Updated
Summary
NBC: Intel official resume their review of classified docs recovered from Mar-a-Lago. Trump lawyers in secret battle with DOJ to block 1/6 testimony. McCarthy & Biden make pitches ahead of midterms. Trump openly embraces QAnon on Truth Social. Trump sued by NY A.G. James for “staggering” fraud. Mississippi official pleads guilty in welfare scandal involving Brett Favre.
Transcript
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, as the former guy is back ranting about law enforcement, the feds are once again allowed to comb through the classified documents recovered from Mar-a-Lago, as the deadline looms for Team Trump to try to back up his wild claims.
Then the disturbing new ship, conspiracy theories are even more a part of MAGA mainstream, as Trump openly embraces their messaging. Plus, it has been a week dominated by major headlines, and we`re going to mix it up with a new team to break them all down, as the 11th Hour gets underway on this Friday night.
Good evening, once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. The former president ends his week in even deeper legal jeopardy as he tries to cling to political power and control of the GOP. Tonight, the investigation into the classified documents seized at his club and Florida is heating up. Intel officials tell NBC News they have reviewed — they have resumed their review of the top-secret records as they tried to figure out the potential damage to national security. This comes just days after appeals court judges gave the green light for the feds to access the evidence.
Remember, it has now been nearly seven weeks since the FBI search and Trump has yet to explain what he was doing with the documents in the first place. But his former personal lawyer suggests Trump`s motives may have something to do with the many investigations that are all unfolding around him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Obviously he took personal momento so in that way he can show off to people when he would go thereafter to maybe Saudi Arabia or he`d show hey, look, I got this letter from Putin. Or I got this from love letter. I mean, who gets love letters, right? From Kim Jong- un. I also believe he took the top-secret documents for the sole purpose of using it as a Get Out of Jail Free card. You want to indict me and my family, you want to incarcerate me, I`m going to turn these documents over to our adversaries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Meanwhile, there`s new reporting that Trump`s current lawyers who are cameras caught at a D.C. Federal Court yesterday are in a secret battle with the Justice Department. They reportedly are trying to prevent witnesses from testifying to a grand jury about his actions ahead of January 6.
Trump spent this evening holding a rally for North Carolina Republican Senate candidate Ted Budd. And earlier today, several Trump allies launched a new super PAC called MAGA Inc. Politico reports it will spend heavily to support Trump endorsed candidates in the midterms and beyond.
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy and President Joe Biden were also focused on messaging ahead of the November election. McCarthy began this morning laying out what he called his party`s, “Commitment to America.”
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): On that very first day that we`re sworn in, you`ll see that it all changes. We can secure our border. We could become energy independent, where your price of gas is lower. We can build an education system that has a parent`s Bill of Rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: In a rebuttal of sorts that followed, President Biden was focused on what he says is a current threat to American democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: MAGA Republicans in a few decades have refused to accept the results of the 2020 election, has become a litmus test in their party to play his loyalty to Donald Trump by buying into the big lie. You can`t let the integrity of our elections be undermined. Democracy can`t survive it cannot survive not a joke, can`t survive when one side believes there`s only two outcomes than an election is a win, or they were cheated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Tonight, the Biden`s hosted Trump`s favorite artists Elton John on the White House lawn. You might remember Trump tried but failed to get Elton to perform at his 2016 inauguration. But tonight, Sir Elton John gave another concert to a bipartisan audience in the Biden`s backyard.
(MUSIC)
RUHLE: And when the concert ended, the President and First Lady surprise the singer by presenting him with the National Humanities Medal for his work in fighting HIV/AIDS.
With that, let`s get smarter this evening with the help of our lead off a Friday night panel. Barb McQuade is here, veteran federal prosecutor and former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, Stuart Stevens joins us, a veteran of the Mitt Romney and George W. Bush Presidential campaigns. He`s now with the Lincoln Project, and my friend and colleague Jon Allen, Senior National Politics Reporter here at NBC News.
[23:05:13]
Barb, I got to go to you first, because Trump has had a lot of legal setbacks on a lot of fronts this week. And now the intel community is going back through those classified documents. I`m guessing that cannot be good for Trump, why else would he have been fighting against it so hard?
BARBARA MCQUADE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yeah, and Stephanie, also, I think one thing that`s really important is that this — the 11th Circuit also ruled that they may look at it for that intelligence risk assessment as well as criminal investigation, because those two tasks are so inextricably intertwined. And so, I imagine some of what they`re doing is trying to assess who had access to those documents. Why were there empty file folders, for example. And those kinds of things could point to criminal responsibility for Donald Trump.
