Updated
Summary
Kansans voted overwhelmingly to protect the right to an abortion. Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN).
Transcript
MEHDI HASAN, MSNBC HOST: That is ALL IN on this Wednesday night.
“MSNBC PRIME” starts right now with Ali Velshi.
Good evening, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: Mehdi, thank you.
That was great conversation. I`m kind of fascinated. You and I both come from places where there is universal health care. There`s 15 models for doing this around the world, there 60 developed countries that do it. And in 2022, we`re still arguing and how to get this done in the United States. It should be a slam dunk but it`s not.
HASAN: It`s absolutely crazy as you say, Ali. Those who live abroad know what an outlier the U.S. is.
VELSHI: It`s very unusual. But thanks for the discussion, my friend. You have yourself a great night.
And thanks to you at home for joining us at this hour.
That was the scene in Kansas after resounding victory for abortion rights at the polls. Kansans voted overwhelmingly to protect the right to an abortion in the Kansas constitution. Not only was the result surprising, in a state as conservative as Kansas but, the margin wasn`t even close.
Kansas voters rejected the anti-abortion measure by nearly 20 points and what`s remarkable about the outcome is that Kansas Republicans did everything they possibly could to stack the deck in their favor. For starters, they scheduled the vote during a typically low turnout August primary instead of during the general election in November, because yesterday`s primary focused mostly Republican candidates running against each other and therefore would presumably attract mostly Republican voters.
They made the language of the ballot measures so dense and confusing that the normal person would be hard-pressed to decipher at first glance what`s a yes or a no vote even meant. Republican groups even blasted out a barrage of misleading text messages to Kansas voters the day before the vote that made it sound like voting yes would protect a woman`s right to choose when in fact the opposite is true.
But despite all those obstacles, voter turnout was massive, far from the usual trickle of voters for an August primary in a midterm here. Turnout approached nearly presidential levels. And the votes to defeat the antiabortion measure didn`t just come from the urban and suburban counties where most of the states Democrats live.
Many rural, solidly Republican counties also voted no, or they voted yes by incredibly slim margins. This vote in Kansas is sending shockwaves across the country for a number of reasons. For one thing, this is the first time abortion rights have been directly on the ballot since the Supreme Court covered — since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, and the outcome would seem touches suggest that the backlash to that ruling and two Republican efforts in its wake to restrict or ban abortion is real and it is very strong.
Also, this happened in a very red state. Donald Trump won Kansas by 15 points less than two years ago. Sure, Kansas does sometimes elect moderate Democratic governors but they haven`t voted for a Democrat for president since Lyndon Johnson. I haven`t elected a Democratic senator since 1932.
There is one elected Democratic official and its entire congressional delegation. But it`s not just any red state, it is Kansas which has been a national flash point over abortion rights since at least 1991 when antiabortion activists from all over the country descended on the state and blocked access to abortion clinics for weeks and what they call the summer of mercy.
An abortion provider Dr. George Tiller was murdered by an antiabortion activist in his church in Wichita in 2009. The church where he was murdered by the way was yesterday polling place.
But the main reason that this resounding abortion rights victory in Kansas is resonating nationwide is that abortion will be on the ballot and lots and lots and lots of races this November, because Republicans keep nominating candidates with really extreme views on the subject.
Last night, Republicans in Michigan chose this woman, Tudor Dixon, to be their nominee for governor in November. She supports a total ban on abortion with an exceptionally for the life of the mother, no exceptions for rape or incest. In fact, this was her on a podcast a couple of weeks ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOST: The question would be like 14 year old who let`s say is a victim of abuse by an uncle.
TUDOR DIXON (R), MICHIGAN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, perfect example.
(CROSSTALK)
HOST: But I will listen to yes or no.
[21:05:02]
DIXON: Because I know people who are the product — a life is a life for me. That`s how it is. That is for me. That`s my feeling.
