Updated
Summary
The Trump-appointed judge in the appropriately titled case of Donald J. Trump versus United States of America once again gave Donald Trump just about everything he is asking for in court, in an order appointing a so- called “special master” to examine all of the evidence seized by the FBI from Donald Trump`s Florida residence. Judge Cannon sides with Trump on classified documents and rejects premise that the documents are classified. Marco Rubio is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and he`s now defending Donald Trump`s illegal possession of illegal documents at his Florida home. Republican Governor Ron DeSantis`s decided to fly dozens of Spanish-speaking migrants from South America to Martha`s Vineyard, a week after Labor Day when there are no jobs there, and dropped them there after lying to them that they were being sent there to get jobs.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Alex.
We have our special master team ready to go here, to begin the hour. They have been studying this order by the judge, which really is, I believe, it actually contains the line by a Trump judge that is the Trumpiest thing a Trump judge has ever said. I will — I will be identifying that line.
ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC HOST, “ALEX WAGNER TONIGHT”: I want to know what that line is, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: No, no, no —
WAGNER: There are a lot of very Trumpy lines there that could be emblazoned on the back of a MAGA mug.
O`DONNELL: Alex, you`re just going to have to watch the TV show to get that line. It`s about four minutes away. It`s going to be here.
WAGNER: I`m waiting. I`ll be here for it.
O`DONNELL: For four minutes, you hear it.
Thank you, Alex.
Well, the Trump-appointed judge in the appropriately titled case of Donald J. Trump versus United States of America once again gave Donald Trump just about everything he is asking for in court, in an order appointing a so- called “special master” to examine all of the evidence seized by the FBI from Donald Trump`s Florida residence.
The one good thing in the judge`s ruling is naming Raymond Dearie as the special master in the case. He was the only possible special master who was acceptable to both sides and if Raymond Dearie is — actually does carry out his duties as the special master, he is by all accounts an honorable federal judge who would handle his responsibilities in this case honorably and professionally and as expeditiously and responsibly as possible.
He is the only good thing in this judges ruling which, of course, should not even include the order of a special master. The judge refused the Justice Department`s request to withhold 100 classified documents from examination by the special master, but Judge Aileen Mercedes Cannon did modify her previous order to clarify that federal investigators can use all of the evidence that they seized including the classified documents in several ways in their ongoing criminal investigation.
Once again, Judge Cannon made a new utterly shocking statement in her new order. The judge actually said in writing that she does not believe that the hundred documents clearly marked as classified and identified by the Department of Justice as classified documents actually are classified documents. The judge offered absolutely no evidentiary basis for why she does not believe the documents are classified. Judge Cannon wrote that she is not, quote, prepared to adopt hastily that all of the approximately documents isolated by the government and papers physically attached to them are classified government records.
That is the single most Trumpian thing a Trump judge has ever said or written. When Donald Trump said I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn`t lose any voters, he did not say that he would not get arrested. He did not say that a New York judge would throw out the case. He said he wouldn`t lose voters and he said that before he became president of the United States.
And now, six years later, the tragic reality of American jurisprudence is that Donald Trump can get caught with documents marked classified and a federal judge who he appointed will say, how do we know they`re classified? There is no more vivid demonstration of the poison that Donald Trump has injected into the federal judiciary and a federal judge saying, I have no way of knowing the documents seized by the FBI with a search warrant that are marked classified and have been identified by the FBI and the Justice Department as classified actually are classified.
[21:05:05]
That is the Alice in Wonderland that exists in that judge`s courtroom. That is Flat Earth Society thinking in the federal judiciary, thanks to Donald Trump.
Donald Trump and his lawyers have presented absolutely no evidence whatsoever, not even the suggestion of evidence not the hint of evidence to Judge Cannon. That those documents are not classified, she just made that up. The Department of Justice has presented full and convincing evidence that those documents are classified, including an under oath affidavit by the FBI`s assistant director for the counter-intelligence division of the FBI.
At the same time, Judge Cannon says there is no reason for anyone to be worried about who has seen those classified documents in the year and a half that Donald Trump had them in his possession. No reason to worry about who Donald Trump might have shown those documents to or who might have obtained copies of those documents without Donald Trump even knowing. Absolutely nothing to worry about in a year and a half of those documents being completely unprotected.