I also think that Michael Cohen clip that you played there is really fascinating. You know, I don`t know whether his speculation is accurate. But there is this concept in government when it comes to classified documents known as Graymail. And that is this idea that a person who has access to classified information can threaten to disclose them if they are prosecuted criminally. And so, you know, that that argument that he was holding them as leverage in case he ever gotten into trouble. Michael Cohen is certainly speculating. But there is some merit to that strategy that we`ve seen occur in past cases.
RUHLE: That`s a scary speculation. Barb, we also saw headlines today sort of suggesting that the special master is testing Trump`s lawyers. What could be going on there?
MCQUADE: Yeah, I think that`s right, Stephanie. You know, we`ve heard Donald Trump say in the public, in the media, that the FBI planted evidence when they seize those documents at Mar-a-Lago that included classified documents. You know, of course, his defense has been changed. No, it was declassified. No, they weren`t there, all kinds of different defenses. But one of the things that Judge Dearie has done is he`s really pinning down the lawyers. The lawyers have never repeated these claims in court, because in court lies have consequences. Lawyers could face sanctions, disbarment, even criminal prosecution for making false statements in court.
And so, what Judge Dearie has said is, put your money where your mouth is, if you are claiming that there was evidence planted here than you need to say so and so he has given them a deadline of one week from today, to go through their full inventory of documents, and name the document that you think was planted there by the FBI. And it`ll be stunning to me if they actually name one, because this is where there are consequences for telling falsehoods.
RUHLE: Mr. Allen, you wrote about Tish James` case and how it`s different from the other investigations against Trump. You said this one is personal. How so? And how does that change things? Because one would guess that I don`t know, going through every inch of Mar-a-Lago seems kind of personal to?
JONATHAN ALLEN, NBC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: There were certainly some frustration about that on the Trump side the FBI going through everything at Mar-a-Lago. What`s different here is that Tish James is going straight at the heart of Donald Trump`s brand of his persona, and also straight in his family. If she`s able to win here, he will not be able to do business in New York, where he built this global brand, where he became the real estate baron, launched his television career to your fired moments and of course, launched his campaign for the presidency. And in addition to that, she`s named Ivanka Trump, Donald Jr. and Eric Trump and basically said they were parties to what she described as a fraud against insurers, lenders. And the taxman, which means the public.
RUHLE: Humiliating. Stuart, Trump was back at it tonight at this rally in North Carolina. I want to share a bit of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got more votes than any sitting president in the history of our country by far. And we may just have to do it again, right? We may have to do it again. We may have to do it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Stuart, I`m not even going to weight stuff for fact`s sake on that, like enough already. Joe Biden got the most votes, like this is absurd. But I do want to ask about this Super PAC that Trump allies just launched, is this about the midterms coming up? Or is it really about Trump in `24?
STUART STEVENS, THE LINCOLN PROJECT SENIOR ADVISER: Look, I think this is about a bunch of guys who are trying to make money. It was I think accurately called MAGA Inc. That`s really kind of putting it out there. I mean, there`s an industrial political complex in America and I think these guys see that they can make a bunch of money using the MAGA Inc. name. You know, by law, they`re not allowed to coordinate with Trump supposedly.
So, you know, I think politics is one of the weirdest businesses because every year despite all the economic factors, we spend more money on campaigns than the previous year. So, I think this is some guys backing up the truck to the mega store and seeing what they can get.
[23:10:06]
RUHLE: But how about Trump himself, he already has a big, big super PAC. He didn`t seem to be spending much of that on any of these Trump endorsed candidates, why doesn`t he pony up some dough?
STEVENS: Yeah, you know, from the very beginning, if you knew anything about campaigns, it was clear that the entire Trump campaign going back to 2015 was really a large criminal enterprise. And when they won, they took over the RNC. And the RNC became really a way that the Trump family was able to make money, launder money, and this continues. And you know, it`s one of the most shameful things and it`s being exposed. You have Bannon now as part of this grift, who`s now been indicted twice. There`s nobody to pardon him now. And it`s really an abuse of people give money to this campaign, and to Trump really thinking that they`re going to be doing good. And we see it that this money was exposed in the January 6 hearings, that what were they`re calling a recount fund or something, never went to that.
It`s just not surprising at all. If you know, the history of Donald Trump, it`s being exposed down was hanging in New York now. But it is that the Republican Party has gone along with this. And like an episode out of The Sopranos, they`ve allowed themselves to be taken over by this Trump corruption. And no one thought back and now that Trump corruption pretty much is the Republican Party.
RUHLE: Well, you do have a point there, but to anybody who`s still writing him a check, all the facts are out there, if you want to write a check to this, that`s kind of on you.
Barb, give us a bit of a civics lesson because tonight Trump is going after Tish James, saying that she should go after killers and drug dealers, gang members, instead of little old him. Can you explain to us that`s not even what the New York AG does?
