Updated
Summary
The right to travel within the United States of America has never been debated on the floor of the United States Senate until now. The very definition of a free country includes free, full freedom of movement within that country and Republicans now oppose that. The families of the children and teachers murdered at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas are speaking out, after the release of the video from inside the school that showed police not taking any action against the murderer for 77 minutes. Secret Service erased January 6 texts after IG asked them to save them. Judge orders stay after Senator Lindsey Graham moves to block subpoena from Georgia grand jury.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Thank you, Mehdi. And we will be watching and we`ll be watching Sunday night.
MEHDI HASAN, MSNBC HOST: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: Thank you, Mehdi. I appreciate it.
Well, the breaking news of the night, the news is that the Secret Service has destroyed evidence that is essential to the investigation of the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Let me repeat that. Yes, the Secret Service has deliberately destroyed evidence involving the January 6th attack on the Capitol. That was revealed by the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, which has jurisdiction over the Secret Service.
The most important Secret Service text messages since the invention of text messaging were deliberately erased by the Secret Service, according to the inspector general, the most important text message in the history of the Secret Service. We don`t know if any of the text messages sent to and from Vice President Mike Pence and Secret Service detail survived the deliberate erasure by the Secret Service.
Those text messages could show attempts by the Secret Service to move Mike Pence away from the Capitol against his will. Those text messages could conceivably show Donald Trump ordering the Secret Service to remove Mike Pence from the Capitol during the attack on the Capitol, so that Mike Pence would not be able to continue to participate in the certifications of the Electoral College vote.
The Secret Service text messages on January 6th are the most important text messages Secret Service agents have ever sent or received on their phones. The most important ever, and now, they might all be erased. Why? Who would the Secret Service be protecting in a racing, all of that crucial evidence.
Inspector General Joseph Conferee, discovered the text messages were erased, only after he asked the Secret Service for those text messages, and the actual erasure occurred after he asked for them. The inspector general is so concerned about this development that he wrote a letter yesterday to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security into the House Committee on Homeland Security, saying, I am writing to offer a briefing regarding ongoing records access issues that we`ve been experiencing with the Department of Homeland Security.
The department notified us that many U.S. Secret Service text messages from January 5th and 6th, 2021, were erased as part of a device replacement program. The United States Secret Service erased those text messages, after the office of inspector general requested the records of electronic communications from the United States Secret Service, as part of our evaluation of events at the Capitol on January 6th.
The inspector general puts the word after and italics, because it`s so deeply shocking to him, that records requested by the inspector general would be destroyed, after the inspector general requested those records.
The chairman of the January 6 committee, Bennie Thompson, received that letter from the inspector general in his permanent capacity, as the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee for the House of Representatives. When the inspector general eventually does brief Bennie Thompson about what he knows about the Secret Service erasing text messages that could send — that might send the January 6th committee investigation into a new direction.
Tonight, Bennie Thompson told “The New York Times”, quote, it`s concerning. It`s important for us to get as much information — about how this discrepancy occurred. A spokesman for the Secret Service said, quote, we take stronger issue with these categorically false claims, and I will be responding in detail shortly.
There is no reason at all why the Secret Service couldn`t have responded, fully and completely tonight. The Secret Service has known for a very long time that the inspector general has been asking for these text messages. A Secret Service has known for apparently, well over a year, that they deleted — deliberately deleted those text messages.
The Secret Service also knows those are the most important text messages anyone at the Secret Service has ever sent or received, or deleted.
[22:05:09]
The Secret Service spokesman, giving that strangely combat of public statements tonight, is an echo of the gross lack of professionalism described by the inspector general in his letter about the Secret Service. As of tonight, the Secret Service is asking Americans to believe that after January 6th, the Secret Service decided, it was time to issue new cell phones, to every agent who was working in Washington on January 5th and 6th, trying to update them, new equipment. And time to lose the information on the most important cell phones that the Secret Service has ever possessed, the phones that they were using on January 5th, and January 6th.
