I mean, if this were a drinking game, I would be passed out on the floor every time I heard about one of Mrs. Thomas` text messages.
So this is not great for the justice. It`s not great for the court, he`s likely going to be hearing cases involving the January 6 committee. He`s already heard one case involving the January 6 committee and their efforts to get information and have information disclosed. And he was the lone dissenter in that case. With this added to it, none of this looks great. The appearance of impropriety is really, really stark here.
RUHLE: OK, well, I`m certainly glad you`re not participating in a drinking contest, because we need your insights.
Daniel, let`s go back to Loudermilk. Because you tweeted about that tour, saying the staircase being photographed, has no — nothing of interest for a tourist. And tonight, Congressman Mikie Sherrill, who was the first one to raise questions about those tours after the sixth, she agreed with the point you made watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKIE SHERRILL, (D) NEW JERSEY: What this video shows is yes, what I was talking about, in fact, quite a few members have come out. And former members as well saying this is not what tours look like. These are not places you take tours. That is not the only group that I saw. You know, I saw groups down there. And I think what we`ve asked the January 6 Committee to do is to understand what those people were doing in the Capitol Complex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Not the only group. And let`s remind our audience when Loudermilk was confronted with this months ago, weeks ago, he said, he didn`t take any — he didn`t lead any tours, and that Mikie Sherrill should be investigated. How significant is all this?
GOLDMAN: Well, it just continues to show the — two things. One is the significant involvement of Republican congressman, not only in the effort to overturn the election, but clearly in the lead up in some fashion or another to January 6, and it begs the question, what did they know was going to happen on January 6, when you see someone taking those very unusual photos or videos of random places that have or not tourist attractions in the Congress buildings, and then you hear what he says the next day, in chilling and visceral terms about how he is going to go in there and grab Pelosi and pull her out by the hairs.
And I guess a new meaning for coming after someone like white on rice. But it`s very scary. And it`s really defies all imagination, that this taking all these photos, and that there would have been no discussion with Congressman Loudermilk about what was to come the day after, when clearly this person was planning to not only to go to the rally, but to then march to the Capitol.
So we need to know what these Republican Congressmen knew prior to January 6, and yet what we`re getting is staunch obstruction from subpoenas and requests from lawfully authorized committees have their own body. So they are going — willing to take a risk to undermine their own authority to protect themselves from having to divulge the truth. And that goes a long way to saying what they must be hiding.
[23:15:05]
RUHLE: We`re going to be hearing all about Mike Pence tomorrow. Phil, at this point, what is Mike Pence, the former VP`s relationship with the former President?
RUCKER: Steph, it`s not a good relationship. That that`s clear. And I think the relationship could well become worse tomorrow with the public hearings and really the full airing on live television of the degree to which Pence betrayed Trump in Trump`s mind.
Remember, Trump was applying so much pressure on Pence and he had John Eastman and other players trying to help him do so to use his constitutional authority and overseeing that joint session of Congress on January 6, to throw out the certified election results for the Electoral College. From all of the states in the country. Pence reviewed what he could do and of course, determined that there was no lawful way to do what Trump wanted, and ended up defying Trump`s wishes by following his constitutional duty and overseeing those proceedings on January 6, then it created a permanent breach in their relationship.
They of course, continued to work together in the final couple of weeks of the administration. But they are not close these days. They don`t speak very much these days. They found themselves on opposing sides, and in a handful of really high profile primary races this year for the midterm elections. And by all accounts, Pence is preparing to run for president in 2024. And seemingly irrespective of whether Trump decides to run himself or not. So these two are clearly not on the same page anymore.
RUHLE: I`m not sure if they were ever closed or spoke often, even when they were in office.
Melissa, why don`t we hear from Pence himself? Did they not ask him, right? Tomorrow, we`re going to hear from advisers, from aides, from former lawyers. How about him?