Judge Cannon says she does not see, quote, any identifiable emergency or imminent disclosure of classified information arising from plaintiffs allegedly unlawful retention of the seized property. That is precisely the objective of the criminal investigation and of the intelligence community review of the damage done by Donald Trump in this case.
And if the government already knows about some very serious damage that could have been done by Donald Trump`s handling and mishandling of those documents, that may be a classified finding right now that they cannot disclose. Judge Cannon is in effect saying she doesn`t understand what`s so important about keeping classified documents classified. What`s the big deal?
And so, she is ordering a special master to examine all of the classified documents and her order allows Donald Trump`s lawyers, none of whom have security clearances, none of whom have ever seen a classified document, to examine all of the classified documents.
Judge Cannon admits that her previous order barring use of the seized evidence in the justice department`s criminal investigation went too far. In her new order she says that further elaboration is warranted. That`s the phrase she used and so she now says she only wants to prevent the Justice Department from quote for example presenting the seized materials to a grand jury and using the content of the documents to conduct witness interviews as part of a criminal investigation. The order does not restrict the government from conducting investigations or bringing charges based on anything other than the actual content of the seized materials from questioning witnesses and obtaining other information about the movement and storage of seized materials including documents marked as classified without discussion of their contents.
Judge Cannon says the Justice Department is allowed to brief congressional leaders with intelligence oversight responsibility on the seized materials and that the FBI can now be involved in the intelligence community`s security assessment.
Judge Cannon now says, quote, to the extent that such intelligence review becomes truly and necessarily inseparable from criminal investigative efforts concerning the content of the seized material, the order does not enjoin the government from proceeding with its security assessments.
The judge named as expected senior federal judge Raymond Dearie as the special master because he was the only person who was acceptable to both sides in the case. She gave Judge Dearie a deadline of November 30th to complete his work that has never been done before in the history of American jurisprudence, nothing like it, work that a Trump appointed federal judge is ordering only because she believes that Donald Trump alone among the 330 million of us deserves special treatment, not just a special master, but special treatment in federal court.
[22:10:00]
Leading off our discussions tonight is Neal Katyal, former acting U.S. solicitor general.
Also with us, Andrew Weissmann, former FBI general counsel and former chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of New York. He is professor of practice at NYU Law School. They are both MSNBC legal analysts.
And also with us is Bradley Moss, a national security attorney with experience in classified documents cases.
Andrew Weissmann, let me begin with you. And I`m going to give each of you just an open mic to give us whatever you`re thinking about what you have read tonight from this judge.
ANDREW WEISSMANN, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Lawrence, there`s so much to choose from uh and I`m certainly going to leave a lot on the table for Neal and Brad because there`s so many outrageous and stupid frankly pieces of this decision. I mean, it`s remarkable because you never thought that something worse than her last decision and this actually topped it.
But let me focus on something I thought was particularly important and then also go to something that`s maybe a positive. So one of the things that I thought was particularly egregious is that she comes right out and says at the end of her decision that she`s giving extra weight to Trump because he was the president. She just comes right out and says it.
That if anyone wants to see the end of the rule of law, it is just read the decision. You know, John Locke famously said where law ends, tyranny begins. You read this decision and what she said, and she is admitting that the position that the person held is going to carry extra weight in terms of how he`s treated in court. That is a violation of her oath as a judge, to treat everyone the same.
I found that just so shocking and I`ll leave to Neal and to Brad all sorts of other things.
But now we turn to something positive which you mentioned, which is because she is also I think frankly a chicken, she could be doing all of this review herself, but she`s decided to have a special master. Well, that is a big plus for the department because Raymond Dearie is a real step up, I mean, in complete different league than this judge.
And so, by her subcontracting out her own duties, it actually and I think she`s thinking, you know, let him be the fall guy, let him have to say Donald Trump is wrong because then her hands are somewhat clean. I think that is what`s going on here. I mean, it`s really disgraceful that that`s the way she`s approaching her job.
But from the Department of Justice`s point of view, I think that there`s a lot of hope that they should have given Judge Dearie`s track record and his common sense and integrity.
O`DONNELL: Neal Katyal, go.
NEAL KATYAL, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: So, Lawrence, you`ve heard of Oliver Wendell Holmes, John Marshall, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, this is like the polar opposite of them.