HOST: Yes, you`ve heard no exception.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: No exception. The Republican nominee for governor of Michigan, they`re calling the scenario in which a 14-year-old raped by her uncle and impregnated called, quote, a perfect example, end quote, of when a girl should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term.
In Missouri, the guy who just won the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate is currently the state`s attorney general. He proudly became first AG in the nation to officially outlaw abortion in his state the moment Roe v. Wade was overturned. But not content to simply ban abortions in his own jurisdiction, he`s since been working on preventing Missouri women`s from getting abortions in other states.
Let`s go to Arizona. The Republican primary for governor still to close to call, but at the moment, Kari Lake is leading Karrin Taylor Robson by just over 11,000 votes. Both women support abortion bans. The Robson campaign says supports exceptions for rape and incest. Kari Lake says she wants to ban abortion pills, medication abortion, the method by which more than half of abortions in the United States are now performed.
Meanwhile, in the Arizona Senate race, the Republicans have nominated this man, Blake Masters, Trump supported. He not only supports a nationwide abortion ban be eased on his website that state should be able to ban contraception. He has since removed a particular item from his website probably because if abortion restrictions are as an unpopular as they are even red state Kansas, you can just imagine how they would be on contraception.
In fact we have some brand-new polling data out of Arizona that suggest the kind of impact the Republicans and the extreme abortion politics could have on races well beyond Kansas. This is done by the activist group Invisible working with YouGov. When they asked Arizona voters, would you rather vote for a Democrat or Republican for Congress? That`s the so-called generic ballot questions, Arizonans chose Republicans five-point margin.
But when the pollsters presented pollster voters with two hypothetical candidates, one, a Democrat who supports abortion rights, and a Republican who supports an abortion ban, look at the massive shift in Arizona. The Democratic candidate jumps out to a 33-point lead, 19 percent of Republican voters say they would prefer the pro-abortion rights Democrat in that scenario.
And those trends may be starting to show up nationwide. A new Monmouth Poll out today shows Democrats of the seven-point lead on the congressional generic ballot. That`s the biggest lead Democrats event all year. Lights up slow and steady gains the Democrats have been showing in other polls in recent weeks.
But if Democrats want to capitalize on these general trends, if they want to turn widespread opposition to abortion bans into electoral victories for their candidates, they may want to start taking a closer look at what happened in Kansas yesterday and how it happened. Let`s do that now.
Joining us is Rachel Sweet, campaign manager for the no campaign which triumphed last night in Kansas.
Ms. Sweet, thank you for joining us. Thanks for the time tonight, and congratulations on your victory.
RACHEL SWEET, KANSANS FOR CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOM CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Thank you and thank you so much for having me.
VELSHI: I know you went into your campaign, into yesterday`s vote projecting confidence, but were you surprised by the size of that victory and huge turnout that you had?
SWEET: Absolutely. I do not think any of the folks working on this campaign we`re anticipating the turnout or the huge margin by which we were able to be successful last night. As you mentioned earlier, we know that the supporters of this constitutional amendment intentionally placed it on a primary ballot where we historically have lower turnout. They wanted to pick their voters instead of letting all Kansans having a voice.
But instead, the voters of Kansas decisively said they will not support extreme restrictions on abortion in our state.
VELSHI: Your win interestingly enough as Steve Kornacki and I were watching it happen last night, it didn`t just happen from the obvious places, a handful of blue counties in Kansas that are clustered around urban centers. You got a lot of votes from rural counties that voted overwhelmingly for Trump in 2020. In some of those counties, your side, the no side prevailed, in some it didn`t, but it prevailed by a whole lot less than you would`ve expected.
Tell me about this, because the fact is you weren`t going to win this referendum without getting votes from Republicans.
So what did you do to reach them?
[21:10:00]
SWEET: Absolutely. You cannot win a statewide election by 59 percent by only talking to Democrats.