MURRAY: So it`s a good question as to why the Committee didn`t subpoena Mike Pence. I imagine this is a question of judgment and discretion, as opposed to any legality that would prevent them from doing so. Again, there may be questions about seeming to be particularly partisan by asking the Vice President to come in and to provide testimony. It could also be the case that these individuals around the Vice President have as much information and therefore you avoid the appearance of partisanship while getting the information that you actually want.
Regardless, though, it is a good question. But we`re going to hear from a lot of people who were close to Mike Pence, who worked with Mike Pence as he tried to sort of deal with this particular threat and the entries that the President was asking him to make, including J. Michael Luttig, who is no flaming liberal. This is someone who`s a stalwart of the conservative legal movement. And he has been very clear that he was adamant that the Vice President could not take the steps that were being asked of him and that the Constitution wouldn`t permit it and the law wouldn`t permit it. And he`s been very forthright about that.
RUHLE: And for those of you at home who are wondering, are you available to watch the hearing tomorrow? Here`s a preview, Luttig told NBC News his message tomorrow will be, “America`s democracy was almost stolen from her.” I could be a blockbuster.
Phil Rucker, Daniel Goldman, Melissa Murray, thank you so much for starting us off this evening. We`re going to leave it there for now.
Coming up, far right members of the GOP are getting closer than ever, to taking control of the way votes are counted in critical swing states.
And later, as the Fed takes an aggressive step to try to keep more money in your pocket, we take a deeper dive into the disappearing donations from Americans duped into believing the big, big lie. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on really busy Wednesday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:23:35]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim Marchant wins the Republican primary. Marchant is a leader in the National Movement denying the Trump lost the 2020 election. He wins this Republican primary. He says, this is how — this is how Nevada voted in the Biden Trump race in 2020. He says had he been secretary of state he would have refused to certify this result. He`s now the Republican nominee for Secretary of State.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Nevada, now the latest swing state where Republicans have nominated an election denier for a position that would oversee elections. Similar far-right candidates have chalked up victories in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Let`s get scared and bring in an MSNBC, Political Contributor, my friend Matthew Dowd. He is also a former George W. Bush strategist and Founder of Country Over Party. And we welcome to the program for the first time ever Leigh McGowan, aka the internet`s very popular politics girl who I would like to point out, has taught me more about physics than all four years of Park Ridge High School.
Lee, let`s start with how worried are you about the political success of these election deniers? I mean, they could oversee elections.
LEIGH MCGOWAN, “POLITICSGIRL” PODCAST HOST: Yeah, they could. And what`s the danger of having an election denier oversee an election? It`s like, what`s the danger of having bought and paid for ref oversee a game, right? I mean, there`s no point in winning a race. If I run the race, yeah and I come in person I`m like yeah, I won, and then the person comes in behind me and they`re like, yeah, I won. And I`m like, I`m pretty sure it was me and we looked at the rash and the rash like dealt with him. That`s a problem. That`s a problem for democracy. And that`s a problem for the entire country. And that`s a problem for our faith in the system.
[23:25:16]
RUHLE: Matt, we don`t have to wait for 2024, a Republican commission in New Mexico is now refusing to certify primary results, based on voting machine conspiracy theories, boom, Trump all over again. How messy could this get?
MATTHEW DOWD, MSNBC POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this is it — what`s happening in Mexico is incredibly appointed in the danger of a virus that`s gotten out of control, which is the big lie. And so now you have people, or actual county commissioners in New Mexico, who are relying on these rumors to say, I don`t trust the voting results. So I`m not even going to certify the results of a Republican primary, which is what it was in a Red County in New Mexico. That`s a problem. And I`m going to second what was just said.