MCQUADE: Yeah, you know, this is one of the defenses. He`s already laid out the defensive of, these were big banks, if they had just done their due diligence, then I couldn`t have been successful in defrauding them. You know, that`s victim blaming. And now this is — she should be using her resources to go after file crime and not after me, as you say, that is not the purview of the Attorney General. That is the purview of district attorneys throughout the state of New York. The Attorney General is there to safeguard the state of New York. And this is a fraud against the people of the state of New York to the tune of $250 million. That is a very significant fraud.
And when you think about who are the victims here? One, it is the lenders who gave more favorable terms to Donald Trump than he otherwise would have received, and who ultimately pays the cost there. All of the rest of us who do our banking and borrowing from these same banks. The tax authorities are also to blame — victims here. And who are the victims when it`s tax authorities, the taxpayers, the rest of us. And so, some people steal money with guns, and that`s what Donald Trump wants to focus on. But other people steal money with lies. And that`s what Donald Trump has allegedly done here and is absolutely the job of the Attorney General to discourage that ill- gotten game.
RUHLE: Jon Allen, for years and years, Trump said, I can`t show you my taxes because they`re under audit. Let`s pretend they are under audit, if they were, wouldn`t he be in a mountain of trouble? Only Tish James would discover this, the IRS wouldn`t?
ALLEN: Well, Tish James has referred this case to the IRS because I think she believes that if in fact he was under audit, he would have been in a heap of trouble, as you said. What we`ve seen from his taxes before, what we`ve seen, from statements of his wealth, and his assets, his properties, all suggests that he`s been — that he`s been, you know, I guess inflating the value of what he`s worth for a long time. And we`ve heard him make these claims publicly. Now, we`re seeing Tish James lay out evidence of these inflated claims which affect as Barbara was just saying, affect the lenders, the insurers and, and the tax collectors, which for the most part means us.
RUHLE: Man, so either the IRS is asleep at the wheel or Donald Trump is lying, or some combination of the two.
Stuart, Kevin McCarthy`s Commitment to America sounds an awful lot like Newt Gingrich`s Contract with America from the Clinton years. It just seemed like though, pretty late in the game for the GOP to come up with an agenda. We`ve got less than six weeks to go, what is this?
STEVENS: Yeah, today was a fascinating day in American politics, because you had both the Biden presidency and what`s really the Democratic campaign, and McCarthy out there. And campaigns are ultimately a battle of agenda who`s winning the agenda battle? And what this was, was basically an admission by Republicans that they weren`t running on anything. And we`re almost in October, you know, there has been this cultural war, you know, what I call the bathrooms and bedrooms campaign that someone like DeSantis is running on.
[23:15:10]
And they realize that they`re losing, and people are not — they don`t have any reason to vote for Republicans. So now, they roll this thing out, if you read it, it`s just kind of a bunch of bromides that you really could have said, anytime over the last, you know, 40 years in American politics, like fix the national debt. But the reality is, you know, when Republicans controlled government, they had a chance to do stuff, like, you know, the infrastructure bill, and they never got it done. I mean, if you had been a kid born the first week that they talked about the infrastructure bill, you would have been like in the first grade, but the time Democrats finally passed it.
So, I think that when Biden is out there talking about democracy, they are pushing an agenda that is resonating with people and the — whenever — in history, you give people who are anti-democratic, more power, they don`t become more democratic, they become more anti-democratic. And that`s really what`s at stake here. And I`m just so glad to see the President out there pushing it.
RUHLE: We should remind our audience, the GOP did try to roll out a plan months ago Rick Scott but in it, it involves raising taxes and taking a hatchet to Social Security and they quickly realize that`s not what voters are looking for.
Barb McQuade, Stuart Stevens, Jon Allen, thank you for starting us off on this Friday night.
When we come back, as pressure grows on the former president, he is pulling fringe and baseless conspiracy theories out of the shadows and right onto the main stage.
And later, it has been a another very eventful week. In a deeply divided nation. You will not want to miss our all-star panel digging into it all. The 11th Hour just getting underway on a Friday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:21:35]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are a nation that has lost its way. But we are not going to let this continue. Two years ago, we were a great nation. And we will soon be a great nation again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: It is hard not to notice the change and it is disturbing. In recent days Donald Trump has gone from just winking at QAnon to very openly embracing it. You saw it again today on Truth Social, and lately at his rallies tonight for the second time in just two weeks, Trump wrapped his rally in North Carolina with music that you heard right there that sounds an awful lot like the QAnon anthem playing in the background.