And, you know, we used to say in the solicitor general`s office that some appeals write themselves. This is one and it is a terrible, terrible abuse of our legal system for reasons that Andrew just mentioned a moment ago. It was also entirely unnecessary, the Justice Department gave this judge an opportunity to walk back her not so early opinion — earlier opinion and instead she chose to dig her heals him.
I mean, Bill Barr called this request for a special master a crock of S- word. And while I thought that was kind of mean to crocks, this opinion is like a crock of the crock of the S word. I mean, the Justice Department gave her a lifeline and she just blew it off.
And I can tell you, this decision should be reversed within a week, and the Justice Department gave her that sensible proposal of saying, look, there`s a hundred documents. He has no — Trump has no plausible claim to ownership of these documents here, obviously government documents, at least separate that out. She has no real argument against that. So if on the solicitor general, what I do is go to the 11th circuit tonight or tomorrow morning, seek an emergency stay of this decision, and you know, I was always reluctant to seek emergency stays when I was at the Justice Department, but in rare circumstances you would, this is that circumstance.
So you stay this ruling about the hundred or so documents, you let the criminal investigation proceed, and then you appeal the entire ball of wax which is crazy, just slightly less crazy than the other parts of her decision.
Let me just isolate one reason why I think that strategy makes sense. You know, there`s a whole thing in the law about irreparable harm, which is, you know, if this investigation goes forward, who`s harmed, and the Justice Department provided this affidavit that said, judge, your special master ruling is going to endanger national security, and she says in her ruling tonight, well, I just don`t see that based on I guess her extensive national security experience.
[22:15:10]
Let me just be a little concrete way explain how this matters because before I was acting the solicitor general, I was national security advisor at the Justice Department. Some of these documents are marked with HCS, that`s human source material, and you know, what that is, is like someone who is a spy who maybe is working in a foreign government for the spying for us something like that they`re in the field.
Now, if you`re that person in the field right now, you have no idea whether those documents that Trump brought to his golf club are, you know, are about you and who got to see those documents. If you`re that person, you`ve got to be freaking out right now.
Now, what kind of intelligence do you think we`re going to be getting from that person in the interim while we wait for the special master to reach his decision, and when we want to reassure everyone else in the field that, you know, look these documents aren`t about you. There about something else, and you know, you don`t have to worry.
Wouldn`t you want that assessment to happen right now? She just blows it off. Easy appeal, easy stay, tomorrow.
O`DONNELL: Bradley Moss, you`ve served as a defense — criminal defense attorney in classified documents cases. The part of the order that that is curious to me is when the judge orders that the special master will show all of the classified documents to Donald Trump`s lawyers, none of them have ever seen a classified document, none of them have any security clearances. How is that done in that situation?
BRADLEY MOSS, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: Yes, so they`re going to have to get security pledges, they`re going to have to go through the process which can be expedited to be fair. They`ll have to fill out the standard form 86. It`ll get a quick run through assuming no immediate red flags show up. They`ll review and inspect the documents in a secure facility in the presence of the special master. They won`t be able to take anything out. Any notes they take will have to be reviewed for declassification, and if they`re classified, they`ll be in the custody of government or the special master.
But here`s the part that makes no sense to me when I`m reading this special master order. What`s the special master going to do with these documents with classification marks? He`s going to look at him he`s going to say, okay, I see top secret SCI with HCS as Neal said, what do you want me to do with that? That`s proper classification marking.
all Donald Trump can theoretically say is, well, I verbally declassified them. And let`s assume for the moment he gets Kash Patel and whoever to submit a sworn declaration saying, yes, I stood there while he declassified them verbally. So what? The relevant statutes don`t care. Espionage Act doesn`t care. The two obstruction provisions do not care if the documents were still classified. They still had classification markings. He jerked DOJ around as no one none other than Bill Barr said, and he didn`t turn it over and made his lawyers lied to the FBI.
Whether or not he verbally or in his mind while playing golf, declassified these records, is ultimately going to be irrelevant, and I don`t know if a special master supposed to say other than, these classification markings are valid, end of discussion.
O`DONNELL: Andrew Weissmann, let`s go to a hypothetical possibility with Raymond Dearie. And that is, assuming there is no appeal process that got in the way, that he got to work on this right away, he looks at the 100 classified documents in a day, and immediately declares this should go to the government, that Donald Trump has absolutely no possessory interest in them and no interest in them whatsoever.
That is how I have ruled. I am not going to show them to the plaintiffs counsel.