We escaped on the safety of our democracy by the skin of our teeth in 2020. And it was basically because the pillars were there that protected us. Secretary of States and governors and Attorney Generals around the country protected us. Some Republican but mostly Democrats, some Republican. The Republicans figured out they`re going to get rid of those pillars. They`re going to get rid of all those pillars and put in place people that can decide no matter how people vote, they`re going to decide what the election results are. Allah, Russia, or some other third world autocracy in this, and that`s my fear, they win in 2022. And they basically set up that no matter how the Democratic nominee does in 2024, they will not certify the results, and they will not give them the win in this race. And so we got through it barely in 2020 but if they`re in place, election deniers in place in all these states, Michigan, Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania, then it`s going to be very difficult to preserve our democracy.
RUHLE: All right, these victories are very scary, but they`re just primary victories. Is that actually what Democrats want to run against the extreme right, so they can scoop up the middle, Leigh?
MCGOWAN: I don`t know. I mean, listen, theoretically, that makes sense. You want to run against the people that you can brand is crazy. But I think we can`t deny the fact that we`re in a lot of danger that these people are even in the race to begin with. Ultimately, they`re using a playbook written by a cheater. And right now we`re sitting through as you guys did in the first segment, we`re sitting through the 1/6 hearings, right? And we`re saying not only did Donald Trump know that he lost the election, his people knew they told him, everyone was like, no, this didn`t happen. And he carried on with a lie anyway.
And then as Matt was just saying, we built an entire election campaign around people running on the big lie. So I think whether the Democrats want to run against these people or not, is sort of irrelevant. The fact that these guys are still in the mix that we`re still talking about this is the problem, because ultimately, the American experiment is just that an experiment, and experiments can fail. And these people are in there to break the system.
RUHLE: Matt, I saw you on our air earlier today with Cornell Belcher, and he said, we`ve got to find a way to get people to care about the midterms, or we could lose our democracy. Do you think the hearings are helping do that, right? These election deniers are winning these primaries? Before we saw the big lie all laid out and exposed in these hearings, is it going to be harder for them to continue to deny the election, when you`ve got Bill Barr himself and all sorts of Trump aides and lawyers calling BS?
DOWD: So elections are always about two things, they`re about motivating supporters, motivating people that completely believe in you and persuading a group of people that haven`t made up their mind. That`s what elections are fundamentally about a why you win or not, win or lose.
The country today is in thirds, is 1/3 who doesn`t care about democracy anymore. That date, it`s basically want whatever they want, they`re upset about the country`s change. It`s multicultural, they`re mad, that a third, there`s nothing you can do about it. That`s all the election deniers, it`s all the folks that believe in conspiracies, they`re gone.
The other third, people that watch you, people that tune into the hearings, people that are very concerned worry about our democracy, they`re engaged. The hearings, I think will help motivate them.
The real crucial step in this is that people in America, the third of an America who`s not paying a lot of attention, who worries about democracy simultaneously, worries about inflation, and worries about gas prices, that group of voters, the Democrats, if they want to win these elections has to bring them along in this and why is it that we`ve had a democracy for 240 years. And why is it is important? It`s important because women`s rights, it`s important because of people of colors rights. It`s important because of our freedoms. It`s important because of health care. It`s important because of all — it`s important because of a growing economy. You don`t have growing economies in autocratic ruled countries.
[23:30:09]
And so what you have to do is make this a battle about democracy and connect it for those third of the people that are disconnected and make them realize and lead them along, which is what leaders do, lead them along to why this is so important.
RUHLE: Matthew and Leigh, you are both our leaders this evening. Lucky for us, you`re staying for another segment after the break.
When we come back, same failure is not an option. The Fed Chief defends the biggest interest rate hike in decades, what the aggressive move means for your wallet, and the midterms, when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:35:26]
RUHLE: The Federal Reserve raised interest rates by three quarters of a percent today. It is the biggest rate hikes since 1994, all in an attempt to slow down inflation. And in an attempt to get gas prices under control, President Biden sent a letter to U.S. oil companies, urging them to ramp up production while criticizing their high profit margins.
