Updated
Summary
Russian TV is already talking about Donald Trump running for president in 2024. President Biden awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to 17 people today. Like other lists of presidential Medal of Freedom honorees in the past, the list included world renowned artists and athletes, former officeholders, civil rights leaders, educators and for the first time in history today, the list included a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph. Former Congressman Charlie Dent is one of the leaders of the Republicans endorsing Democrat Josh Shapiro for governor of Pennsylvania. Tomorrow, Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone will testify in a closed session with the January 6 committee.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Ali.
And I was actually just going to begin with pretty much word for word the same summary of the Derek Chauvin update tonight, which doesn`t add, as you pointed out, it doesn`t add prison time for him.
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST, “VELSHI”: Correct.
O`DONNELL: But it does add that federal civil rights violation as a conviction that he pleaded guilty to, and spared everyone a trial on that.
VELSHI: Yeah.
O`DONNELL: And so, you`re right, this is — this is that`s a rare case, rare case, where the police officer was prosecuted for murder, in the states, and prosecuted federally, for the civil rights.
VELSHI: I will remember I was there in Minneapolis for that verdict, and I remember people saying to me, it`s not just us everywhere, is accountability. Justice would be if George Floyd was alive. And a number of people who had been killed by police were alive. But it`s a step toward justice by at least holding police accountable for what they do.
O`DONNELL: It is that, and it`s a big one. Thank you, Ali.
VELSHI: Have a good show.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Well, today, the most clownish British prime minister of our lifetime announced his humiliating resignation pending the choice of a successor and thereby demonstrated once again, the superiority of the British parliamentary system, over the system chosen by our founders, who believed they were smarter. And deciding to lock the country into fixed four-year terms, of presidents, who we now know, for partisan reasons, cannot be removed no matter what crimes they are caught committing.
The founders` obsession to avoid all things British in government led them to the creation of the most grotesque institution ever imposed on a so- called democracy, the Electoral College. The only reason to worry about the fairness of the next presidential election is the Electoral College. Without the Electoral College, no problem.
The Electoral College is one of the Founders many crimes against democracy. Other crimes against democracy by the Founders include two senators per state, not allowing anyone other than a small percentage of white men to vote. And not allowing anyone to vote for United States senators.
The Founders were expire mentors in democracy. Not true believers in democracy. They were dabblers in democracy.
Many of their obstacles to democracy that they put in the Constitution have been removed. Women are now allowed to vote. Black people are allowed to vote. Everyone now, at least, has the right to vote, theoretical right to vote, while Republicans continue to try to make that fight more difficult to exercise.
But the on movable roadblock to democracy at our presidential election is the Electoral College, something that does not exist in any other country on the planet. Republicans have completely given up the hope of ever winning more votes for president than the Democratic candidate. It has been 18 years since the Republican candidate for president won more votes than the Democratic candidate for president.
Democratic candidates for president went routinely win millions more votes than the Republican. And so, the only hope for the Republican to win as we saw in 2016, was to somehow when the Electoral College.
Prior to the year 2000, every winning candidate for president won the most votes and won the Electoral College. So the Electoral College was mostly just a theoretical factor, working in the background of presidential campaigns. Now, the Electoral College is everything.
Joe Biden won Pennsylvania`s 20 electoral votes in the last election. Donald Trump won those 20 electoral votes for years earlier. And now, Donald Trump has a plan to win Pennsylvania`s electoral votes again. And this time, Donald Trump won`t have to win the most votes in Pennsylvania to win Pennsylvania`s electoral votes, because as we heard on this program last night, from our law professor and former Republican, Charles Fried, the radical majority on the Supreme Court, may be participating in what he called, a slow motion coup d`etat.
[22:05:04]
The radical majority on the Supreme Court have agreed to hear a case that could allow state legislators to choose the electors for the Electoral College, no matter which candidate gets the most votes in that state. Pennsylvania is one of the states where that could happen. And the Republican nominee for governor wants it to happen. The Republican nominee for governor, State Senator Doug Mastriano, was plotting with Rudy Giuliani, to try to figure out how to give Donald Trump Pennsylvania`s electoral votes, last time even though Joe Biden won the most votes in Pennsylvania. It was legally impossible to do.