NBC News Tech Correspondent Jake Ward spent years studying what behavioral science says about the rise of Donald Trump and conspiracy theories. He wrote the book, “The LOOP: How Technology is Creating a World Without Choices and How to Fight Back.”
Jake, I`m so glad you`re here because so much is changing quickly. For quite some time, Trump danced around QAnon, kind of winked at it. And suddenly he is openly embracing the crazy why now?
JAKE WARD, NBC NEWS TECH CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Stephanie, that you`re right, winking is the relationship that he had with this conspiracy theory. But it`s also important to understand that he really relied on it for a strategy and support for a long time. I mean QAnon adherence, right, the people who believe in this really outrageous conspiracy theory that a cabal of powerful people is, you know, abusing children and running the world, and that somehow Donald Trump is going to save us all from that, you know, that belief system has been this extraordinary organizing engine that has served his purposes.
I mean, the guy has been retweeting QAnon, sympathizing accounts of since 2016 — 2017, when it first came online, you know, so he has really depended on it in many ways. It`s a machine for selling merchandise. It`s a machine for activating people in the midterms as he did in 2018. It`s a way in a weird way of sanitizing some of his most extreme backers, alright, people that say terrible racist, and anti-Semitic things, when their memes get picked up by QAnon people to get sanitized in this way that let them travel a little bit farther.
So, he`s always been able to rely on QAnon. But this is now a very, very open embrace of it. I have to assume it has something to do with wanting the most rock-solid base he can find right now. And there`s nobody more rock solid than people who believe in Q.
RUHLE: But Jake, this is not just about marketing and money making this isn`t the — they`re just become as you are. They`re not, you know, coastal elites. This is real America. The U.S. has labeled QAnon as a domestic terror threat. Can you talk about the real dangers here?
WARD: Well, this is the reason right that QAnon has been deep platformed off all of the major platforms because it is the kind of weird conspiracy theory and the adherence of it have really encouraged violence. There is this simmering undertone of threat to the QAnon community and so that`s right, it has been taken down. You know, it really is meant — it was in many ways fractured by his loss in 2020 because they kept believing over and over again that he would somehow rise and arrest Hillary Clinton and all this stuff was going to happen.
[23:25:05]
So, you are right, it is all of those things, these are — you know, and this is why I think when we see the rally today, and we see people throwing up the one finger, which is supposed to signify this where we go one, we go all belief that is sort of one of the logos, the mottos of the QAnon conspiracy theorists. You know, when we see that stuff happening out in the open, it`s pretty malevolent, it`s pretty scary to see. And so, it is sort of strange to imagine, you know, that this kind of stuff, that we`re seeing it on camera, right? That people are actually coming out in this stuff, where they have just been winking at each other online before.
I think it has to do with how desperate the former president is for a certain rock-solid base of support. And he seems to be willing to take the scrutiny that`s going to come with it, you know, that, like you say that this thing has been basically described as a terror organization. The fact that he`s openly talking about it now is very disturbing, and I think speaks to how desperate he is for support going into the midterms. And then going into 2024, Stephanie.
RUHLE: Jake, there are those in the group, some leaders who are Neo-Nazis, who are anti-immigrant, who are openly racist, but is that all of them? Or are there people who have been swept up into this movement and now just fed all these conspiracy theories?
WARD: Well, the people who study this stuff, and there is a fantastic new book out of Harvard called Meme Wars that really talks about the relationship very, very well. And I think one of the things that they articulated —
RUHLE: The author is on last night.
WARD: — so many academics have articulated, you know all about it, right? So, these folks are extraordinary at pointing out the ways in which social media as an ecosystem, has really facilitated the growth of this kind of thing. It was originally intended to bring together people with disparate ideas and, you know, create a little community and electoral community. Well, now it turns out to have facilitated this weird, specific thing in which people believe themselves to be investigating the truth. That`s what QAnon people think that they are doing their own research, doing their own reporting.
What they are, in fact, only doing is going and finding the greatest pockets of popularity for the most extreme ideas that they happen to believe in. It is really a sort of a mutation of what the internet was designed to do. And it has unfortunately created this monstrous, monstrous problem that we have right now. One that has gotten away from the social media companies. And now that the former president is fully embracing, Stephanie.
RUHLE: And they have sucked in a lot of lonely people, a lot of lost people and given them a community, but a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous one.
Jake, I am so grateful for your work. It is so important. And I`m glad you joined us tonight. Jacob Ward.
Coming up, what a week, a very bad week for the former guy and a worrisome one for the economy. We`re going to go deep into those stories and more, when the 11th Hour continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:32:23]
RUHLE: It has been a really busy week, Trump news, political polls, a wild week on the economy. And Brett Favre, of all people, caught up in a huge scandal.
