Updated
Summary
Buckingham Palace confirming the death of the longest reigning British monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, paving the way of Prince Charles to become King Charles III. DOJ appealing after losing procedural step in review of seized Trump documents. Convicted in the January 6 case for contempt of Congress, former Trump aide Steve Bannon is now indicted in New York for money laundering, conspiracy, and fraud. Queen Elizabeth II dies at the age of 96.
Transcript
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: And funds, he needed his supporters to pay for the wall while he was president. It`s just — it`s incredible on every level.
Chuck Rosenberg, Mike Schmidt, Rick Stengel, thank you so much for spending time with us.
Thanks to all of you for letting us into your homes on this most extraordinary day of news. We are so grateful. THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now.
Hi, Ari.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC ANCHOR: Hi, Nicolle. Thank you very much.
Welcome to THE BEAT, everyone. I am Ari Melber.
And on tonight`s broadcast, the death of Queen Elizabeth II. She was 96 years old. We will be reporting tonight on her life, her legacy, the ties to the United States and why this is such a large global story right now.
Also other news here at home. The Justice Department is formally appealing a federal judge`s decision that went against the Garland DOJ that requires the appointment of a special master to review the documents seized from Donald Trump`s Mar-a-Lago property. That is a big development in that clash.
We have that story later as well as Steve Bannon, the Trump aide, surrendering in New York for new criminal charges, money laundering, defrauding his own MAGA supporters. A story that Nicolle and our colleagues have been covering today and we have more on that in tonight`s broadcast.
But we begin here with the United Kingdom and really much of the world in mourning. Queen Elizabeth II dying at 96 years old. Now she sat on the throne as you have probably heard for a full 70 years. If that sounds like an extraordinarily long time, even for a monarchy, that`s because it is. It was indeed the longest reining British monarch ever. Her son, Prince Charles, is now officially king Charles III.
Mourners are outside Buckingham Palace. You can see that there in the evening, a makeshift memorial has been growing. The Queen passed away in Scotland at the family`s summer vacation home, Balmoral Castle, where she had actually been living for most of the duration of the last two years. The post on that gate, “The Queen died peacefully at Balmoral this afternoon.”
And that is how the world learned of this officially. Prince William was also seen driving with family through the gates on what is a day both of great ceremony and history and circumstance for the British people, for the monarchy, but also, as always when it comes to human lives, a deep and personally sad day for that family that is in mourning. Prince Harry was seen in the back seat of this car in Scotland there.
And Queen Elizabeth was a global figure known for many things, including her compassion and in that long duration that I mentioned she in a very real way lived through tectonic shifts in the monarchy and foreign policy, post colonialization, many, many different phases of life and governance were in some sense intersecting with and overseen by her rule.
If you want to look at it through our lens here at home and think about how many different eras we`ve had that we sometimes mark by our elected national leaders, by our presidents, well, we checked, she met with 14 different American presidents across seven decades. President Biden on that note releasing a statement saying, “The Queen was a stateswoman of unmatched dignity and constancy who deepened the bedrock alliance between the U.K. and the U.S.”
We`ll have more on the foreign policy relationship here between the United States and the U.K., two countries that at various periods in history have really been seen as the leader of democracy, of empire, of policies both that spread around the world and some policies that have been vociferously and widely criticized. Just two days ago is the last photo that we know of showing the Queen in public doing a public act.
She was appointing a new prime minister there, Liz Truss. We also have these live pictures from the British embassy here in Washington. President Biden visiting to pay his respects as well as what you see here, our president signing a condolence book. We have this story covered for you tonight and we want to begin with NBC`s Keir Simmons live from Buckingham Palace. Keir?
KEIR SIMMONS, NBC NEWS SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ari, tonight there are crowds outside Buckingham Palace much as there were crowds outside this same palace just a few months ago when the Queen celebrated her jubilee, her 70 years on the throne. Anyone who has been here to London on vacation will know exactly where I am. It is famous all over the world. Famous mall to my right. The statue of Queen Victoria, the last great monarch perhaps.
Now we will say that Queen Elizabeth II was the last great monarch. And beneath her, beneath Victoria, those crowds just think about this, Ari, when Queen Elizabeth was born in the 1920s —
MELBER: With apologies, Keir, we`ll come back to you. We`re going to listen to the president.