Now there was some falsely alarmed written analysis at the time, and some publications, suggesting that the Pennsylvania legislature could do that. But that analysis was always totally wrong about Pennsylvania, in 2016. Because at the time, the Pennsylvania legislature would have had to quickly pass a law retroactively, giving themselves the authority to name electors and that law would`ve had to been signed by the governor, who is a Democrat, and was never going to sign that law.
So be the alarm in 2016 was a false alarm in Pennsylvania. The Supreme Court might just decide though that even though the Pennsylvania legislator has passed a law like all other legislators, delegating their authority to name electors, to the voters, who choose the electors, through the voting process, that same legislature condense simply decide to seize the power back to name electors, at anytime, without passing any new law. The Supreme Court might give them that power.
And if the Republican candidate for governor wins in November, in Pennsylvania, he will help them do that. And we may be sitting here in 2024, watching presidential election, in Pennsylvania, being stolen while it is also being stolen in other swing states with Republican legislatures and the coup d`etat will be complete and it will be televised.
And the day that happens, the United States of America as we know it ceases to exist. That is what is on the ballot in November in the state where the United States of America was created. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was the place where the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776, 11 years later, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the Constitution of the United States of America was written and agreed to by the then 13th states, the place where the United States was born, maybe the place where it dies.
Nothing less than that is on the ballot in Pennsylvania, in November, of this year. And in other states that could elect Republican governors and Republican legislatures who are already plotting to steal the next presidential election because the Electoral College allows them to steal it. Without the Electoral College, Republican stealing the presidential election would be mathematically impossible. They could never create enough fake votes in states like Arizona, or Georgia, or Pennsylvania, to flip the national vote totals because in California alone, Joe Biden got 5 million more votes than Donald Trump. In New York, Joe Biden got 2 million more votes than Donald Trump.
Every other country in the world that is watching Donald Trump and Republicans plot to steal the next presidential election, knows that the only way they can do that is the Electoral College. And this is screaming lee obvious other countries because no other country has an Electoral College. They look at it in wonder. Every element of the criminal conspiracy that Donald Trump was running in 2020, to try to overturn the outcome of the presidential election, was a manipulation of the Electoral College. That is it. That is the only way.
Most Republican voters in Pennsylvania did not vote for Doug Mastriano and the Republican primary for governor, 56 percent of Republicans voted for other candidates, many of the Republicans who voted against Doug Mastriano agreed with the nine providence Republican leaders who had come out today in support of Democratic candidate in Pennsylvania, because the future of the very existence of the United States of America, as we know, it is at stake, in the governor`s election in Pennsylvania.
[22:10:09]
Former Congressman Charlie Dent is one of the leaders of the Republicans endorsing Democrat Josh Shapiro for governor of Pennsylvania. He is joined by former Republican speaker of the Pennsylvania House Representative and a former Republican lieutenant governor. These Republicans are endorsing the Democrats because they believe that the Republican candidate for governor in Pennsylvania is dangerous. That`s their word. Dangerous.
Republican Charlie Dent says that the Republican candidate, quote, is an extremist, who is a threat that the rule of law and the constitutional order. The rule of law and constitutional order are strong words for politicians. But they are way too dry, and academic-sounding for what actually is at stake.
The United States will no longer be united if Pennsylvania Republicans steal the Pennsylvania presidential election in 2024. The United States itself is what is at stake.
The word united will have no meaning if Pennsylvania steals the presidential election. Pennsylvania will not be reunited with its neighboring state of New York which will deliver at least 2 million more votes for the Democratic candidate. Republicans in Pennsylvania led by the Republican candidate, for president, are applauding, not just a crime against Pennsylvania voters, but a crime against the voters in every other state.
Republicans who have turned against Donald Trump, and Trump supporting candidates, are generally described as anti-Trump, sometimes described as Never Trumpers. That is not with a stand for now. They do not stand simply on opposition to the worst candidate for president and history and the worst president in history, Donald Trump. They now stand in support of preserving the United States of America, and preserving the United States of America by preserving fair elections.
Republicans like Liz Cheney, and Adam Kinzinger from the January 6th committee, who take a stand against Republicans, find themselves in conflict with family and friends, and former friends. The state of Missouri is now seeing such a personal conflict, deeply personal conflict, between friends.