And the Secret Service spokesperson tonight says that the inspector general is not telling the truth about this. Letters like this, from inspectors general, are rare, and they are important. It was a letter like this, exactly like this, from an inspector general to the intelligence committees that began the first impeachment of Donald Trump. That is where the inspector general informed the committees that there was a whistleblower report about a phone call made by the president of the United States to President Zelenskyy. That is how it all began.
This letter tonight, about the Secret Service, is a description, as it stands tonight, of the Secret Service out of control, out of control on January 5th, January 6th, and afterward, when the Secret Service decided, willfully, to destroy evidence, important evidence, about the January 6th attack on the Capitol.
“The Wall Street Journal” is reporting, Representative Adam Kinzinger, the panel member who will be leading some of the questioning at next Thursday`s primetime hearing, said in an interview ahead of a meeting Thursday, that the panel could decide to request a written interview with Mr. Pence. The committee could also discuss whether to issue a subpoena to the former vice president, to try to compel him to testify. The committee is also weighing whether it will ask Mr. Trump to testify.
For the second time this week, a federal judge has denied a request from Steve Bannon, to delay the start of his trial, for a criminal contempt of Congress defying a subpoena by the January 6th committee. Yesterday, Bannon`s lawyers requested a way of the trial, which is scheduled to begin on Monday, claiming that references to Bannon during Tuesday`s, January 6th hearing, great a risk of prejudice by potential jury members.
In their filing, Bannon`s lawyers wrote, Mr. Bannon has been repeatedly portrayed in them, and in most negative and inflammatory ways along with his featured and promoted one hour special report documentary on CNN devoted entirely to Mr. Bannon, scheduled to run twice on the night before the trial is scheduled to begin.
Here is what was said about Steve Bannon at Tuesday`s hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): The committee has learned from the White House phone logs that the president spoke to Steve Bannon, his close adviser, at least twice on January 5th. The first conversation they had lasted for 11 minutes. Listen to what Mr. Bannon said that day, after that first call he had with the president.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP AIDE: All hell is going to break loose tomorrow! All converging, and now, as I say, the point of attack, right? The point of attack, tomorrow.
I`ll tell you this, it`s not going to happen like you think it`s going to happen, okay? It`s going to be quite extraordinarily different, and all I can say is, strap in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Judge Carl Nichols who was appointed by Donald Trump denied Steve Bannon`s request for the delay once again, saying, quote: We`re still going to be at trial on Monday. I have every intention of getting a jury. There is going to be appropriate, fair, and unbiased.
And we now have a response, and additional response from the Secret Service tonight. I`m going to have to just read it to you, live as I`ve received here.
It says: The insinuation that the Secret Service, maliciously, deleted text messages, following a request, is false. In fact, the Secret Service has been fully cooperating with Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General, in every respect, whether it be interviews, documents, emails, or texts.
[22:10:03]
First, in January 2021, before any inspection was open by the office of inspector general on this subject, the Secret Service began to reset its mobile phones, to factory settings, as part of a preplanned, three-month system migration. In that process, data resident on some phones was lost. The Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General requested a chronic obligations for the first time on February 26th, 2021, after the migration was well underway. The Secret Service notified the inspector general of the loss, certain phones, and confirmed to the inspector general that none of the texts it was seeking had been lost in the migration.
Second, the inspector general`s allegation regarding the Department of Homeland Security`s cooperation with this investigation is neither correct nor new. To the contrary, the inspector general has previously alleged that its employees were not granted appropriate and timely access to materials, due to attorney review. The Department of Homeland Security debunked this allegation, including, and response to the inspector general`s last two semiannual reports to Congress.
That inspector general`s letter says that, that they`ve also been issues with lawyers, with the department personnel, who repeatedly told the inspector general that they were not permitted to provide records directly to the inspector general, and that such records had to first undergo review by the Department of Homeland Security attorneys. This review led two weeks-long delay, and the inspector general obtaining records, and created confusion over whether all records have been produced.
Joining us now is Glenn Kirschner. He`s a former federal prosecutor, and an MSNBC legal analyst.
And, Glenn, I am struck in the Secret Services` lengthy your response tonight when they say that in January 2021, before the inspector general opened his investigation, they decided to replace all these phones. They made that decision, after January 6th, after January 6th, the techies at the Secret Service decided, you know what? It`s time to upgrade. Who cares? That some of these phones might have some of the most important evidence that Secret Service phones have ever had on them.