Can he do that and can he do that quickly?
WEISSMANN: I think the part about not showing it to plaintiffs counsel is where he could get procedurally in trouble. And I don`t see him doing that. But what he can do is act very, very quickly.
But to Brad`s point is what he can do is say, okay, I see these documents who will turn to the Trump team in a way that Judge Cannon has not because he is an experienced federal judge and he`ll say, what specifically is your argument.
You can argue these are declassified. That`s irrelevant. These were called for by a search warrant. They were found pursuant to a search warrant. What is your argument? And force them to actually have to say something.
If you noted in the Trump`s own papers, he refused to even say he declassified these and as Brad points out, it would be irrelevant even if he did. But I think Dearie can sort of create a really good record by really forcing Trump to come up with an argument related to these documents.
[22:20:07]
I think it is — it is actually better if the council is allowed to see it so he creates a clean record and then he can just say that`s it, they`re going to the government for all of their use.
And just remember, Judge Dearie sat on the FISC. That is the court that deals with national security issues. He is going to understand exactly what Neal is talking about and he is also going to understand the need to act quickly. He will give I think Trump and his counsel an opportunity to be heard but then I think he`s going to make a very fast decisive ruling on this stuff.
And I do think that`s the main issue for the government. I mean, I agree that there are lots and lots of reasons to appeal this — credential reasons, it`s such a — it`s such a terrible decision. But I do think that Judge Dearie at the end of the day is probably just a very, very good draw for DOJ, and it`ll be interesting to see whether Trump sort of ruse the day that he selected him.
O`DONNELL: Okay, it feels like we`re just getting started here, but the control room really needs a commercial break here. So I`m just going to pause us here for a commercial break.
When we come back, we`re going to hear what Donald Trump testified in public today about those documents. And we`ll go to that strategic question, we`ll review that strategic question of do — does — should the Justice Department from this point forward just bet on Raymond Dearie or as Neal says, mount that appeal. We`re going to come back for that right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:26:10]
O`DONNELL: Today, Donald Trump appeared on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Actually, it was a photograph of Donald Trump, with Donald Trump talking into the show by phone. And, that`s talking photograph testified, not under oath about the evidence seized by the FBI from his Florida residence.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST: Mr. Patel said he witnessed you giving verbal orders to declassify the papers that ended up at Mar-a-Lago. Do you remember making those orders?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: That`s correct. And not only that, I think these other people also where there.
HEWITT: Did you take those papers down there after declassifying them unintentionally? Or do you have any idea they were there?
TRUMP: Remember this, remember this: everything was declassified, number one. And if you look at the presidential — if you look at the act that was passed, it talks about what you can do, what you can`t do, how you negotiate with NARA. And then if you look at what is running NARA, it is radical left run, it`s radical, radical left.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Back with us, Neal Katyal, Andrew Weissmann and Bradley Moss.
And he rambled on from there, but I kind of cut off right around the point where the judge would if you satisfy in court started rambling off about the radical left.
Bradley Moss, so there you have a potential defendant`s testimony, not under oath, saying, everything was declassified.
BRADLEY: Yeah, what I would remind on Trump`s, he has the right to remain silent. Everything he says. And it will be used against him in a court of law.
He`s putting his lawyers into a corner here. They have no other option at this point but to try to concoct some kind of argument about declassification. Clearly, he is expecting them to put up something from Kash Patel and these so-called others who are apparently in the room.
But here`s the problem he`s going to face, whether it is before Judge Cannon or through the special master or the 11th Circuit in the Supreme Court. The case law is clear that if he`s going to try to argue if the, was to be an issue, about — going to try to argue that in some fashion, he has to have specifically done that two particular document. It can`t be a general hand waving order. He`s got to go through a process.
It`s not me saying. It`s the court saying it through his presidency. That`s how they got out of having documents revealed, including from Andrew Weissmann, when he did his work on the Mueller report, because of one of Donald Trump`s tweets, he said, no, no. He didn`t classify anything. He didn`t follow the process. It wasn`t self executing.
There is case load that shows how this would work. He has done none of it. And to literally try to recreate the case law for him and only him would be ridiculous.
O`DONNELL: Andrew Weissmann, it seems like the judge may be a listener to the “Hugh Hewitt Show” because that is the only place where anyone has actually said that this stuff was declassified. And she today — tonight in her ruling, took the position of, how can I possibly know? How could I ever know, anyone know, if I document marked classified is actually classified?