Eric Greitens is running for Senate. He was forced to resign as governor after allegations of sexual misconduct and campaign finance violations. In a country ravaged by mass murders, Eric Greitens made this campaign ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC GREITENS, MISSOURI SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Join the MAGA crew, get a RINO hunting permit, there is no bagging limit, no tagging element, and it doesn`t expire until we save our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: After seeing that, Ken, at a friend who has attended Eric Greitens` weddings, released this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN HARBAUGH, FRIEND OF REPUBLICAN SEN. CANDIDATE ERIC GREITNERS: Eric, I want you to know that there are worst things in life and running for office honorably, and losing. Trust me. I`ve done that.
What you`re doing now is not honorable, and it is not a reflection of the Eric I know. Even if you do win, you`re going to lose more than you can imagine by campaigning like this.
You are called to hunt down Republicans who disagree with you? That`s my mom Eric. Just because she doesn`t think the election was stolen — and let`s be honest, you don`t either — it`s not a reason to threaten her.
She was one of the few people who reach out when you were forced to resign as governor. She wrote to you about grace and redemption. She reminded you that even the greatest sins, those against one`s own family, can be forgiven.
My kids who you played Legos with, Eric, are going to ask one day when I did for my country in this moment of peril. You are going to ask to. I know that weighs on you.
Eric, what you`re doing now is going to get someone killed. Do the right thing. Drop out. Focus on repairing the damage you have done and pray that it`s not too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Leading off our discussion tonight is Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro. He is a Democratic nominee for governor of Pennsylvania.
Thank you very much for joining us again tonight. I really appreciate it.
And I have previously called the stakes in your election very high. They are only getting higher, especially with the recent decision by the Supreme Court to take up the case that could allow state legislators to name electors.
[22:15:02]
I know there is the famous Tip O`Neill phrase of all politics is local, and you are supposed to be running on Pennsylvania issues and going into local communities and talking about those issues. But, this governor`s race in Pennsylvania now, is now about the future of the very existence of the United States of America.
JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: You know, Lawrence, I felt the weightiness of that in your lead into this interview. I feel it every morning when I leave the house and my wife pokes her finger at my chest and says, you better win this! And I felt it just a few hours ago when I was in Carbon County, and a woman came over to me and grabbed me by the chest and said, you need to win!
I am well aware that`s our democracy, which was born here in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, where we have a unique responsibility to defend it, I am well aware that that is on the ballot in this governor`s race. Because I am going up against someone who is not just there on January 6, but breach the police lines. I am going up against someone who has tried to work overtime to not only overturned last election, but promised that he will use his authority that would be governor to deliver the next election, for the former president.
It`s very, very dangerous. The stakes are very high. The good news is, we`re going to win, because we are building a broad coalition of Republicans independents and Democrats. People in rural, suburban, and urban communities, who recognize the stakes of this election, understand just how clear the contrast is. And they are prepared to defend our democracy here in its birthplace.
O`DONNELL: Let`s take a look at the poll, and I don`t normally care very much about these polls, especially at the state of campaigns, but it`s important point to make that this is the USA Today/Suffolk University poll, shows you at 44 percent, shows the Republican at 40 percent. Only four points separating you there, which is uncomfortable for anyone who sees those four points as defining the future of the country, 13 percent undecided voters and that poll.
And those 13 percent of Pennsylvania voters are going to decide a lot more, a lot more than the governance of the state of Pennsylvania over the next four years.
SHAPIRO: Look, I obviously don`t have a whole lot of attention to these different polls that come out, but here`s what I do know. It`s going to be close, Lawrence, we know that because if you just look at our last two presidential races, they were each set up by less than one percentage point. It`s a razor thin state.
It`s why I am traveling all across this commonwealth, every single day, talking to voters, meeting them where they are — Republican, independent, and Democrat. Here is the good news though: in 2016, when Secretary Clinton lost Pennsylvania, I won. And in 2020, when a lot of other Democrats loss in our state, I not only won, but I earned more votes than anyone in the history of Pennsylvania, running for any office at any time.
I don`t say that to pat myself on the back, I say that because I know how to win here. And the coalition we are building a strong, it`s vibrant, and it`s one that is going to help us get to victory. But make no mistake, it`s going to be close. And with all the tongue on the line, I think it`s getting more Pennsylvanians engaged at a level that I have not seen before this early. It`s really exciting.