This is something where we have to be learning a lot more about. What is your reaction to what we are, what we`ve got so far, from the inspector general, and the Secret Service?
GLENN KIRSCHNER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, my reaction, as a former career federal law enforcement employee is, it makes me heartsick that, you know, the Secret Service wouldn`t realize the importance, the historic importance of preserving these kinds of text messages.
I will say, Lawrence, when I first carried the reporting before your update, you know, I was asking myself, will they deleted January 5th and January 6th text messages become the modern day equivalent of 18 missing minutes from the Watergate tapes? But what this feels like is more of what we have been experiencing, you know, not just since January 6th, but for the entirety of Donald Trump`s reign.
And it feels like we are a nation, just adrift, in a sea of unaddressed lawlessness. And now, what should happen is the Department of Justice should already be up and running with a robust investigation. And as we speak, Lawrence, there should be FBI agents, digging into these dueling allegations of missing text messages being, you know, the product of some nefarious attempt to get rid of evidence, versus some ordinary housecleaning, which, again, doesn`t make a lot of sense, to me.
O`DONNELL: The — to go back to the Secret Service is longer reply tonight, I just want to read this line again, because it is just so stunning. The Secret Service began to reset its mobile phones to factory settings, as part of a preplanned three-month system migration. In that process, some of the data was lost.
So, Glenn, they`ve got a preplanned techie update for the phones. That`s fine. That`s perfectly okay.
As of January 5th, that`s perfectly okay. By 2:00 p.m. on January 6th, everybody at the Secret Service should have known no one`s, touching any of those phones, cancel your preplanned techie update of the phones.
[22:15:10]
KIRSCHNER: It`s beyond credulity that they did not know the evidentiary value, and importance of those text messages, as January 6th was unfolding. I`ve worked cases with the Secret Service uniform division. I know how sharp the officers are. This smells bad.
You know, it`s like saying, well, there was a murder in a particular house, but you know what? That house was scheduled to be cleaned the next day. So, we ignored all the evidence, and we went ahead, and we cleaned out the house. None of this makes a lot of sense.
O`DONNELL: Glenn Kirschner, thank you very much for joining us tonight on this breaking news.
Also joining us now is Democratic Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York. He`s the chair of the House Democratic Caucus and was an impeachment manager for the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump.
Congressman Jeffries, this is of the most disturbing letter from an inspector general, since the inspector general letter that started what became the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): That`s correct. It`s very disturbing set of developments that we need to figure out whether this was just basic incompetence, within and of itself, as you pointed out, Lawrence, it`s stunning. Given the magnitude of events that occurred on January 6th, or was this part of an effort to delete information that people at the Secret Service should have known, and would be incredibly relevant for the American people, as part of the effort to figure out what occurred during the insurrection.
O`DONNELL: And the inspector general`s letter says, the Secret Service has been uncooperative. They`ve been — they have created a procedure for the delivery of documents that is confusing, and leaves open the possibility that some documents and evidence isn`t being delivered at all. That is something that the inspector general will brief the committees on, and the committees will be able to ask questions about that.
The Secret Service, in their letter, insisting, oh, no, we are in full compliance. Everything that the inspector general asks for, we hand over immediately.
JEFFRIES: Well, someone is not telling the truth here, and I found, generally, that inspector generals have conducted themselves with integrity, and with thoroughness. I also have great respect for the Secret Service, as an agency. But something was very wrong here in the decision- making process. And hopefully, it wasn`t part of an effort to cover-up information that would expose or embarrass, or implicate even criminally individuals connected to January 6.
But that`s going to be the job of the relevant committees of jurisdictions of the United States House of Representatives and Senate, to present the truth, uncover it, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to the American people. And the consequences should follow from there.
O`DONNELL: It`s one of those moments where Bennie Thompson`s permanent position as the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, which has jurisdiction over the Secret Service, intersects with his temporary position as the chairman of the Select Committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol, and more.