We know that abortion rights and the right to personal autonomy and right to personal freedom is a popular issue across the political spectrum. We were very intentional about starting first and foremost with who are the voters who can be motivated by this issue and how do we communicate with them. We approached this last from a position of a partisan angle about really about what are the values that Kansans hold around not only abortion but what it means to be a Kansan, around personal autonomy, around individual liberty and freedom, and that was our starting point.
And then partisanship was honestly a star secondary factor. We knew we had to develop messages and strategies that really cut across the political spectrum and that is everything from the way that we communicated with voters on television and digital ads to the field program that we were running by talking to voters really across the state. We had a very successful partner-driven field operation where we built a broad coalition of grassroots organizations that were already doing a work.
It wasn`t just your traditional partners on reproductive rights issues. We, of course, had support from Planned Parenthood and trust women and other abortion providers in the state, but we also had Catholics for Choice, we had the League of Women voters. We had mainstream coalition which is an organization in Johnson County, Kansas, Kansas city suburbs that traditionally works with moderate Republicans.
So we built a really strong coalition that we could tap into the advocacy and the organizations that already existed in the state and are already trusted and are talking to the voters that we need to reach.
VELSHI: What a remarkable description of how these things might work in 2020.
Thank you for the detail that you brought to this specific. I think there are a lot of people who may not be paying attention to Kansas two nights ago who are sitting there saying, what on earth did you in Kansas, but it really did shake the earth last night.
Rachel, we appreciate your time tonight. Rachel Sweet is the campaign manager for the no campaign has successfully blocked and antiabortion measure in Kansas yesterday. Thank you so much for joining us.
SWEET: Thank you for having me.
VELSHI: We turn out to Laphonza Butler, president of Emily`s List, which works to elect Democratic pro-choice women to office.
Ms. Butler, thank you so much for being with us tonight.
I want to start by getting your reaction to what happened in Kansas last night. Often when you talk to people who are on the winning side of something they tell you they knew it all along. I`ve spoken to a lot of people in Kansas who said we were hoping it was going to happen, but we weren`t really expecting the blow at that we got in this referendum.
LAPHONZA BUTLER, EMILY`S LIST PRESIDENT: Thanks a lot for having me, Ali. I won`t be one of those folks. It was just an inspiring victory that the country saw last night that Kansas really sent a clear message. The work that Ms. Sweet just described the work that didn`t just start the week before, these are organizations who have been at this for months.
And I was not someone who is sitting at home last night knowing that we had it in the bag. I was hopeful. I joined the rest of the folks that you spoke to. I was hopeful, I knew that the team on the ground, the grassroots leaders the providers who were still trying to provide care to patients all across Kansas, they — that they were doing the hard work, they were engaging their neighbors, they were engaging their communities.
And I thought — I knew that they were working hard but who knew that it would be a 20 point blowout? I think it`s just reaffirming the values of the in this country around personal freedom and I am ecstatic to stand with them.
VELSHI: So, you said that, people`s views about personal freedom. I want to play about if I can it was a TV ad that the no campaign was airing before the vote. Let`s watch it together. I want to talk to you about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This confusing constitutional amendment is a slippery slope for Kansas. It gives government more power over your privacy and your personal medical decisions. Don`t let politicians take away our freedom. Send a message, vote no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Now, look, if I were listening to that in a vacuum and I think that`s a conservative or Republican at. Don`t let the government take away our freedom, it`s a slippery slope. The ad does not mention abortion once.
Do you get the sense that if you are a liberal who supports abortion rights, it`s not going to offend you to hear the term abortion in an ad? But you think this kind of approach might work to get more conservative Republicans who are all about the idea that they want those personal freedoms, they want those autonomy`s, they don`t want to government is taking away the rights?
[21:15:12]
VELSHI: I think just as miss sweet noted making sure that we are running campaigners as we work with candidates all over the country that are responsive to their constituents, to their districts, what is important to people on the ground in their communities at is the most effective way to win their trust and win their vote. So communicating about personal freedom, the thing that we all hold so dear just as Americans, our freedom to make decisions about our own bodies. Ali, I can`t imagine anything more fundamental.