Still with us, Matthew Dowd and Leigh McGowan. Matt, let`s look at this, because this rate hike is likely going to cause more pain before we see with relief on inflation. And let`s be honest, Biden`s letter on oil that`s not going to do anything. How much trouble is this Biden in?
DOWD: Well, I think Biden was already in problematic territory, because of his approval numbers are at 40% or 42%, which is always a difficult spot, not only for a midterm, but if they don`t improve for a reelection campaign and hurts the Democrats in this. That`s why — and you and I had this conversation before, that`s why Democrats — in order to win races, you have to argue about things in areas that you have a benefit on that one that you have a detriment on. And right now, Republicans have inflation and gas prices, and the state but how people view the economy today as a benefit. And that`s why Democrats in my view, going back to the previous segment, yes, you need to answer the questions on the economy. But they need to basically make this race about what people believe in them on, which is democracy, which is choice, which is guns, which is all those issues they care about and firmly believe in are worried about.
But if they sit there and are — trying to argue about the economy, they`re basically arguing on the Republicans turf. And right now the voters that matter most are people that both dislike Joe Biden and dislike Donald Trump. That`s the group of voters that Democrats have to win in order to win the election. Biden has two years to fix his approval numbers. Democrats have to win the elections in the next 150 days.
RUHLE: Leigh, most likely, if Build Back Better had passed, you`d be flooding the system again with more cash, and it would have worsened inflation. And while Build Back Better, has so many good elements to it, if inflation was worse, Democrats could really get blown out in November, is it a blessing in disguise that it didn`t go through?
MCGOWAN: I don`t think that it is a blessing in disguise. I think Build Back Better was one of the best pieces of legislation that Democrats have put together in years, it said these are our priorities. We believe in the country. It`s the things that most people want, right? It`s expansion of Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Universal Community College, universal pre- K, universal paid leave, expanded child and tax credits to get rid of childhood poverty, home care, elder care, making housing more affordable. These are all things that Americans want. And the Democrats said, this is our priority.
And to Matt`s point, if we`re going to run on things, we should run on things that Americans want. We shouldn`t be running on things that Republicans want us to run on. At the end of the day, we didn`t get Build Back Better, and we still have inflation. So it`s happening worldwide. This is a global problem, right? So we can blame the president, we can blame the Fed. But inflation is a worldwide issue. And I think I am not an economist, so I can`t speak to how it would or would not affect inflation. But I can speak to the American citizen because that`s what I am. I`m just a regular girl. And we`re exhausted, right? It`s been five years of just one thing into another that Trump years into the pandemic, into the 1/6, into now inflation. There`s just one thing after another, and I think Americans want to know that their government has got it. And we want to talk about things that are fixable right now, and a global problem might not be fixable in the next 151 days or whatever Matt said.
RUHLE: Matt, when you combine how inflation is weighing on Joe Biden, bad news for Biden, and how the hearings are bad news for Trump, does this end up in some perverse way, being an open lane for Mitch McConnell to kind of get what he wants no Trump and hurt Biden?
DOWD: Well, Mitch McConnell`s problem is that he has not done anything to put guardrails on his own party. And so what he`s done is if it was only Donald Trump out there saying crazy stuff and doing crazy things, and allowing a majority of the country to dislike him, that`s one thing. The problem is, he now has candidate after candidate after candidate that says as bizarre or worse things than Donald Trump that are running for the United States Senate or running for Congress or running for governor, running for Secretary of State. That`s the problem that Republicans have in this.
[23:40:13]
So when voters look at the choice between OK, I don`t agree with Democrats on all these issues, but the over there, there are a bunch of nutcases over there. There are a bunch of people that want to dismantle our democracy over there. That`s the choice that people have to may use. You can say you may disagree with me on student loan year, on — forgiving me, student loans, or you may not like inflation, but do you really want to turn the country over to One Flew Over the Cuckoo`s Nest? Is that what you really want to do?