[18:05:09]
We are looking at what is live footage here of President Biden as he leaves the British embassy. We got some notation that he might speak so we were taking that. I want to bring Keir Simmons back.
I would say apologies, sir. And I think you know what these news nights are like. We wanted to see if the president was going to speak. Please continue.
SIMMONS: Yes, this is history happening, Ari. I mean, both presidents and world leaders and then ordinary folks out there on the streets behind me. And I was just saying, this Queen, this woman who was born in the 1920s when the primary mode of communication was the wireless radio, now there are folks outside Buckingham Palace holding up cell phones, something she and her family would never have imagined when she was born.
I mean, that is the art of history that she has lived through and been such an icon for. Because not just — she has — she was not just a constitutional — head of the constitution here but also a cultural icon around the world and also a mother and a grandmother and a great- grandmother to her family who are many of them now at Balmoral consoling and having some private time for what we will see now over the coming days are many, many events, including the Queen lying in state and a state funeral at which you can expect world leaders to converge.
MELBER: Keir Simmons, who is keeping busy with us as you`ve said, keeping busy reporting on history here. Thank you.
SIMMONS: You bet.
MELBER: I want to bring in our other experts now. Jennifer Hassan, our London based breaking news reporter with the “Washington Post,” and Charlie Lankston, the editor for “The Daily Mail.”
Welcome to both of you. Let`s take a little bit of a listen to a younger queen. Keir was just mentioning the way that media and the way of storytelling really has evolved so much in this life. This was Queen Elizabeth, we checked here, on her 21st birthday giving an address in 1947.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEEN ELIZABETH II, BRITISH MONARCH: It is very simple. I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service and to the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Charlie, what should we know about that service?
CHARLIE LANKSTON, FEMAIL EDITOR, THE DAILY MAIL: Well, I think that that statement right there was exactly what guided Queen Elizabeth II throughout her entire life. A day did not go by where she did not devote herself to her life of service. She endured many a struggle, both personal and public, and she weathered them all with a huge amount of stoicism and grace. She balanced her role as a matriarch with her role as a monarch incredibly well, to the point where I don`t think many people could ever have imagined that she would have done both in such an incredible way.
I think her legacy of service is one of the things that will continue to live on and will certainly last as one of the most important reminders of her legacy for many, many years to come.
MELBER: Well, and you mentioned that legacy, Charlie, something that many people in Europe are familiar with, but the United States audience might be less focused on, just how early her tenure began. So we just saw her there as a princess. It was within a decade, still quite young, that she became the Queen. Let`s take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: It`s inevitable that I should seem a rather remote figure to many of you, a successor to the kings and queens of history, someone whose face may be familiar in newspapers and films, but who never really touches your personal lives. But now at least for a few minutes I welcome you to a piece of my own home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Charlie, that was her first Christmas address as queen. As I mentioned, a decade later. And in the ensuing decades after that, the attention, the presence, what she referred to there as the intimacy both with her rule and really the monarchy in general would seem to have only gotten more intense at times criticized for overly so. Walk us through as Americans some of what we should understand about all of that.
LANKSTON: Well, you know, I think it`s incredibly interesting that in that speech she talked about herself as being a remote figure because I think for the majority of people in the U.K., certainly those like myself who have not ever known life without the Queen, she actually became a person of great personal significance to so many people.
This is a woman who really did lead the country through so many different trials and tribulations, and while she may have faced great criticism on a number of occasions, I think few could forget when Princess Diana died, the huge backlash publicly that the royal family faced.
[18:10:11]
And yet the Queen endured through it all and she remains to this day a beloved, a very admired and a very well respected figure who I think millions of people around the world but certainly millions of people in the U.K. are grieving and mourning today, tonight, and will continue to do so for many days to come.
I know that I`ve spoken to family members who have been left in tears. I know that I have shed several tears myself over the Queen`s passing, and I think that I am one of so many who have shown a great outpouring of emotion because that`s how significant a role the Queen played in our lives as British people.
MELBER: And, Jennifer, the mention of the reaction around the world. And we saw here in this hour, 6:00 p.m. on the East Coast, the president of the United States making this visit and reaction, changing his schedule, I should say, today to do so. Here`s some of what we`re hearing from world leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ TRUSS, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Queen Elizabeth II was the rock on which modern Britain was built.