So, yes, as we talk about abortion and access to reproductive health care, and we are essentially talking about personal freedoms and that is again in my opinion as American as apple pie and that`s what Democrats are going to be talking to voters about come November.
VELSHI: As we saw, it was an example last night in Kansas, but strict anti-abortion measures tend to fail when they`re put up to the straight-up vote as opposed to being part of a candidates general message. We saw this in Colorado in 2020, in North Dakota in 2014, in Mississippi in 2011, and yet many of the people who voted against those abortion bans will go on to vote for antiabortion Republican candidates.
Apparently, if you are antiabortion but if it`s part of your whole package of stuff, it doesn`t stand out as much as these antiabortion measures do. How do you parlay that into victories when you when it comes to abortion rights?
BUTLER: You know, Ali, those were all races at a time when what was holding our personal freedoms together was 50 years of precedent. The Supreme Court has now made a decision appointed by an extreme president and Senate leadership that they have made the decision that they are going to strip those rights away. They`re going to take those freedoms away in everything that people were relying on has the backbone to maintaining their freedoms in this country.
I think what we are going to see is that law these elections in November are not — all of them are not going to be clear cut ballot issues and ballot questions, what it is going to be though is that clear candidates who have clear positions and statements and voting records on what they stand for and how they stand to continue to strip away the personal freedoms of Americans all over this country.
You mentioned a few just in your lead up. The position of the Republican nominee in Michigan running for governor, Tudor Dixon. She is now tripled down on this point, Ali, where she has made it clear to Michiganders that she does not believe that they deserve to have the personal freedoms that should be inherent for all of us.
It is the same for Adam Laxalt, the Republican who is running against Senator Cortez Masto in Nevada, doubled and tripled down. So while it may not be a clear ballot question, these are extreme Republican candidates who made it very clear with their statements and their positions and their votes that they intend to support national bans, what they intend to strip away personal freedoms and I am convinced and Kansas showed us last night that voters are not going to stand for it.
VELSHI: Laphonza Butler thanks for joining us tonight. We appreciate it. Laphonza Butler is the president of Emily`s List. We appreciate your time.
BUTLER: Thank you.
VELSHI: For more on this historic voice and one may mean for the nation, with Senator Klobuchar, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:23:29]
VELSHI: Through public hearings featuring testimony from dozens of witnesses, the January 6th committee detailed alliance with Trump`s allies went to try to overturn the 2020 election and halt the peaceful transfer of power.
Now Congress is actively working on solutions to ensure the repeat of what happened in 2020 doesn`t happen again. Today, the Senate Rules Committee held a hearing on a bipartisan bill to overhaul the Electoral Count Act. Remember that? The old 19th century law that President Trump tried to circumvent in his bid to overturn Biden`s victory.
The committee chairwoman, Senator Amy Klobuchar, began today`s proceedings with a reminder of just how close Trump came to succeeding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): The Electoral Count Act was passed in 1887. While it hasn`t gotten much attention in the next 130 years, it became the cornerstone sadly of a plan hatched by President Trump and his allies that led to an attempt and this insurrection at the Capitol. On a dark day, enemies of our democracy sought to exploit the provisions of this antiquated law to subvert the results of a free and fair election.
Yet our democracy rose again, and the inauguration went forward. And part of that is working together to make sure that laws can`t be used by anyone of any party, any political persuasion in a way that undercuts the will of the people.
(END VDIEO CLIP)
[21:25:00]
VELSHI: That today, the two leading senators in this effort, Susan Collins and Joe Manchin, testified before the committee, outlining how their bill would clarify the rules for counting electoral votes. Among the proposals, clarifying the role of the vice president in the certification process is purely ceremonial as well as raising the threshold for raising an objection to the current single member in each body to one fifth of the members in each of the House and the Senate.
Manchin and Collins acknowledged that even though the reforms they are proposing are not perforce, they are a necessary step in the right direction.
So this question is, will Congress act on them?