RUHLE: Wow, we`re going to leave it there. Maybe, maybe, Matt Dowd, if we didn`t have the primary system that we did. Maybe this could be a moment for centrists to rise up. Matt Dowd, Leigh McGowan, leave your first visit to us here at THE 11TH HOUR, I hope you come back soon.
But coming up next, big money and the big guy. What we`ve learned from the January 6 committee about the former guys fundraising tactics, we will follow the money when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:45:47]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA WICK, JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE SR. INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL: The claims that the election was stolen were so successful. President Trump and his allies raise $250 million, nearly $100 million in the first week after the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren had called it The Big Ripoff, $250 million bucks raised using a lie that the election was stolen. And on this show, we like to follow the money. So let`s take a look at what the committee found. Between Election Day and January 6, the Trump campaign sent scores of emails to their supporters. In the emails were calls to donate to the so called Official Election Defense Fund to fight voter fraud. Even though the campaign knew those claims were absolutely false as the Committee laid out.
But here`s the even bigger thing, that fund didn`t even exist, and the former guy and his allies made a ton of money off of it. On November 9, 2020, Trump created the Saves America Pack. According to investigators, most of that money raised from the so-called election Defense Fund while it went there. That pack then made millions of dollars of contributions to pro-Trump organizations. And among those organizations 5 million bucks went to the company that ran Trump`s rally on the lefts. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The emails continued through January 6, even as President Trump spoke on the lefts, 30 minutes after the last fundraising email was sent, the Capitol was breached.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Then there`s Kimberly Guilfoyle, Don Jr`s fiancee. She spoke for less than three minutes on the sixth, the Washington Post reported she was paid 60,000 bucks for that little speech by the conservative nonprofit Turning Point action, and the sponsoring donor, the 72-year-old heiress of the Publix grocery store chain.
For more, let`s bring in the experts, Syracuse Law Professor David Cay Johnston, he also wrote The Big Cheat: How Donald Trump Fleeced America and Enriched Himself and His Family. David, you might need to write a whole other book on this alone, you have been covering this man since the Atlantic City casino days in the 80s. Does any of this surprise you? He`s always done it.
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: No, not at all. Donald is the third generation head of a fourth generation white collar crime family that dates back to the late 1800s. And they have been doing this all their lives. You know, when you lose a campaign, it`s impossible to raise money. Why would anybody give you money you lost? Donald figured out how to turn it into a quarter billion dollar and growing money machine.
RUHLE: So you`re pretty confident that Trump fundraising off the big lie is just a big fraud?
JOHNSTON: Oh, absolutely. And I think he`s vulnerable to a federal charge of mail and wire fraud. And you`ll hear a lot of people say, well, there`s a disclosure in the fine print that says we may use the money for something else. Well, I`ve talked to some federal prosecutors and Laurence Tribe, the Harvard constitutional scholar also agrees that he`s vulnerable to this. And the argument could be made by prosecutors that Trump knew that this was a scam. So he put in the well, we might spend the money on something else provision as a part of that scam.
Now, in addition to that, fraud, which is always in everywhere, a crime is also a civil offense, and every state has a civil fraud law. And so state attorneys general under consumer protection laws could also go after Trump for his fundraising deception.
RUHLE: Could but do you think they really well? Because here`s the thing, David, as a lifetime or multi-generational scammer, he knows exactly how to use these loopholes. So what makes one think they`re going to get him this time? Remember when he was in office, and we said, wow, when he`s not the president anymore, he is going to be in so much trouble. Wait until they see all the money, he made at the Trump hotel and so on and so forth but he`s sitting pretty down at Mar-a-Lago?
[23:50:06]
JOHNSTON: Well, you hit upon the core problem here which I assigned to feckless Democrats of the Manhattan grand jury was the case to bring Alvin Bragg the new attorney general shut it down, which caused his two top very experienced prosecutors to resign as a matter of principle.