How do you expect the January 6th committee to react to this news tonight, from the Secret Service? They actually got this letter, Bennie Thompson got this letter yesterday from the Secret Service inspector general.
So, the Secret Service has had plenty of time to come up with a more thorough response than it has come up with tonight.
JEFFRIES: Well, Chairman Bennie Thompson has done an extraordinary job, leading the January 6th committee. And one of the reasons why Speaker Pelosi appointed him as the chair this because of the incredible track record he has had in sharing the Homeland Security Committee. So as you pointed out, this is an interesting point of interest section. I would expect the committee would just continue to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the Constitution, uncover the truth, present it to the American people, in a compelling way that they`ve been doing so far.
O`DONNELL: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, thank you very much for joining us on this breaking news tonight. Really appreciate it.
JEFFRIES: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
And coming up, Lindsey Graham has a date in court next week, in federal court, fighting a subpoena from the district attorney, Fani Willis, in Fulton County, Georgia. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:24:25]
O`DONNELL: Senator Lindsey Graham is asking a federal judge in South Carolina to block the subpoena for his grand jury testimony in Georgia, through a Fulton County investigating the presidential election. District Attorney Fani Willis and Senator Graham`s lawyer will argue the case next week on Wednesday, in federal court, in South Carolina.
Senator Graham is insisting that his status as the United States senator makes him immune from such a subpoena, because calling the Georgia secretary of state to discuss the vote counting there from the presidential election was when he calls part of his normal duties as a United States senator.
[22:25:03]
Senator Graham`s brief to the court does not mention one other time in Senator Graham`s decades in the House and Senate, not one other time that he has called secretary of state in another state, to ask about the vote count in the presidential election, or any other election.
Joining us now is Gwen Keyes Fleming, former district attorney for DeKalb County, Georgia.
Thank you for joining us tonight. You have experience in these kinds of interstate subpoena cases, what does this look like to you so far?
GWEN KEYES FLEMING, FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR DEKALB COUNTY, GEORGIA: Well, I think you are seeing it play out as it has done before. The material witness subpoena has then delivered to a senior judge, where a member of the Supreme Court and South Carolina. Senator Graham has opted to challenge that, asserting that he is protected by the speech and debate clause. I think what you will see next is written documentation from the D.A.`s team, Fani Willis`s team, arguing that he is not protected by the speech and debate clause for various reasons.
Some of those reasons include a Supreme Court case, right on point, indicating that where there are third-party crimes that are being investigated by a grand jury. The protections do not apply, especially when the testimony would not be about the legislative act.
She could also assert that it is a rules committee. And the Senate looks at elections, and while the judiciary committee has looked at things in terms of protecting voting rights, and having hearings unprotected voting rights, the substance of the conversation, at least at his has been described by Mr. Raffensperger, the substance of the conversation went to looking for ways to throw out votes.
And so, again, the fact that there is a discrepancy — differences of opinion on how that conversation went, that would be a third reason. The da could assert in terms of the grand jury just having questions that they want answered. And be able to hear from the senator himself, to give his own view in front of them, not just in the public realm.
O`DONNELL: Senator Graham`s lawyers say in their filing that Senator Graham did not inject himself into Georgia`s electoral process, and never tried to alter the outcome of any election, the conversation about absentee ballots in Georgia`s procedures.
Let`s assume for a moment that that is roughly accurate. That would leave, for me, as a grand juror, a question to the senator. Did anybody ask you to make this phone call? Did Donald Trump ask you to make this phone call?
FLEMING: That`s another point, that there are things beyond this phone call that the D.A. and her special grand jury are looking into. All of those things (INAUDIBLE) I believe she is already said (INAUDIBLE) and so, I anticipate that she and her team will bring those points, and the response mentioned (INAUDIBLE).
O`DONNELL: Gwen Keyes Fleming, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. Really appreciate it.
FLEMING: Thank you for having me.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
And coming up, empowered by the Republican Supreme Court, Republicans are now threatening the freedom to travel, the right to travel within the United States. Senator Amy Klobuchar joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:33:34]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t believe we`re even having this conversation on the floor of the United States Senate. I can`t believe it.