WEISSMANN: So one of the — one of her answers to the argument with the government said. He`s not actually disputing — this we show that this is classified and it has all the markings of a classified. And he is not saying that he declassified and she basically says tish tosh.
You know, you really can`t expect him to have concretized — that`s the word she used — his position because he hasn`t seen these documents since they were seized. That is the most insane thing in the world. First fall, he declassified them. You can say. It doesn`t matter whether he saw it or not.
[22:29:48]
And how about the fact that he saw them for 18 months when they were in Mar-a-Lago, including in his own office.
I mean the idea that she wrote that, and you sort of wonder, is there a law clerk, is there somebody trying to pull back some of the things that are more inane in there?
But that`s one of the reasons, I think, they`re hearing from people like Neal, that you really have a very, very strong appeal here to get a stay of her decision.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: So Neal, let`s go to your expertise here, which is that the strategizing appeal, the appeals court, the very question of whether to appeal tonight. So you have Raymond Dearie as the special master, and that`s as good a choice as you can have.
What about just placing a bet on Raymond Dearie and saying the court says he should be done by November 30th of — by November 30th we could be well on our way, authorized by Raymond Dearie, to use all of this material. That could be a lot faster than the appeals process.
NEAL KATYAL, MSBNC LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I don`t think he could do that. I mean Lawrence. I really can see it, but I think it`s really unlikely. And that`s because this decision is so, so bad. I mean it cray-cray.
And Lawrence, we suspected we would get these kind of decisions from her. Remember in her very first hearing, the only hearing she ever had on n this case, she closed the courtroom. No live audio, no video, no tape delayed audio or video later. She even kicked out the people who were tweeting in there.
And we never heard her ask a question. We never heard her voice. All we`ve got is these opinions which are, to put it mildly, cray-cray opinions. And these opinions are filled with concepts that are really unfamiliar to American law. I don`t know if she went to law school in Russia, or something but they`re not American law.
So yes, can the Justice Department say, well Judge dearie is fabulous, maybe he can act quickly. He can say there is no (INAUDIBLE) interest that Trump has in these materials, that the classification issues are irrelevant, you know, all the things that Andrew and Bradley had mentioned.
But here`s my worry, it is going to probably to require counsel, his counsel, to see these documents. And Donald Trump is not someone who can get someone like Andrew or Brad, who have carried these clearances in the past, to represent him. He`s got a bunch of people who have never had them.
And Brad`s right, you can get clearances quickly, but clearances for SCI, substantive compartmented information, human source information, right may take a while. That could delay things.
And then the other problem with Dearie is, ok, let`s say Dearie moves quickly. He doesn`t have the final word. Then it goes back to Judge Cannon, who is going to review everything. And we don`t know how long that is going to take.
Then Donald Trump is going to appeal this to the 11th circuit when he invariably, if he loses that, and then appeal it to the Supreme Court.
So you know, delay has always been his strategy. And you know, the problem here is that legally the arguments that movements Trump makes are bogus. If you just heard him on the tape talk about the Presidential Records Act. The R in the Presidential Records Act does not stand for reprieve.
I mean as much as Trump`s, you know, (INAUDIBLE) comes with Hugh Hewitt, you know, talk about, you know, how he can do anything, it is no get out of jail free card, it doesn`t involve agency records, which these are. It doesn`t involve nuclear information. There are so many problems with these arguments.
The 11th circuit can roll pretty quickly, and I think that`s what they should do.
O`DONNELL: Bradley Moss, strategically, where do you think the Justice Department should go?
BRADLEY MOSS, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: I definitely think they should go to the 11th circuit, because if they don`t, I`m going to use this case in everything I do. I`m going to go after Andrew Weissmann`s record. And I`m going to demand a special master to review everything Andrew Weissmann did at the FBI.
Because this president goes against everything I`ve ever faced up against anything when trying to get records declassified, when trying to find out information from the government, you know, things like the Freedom of Information Act, and the prepublication review.
This would completely upend entire generation of case law. So there`s no way the government can let it stand because they don`t want FOIA lawyers and everybody else to be able to use it to start peeling back all this classified information.
O`DONNELL: Well, there`s also the fact that the government said, in its last filing, that it would appeal if the judge rules against them the way she has tonight. So that appeal could be coming as early as tomorrow.