O`DONNELL: Some of the nine Republican leaders who have endorsed your campaign, set things that were not just stop the crazy guy, and save democracy. It`s not just a defensive endorsement. Some of them are in active agreement with your approach to governing Pennsylvania, and that seems to indicate an ability for you to reach into that 13 percent undecided right now.
SHAPIRO: That question, folks are joining our campaign, including those prominent Republicans who endorse as yesterday. One because they know that I`ve got a track record bringing people together, to actually get things done. Actually solve problems, and make their lives better.
And two, and I think you cited Congressman Dent earlier, they fundamentally believe that my opponent is a threat to the rule of law. And the constitutional order. And that he is out there to try to undermine our freedoms.
You know, look, my opponent talks every day about freedom. He loves to cloak himself in his blankets of freedom.
But here is what I know: it`s not freedom, when you tell a woman what she can do with her body, as he is known to do. It`s not freedom when he gets to tell me what books my kids are allowed to read in school. And it sure as hell isn`t freedom when he says, yeah you all can go vote in Pennsylvania, but I`ll choose the winner. That`s not freedom.
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And this is a man who is trying to take away our freedoms, trying to undermanned the rule of law, and disturb the constitutional order. And that is why Republicans are joining our campaign, to go get together with Democrats and independents, and why we will win in November, and defend our democracy.
O`DONNELL: Josh Shapiro, candidate for governor in Pennsylvania, thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight. We really appreciate it.
SHAPIRO: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
SHAPIRO: Coming up, Donald Trump appears to be very worried about what his White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, is going to tell the January 6 committee under oath tomorrow when he testifies behind closed doors. Neal Katyal will join us next.
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[22:25:18]
O`DONNELL: Tomorrow, Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone will testify in a closed session with the January 6 committee. The testimony will be recorded on video for possible later public use by the committee. A former investigator for the January 6 Committee, John Wood, said this about Pat Cipollone`s testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WOOD, FORMER JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE SR. INVESTIGATING COUNSEL: I`ve heard other people say that he could be the John Dean of this investigation but he`s different from John Dean in a very important respect, which is John Dean was actually involved in some of the wrongdoing. Here I haven`t seen any evidence of Pat Cipollone was involved in the wrongdoing. In fact, he tried to stop it.
But he is similar to John Dean in the sense that not only did have the same position as White House counsel but he was right there in the room and so many of these conversations took place so he could turn out to be a very central witness to this whole investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Neal Katyal, former acting U.S. solicitor general and MSNBC legal analyst.
Neal, this is a big day for the committee whenever obviously an investigation like this, you have the White House counsel coming in. We know he has been quoted in conversations that are material that don`t even include Donald Trump. Donald Trump is not even in the room for some of these conversations.
So, there isn`t a whip of privilege around many of these conversations.
NEAL KATYAL, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Exactly, Lawrence, this is a big deal.
So, the White House counsel is Donald Trump`s top lawyer. We know he was a witness to so many of the things that Donald Trump did. In his testimony already before the Congress that Cipollone thought the Trump was in danger of getting indicted for every crime in the book.
If you want to know how serious this is, I think we can just take a look, Lawrence, at Donald Trump`s reaction to the thought that his top lawyer is going and testifying before Congress tomorrow, because he, you know, he issued — Trump issued a statement that really was kind of a rare soft touch.
This is totally not Trumpian. It didn`t undermine Cipollone`s credibility. He didn`t attack his character. He didn`t call him silly names like phony Cipollone or whatever Donald Trump would normally do. That`s Trump thing he does when he`s scared.
With Cipollone, he is terrified. And so, what he is doing is kind of buttering up Cipollone and talking about privilege and this and that, hoping Cipollone will assert executive privilege, assert attorney-client privilege and as you say, there`s not a whiff of privilege about this stuff.
This was a sure loser and every court if privilege is asserted. It will be a huge waste of time and incredibly damaging to the rule of law for Mr. Cipollone not to tell truth tomorrow.