NICOLA STURGEON, FIRST MINISTER OF SCOTLAND: She has inspired us on occasion comforted us and always personified values we hold dear.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: She was thoughtful, wise, curious, helpful, funny and so much more. She was one of my favorite people in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Jennifer, the world`s reaction.
JENNIFER HASSAN, THE WASHINGTON POST BREAKING NEWS REPORTER: Yes. I mean, as you just saw, world leaders everywhere are paying tribute to the Queen. And I think it doesn`t matter who you are or where you`re from, whether you support the monarchy or you don`t, she was known the world over and she was respected. And that`s something that now King Charles III, you know, within the last couple of hours, that that is something that will really get the royal family through their grief is knowing just how much people around the world really did hold her in high esteem.
MELBER: Yes. You mentioned her esteem, and that`s also a very different role as a queen, as a monarch, than we have in the way most societies are organized today. And so there are, anyone can debate pros and cons to that. Something we`ve heard that was positive at times is that she could at least try to exist above the back and forth of daily politics. You look at the pandemic, which became politically divisive in many countries. Here she was in 2020 trying to speak to her nation on a somewhat human level about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: It reminds me of the very first broadcast I made in 1940, helped by my sister. We, as children, spoke from here at Windsor to children who had been evacuated from their homes and sent away for their own safety.
Today, once again, many will feel a painful sense of separation from their loved ones, but now, as then, we know deep down that it is the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s quite a way to put it, Jennifer. And for the generations of people that went through World War II, they can understand that sacrifice. We have a land war in Europe right now. She was trying to summon something greater, I would say, than politics to get people to do what the science and what the policies suggested would save the most lives. Your thoughts.
HASSAN: Yes. I think the Queen definitely — we`ve seen her soften in recent times. She was known throughout the years, and especially earlier in her rein, as Charlie mentioned when Princess Diana died, as quite stony faced, didn`t ever really show too much emotion. And to an extent she has maintained that. But definitely I would say since the great grandchildren came along we have seen this other side to her where she`s a lot softer.
And she — yes, she seemed to be a lot more emotional, should I say, in her old age. And I think that`s something that`s made people love her even more. As she said, with the pandemic, people really did once again look at her as that source of stability and wisdom and strength to get them through such a hard time. And, you know, we`ve had many tragedies here in the U.K. We had the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017 and the Queen actually went down to the site of that blaze where more than 70 people lost their lives.
And she met with the community. And she met with the public. And she met with people that had lost family and lost friends in that fire and she actually went down there before even Prime Minister Theresa May, who was prime minister at the time. The Queen made it there first. And many people will remember that for a long time that she had those human qualities, and she did care, and she did get involved when the public needed her most.
[18:15:10]
MELBER: Jennifer Hassan and Charlie Lankston, with us on this story tonight. Thank you.
We have our shortest break, one minute, then we turn to the Justice Department going on offense trying to appeal that special master ruling. We`re back in one minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Turning to the criminal investigation of how Donald Trump has handled government records and top secret files, we have news. The Justice Department is now formally appealing that ruling that sided with Trump authorizing a special master to do an additional or separate review of the material seized. DOJ also wants to pause the judge`s order that would purport to bar them from using those documents in what is this open probe.
And with respect to 100 classified documents seized from Mar-a-Lago, the filing says it, quote, “does not and could not assert that he owns or has any possessory interest of the classified records or that he could advance any plausible claims of attorney-client privilege.” In other words, a kind of a carveout where they`re saying, no matter what happens, the stuff that they say he stole that isn`t attorney-client privilege and belongs to the intelligence community is not something that needs to be specially reviewed at all.
The DOJ wants to do this, and this comes three days after the ruling that was approving the special master by a judge in Florida. Donald Trump`s lawyers went to that judge who was appointed by him when he was a president apparently seeking what they thought would be a better outcome.
Meanwhile, a different Trump grand jury investigation is coming to light. The fundraising efforts after the election getting new scrutiny by the feds. The grand jury here has issued subpoenas apparently from “New York Times” reporting that suggests they want more information about Donald Trump`s political action committee which was raising millions of dollars in that critical period leading up to the insurrection.
We`re now joined by an expert on so many of these issues at once, Asha Rangappa was an FBI agent as well as a lawyer and a law professor.
Welcome back.