Neal Katyal, Andrew Weissmann, Bradley Moss — can never thank you enough, especially on an important night like this, to deal with this breaking news information for us. Thank you all very much.
MOSS: Thank you.
KATYAL: Good night.
[22:35:00]
O`DONNELL: And coming up, Marco Rubio is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and he`s now defending Donald Trump`s illegal possession of illegal documents at his Florida home. So how many classified documents does Marco Rubio have at his house in Florida? That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:39:54]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): It Is time to open our eyes. We cannot allow a con artist to get access to the nuclear codes of the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was Marco Rubio talking about Donald Trump in 2016. Now Marco Rubio is saying that the con artist getting caught with classified documents at his Florida home — this is what he`s saying about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: This is really at its core, a storage argument that they`re making, right. They`re arguing there are documents there. They don`t deny that he should have access to those documents, but they deny that they were not properly stored.
I don`t think a fight over storage of documents is worthy of what they have done, which is a full scale raid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Joining us now is Florida Congresswoman Val Demings, a member of the House Intelligence and House Judiciary Committees and a Democratic Senate candidate against Marco Rubio in Florida. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
When I hear Marco Rubio say that, it leaves me hoping that if you have a debate with Marco Rubio in this campaign, you can ask him how many classified documents he has at his home in Florida.
REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL): Lawrence, it`s great to be with you. And my goodness, the many faces of Marco Rubio.
Thank you for that question. We`re trying to get at least three debates scheduled. But you know it`s just really amazing. Marco Rubio, as you`ve indicated, sits on the intelligence committee. So do I. Marco Rubio knows what we have to go through to review classified documents. What it takes to enter the secured location, the SCIF, where these documents are kept.
We can`t take any electronic devices and we know that classified documents can contain information from Defense, Intelligence, nuclear capabilities, or other capabilities, or gaps, sources and methods. So for him to say that this is simply a fight over storage is irresponsible, shameful, and just, I think, clearly demonstrates just how far Marco Rubio will go for a political gain.
O`DONNELL: Can you explain to Marco Rubio and to our audience why you would not store classified documents in your home?
DEMINGS: You know, it`s quite shameful to have to ask that question. But let me explain to the senior senator from Florida. There is no ability within a private residence, and certainly not one that is semi private and open to public guests, that would provide the top of security for the documents, the sensitive nature of this information contained in classified materials, top secret materials, that could actually jeopardize the national security of our nation and our allies.
And for Marco Rubio, I mean, we all know how he basically carried on in 2016 and now what he is saying now is totally irresponsible. And I tell you what, if he if you`re looking for someone who will consistently stand up for the rule of law and has the courage to do what it takes to protect our national security, you better look farther than Marco Rubio.
O`DONNELL: Congresswoman Val Demings, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Always appreciate.
DEMINGS: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: And another Florida story. Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis sent dozens of people on a chartered plane to a small island in Massachusetts after lying to them about where they were going and why they were going there.
Andrea Campbell, the front-runner candidate for attorney general of Massachusetts, will join us next.
[22:43:52]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Land amid the streams — That`s what the Wampanoag tribe called their beautiful island before the English explorer Bartholomew Gosnold arrived in 1602 and called it Martha`s Vineyard.
The permanent population of the island has not grown very much in the 400 years since the English created their first settlement there. The 3,000 members of the Wampanoag tribe who were there 400 years ago have been largely replaced by about 16,000 to maybe as high as 20,000 permanent residents of the island.
That population explodes to over 100,000 in the summer with an accompanying job explosion for seasonal workers, restaurants, hotels, uber drivers, other seasonal businesses there. Those jobs begin to disappear the week before Labor Day and have completely disappeared by Labor Day.
Such is the knowing cruelty of Republican Governor Ron DeSantis`s decision to fly dozens of Spanish speaking migrants from South America to Martha`s Vineyard, a week after Labor Day when there are no jobs there, and dropped them there after lying to them that they were being sent there to get jobs.
[22:49:48]
O`DONNELL: The tiny towns of the island are ghost towns this time of year but Edgartown came to life yesterday to respond to the needs of the people whose lives Ron DeSantis decided to play games with.
One man from Venezuela told the “Vineyard Gazette”, “I came here, walking. We went through ten different countries until we got to Texas. There a refugee association put us in a plane and told us there would be work and housing here.