O`DONNELL: So, here`s what Donald Trump said in his written statement, which I don`t normally burden the audience with Trump statements but this was interesting for a number of reasons. He says: Why would a future president of the United States have to have candid and important conversations with his White House counsel if he thought there was even a small chance that this person, essentially acting as a lawyer for the country, may someday be brought before a partisan and openly hostile committee in congress, or even a fair reasonable committee, to reveal the inner secrets of foreign policy or other important matters so bad for the USA, exclamation point.
And, Neal, it`s so striking because that — I guess the Watergate hearings were in the early years of Donald Trump`s nightclub life in New York. He may be the only American who didn`t watch the White House counsel John Dean testify under oath and bring down the Nixon presidency in the process.
KATYAL: Exactly, Lawrence. I mean, to me, I read that statement, it`s just fear, fear, fear. He is scared. You know, to the extent Donald Trump is saying there`s a chilling effect from — you know, I guess he`s got me there. I guess it`s going to chill future presidents from plotting a coup and telling your White House counsel about it.
You know, that`s the chilling effect that is created. Not that doesn`t particularly worry me. It does worry me.
You know, sometimes, I do believe an executive privilege. I do believe there is that. It just doesn`t encompass people whipping up a crowd and ordering them to storm the Capitol and interfere with the counting of electoral votes. So, you know, there`s a zone for true executive decision- making. What Donald Trump was doing was not acting as the president of the United States.
[22:29:42]
He was trying to protect his job. He didn`t care the consequences of the country, there`s no privilege claim here that will be sustained by any court.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Yes. And the theoretical version of it that Donald Trump comes up with which is the idea of a committee asking the White House counsel about the secrets of foreign policy. That remains impossible.
No White House counsel in history has ever, ever been asked the secrets of foreign policy by a committee. No committee has ever attempted to do it.
And so his statement relies on this kind of utterly fanciful notion of what is involved here at every level.
KATYAL: Exactly Lawrence. You hit it on the head. This is not like an Oval Office conversation that mirrors like some working constitution debate about foreign policy or something that takes place in the Situation Room.
This is him literally plotting a coup and trying to whip up things including this fake electoral scheme and things like that. And by the way, Cipollone is an eyewitness to all of this including, you know, the fake electors, including this plot to try and get Jeff Clark to be the attorney general which evidently Cipollone was the guy who threw that plot out. And a whole bunch of other things like Cassidy Hutchinson`s testimony last week that Trump was told that people were armed and he ordered the magnetometers to be — the medal detectors to be removed.
So all of that is stuff that Cipollone knew about, was an eyewitness to. That`s why his testimony is so important. It`s why I really praise the committee but I really wanted them to subpoena Cipollone. And they took a while to do it, but they`ve ultimately done that. We`re going to this testimony tomorrow.
And to me, I think the most remarkable thing about the committee Lawrence, is not just that they have changed public opinion, these hearings have changed the opinions of people closest to Donald Trump. The ones who were willing to speak for a year and a half, who sat on the sidelines, who would`ve been silenced in 2024, but these hearings have forced them to come out of the woodwork.
I very much hope Pat Cipollone is another one who comes out and just tells the truth, tell the American people what happened.
O`DONNELL: And we could see pieces of this testimony as early as next Tuesday when the committee has scheduled its next public hearing. And they have that hearing scheduled before — or right around the same time they were scheduling this agreement on testimony.
And so, it seems they were prepared to go forward with that hearing even without more material from Cipollone. But now that they have it, they have shown an ability to use newly-obtained evidence very quickly in their public hearings.
KATYAL: Exactly Lawrence. My hat`s off to the committee for, you know, just presenting this in a way that ordinary people can understand. You don`t have to have a law degree, you can just watch this and see what happened. The idea that a president of the United States would be acting this way in the Oval Office.
And perhaps to me the most interesting thing is the hearings so far haven`t focused on the 181 minutes in the Oval Office while the Capitol was under attack. They`re obviously saving that for the end. They`re obviously trying to paint a picture through witnesses of what actually Trump was doing, if anything, during those 181 minutes.
So there`s a lot left to come. The committee is doing a great job, but tomorrow I think is a really critical day for the truth coming out and I really hope that Mr. Cipollone does the right thing.
O`DONNELL: And we will all just have to be patient to discover what the Cipollone truth is that comes out in that testimony tomorrow behind closed doors. Neal Katyal, thank you for joining us once again. Always appreciate it.