ASHA RANGAPPA, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Thanks for having me.
MELBER: What do you think of this appeal?
RANGAPPA: I think the appeal is excellent. It`s very clearly written and it is asking for basically a limited relief from the judge`s order. So what they`re asking the judge to do is to issue a partial stay of her own order to essentially, as you said, Ari, carve out the classified documents and say these should not be a part of the special master review. And they offer three arguments for this. The first is they reject that there`s any executive privilege over classified documents, not only because they`re evidence of a crime and U.S. v. Nixon makes this an exception to executive privilege, but also because the executive branch controls classified information and they shouldn`t be prevented from accessing it themselves.
The second argument, and this is the most compelling, I think, Ari, is that they say that the judge artificially bifurcated the criminal part of the investigation from the national security part. If you`ll remember, she originally said, well, the intelligence community can continue its classification review, but the criminal division can`t continue its investigation, and what they say is that these two things are intertwined.
So, for example, the classification review is relevant to whether a crime actually happened and in order for the IC to determine whether methods and sources have been compromised, the FBI actually has to continue its investigation to see whether these records were accessed. And this, I think, will carry great weight because the executive branch is the branch that has the expertise to know what it needs to do to fulfill its national security function.
And the last argument basically is Trump just doesn`t have any possessory interest in these classified documents.
[18:20:03]
I mean, these aren`t his medical records, these aren`t his taxes, and so, you know, this is not harming him in any way to take these out of the mix.
MELBER: Yes. And in all fairness, the only issue there would be potential mistakes, human error can happen where something might have been taken accidentally or might have been mixed up in there, and that you have to give it back. That doesn`t seem to be — there`s no evidence that that happened a lot or is a big problem. There`s much more evidence from as something as simple as the photographs that we have seen to the more meticulous way that they document this stuff, that they went in, reviewed it, and took it.
And so, you know, possessory interest is one of those words where it`s like, they`re talking about stuff he stole. That`s what they`re saying. Now he has every right to deny that, and that could be litigated, but the government`s position overseen by the magistrate in the original warrant is you stole a bunch of stuff. Obviously you don`t have a big say in what`s reviewed because it`s not yours to begin with, which is why we had to come in and take it back.
To what you defined as point two, the overlapping interests, I`ll just read a little bit more from the appeal. They referenced the, quote, “uncertainty” about the bounds of the court order and the implications for the FBI which has caused the intelligence community to, quote, “pause” temporarily what they call critically important work, Asha.
RANGAPPA: Yes. And the reason this is so important is that Judge Cannon`s justification for appointing the special master and making sure that, you know, that the documents are properly filtered was because she thought that there could be potential injury to Trump, reputational harm, right? That, you know, it followed the normal course that it might in a criminal process waiting until an indictment, filing a motion to suppress, that he`s already suffered the stigma of being indicted.
And I think when you read this DOJ filing you realize how relatively trivial that harm is compared to our government having to halt a review of the national security implications and damage that may have been caused by Trump holding these documents. I mean, if she decides to not grant this partial stay, she will be putting the importance of the reputation of the former president above the national security interests of the United States, and I think that it would be astonishing.
I`m not sure it would be surprising at this point. It would be astonishing. But at that point the DOJ can appeal to the 11th Circuit. And I think that they have a good case because generally the executive branch is given great deference when it comes to matters of national security.
MELBER: Then you have this other investigation as mentioned with the funding of activities that we know was around the period after Trump had lost going into what became the insurrection. What do you see in that newly-revealed aspect of that probe?
RANGAPPA: Well, in that aspect I see a couple of things. First, this is a separate thread that`s being investigated apart from the incitement of, you know, insurrection, the attack on the Capitol, the false elector scheme. This is really about the funding and the — essentially what appears to be a fraudulent scheme to raise money. This Save America PAC raised $250 million claiming that they were going to be using it to fight election fraud and clearly there wasn`t anything to fight at that point. And so this investigation is pursuing a new thread.
It`s also being done with a separate grand jury and with a separate prosecutor. And I think this is really important because it means that the Department of Justice is really devoting resources to looking at all of these different threads. And I think that that was a real concern before given the breadth of this investigation. I think the largest investigation probably in DOJ`s history, having to prosecute all of the on-the-ground people and then look into all of these other threads. Did they have the manpower? But it looks like they`re finding the manpower to do multiple different angles simultaneously.