So, let`s break it all down and maybe even shake it up a little with our Friday night panel, Nancy Giles is with us, Emmy winning, CBS Morning Contributor and Host of the Giles Files podcast. Actress and comedian Judy Gold, author of, “Yes, I Can Say That: When They Come for the Comedians, We Are All in Trouble.” Liz Plank is here, MSNBC Columnist and author of the book, “For the Love of Men.” And my dear friend Ron Insana, CNBC Senior Analyst.
I`m so glad you guys are here. We have a lot to cover. And you all know what I`m going to start with, Trump. This week, New York Attorney General Tish James going after Trump, filing a lawsuit against him, his family, his company, and I love how our own Michael Conway of NBC News puts it, Tish James hits Trump right in his ego. Judy, I turn to you first, we`ve been waiting for something to happen for a while.
JUDY GOLD, ACTRESS & COMEDIAN: Waiting.
RUHLE: How`d you feel?
GOLD: I — it was very exciting. Unfortunately, it was in the morning, so I couldn`t really drink and get on with my day.
RUHLE: It was 11:30.
GOLD: Yes.
RUHLE: Not 7:00.
GOLD: No, I didn`t have a drink. I did — I was — you know, I had just done a benefit earlier in the week. And she was there and she was speaking and she was so articulate and brilliant and just passionate. And I wanted to say, when? I can`t take anymore. And then they made the announcement, I couldn`t have been more thrilled. And I love the response. It means taking my kids into it. And they`re 40 years old, you know.
RUHLE: They`re not just 40-year-old kids who are inheriting his business. They`re officers in the company.
GOLD: Right.
RUHLE: Ivanka has negotiated that hotel in Washington, D.C., Eric and Don Jr. ran the business when he was in the White House. And it`s baloney to say, well, you`re bring the kids in.
NANCY GILES, CBS SUNDAY MORNING CONTRIBUTOR: Right. I hated that. And I agree with Judy, they`re not kids. They`re grownups and I have to say also, if Trump uses the word raid one more time, not referring to like insect spray. I`m going to lose it. Breonna Taylor, her home was raided. They gave Trump all of these notices, please, is it OK? Can we come in? Oh, here`s another — the lawyer was there. He was watching in real time from New York. There was no surprise he — it was so satisfying to see Tish James and also just from a black woman`s point of view, right —
(CROSSTALK)
RUHLE: That`s exactly it. Imagine he`s watching from New York and of all people who said they`re going to get Trump. They`re going to go after a black woman stood there and line by line letter by letter. You could tell neither she nor one person from her team has taken one minute of vacation for the last two and a half years.
[23:35:16]
GILES: They did have that haggard look.
GOLD: And then he told her a racist.
GILES: Oh, yeah, projection.
RON INSANA, CNBC SENIOR ANALYST: And what she did, which no one else has been able to do is pinpoint the extent to which there was likely fraud in the organization. And again, hitting him in the ego, effectively suggesting he`s not worth what he has always said he is worth, that is the hardest hit, that is the meanest cut. And it`s not even death by 1000 cuts, it was one sword swipe. But you know, as we covered him over the course of many decades, suspected, he`s probably not worth what he says he is.
LIZ PLANK, MSNBC COLUMNIST: We`ve known that for a while, but I actually think there`s a look, his approval rating is very low. And this will, in fact, hurt him.
RUHLE: But it`s not moving.
PLANK: That`s the thing, there`s still people who will support him no matter what. And in many ways, you know, he does his best work when there`s this villain that he can go up against, where he can be the hero, you know, they`re coming for my family, they`re coming for us, therefore, they`re coming for you. So, I worry that this might actually give him a merit.
INSANA: I think this is a little different. No, no, I think it`s a little different. He`s down at like 33% with respect to the approval rating he has and exposing him on multiple fronts simultaneously and settling him with financial obligations that he may not be able to handle.
PLANK: Sure, sure.
INSANA: Puts him in a situation that`s very much unlike 2015, 2016.
GOLD: (Inaudible) real estate.
GILES: (Inaudible) real estate for five years.
INSANA: Well, not yet. But potentially, yeah.
GILES: Hearing about these large amounts of money this overestimating, these already kind of inflated things. I don`t think that a lot of MAGA people can relate. And I don`t even like to call the MAGA people. That`s really — it`s their right to support who they want. But maybe hearing numbers like that, and seeing this guy`s been a cheat for so long will wake some people up and go wait a minute, maybe.
RUHLE: We`ve been saying that for a while.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: People at the inauguration, it inflates everything.
GILES: Oh my god, that`s right.
GOLD: Everything he said, the big — the bash on the smart. I mean, it`s ridiculous.