But that`s the America we live in now, because this Supreme Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: The right to travel within the United States of America has never been debated on the floor of the United States Senate until now. The very definition of a free country includes free, full freedom of movement within that country and Republicans now oppose that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Does that child in the womb have the right to travel, in their future?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: That was Republican Senator James Lankford, blocking a vote today on the Senate floor, guaranteeing freedom of travel within the United States of America, something that the Senate has never felt compelled to write into law before, because it has always been presumed to be the textbook example of an unenumerated right, granted by the United States Constitution, to everyone in the United States, including tourists from other countries once they`re in the United States.
[22:34:53]
O`DONNELL: Republicans in some states are not content to outlaw abortion within their states, and want to make it illegal for women to travel from their states to the free states of America, where women still have all the constitutional rights they had before the Republican Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. It is of course grotesquely unconstitutional for a state to make it a crime to leave that state for any purpose. But with the Supreme Court created by the Bush family presidents, and Donald Trump, nothing in the constitution can be taken for granted, not anymore.
so, Senate Democrats tried to write the right to travel into law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): In Montana, clinics have already begun requiring proof of residency for women seeking abortion Pills, because they`re afraid there might be pursued by out of state prosecutors.
Of course, we should never settle for a situation where women in Minnesota have different rights than women in Missouri, or when women in Illinois have different rights than women in Texas.
But with so many extreme Republicans racing to state capitals to be the first to take away women`s rights, it`s clear we must explicitly protect the right to travel to other states to access reproductive care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator, I have to say, I share that feeling of — it`s just hard to believe that this was actually discussed on the Senate floor, and then, and then, blocked, blocked on the Senate floor by Republicans who no longer believe in the right to travel.
KLOBUCHAR: Exactly, Lawrence. And my friend, Catherine Cortez-Masto is leading this bill. And the reason we believe it`s so important is that one, we need to codify Roe v Wade into law and, I think you know until we get to the election, and have those Democratic senators, that`s not going to happen.
But what we can do now, what we can do now is at least guaranteeing women the rights to travel to states that may allow for reproductive services.
Look at what just happened. We had a ten year old get raped in Ohio, and then had to go to Indiana to get an abortion. That is what we are seeing, this patchwork of laws across the country.
And so, we really have actual proof that they are doing this. In Missouri, they introduced a bill that said you could sue private citizens, who would help people to travel to another state, to get reproductive services. In Texas, the preparing a law to go after companies, criminally, that would provide resources to women or girls, that want to go to other states to get reproductive services.
That`s what we are dealing with right now, and it has been only 20 days, only 20 days since the Dobbs decision. And so far, over 20 states have been banning abortion. That`s what we are dealing with, and we`re going to have over half the states, when this is done.
And that`s why, I just keep focusing on doing everything we can do now, pushing the envelope, and then, pushing towards the election to change this.
O`DONNELL: Senator, it doesn`t feel like that long time ago, you know, or maybe it does now, because time is moving so differently, that you and I, or law students around the country, and in law school classrooms could sit around, and come up with theoretical cases that you could be absolutely sure would be nine to nothing votes in the Supreme Court, nine to nothing on, of course, the constitutional right to travel, and no state has the authority to ask any questions about why you are traveling to or from another state. That would be a nine to nothing decision by the Supreme Court, but I don`t know anymore. I just don`t know.
KLOBUCHAR: And I think what we`ve seen was a plan for a very long time, to put these justices on the court. And you know, from you and I, we`ve gone many times during these confirmation hearings, talking about how extreme these nominees were. And now, we are seeing it put into action.
So, when one branch of the government gets that out of whack, our framers set up our form of government, so another branch can step in. And that`s what this upcoming election is about. I also think that you`ve seen — you`re going to start seeing one by one, these horrific stories, like the one I just brought up.
[22:39:48]
KLOBUCHAR: When that story first came out, all these people were saying, that`s not really true. Well now, we saw it in black and white. A horrible, horrible act occurred, a rape. It is in a complaint filed in Ohio that clearly say that this little girl, not only was raped, but got pregnant.