MELBER: Understood. Asha, good to see you as always on a very busy news night.
Coming up, we have more on Queen Elizabeth`s history including with United States presidents, but up next we have a lot of news today. Steve Bannon, the Trump aide, indicted in New York, surrendering next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:29:10]
MELBER: There`s a lot of news tonight, and we have breaking news right now. Longtime Trump ally, I should say, Trump ally, Steve Bannon has been indicted. This is the indictment. It lays out new charges against him in New York, money laundering, conspiracy and trying to defraud MAGA and Trump donors.
Bannon surrendered himself to New York state court authorities this morning. He pled not guilty. Prosecutors allege that he was part of a plot that will sound familiar, scamming donors for a private mission to use their money to build a wall in the southern border. Now technically Bannon could face over a decade in prison if convicted on all charges. The D.A. says he was the architect of a multi-million dollar scheme defrauding thousands of donors.
When he entered the courtroom today Bannon said he was basically fighting back against what he views as a kind of persecution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE STRATEGIST: This is what happens the last days of a dying regime. They will never shut me up. They`ll have to kill me first. I have not yet begun to fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Donald Trump pardoned Bannon on the federal charges related to this same now-alleged scam, the fact-pattern, the fundraising the whole thing. That pardon, as a legal matter, does not protect him from — or insulate him from these new state charges. And Bannon, like Trump, has many legal problems. There is a separate investigation that led to his conviction in Washington for defying the January 6 Committee. Mr. Bannon separately awaits sentencing on that conviction.
I`m joined now by The Nation`s Elie Mystal. Welcome back, sir.
ELIE MYSTAL, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT, THE NATION: Hi! How are you doing?
MELBER: I`m good. You look at this and you see a case that is very clearly based on numbers, receipts, money. In that sense, it looks like a strong case for a jury to look at regardless of one`s other views of Mr. Bannon`s rhetoric, his politics, etcetera. What do you see in the — in the receipts, in the paper case here?
MYSTAL: Yes, well, first of all, I just want to refute something that Steve Bannon said. He said that people are trying to shut him up. Nobody is trying to shut him up. He will be entitled to visitation hours. I`m sure that he can read lots of books and write lots of things down while he is behind bars. Because Ari, we are now prosecuting Bannon for a crime that he has already been charged with and pardoned for, right? So, we already know that he`s in significant legal jeopardy here such that the former president decided to pardon his henchmen.
But here`s the thing. And here`s where we`re going to talk a little bit about one of my favorite subjects, double jeopardy, right? Double jeopardy is the rule that you cannot be prosecuted twice for the same crime. That is expansive enough to mean that you cannot be prosecuted twice for the same kind of criminal activity, for the same suite of acts.
And I, as a liberal person, I`ll just put that out there in case you didn`t know, I like double jeopardy. I don`t like the government to be able to go after a person again and again and again and again and again. But here`s the thing, Donald Trump pardoned Steve Bannon before his case ever went to trial, right, because he had to because he was running out of time in office.
By pardoning him before he ever went to trial, we are not really in a double jeopardy situation because Bannon was never put in jeopardy in the first place. On top of that, New York State passed a law in 2019, then- Governor Andrew Cuomo closing a New York State loophole —
MELBER: I`m going to redirect you a little bit, not that I don`t love your legal analysis, but the question was about the case against him. I think double jeopardy is interesting to lawyers, but what`s he on trial for? Is it a strong case?
MYSTAL: Yes. Sorry. It`s a very strong case. He defrauded — he defrauded MAGA people to build a wall. They`ve got receipts, they`ve got emails. They`ve got emails, where he is literally talking about how he needs to how they have to do this so they can keep the grift going. They`ve got him dead to rights on this. It`s a — it`s a very strong case. I absolutely expect him to be convicted.
And this is something that we`ve seen from New York State before, the new district attorney, Alvin Bragg. This is I think the second Trump crony that he`s going after who had previously been pardoned by the President. So, again, we`ve got people who are — who are already in significant legal trouble that Donald Trump tried to get off the hook. Now, state governments, New York State in this case, are coming up behind cleaning up that Trumpian mess. And I absolutely expect Steve Bannon to face the full effects of legal accountability.