PLANK: And I got away with it, right? When the taxes were released. That`s what we — we know this already. And he said I did it right, right? And he got a lot of support for that people were saying, well, he`s smart.
GILES: Can he classify his taxes?
(CROSSTALK)
RUHLE: OK, we`re going to go there, because that wasn`t the only place, he was hit this week, right? Think about the Mar-a-Lago document case this week, right? His Judge Aileen Cannon, who was — you know, many say protecting him, she couldn`t. The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals said no, DOJ, you can (technical difficulty) special master that Trump chose has basically said put up or shut up with your lies. I want to know who`s advising Trump? Because after this, you think his lawyers would say you need to lock down and let us do this. He goes on TV for an hour, hour and a half.
INSANA: When you`re pulling your lawyers from OAN, you`re not exactly, you know, hiring the top — criminal lawyer even — yup.
GILES: He thinks he is the best one to judge how he should do things. And I say go for it.
GOLD: Yeah.
GILES: Yeah, it`s so much fun to watch.
INSANA: I mean, it`s always been true, though to, I mean, it`s —
GOLD: But the — you know, talk about the ego, the fact that these people were put in place by him, some of them.
GILES: Right.
GOLD: And they were like, sorry, you`re not above the rule of law.
GILES: That`s right.
GOLD: You know, and that to me, was the beautiful part. That he can see, oh, there`s something bigger than I am because he thinks he is the biggest.
GILES: But this isn`t saying well, that lead to anything.
RUHLE: That`s the question.
GILES: It`s so frustrating. I got a letter from the IRS. I owe them an extra $1,400. And part of me wants to scrawl and lips, how about Trump. You know, why I am paying that?
INSANA: I wouldn`t recommend that.
GILES: I know. But it`s for most regular people who try to follow the rules and don`t make a right turn on red. Like, what are we doing?
RUHLE: Yeah, if he wasn`t president, let`s be clear, he would have gotten away with all of this.
I want to talk about something else that has to do with regular people, and it`s the economy. Because this week, think about what we got. The Fed came out with an announcement they`re raising interest rates. Why? Because inflation is remaining really hot. In the beginning, it was — it`s the war, it`s the pandemic, prices are so high. They`re going to raise rates again before the end of the year. And the scariest thing is that Jay Powell gave us the hint, get ready, unemployment may go up. So, I turn to you first, Ron, how concerned should we be, life`s getting a lot more expensive?
INSANA: I think inflation is picked. I`m in the camp that thinks that this in the next couple of months, we`re going to see inflation fall extremely hard, gasoline. After one day we`re booked up for a second is back on the downside. It`s falling towards $3 a gallon. Food prices are beginning to roll over, retailers have huge inventories of unsold goods. I think we`re moving to a place where the Feds going to make a mistake and drive us into an unnecessary recession. I`m much more worried about recession than I am about inflation at this point.
RUHLE: OK, well then if we do head to a recession, remember the last two years, this has been employees have had a lot more say.
[23:40:03]
GILES: Right.
RUHLE: We have said, we want to work from home, we`re looking for new benefits and companies have started to work with us. If we slide into a recession, I know you, Liz, talk so much about benefits, what people deserve work life balance, that`s going to go right by the wayside if suddenly big layoffs are coming?
PLANK: Yeah, and Gen Z, I`m looking at them and how their relationship with work is completely changing. And again, it`s hard to even manage Gen Z people, because they, you know, in many ways, know what they deserve, and they`re not willing to take less, and so they`re leaving, right. And so, it`s going to be interesting to see how we fill that gap.
RUHLE: But here`s the thing, you can only leave, if you can pay the rent, if you have a couch to sleep on. So, this idea that especially a lot of young people who are saying, I deserve more, I want something else. I`ve never had — I`ve never had the luxury of being able to do that, I always had to pay the rent.
GILES: Of course, all of — I mean, most of us that are older and putting you to a lesser extent in no way, we have to. I don`t mean, it makes us all into old farts. But no, it`s a whole different mindset.
INSANA: You can put me right there.
GILES: See, what I want to know, this is the part about the economy that I never got, how much of this do you think is driven by greed? Because it really does feel like with the oil industry and with these mega billionaires who don`t even want to bargain with Gen Z who are trying to get, you know, unions and stuff going like, what`s up with that?
INSANA: OK. So, on the price gouging stuff, we hear this every time oil goes up, right? But no one says anything when oil crashes, as it did in 2020. And you saw a minus $37 per barrel price for oil. Oil companies lost billions of dollars. Nobody rushes to their aid when that happens, right?
GILES: Because they need so many billions so often, maybe.
INSANA: On and off, over time.
GILES: OK.