There were so many people on the island eager to help that Edgartown police urged people not to try to deliver anymore contributions. Some of the students at Martha`s Vineyard High School taking AP Spanish served as translators.
And in the process the, people of Martha`s Vineyard taught the governor of Florida and the governor of Texas who teamed up on this stunt — a lesson. It`s the lesson that Catholic and Christian education teaches elementary school students when they read the New Testament passage, “Whatever you have done for the least of my brethren, you have done for me.” That is the one bible passage that I have never heard a Republican quote.
Joining our discussion now is Andrea Campbell, Democratic nominee for attorney general of the state of Massachusetts. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. We did not know this news was going to coincide with your appearance on this program.
What can you say about what we know is happening on Martha`s Vineyard tonight?
ANDREA CAMPBELL (D-MA), NOMINEE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well first, you`ve got at it. It`s a political stunt setting those folks sent to Martha`s Vineyard under false pretenses — women, children, family members.
And what I am so proud of is that there was a bipartisan effort in the state — in the great state of Massachusetts to mobilize resources to make sure every single individual that arrived was received with compassion, empathy, immediately provided housing, food and any other necessity.
And so I`m proud of the folks on the Vineyard, the elected officials, the nonprofits and everyone who mobilized because that is what we are about here in Massachusetts. And frankly that`s what Democrats are about — not political stunts but helping people with a sense of empathy and compassion.
O`DONNELL: I think one of the things that people like DeSantis don`t know about the history of Martha`s Vineyard, they think it is this very white, very, very rich place, which is one way of looking at it. But as you know, it is one of the oldest summer resorts for black America in this country. Black Americans have been summering and living in Martha`s Vineyard in large numbers for well over a hundred years and have been there for hundreds of years. And it is an integrated community before that plane arrived.
CAMPBELL: Absolutely. And it`s a diverse community. You mentioned the Wampanoag tribe — Native Americans who, of course, have been in Massachusetts and in this country for centuries. And African Americans, the same on the island, have been a part of the fabric of the island for a long time.
But what was so beautiful about the response, everyone mobilized, regardless of the demographic, regardless of the political affiliation, to do what was right and to do what was necessary, to help folks in a time of need and to really demonstrate the values, not only of this country but of Massachusetts. And I`m really proud of that.
It`s an example that Massachusetts continues to set, that we are about helping people doing the work, not political stunts and not wasting people`s time. And being, frankly, non compassionate in the process.
O`DONNELL: Are there legal issues for the Massachusetts attorney general to be looking at in this case? Issues of fraud or other legal questions?
CAMPBELL: Absolutely. I`m obviously still on the campaign trail, working hard, and I can`t take anything for granted, as we mobilize and continue to mobilize to work hard to win in November.
So, working with the current attorney general, and of course many of the elected, they are navigating a whole bunch of issues. The immediate needs, of course, is making sure that folks have shelter, food, and a sense of security.
And at the same time, looking at their immigration status and doing everything we can to help them with those issues. And making sure that people feel a sense of warmth and community and that`s exactly what folks have been doing since that plane arrived.
O`DONNELL: What other issues do you see on the horizon for the office you are seeking, the attorney general of the state of Massachusetts? Massachusetts is not one of those states that is in danger of losing democratic process and being basically overtaken by Republican election deniers. But what other issues does the attorney general`s office face?
CAMPBELL: Many. Number one is, of course, everything happening with the Supreme Court and making sure that folks in Massachusetts continue to have access to critical reproductive health care services. That is, of course, a national conversation as well.
[22:54:56]
CAMPBELL: Everything in having to do with housing and affordability, which is a major issue that is coming up here in Massachusetts. Mental health, it`s an epidemic that has existed nationally and in the state for decades. Uptick in depression, anxiety coupled with drug abuse and the opioid crisis.
Major issues that the next attorney general is going to have to grapple with. And I look forward to addressing those issues, along with racial disparities and so many other things that are coming up on the trail.
O`DONNELL: Andrea Campbell, winning the Democratic nomination for attorney general in the state of Massachusetts is usually the equivalent of winning the office. So, congratulations on how far you have come. We will be watching the rest of the campaign.
CAMPBELL: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
We`ll be right back.
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[22:59:49]
O`DONNELL: Massachusetts candidate for attorney general Andrea Campbell gets tonight`s LAST WORD.
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