MELBER: What do you think it says? What does it reveal that a certain brand of “politics or electioneering” is so frequently needed to be policed as crime by federal and state authorities? I mean, let`s not forget, for all the criticism of the DOJ under Donald Trump, it was its independent ability to bring the charges against Bannon in the first place. It is now a different jurisdiction bringing this — as you mentioned, the same case fact pattern, and it would seem to suggest a problem. We want people that have wide latitude to speak and clash and debate and even have the freedom to say terrible ideas and then democracy can test them. But we don`t want, I don`t think, politics to be a crime spree.
What does it tell you that so many different prosecutors have come back around and said, they`re trying to take advantage of Trump fans and their policy preferences to steal from them?
MYSTAL: Yes, well, I mean, this is — this is a feature that I don`t want to say is unique to Trump but is endemic to Trump and the people he hired, right? He did not — he said that he was going to bring in the best piece people, in fact he brought in the dumbest criminals, people who kind of again and again kind of test our laws and test the — test the boundaries, right?
[18:35:13]
There`s a — there`s a thing about Trump`s orbit, the people in Trump`s orbit, they`re a little bit like the raptors in Jurassic Park, right? They keep testing the fences. They try to figure out where our democracy is weak. And where our democracy is weak, they have broken through. Where our democracy is strong, they have been stopped.
And this is another example of that where they kind of took advantage of the giants presidential pardon power that is unbounded and probably an anachronistic thing that we should change in our Constitution. They took advantage of the — of that to get away with crime. But now they`re seeing a stronger part of our — of our policy where we have individual state governments with dual sovereignty able to kind of clean up the mess that Trump left behind.
MELBER: Yes. You lay it out. It`s important. You did refer to dumb criminals. Fact check, Mr. Bannon is a criminal convicted on the federal cases I mentioned. His intellect however, fact check, TBD. We don`t have a —
MYSTAL: Does he taken notes on a criminal conspiracy, Ari, because that`s what I see.
MELBER: Well, I just want to be clear. Criminal, yes. Intellect, we don`t have the receipts to fact-check that so it`s TBD. Elie, good to see you, sir.
MYSTAL: Nice to see.
MELBER: Absolutely. We`re going to fit in a break. We`ve been tracking a lot of different news in the United States and around the world. We turn back to the U.S. relationship with England and Queen Elizabeth as we mark her death today. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We mourn for all of you. She was a great lady. We`re so delighted that we got to meet her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: President Biden speaking late today at the British Embassy in Washington offering his condolences. This is following the death of the Queen. Queen Elizabeth took the throne in 1952. If you measure that by American history, President Truman was in office. And we touched on this earlier in our reporting. She actually met 14 American presidents, basically every president since World War II with the one exception of Lyndon Johnson.
Truman said she captured the hearts of Americans. Obama touted her as truly one of my favorite people, something we heard from the Canadian Prime Minister just today. The Queen hosted America`s own version of a type of royal family albeit elected John F. Kennedy and Jackie O. seen here in some iconic photographs taken at Buckingham Palace.
The Queen even danced with President Ford at the White House. He infamously led her to the dance floor to the song — well, it happened to be — The Lady is a Tramp. She even rode horses with President Reagan at Windsor Castle scene there. This truly is international foreign policy history. And when only the Queen`s hat could be seen behind the lectern during her address at the White House next to the first President Bush, she later made a little quip about it speaking before Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH II, QUEEN, ENGLAND: I do hope you can see me today from where you are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: It`s always good to be able to laugh at yourself even if you are the queen. Many people remembering and honoring her today. And we turn to someone who, Gene, not to make it about you, but people may not all realize or remember. Gene Robinson Pulitzer, Prize-winning Columnist for the Washington Post. Someone we go to on many American stories, but he was also London Bureau Chief for The Washington Post in that period from 1992 to 1994, covering many of these stories touching on the monarchy, including reporting on the tragic death and the funeral of Princess Diana. Welcome back, sir.
EUGENE ROBINSON, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Good to be here, Ari.
MELBER: Your thoughts on the history here, the transatlantic relationship.
ROBINSON: Well, since Churchill, really, one of the prime imperatives of British foreign policy has been to maintain, strengthen at all costs the special relationship between Britain and the United States. And you hear occasionally we talk about the special relationship here in the United States. You hear it all the time in Britain.