And to think that the law in these states now says that that little girl, that her family, can`t make that decision about whether or not she would carry a baby of a rapist, but instead the politicians have decided that she would have to, and her only recourse is to go to another state. And now, we have some states that are even threatening to limit the right to go to other states.
That`s why we had that vote today. And sadly, while we may have had a debate on the floor, we were not able to actually debate the vote, and go to a vote. And really, call our colleagues out on this to show where they stand.
O`DONNELL: Well, if you got to a vote — by the way, that is the technique, right? That is what Senator Lankford`s job was to stand up there, as a Republican from Oklahoma, and block this coming to a vote, specifically so you couldn`t have a recorded vote with Republican senators` names on it, voting against the right to travel in America. And so that those Republican senators wouldn`t have that liability in a reelection campaign.
KLOBUCHAR: Exactly. We just saw unanimous consent to move to that bill, to get a vote, and to actually have a vote on this. And we never got one. And our colleagues blocked this from going forward.
And I think you`re going to see this happen, over and over again. And we are not going to give up, Lawrence. And I think it`s also important to note, when you see the actions of the attorney general, Republican attorney general of Texas today, who was actually trying to stop the Biden administration`s effort to say, well, at least, this one federal law says, that you`ve got a guarantee a woman`s right to have an abortion, if her fairly life depends on it, and she might die as an emergency procedure.
And now, he`s trying to stop that. So it just illustrates how this isn`t, yes it`s about the U.S. Senate. But it`s also about the House, and it`s about governors` races. It`s about attorney generals races. It is about legislatures across the country that are passing these kinds of bills. And it is really important to see it, from the every, every level of government.
If we`re going to protect women`s reproductive right, and guarantee that, you know, my daughter doesn`t have less rights than me or her grandma.
O`DONNELL: And the Republicans who have been arguing for this for years, in the Senate, almost all of them, expecting the state to never come, and kind of hoping it would never come, so they wouldn`t have to actually live with the results of what they`ve been advocating.
They`ve all been pretending that those ten year old girls don`t exist, and they`ve been pretending that for 50 years.
KLOBUCHAR: You know, I was thinking about that today, because my former job, as a prosecutor, you know, we would see these cases. These horrific child rape cases, and 12 year olds, 13-year-olds, 14 year olds. And so, this is sadly not going to be the last case like this.
Now, would there ever been that discussion about what happened, and if the girl got pregnant? Not as much in many states, because the doctors just took care of it. The family was there.
But in this case, you are going to have these little kids, having to travel to other states, on top of the trauma they`ve already experienced. So, I just think it`s, you`re exactly right. People are trying to pretend this is not happening. They say things so that you don`t think it`s real, but we`re going to find out pretty quickly just how real this is.
And one thing I disagree, I think many of our colleagues did know how they would vote. Not for all of them, but for many of them. It was very clear where these justices, where they were going to head, no matter what they said at these hearings, when you look at their backgrounds, I think that there was always and that`s why I ask the justices about this hearing after hearing, how they construe the law.
And by the way, not just when it comes to a woman`s reproductive health on the environment, on voting and the like. And this was the plan and this is what we got now. And we must do everything we can to change it.
O`DONNELL: Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you very much for joining us again tonight.
KLOBUCHAR: It`s great to be on. Thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you. And coming up, the families of the children and teachers murdered at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas are speaking out, after the release of the video from inside the school that showed police not taking any action against the murderer for 77 minutes. You will hear what some of those families had to say about that.
[22:44:45]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANA RODRIGUEZ, DUAGHTER KILLED IN UVALDE MASS SHOOTING: There is a video now out there in the world floating around on the Internet for the remainder of my days and my children`s days of their sister`s last moments.
They failed our community, and they failed our kids. Our kids and our teachers paid the price for their failure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Our next guest reports several relatives of victims said they were glad that the video came out, so that officials could no longer hide behind their own version of events.
[22:49:52]
O`DONNELL: Edgar Sandoval has been covering the aftermath of the mass murder at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas in detail for the “New York Times”. The “Times” reported that there was a plan to release the video of what happened inside the school for 77 minutes before police confronted the mass murderer and killed him.