KATYAL: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
And coming up, Russian state TV is already talking about Donald Trump running for president again. Julia Davis, who watches Russian state TV for us will join us and David Rothkopf. That`s next.
[22:34:03]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Russian TV is already talking about Donald Trump running for president in 2024.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The other day, Trump promised to destroy the Russian Federation, to destroy Putin`s hegemony, as he put it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is excellent, if Trump becomes the president, we will know his geopolitical goals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will have to think whether to re-install him again as the American president. We haven`t decided yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: And joining us now is Julia Davis columnist for the “Daily Beast” and creator of Russian Media Monitor and David Rothkopf a foreign affairs analyst and columnist for “USA Today” and the “Daily Beast”. He`s host of the “Deep State Radio” podcast.
And Julia, what are we to make of that exchange on Russian TV where they`re talking about we have to think about whether we want to reinstall Donald Trump as president?
JULIA DAVIS, THE DAILY BEAST: It`s a two-fold message. To their own audience, they`re trying to convey that they are omnipotent, that they are telling the former president of the United States what to do.
And also I believe it was a message to Trump himself to stick to the message. And as long as he does, then they will continue to support him or lead him to believe that they support him.
[22:40:00]
O`DONNELL: And David, Donald Trump of course, has been characteristically I think silent about Vladimir Putin`s war in Ukraine. You don`t hear him cheering on President Zelenskyy and you don`t hear him cheering on Vladimir Putin anymore now that we`re past the stage of him declaring the invasion of Ukraine a work of genius?
DAVID ROTHKOPF, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, I think he realizes he may someday want to call upon President Putin again if he runs for office. I don`t think he wants to run afoul of President Putin. And that`s why he`s sort of walking a fine line on all of this.
And essentially, once again betraying American values and our national interests in Ukraine by not doing what he should do as a leader of a major American political party and support democracy, stand up against Putin, stand up against Putin`s aggression. Aggression that in the past he has played down in order to stay cozy with his buddy.
O`DONNELL: Julia Davis, what is the coverage of President Biden in Russian TV? I assume he`s regarded as an enemy because of his support for Ukraine?
DAVIS: Absolutely. He is portrayed as the devil incarnate. They are bashing him and mocking him in every way possible and expressing their desire to have him somehow forced out of his position or certainly not reelected.
And they are supporting the one candidate who they believe is his strongest opponent if he doesn`t end up getting indicted and they don`t think he will. So they`re all for Trump.
And also they`re expecting him to deliver basically the same warning he delivered for them when Putin annexed Crimea. And that is a message of total support, that it was a smart move, genius move and those Ukrainians actually wanted to be part of Russia.
That is I think the message they`re sending him. That`s what they want from him again. And in return they will try to interfere on his behalf.
O`DONNELL: David, it`s fascinating to hear Joe Biden attacked. In this country by Republicans but on Russian TV when he has been so supremely effective in countering Vladimir Putin by supporting Ukraine as strongly as he has.
It`s a level of presidential success at this kind of intervention that I don`t think we have seen since Franklin Roosevelt mounted (INAUDIBLE) to support the British before the United States entered World War II?
ROTHKOPF: I totally agree with you. I think that the way the Biden administration has handled the Ukraine crisis, the way they`ve marshalled our allies in Europe, they way they`ve strengthen NATO to a level of strength and size that it`s never have before, well, that`s not only great U.S. foreign policy but that is Putin`s worst nightmare.
And he has s already suffered the kind of strategic defeat he didn`t think was possible and he is feeling it, you know. And what you are seeing on Russian TV is kind of read in circuses. It`s kind of a distraction because behind the scenes what are the Russians doing?
In the Russian parliament, they are putting forward bills to give the government more control over the economy because they need defense production because people are starting to feel the sanctions, because they are worried that if Europe moves off of their energy dependency on Russia that`s going to hurt more.
Because in Ukraine they are struggling. They can`t even get Ukrainians in the occupied territories to occupy top positions and they`re having to put Russians into those positions. They are struggling, the reason they are struggling is a western alliance that has been led by Joe Biden and that`s why he`s being vilified.
O`DONNELL: David Rothkopf and Julia Davis, thank you both very much for joining us again tonight.