When Boris Johnson just left office in his — in his last — the last time he spoke to the common, one of the things he mentioned as he was going out of the door to his successor we was not he had been chosen was stay close to the Americans. And so, she was really the one of the major sort of tools in the implementation of that policy. She was kind of their ultimate weapon in implementing the policy of staying close to the Americans because she is someone known and respected and liked in this country.
And she knew what she was doing. She paid attention to U.S. presidents and you know, in a way that often flattered them in a way that kept that relationship going. And so, you know, somebody said today that she was the world`s — you know, at her death, the world`s most experienced diplomat. And in a way she was. She played a role in foreign policy, and one of those roles was keeping close to the Americans.
[18:45:34]
MELBER: Yes, you mentioned that. And the monarchy may seem strange at this point in history. It`s strange to a certain people outside of Britain. But as you mentioned, it also has these other sorts of concomitant benefits, one of which was you had this experience for that long. You had a woman on the world stage treated as a peer or more — super appear, if you will, for the superpower relationship that we`re covering, at a time when there were fewer women at those levels, presidential level meetings in such. Here she was with President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH II: Mr. President, I firmly believe that the strength of our links and many shared interests will continue to ensure that when the United States and the United Kingdom stand together, our people and other people of goodwill around the world will be more secure and can become more prosperous.
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MELBER: You know, it`s almost out of a different era. I`m curious, when you look at the period that she traverse, which we`ve touched on multiple guests tonight, where does the British Empires decline and evolution fit in? Where does its historical role, like the United States, with a foreign policy that is very controversial in many parts of the world, colonialism, post-colonialism, the debt in owes?
We`re here marking her life. And we know in the news when we do these obituary pieces, I mean, many great things have been said about her as a person. But she was also affiliated with a period of time where there was also many valid criticisms of British foreign policy and its long costs exerted on other nations and other peoples. Your thoughts on any of that, again, having been London Bureau Chief.
ROBINSON: I mean, absolutely she was Queen, you know, shortly after India seems to become — cease to be a British colony. She was Queen during the period of apartheid in South Africa. She — you know, there were — there were a lot of controversial unfortunate, at times evil British government policies that were implemented at various times when she was — when she was — during her reign.
Now, she as Queen, did that set policy to make that clear. I mean, every — you know, at the opening of every parliament, she would read the address given to her by the Prime Minister, laying out the legislative program and laying out policies and would read it verbatim. But — so her job, in a sense, was in some ways to smooth out the rough edges of those policies, to adjust as the policies did adjust.
I mean, think of — think of the diminution of Britain, frankly, on the world stage from the beginning of her life to the end. Britain was one of the unquestioned great powers of the world and it is not now. It punches above its weight, in part, in large part because of the special relationship with the United States, but in no small measure, because of the esteem in which she was held. It is — she was — she was kind of a secret weapon of British power that the Brits deployed at various times, and usually to their benefit.
They will miss that. King Charles III who is now the sovereign, does not have the sort of universal goodwill that she had. She had no opinions. She never expressed opinions. He has opinions, some of which I would agree with, others of which I would disagree with. But the point is that you do know where he stands on uncertain issues and some people don`t like that.
And so, my question now going forward is not so much in the United Kingdom, but in places like Australia and Jamaica. How long are they going to still be down with this whole monarchy thing in an egalitarian age and, you know, they keep it as long as Elizabeth is queen? She`s not queen now. She has passed away. And so, those systems survive —
MELBER: Right.
ROBINSON: — in some of the important former colonies.
[18:55:43]
MELBER: Yes, I think those are big questions. This is a time, as we discuss all of this, that it comes up. We`ve only scratched the surface, but done so with someone who`s done a lot of the reporting across the pond and back. Eugene Robinson, thanks for joining us tonight.
ROBINSON: Great to be here.
MELBER: Absolutely, sir. We`ll be right back.
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[18:55:00]
MELBER: MSNBC Special coverage of the death of Queen Elizabeth continues, her long-lasting, and sometimes complex legacy. As we close this edition of THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER, we share some thoughts we`ve been hearing from around the world.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s an amazing woman. I mean, if you think of what she has seen in her lifetime and what she`s done nationally, globally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her sensitivity, her empathy, and of course her compassion. And I think that is something that can`t be taught.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She helps to define how women were going to be in the modern age. She is the original woman who nevertheless persisted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)