Joining us now is Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar, the chair of the Rules Committee.
Senator, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us.
KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Ali.
VELSHI: It is unclear to me what`s the average American thinks of the electoral count act. There is a bipartisan act that needs to be fixed. It`s not 100 percent clear that if you fix it, Donald Trump and people like him can`t get away with what they`re trying to do but it does seem to be agreed upon that if we fix this, we are at least some of the way they`re to preventing what happened last year?
KLOBUCHAR: Yeah. Let me make clear, the way that we beat Donald Trump and his extremists like what happened last night in Kansas, right, where regular people turned out in record numbers and defeated an extremist provision on abortion, or fast forward to the elections. The way that we win is by winning the House and Senate and being able to salvage our democracy for some of these people who won on the Republican side last night.
But let me focus on this bipartisan offer. Collins, Manchin and a whole group of senators, Senator Blunt and I have been working with them for months now, and we are really excited about this proposal.
It will make a difference, because think about it now. Two out of 535 people, one senator, one House member, can literally gum up the process with objections. They can object to multiple states. Even without the insurrection, this thing would`ve gone for over 24 hours.
And so, that`s why it is really important to make these changes and make clear the vice president can`t overturn the will of the people, that there is an appeals process in place. And then, finally, that you can`t get a fake set of electorates as Donald Trump was trying to do after the election. So we`re moving forward on this.
VELSHI: There are differences on opinion about what should be done. Not clear, of the differences of opinion necessarily partisan or they just different people who think they`re different ways we can fix this?
KLOBUCHAR: There are changes that I`m sure we are going to make, both sides actually, Republicans, Democratic witnesses all agreed on the bulk of these changes. But there`s going to be changes and that`s why we have the hearing. Regular hearing, the House will have a proposal and Senator Blunt and I and the authors are looking very forward to getting this done by the end of the year. We must get it done.
VELSHI: You mentioned Kansas, I want to switch gears and get your take on what happened in Kansas. Voters overwhelmingly supporting abortion access in that state yesterday.
What`s your take away as that? The DCCC chair Sean Patrick Maloney called it a game-changer saying that Kansas is the earthquake that will rattle every assumption about what is going to happen this fall. Tell me your thoughts on this?
KLOBUCHAR: Women want to make their own decisions about their health. They don`t want Ted Cruz making them, they don`t want the Republican Party making them.
And they came out moderate Republicans, independents, Democrats and clearly said that last night in the sunflower state of Kansas. I think people were shocked. No one was focused on this.
But those who have been out there with our constituents, they know how we know they know how we feel about this. They don`t want a patchwork of laws. They don`t want women in Kansas to have different rights than women in Minnesota, or in North Dakota or in Texas. But that`s what`s happening right now.
And when they saw the extremist proposal and find out about a ten-year-old girl who gets raped and then is supposed to carry the baby? And then when I take her to Indiana, that doctor who legally performs and abortion starts getting questioned by the attorney general? People have been following this.
They won`t even allow a bill to pass in the U.S. Senate. Catherine Cortez Masto bill to allow women to travel to get reproductive health care or they won`t allow a bill to go through which allows you access to contraception? All that has happened in just the past few weeks in the U.S. Senate, Ali.
So, that is what the people of Kansas, women and people who stand with and voter their hearts out last night. And yes, I think — I don`t even say game-changer, because I`ve seen it happening ever since that decision came out.
VELSHI: Let`s talk a bit about some legislation about you are hoping to get past, including the Electoral Count Act, which we`re talking about. Your party is close to passing the newly Inflation Reduction Act.
[21:30:01]
There are reports now that Senator Sinema has issues with the bill.
What`s your sense of where we are with this bill and have you had a chance to speak with Kyrsten Sinema about her concerns?
KLOBUCHAR: I`ve talked to her about other issues this week, including the electoral count act, game urge, she is supportive. She puts that into law. And I know she is negotiating with Senator Schumer.