INSANA: It`s a global commodity priced in dollars and it really depends on supply and demand. So yes, in certain instances, in a variety of industries, there`s price gouging, price fixing, these things happen from time to time. This is a fundamental — yes, and it`s fundamentally a different experience that we`re going through right now. This is a global phenomenon. This — there have been shortages, disruptions and other types of things that make that argument, I think, a little less salient today than it might have been during other periods.
RUHLE: But it`s a reminder right now if things are getting tough, save where you can. We`re going to take a quick break. Nancy, Judy, Liz, Ron, staying with us.
When we come back, we`re talking about somebody else, Lindsey Graham. Sounds like they`re really excited. He`s putting Republicans again with this nationwide abortion ban. My question is, why? We`re going to break down what is going on with the GOP when the 11th Hour continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:47:11]
RUHLE: We`re going to get to Lindsey Graham in a moment. But first, a scandal, a cultural one, a celebrity one and economic one, Brett Favre, NFL Hall of Famer, found himself in the middle of a big scandal all by his own doing. As we have been reporting, Mississippi, the poorest state in the nation used welfare money to pay Favre over a million dollars for speeches that he never even gave. We should note he has repaid the fees. But this scandal is not over.
We`re back with our panel, Nancy Giles, Judy Gold, Liz Plank and Ron Insana. Liz, to you first, when you think about, here`s this giant famous athlete who has a serious radio show that I haven`t heard from serious, has all sorts of endorsements that may be backing off, but we haven`t heard from the NFL.
PLANK: Yeah.
RUHLE: No big deal, pay me a million dollars.
PLANK: Right.
RUHLE: I don`t even need to give the speeches, money meant for the poorest people in the poorest state.
PLANK: Yes. And then when Colin Kaepernick yields and then NFL then he loses a lot of his sponsorships. So, it`s very — and a lot of that that money in Mississippi would have gone to black and brown communities who really, really need it. And so, we need that same kind of — I mean, I don`t want people to get canceled. I think there should be a backlash and proper, you know, punishment for what he`s done so that we can have faith in, you know, in our institution.
INSANA: Well, if he diverted with the help of the former governor and other officials $5 million to build a volleyball stadium that`s jail time. I mean, if a person of color robs a 7/11, there in forever.
GOLD: Or passes that $20 bill.
INSANA: Yeah, that`s done.
GILES: More has a tail light.
INSANA: Yeah, I mean, $5 million to go to poor people, and he`s worth $100 million reportedly.
RUHLE: $100 million.
GILES: This is where — I`m sorry, Judy. This is where, again, I go back to greed, if you want your alma mater to have pull out your checkbook, what are you stealing from people and from? And from the poorest state in the country, it`s pathetic.
GOLD: I think he and Eric Trump should open a business.
PLANK: They do great together.
GOLD: They`d be great, right? Taking from kids for kids with cancer.
RUHLE: Trump`s can`t for 10 years (inaudible) is not allowed to sit on charity in New York, can`t do it with Trump.
GILES: It`s only 10 years, it should be forever.
INSANA: Yeah, what happens after 10 years and given your lesson like —
GILES: I know.
RUHLE: But is — will there be increased pressure for companies for the NFL to stand up and say something, right? The NFL talks about a whole lot of things all the time, but not this one, yeah?
INSANA: It`s not been terribly encouraging of late no matter who you`re talking about. I mean, Jameis Winston, when he was at Florida State, was accused of sexually abusing two girls while he was there. The investigation was put off. If that`s my wife, I`m not here.
RUHLE: You know, if only it was Brett Favre, I will ask him to come on TV every day. Since the story was reported —
INSANA: Stop talking about me.
RUHLE: He`s welcome to come on.
(CROSSTALK)
[23:50:02]
INSANA: Yeah. Look, with a wide variety of specific circumstances they have not handled them well. And worst of all, Colin Kaepernick of all the things, that`s a tragedy.
GILES: I mean, he consulted with veterans about the proper way to handle himself and it was —
INSANA: Well, veterans supported him in doing it.
GILES: Yeah, I mean, and like he can`t even get a try out, a real try out. It`s such a travesty.
GOLD: It`s called the first amendment, which they abused.
GILES: Right.
GOLD: They abused with their —
GILES: Sometimes, it works sometimes but not in his case, it`s — so will he be punished? What do we think?
RUHLE: We`ll see.
INSANA: I think it`s a legal question. I mean, NFL has nothing to do with him at this point. He`s a retired player. So, they
(CROSSTALK)
RUHLE: All right. Well, I know all of you have something to say about Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham, who is more than doubling down, he is going further pushing a federal, ban a national ban on abortion, I want you to first help me understand why would he even be doing this, right? They overturn Roe v. Wade. So, for that portion of their base who wanted that you got what you want. Why do this? Republicans don`t even support it across the board. He`s dividing Republicans. It`s not like you can get white evangelical voters to vote for you twice. And now you`re knocking out a ton of other potential voters.