DAVIS: Thank you.
ROTHKOPF: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: And coming up, Sister Simone, the leader of Nuns on the Bus was at the White House today for the presentation of the Presidential Medals of Freedom. She was one of the lucky ones who left the building with the medal. Sister Simone will join us next.
[22:44:32]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Other than my family, the biggest impact in my life were the nuns of Holy Rosary in St. (INAUDIBLE) School, the Sisters of St. Joseph in Claremont, Delaware.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: I could say the same thing about the sisters of St. Joseph at St. Brendan`s my elementary school in Boston. President Biden awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to 17 people today. Like other lists of presidential Medal of Freedom honorees in the past, the list included world renowned artists and athletes, former officeholders, civil rights leaders, educators and for the first time in history today, the list included a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph.
[22:49:58]
O`DONNELL: President Biden recalled a conversation that he had with Pope Benedict when he was vice president.
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BIDEN: He said, I`d like some advice — do you have any advice for me? I said it would be presumptuous of me to give you advice, Your Holiness.
He said no really. And I smiled and I said well, one piece of advice. I said I`d go easy on the nuns, they`re more popular than you are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, our next guest, Sister Simone Campbell received the presidential Medal of Freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simone Campbell.
Inspired by nuns in Catholic school, Sister Simone Campbell has dedicated her life to the suffering and the searching. For nearly 50 years as a nun and an attorney, she has led organizations that provide free legal services to the poor and advocate for workers and immigrants.
Her moral courage helped pass the Affordable Care Act and guide the Nuns on a Bus tour across America to protect the impoverished. With humility and fearlessness, Sister Simone embodies the blessing of faith in God and our obligations to one another as fellow Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: And joining us now is Sister Simone Campbell, former executive director of The Catholic Advocacy Group Network and leader of Nuns on the Bus and as you can see right now a 2022 recipient of the presidential Medal of Freedom. Sister, thank you very much for joining us tonight on this very important night in your life.
I saw that moment once that medal was around your neck when your hand couldn`t resist and had to go up to feel that it was real.
SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL, NUNS ON THE BUS: Absolutely. I was so stunned. It was such a dear moment of being honored but also disbelief that the work that we do every day that just seems natural could receive such recognition was a humbling honor.
And it wasn`t just me. It was all my sisters around the country who are being honored in the process. It was stunning.
O`DONNELL: I know, you and I know many nuns and I know that there is no nun who has ever entered service in the hope of getting a medal of any kind. And so it was really something to see today.
You know, I was there once. I was there in 2011 with Bill Russell when Bill Russell, former Boston Celtics great, when President Obama had to reach out to get that medal around his neck.
I have to say he was uncharacteristically kind of speechless afterwards. How long did it take you after the fact to be able to put a sentence together?
CAMPBELL: Well, I`m not sure I have arrived at the moment where I can put a sentence together yet. I think of the level of disbelief really comes from who I was with on that stage. I mean It was so awesome to be with Mr. Gray (ph) who had represented the civil rights folks.
And to be — I think I sat next to Simone Biles, who, this young gymnast but who was so strong and powerful in her claim of mental health and her own needs. It was just — as you could tell I`m still speechless. But it was such an honor to be with them.
O`DONNELL: You have forsaken material goods in this life that you have chosen. What would you say to people about what they should value? Especially young people who are beginning their careers?
CAMPBELL: To value deeply having time in your lives to listen deeply to what is needed and to respond to those needs, as opposed to what can I get out of it or you know, thinking that I have one direct path.
I never thought of this as a path to the Medal of Freedom. It`s like how do you do that? But to listen and respond to the needs around us, to the cries that we hear. And everyone hears cries in different ways, so listen and then respond. That`s where the hope of our nation is, it`s that we can do this. It is possible.
[22:54:57]
O`DONNELL: Sister Simone Campbell, thank you for joining us really on this important night. Thank you for your service. Thank you for everything you did to earn that medal.
CAMPBELL: Thank you Lawrence. An honor to be with you. Thanks for this opportunity.
O`DONNELL: Thank you very much.
We`ll be right back.
[22:55:17]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree, Sister Simone Campbell, gets tonight`s LAST WORD.
“THE 11TH HOUR WITH STEPHANIE RUHLE” starts now.