She is also someone that believes in doing something about climate change, and in her state, Arizona, they`ve got a lot — had issues with fires, heat, as you know. We will get this done.
But let`s talk about what this bill will be, and is. This bill is the game- changer. $300 billion dollars in deficit reduction, and all of the economists that have looked at it have said that is why it is called the Inflation Reduction Act.
Number two, taking on pharmaceuticals. The first time that I have been leading this effort for years, and finally we are telling the pharma companies, no, you wrote into law this ban on negotiating for less expensive drugs under Medicare. That is going away, we are lifting it.
Investment and climate change, to the point where we are going to see a 40 percent reduction by the year 2030.
So, we are bullish and excited about this bill. We are going to get it done. By this time next week, that bill will be done.
And let`s look at these other accomplishments, Ali, I`m sorry, but this is not just the Republicans have been extreme, is we are getting things done. NATO, just — Sweden and Finland, we`ve got them into and signed the treaty today. And we got that through the U.S. Senate.
The burn pit, our veterans are finally going to get the help that they need. We`ve got that done, despite Republicans messing around with it.
We got the CHIPS bill done, and now 13 percent are now made in America. We are going to go up in that number. We are finally making the semiconductor chips that we need for our cars and for our phones.
Gun safety legislation, who thought that was ever possible? Well, Chris Murphy did, and a number of other senators who have been working on this, including myself on closing the boyfriend loophole. It worked with Republicans, and for the first time, we took on the NRA and got that done.
The number two terrorists who — from 9/11, finally. And the president authorized this operation to take him down. It is day, after day, after day, we are accomplishing things for the people of this country.
And so, that`s what I want people to take away. Yes, the Republicans have shown their true colors, but the Democrats, we are willing to work around the aisle, across the aisle where we can find common ground. And we have a president that is leading, and we are moving forward.
VELSHI: All right. That was about ten topics in there. We are going to need a little bit more time to —
KLOBUCHAR: They are all good ones.
VELSHI: There are got good topics. There are things in these new cycles that they don`t forget about, they don`t understand how they got done. We just have to keep talking about it.
I appreciate the time that you take to do that. Senator, thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: Anytime.
VELSHI: Senator Amy Klobuchar, chair of the Senate Rules Committee joining us tonight.
We have some very sad news to report tonight. Indiana Congresswoman Jackie Walorski who represented the Hoosier State`s second`s district since 2013 was killed in a two vehicle car crashed today as well as two of her close aides. Her communications director Emma Thompson, and her district director Zachary Pots.
Walorski was the top Republican on the House Ethics Committee. She began her career as a reporter for a local South Bend TV station. She served in the Indiana House before being elected to Congress in 2012.
President Biden and Speaker Pelosi ordered flags to be flown at half staff at the White House and Capitol today, and tomorrow. Congresswoman Walorski was 58 years old.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:38:21]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX JONES, CONSPIRACY THEORIST: Sandy Hook, it`s got inside job written all over it.
Sandy Hook used a synthetic, completely fake, with actors, in my view manufactured.
All I know is that the official story of Sandy Hook has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: For a decade, the far-right conspiracy theory pushing media personality Alex Jones has been saying that the Sandy Hook massacre did not actually happen.
Twenty-six people died in that Connecticut school massacre in 2012, 20 of them first graders. I was there within hours of it happening. I met the parents of those children.
Today, in a Texas court, Alex Jones, finally admitted that the massacre was real.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAWYER: Do you understand now that it was absolutely irresponsible of you to do that?
JONES: It was, especially since I met the parents, and it`s 100 percent real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: It`s great to have Mr. Jones finally accept the reality on this, but today`s trial was not about proving that already well established fact.
Today`s trial was about damages. It`s the first of three trials to determine how much cash Mr. Jones owes family members of sandy hook victims. Mr. Jones is not being shy about his plan to get out of paying here. This is him on his own show, this past Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: I can lie to the jury in the damages portion, and say I have hundreds of millions of dollars. That`s why they do this, in the hopes of some giant judgment on the already guilty Alex Jones, that they hope it`s too big to even get a bond on. Once you`re in bankruptcy, it`s all there in the court, and the bond for the appeals are half your net worth.