There was a plan to show that video from inside the school this coming Sunday to family members of the children and teachers who were killed along with the presentation of an investigative report by a special committee of the Texas House of Representatives. That was the plan.
But the Austin American-Statesman whose coverage of the mass murder has been exemplary and relentless obtained the video and decided to post it online on Tuesday.
Edgar Sandoval reports on what happened next for people in Uvalde, if you get news alerts from the Austin American Statesman on their phones. Quote, “A link to the Austin newspaper`s article about the video appeared on Jesus Riso`s (ph) phone Tuesday afternoon.
Mr. Riso, who is the uncle of one of the victims Jacqueline Casarez started to click the link when his phone rang. Whatever you do, don`t look at the video, he recalled another relative telling him. Mr. Riso immediately tried to warn other family members. “It was hurtful to think a video was out and they were not ready for it,” he said. “I just can`t believe that it was rolled out like that,” he added. “I think that they need to see the video, but they needed to be warned first.”
Still, he said he was glad it provided some clarity amid the shifting narratives and finger pointing between agencies. As he watched the images of officers rushing into the school hallway and then retreating, Mr. Riso said he fought his urge to yell, why aren`t they going in? What`s taking so long?
Joining us now is Edgar Sandoval, a reporter for the “New York Times. Tell us about how this video landed in Uvalde when it emerged on Tuesday. It certainly was a powerful experience for anyone who saw it, but people in Uvalde had a unique responses to that video.
EDGAR SANDOVAL, NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you for having me, Lawrence. Yes, that`s correct. A lot of the family members were working themselves up and giving up for the presentation on Sunday. And so when the video was unexpectedly leaked on Tuesday, they were not ready for it. And they had to warn each other that the link was coming, and the video was finally released.
At the same time, like you mentioned, the family has been asking so many questions from day one that some of them feel relieved that they could at least finally see what happened in the hallway that day. And they could ask more questions.
O`DONNELL: And you know, the truth of the video, as you and I know, is that most of the video is a moving version of images that we have seen before, just one end of the hallway looking down there.
It`s the beginning of it that is so atrocious when the murders actually happen, and you see the murderer walking through the hallways of the classroom. And that part of it, and really all of it, you know, for family members is something that I just cannot imagine what it is like for them. I assume there are family members who are never going to look at that video, and others who have taken careful looks at it.
SANDOVAL: I think that is correct. I was on a city council meeting recently, when the video was released. Some of the people at the meeting started to describe the video, and some family members just basically yelled out and said, please don`t describe the video. I have not seen it. I don`t plan to see it.
So I think for some family members, it`s just not an option. And for other ones, it did not reveal anything new. But it just showed what they have heard and read for the past several weeks. And these are very visceral reactions. It just also raise more questions.
The families want to know why the delay took so long. And most importantly, they want to know who ordered the delay. Who is behind the decision not to answer the classroom after the initial exchange of gunfire.
O`DONNELL: And one thing you and I both know from the video is there is no answer to those questions on that video.
SANDOVAL: That`s right. And the families are hoping that on Sunday, the legislative investigative committee can ask some of those questions. I think that what`s really hurting them at this point, that they don`t know who gave the order, why that order was given. And they want to — someone to take action against some of the officers and the decision makers.
[22:54:58]
O`DONNELL: Edgar Sandoval, thank you very for joining us tonight, and thank you very much for your ongoing reporting from Uvalde, which has been an invaluable guide for us. We really appreciate it.
SANDOVAL: Thank you for having me, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Tonight`s LAST WORD is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Today marks two months since a white supremacist mass murderer murdered ten black people with an AR-15 at a supermarket in Buffalo. Today, a federal grand jury indicted the 19-year-old on 27 charges including hate crimes and weapons offenses.
[22:59:54]
O`DONNELL: The suspect previously pleaded not guilty to state criminal charges, including ten first degree murder charges and three attempted murder charges.
The memorial service attended by New York Attorney General Tish James was held today at the Tops Supermarket, which is scheduled to be re-open for business for the first time since the mass murder tomorrow.
That is tonight`s LAST WORD.
“THE 11TH HOUR WITH STEPHANIE RUHLE” starts now.