GOLD: And he`s ignoring what happened in Kansas?
GILES: Yes.
GOLD: You know, it`s like come on people.
PLANK: And in so many other swing states.
GOLD: Oh, I know and the fact that he`s telling women what to do with their bodies. He`s never seen a vagina. Never seen a naked woman. And he is telling me —
(CROSSTALK)
RUHLE: We don`t know that for sure.
(CROSSTALK)
INSANA: Judy, we will refer that as an unconfirmed report.
GOLD: OK. Unconfirmed.
PLANK: Someone need to find out.
GOLD: I`m going to speculate that —
GILES: According to Judy Gold.
INSANA: If I could flip that, though.
GOLD: Yeah.
INSANA: As a married man who`s got a wife and two daughters. I don`t want someone who`s not married without a family, dictating family policy.
GILES: Well, and also even though I know that there are women who support the ban on abortion and support the revocation of Roe v. Wade, it really makes me uncomfortable that a guy, that a man. Even in the in the press conference, there he is in front with these two meek women standing behind like —
INSANA: And Marco Rubio, don`t forget.
GILES: Oh my god, do they want have babies, do they?
GOLD: No, they`re men, who need Viagra, they don`t operate correctly.
RUHLE: But what`s strange is this has never been a core issue for Lindsey Graham. That`s why it seems strange to me, it will be one thing — it`d be one thing if this was something that came from a more Mike Pence type of politician. I would expect that, it`s surprising to me that it`s Lindsey Graham out there.
PLANK: The way he`s doing it, I think it was I thought about it for a lot a long time. I think a lot about Lindsey Graham.
GOLD: Why?
GILES: Why?
PLANK: Because trying to understand him, I really — and the 15th week is that there is broad support when it comes to abortion. A lot of Americans will say after 15 weeks, I started to become uncomfortable. And so, he`s using that as a way to kind of have the position that`s not so radical that a lot of Americans can get behind. But at the same time, this is the part that really gets me is that he`s claiming that he`s pro-life, right? He`s claiming that he`s so anti-abortion, and this is why he`s doing this. After 15 weeks, that`s 95% of abortions will still continue to happen. There`s only 5% of abortions that happen after that point. And so, he`s not — I mean (technical difficulty) great I think you`re pro-choice actually, like you`re — you sound pretty pro-choice to me.
GOLD: Right.
PLANK: And so, it`s inconsistent. But I think that he`s hoping that a lot of people don`t pay that much attention. And maybe they see the 15th week and they kind of get on board with him but obviously Republicans are worried about because it`s just getting more attention to the abortion issue which, well, most Americans don`t want to talk about, they don`t want that right to be taken away.
GILES: In the end, I think it`s more attention to Lindsey Graham because he really, he`s like Trump in that way. They crave attention, they want to be relevant, however that whatever shape that takes, so —
INSANA: But even though him that`s a strange route to go down unless you were purposely trying to throw the election in the midterm because that`s something that — if you look at the voter registration rolls and states where the restrictions are greatest Kansas, you know, Missouri and host of others, women and young people are out registering men by something like a five to one margin so, it`s a backfiring.
RUHLE: In bizarre world, do you think that the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the silver lining will be a shocking win for Democrats? We never thought was coming.
GOLD: Absolutely. I have never seen people more motivated and more — and I think people realize my vote counts. I have a say in this. I am going to make a difference. And this is — this is pissing off Republican women too.
GILES: It is, it is. It`s across the board. It`s an invasion of, well, it`s a women`s health issue also.
[23:55:00]
GOLD: Right so many women get their young girls, get their health care.
GILES: It`s ridiculous.
GOLD: I have to say, you`re — you know, you`re going to ban, what`s it called? Anti —
PLANK: Contraception.
GOLD: Yes, contraception, menopause sorry. You`re going to ban contraception. I happened to be a lesbian, OK, shocking. And I have been — I`ve been on — but I`ve been contraception for health purposes. Like you don`t —
GILES: And guess what, it`s no one`s business. Can`t he just sit between a woman and her doctor, period.
INSANA: Well, and her partner.
RUHLE: All right, we`re going to talk about really private business after this but for now we`re going to have to do that off air because we`re at a time.
GILES: Oh, no.
RUHLE: Nancy Giles, Judy Gold, Liz Plank, and Ron Insana, thank you all.
And on that note, I wish you all a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, Judy claims watch the show all the time. But right here, one would say. Thanks for staying up late with us. I will see you on Monday night.