Now the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, who`s a Democrat, has unfettered authority to take any criminal case away from a district attorney and turn it over to another prosecutor. She didn`t do it. Letitia James, the state attorney general who`s made a lot of noise about how she`s going after Trump in a civil case, won`t answer the question. Did you ask Governor Hochul to reassign this case to your office and give you criminal authority?
Karl Racine, the Attorney General of Washington D.C., he had a case over the tens of millions of dollars from the Trump inaugural where they went never explained. There`s a chapter in my book about the efforts to take money off the books illegally, criminal acts. Did he pursue that? No, he took a $750,000 fine and shut it down. So there`s only Fani Willis, the District Attorney in the county that overlays Atlanta pursuing her voter fraud case, left and perhaps Merrick Garland will authorize a case, there does seem to be an investigation going on by the Department of Justice. But yeah, I don`t understand why these Democrats talk a big game and then fold.
RUHLE: OK, then let`s go back because when he was president, Democrats would say they need to put new laws in place to prevent future presidents from abusing the norms the way Trump did. Have you seen any effort to create new laws, rules regulations, because last I checked, Trump could run for President tomorrow, and he still wouldn`t have to submit his taxes?
JOHNSTON: Right. There have been some bills introduced but nothing has happened. And in fact, the United States Supreme Court and alongside decisions we get to a whole another segment about have moved in the direction of basically legalizing bribery and criminal conduct by elected officials by narrowing and narrowing and narrowing the ability of prosecutors to bring cases against people who are elected to office and abuse their power for their own benefit.
RUHLE: David, this evening`s 11TH HOUR broadcast has been brought to you by the letter F, for feckless and fraud. David Cay Johnston, thank you for joining us tonight. Please come back soon.
And coming up, the very good news today for most scared and anxious parents and their young children around the country, with a special shout out to the one and only Dolly Parton when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:57:37]
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, keeping kids healthy. Superstar Dolly Parton is donating $1 million to Pediatric Infectious Disease Research at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. The legendary singer has made several gifts to the center over the years, most notably her $1 million donation for COVID vaccine research back in 2020.
In a statement today, Dolly said, “I love all children, no child should ever have to suffer. And I`m willing to do my part to try and keep as many of them as I can, as healthy and safe as possible.”
And then other very good news vaccines for kids under the age of five are finally in sight. An FDA advisory panel voted unanimously to recommend the agency authorize Moderna and Pfizer vaccines for young children. The New York Times reporting the FDA appears poised to authorize Moderna`s vaccine for children younger than six and Pfizer`s for those younger than five as soon as this Friday. States have already ordered millions of doses. So if all the regulator`s steps are cleared, the shots could be available as early as next week.
Kids under five are the only group in the country so far not eligible for vaccines. But not all parents are in agreement about whether or not to get their kids vaccinated.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do trust that, you know, the vaccines are effective overall in terms of keeping people out of the hospitalizations or presenting or preventing serious illness. So I will get my daughter who`s four vaccinated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would feel safer to hold off for at least another year, find out how, you know, how a new vaccine could possibly affect a kid in the long-term.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Our friend Dr. Vin Gupta explained earlier today why vaccinating children is so important.
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DR. VIN GUPTA, MSNBC MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: If your kid came down with the flu, the risk of ending up in the hospital with Omicron is six times higher. That is significant. That means your kid is requiring oxygen potentially having scarring in the lungs. They don`t recover quickly. This is what these vaccines prevent. So why not prevent it? We don`t even think twice when it comes to giving a kid a flu shot but that is part of the requirement many schools, so This to me is even more critical to keep your children out of the hospital.
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RUHLE: Very important information from Dr. Gupta there, it is all about keeping kids out of the hospital.
And on that very hopeful and helpful note I wish you a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us. I will see you all at the end tomorrow. Don`t forget to watch those hearings. They`re going to be hot.