[21:40:05]
Well, that isn`t going to be very much. Maybe a million, million and a half dollars or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Mr. Jones has been claiming that since he was quote, deplatformed, his business has been destroyed. Last, week he filed for bankruptcy.
Meanwhile, the Sandy Hook parents of this case say the Jones has plenty of money, and they are seeking $150 million settlement. Mr. Jones is claiming that any settlements of just over $2 million would, quote, sink his companies financially.
Now, those two conflicting claims could be the only context that the jury in this case had for deciding just how much of Mr. Jones was able to pay, but today in court, the Sandy Hook parents lawyer had what Mr. Jones himself called, a Perry Mason moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK BANKSTON, ATTONREY FOR SANDY HOOK FAMILY: Your attorneys messed up, and sent me an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone with every text message you have ever sent for the past two years. As of two days ago, it felt free and clear into my possession, that`s how I know you lied to me. Mr. Jones.
In discovery, you are asked, do you have Sandy Hook text messages on your phone, and you said no. Is that correct?
You said that under oath.
JONES: If I was mistaken, I was mistaken. You`ve got the message is right there.
BANKSTON: You know a perjury is, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: You know what perjury is, right, Mr. Jones?
Just in case it was not clear enough from the tape, Mr. Jones lawyers accidentally sent the Sandy Hook parents lawyers, the entire contents of Alex Jones`s cell phone, years of content, emails, texts, the whole shebang. And in addition to proving that he had been withholding communications about Sandy Hook, this phone data provided the lawyers with previously unseen financial documents from Mr. Jones`s company, documents that show that during his so-called deplatforming, when he was taken off of some social media platforms, he had days where his company was making more than $800,000 a day.
The court still does not have a full transparent picture of Mr. Jones`s finances, but from what was shown today, he does not appear to be as broke as he is climbing. A jury that will ultimately decide the size of the settlement knows it.
You might be thinking, how can Alex Jones`s day get anywhere`s? Back in January, Alex Jones sat with the January 6th investigators, and he pleaded the fifth nearly 100 times.
Tonight, “Rolling Stone” reports, citing a source familiar with the matter that the January 6th investigators are preparing to subpoena the content of Alex Jones`s phone. Not from Jones himself, but from the Sandy Hook parents lawyers in this case. I have a feeling that those lawyers will cooperate.
Wednesday, August the 3rd has been a bad day for Alex Jones. But it`s been a mighty good day for the truth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:47:42]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOCELYN BENSON, MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: One night in December of 2020, I was about to put my son to bed, when dozens of individuals descended upon our home. Growing in numbers over the course of an hour, they stood outside my front door, waking my neighbors, shouting obscenities and graphic threats into bullhorns. As a result, there was an unpleasant feeling of anxiety and dread that permeates our daily lives, and those of our families.
Not long ago, my son standing in our driveway, picked up a stick, turned to me and said, don`t worry mom, if the bad guys come again I`ll get them with this. He is six years old.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: That was Michigan secretary of state this morning, explaining to the Senate judiciary committee that officials, elected officials like her are under threat right now across America, and they need help from Congress, in order to keep administering elections fairly. People like the Michigan secretary of state have faced a constant barrage of threats since 2020, and that`s where we are right now.
A six-year-old in Michigan arming himself with a stick, because he is afraid that people will come back to harass his mom again, just for helping his vote.
Meanwhile, primaries in five battlegrounds days last night show that election conspiracy theorists are continuing to win races. In Michigan`s Republican primary for governor, Tudor Dixon won. She is the Trump endorsed former actor who has repeated false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump. She has repeatedly criticized by next guest Jocelyn Benson`s oversight of the Michigan election.
Another candidate in that race, who was indicted for his role in the January 6th riot is refusing to concede, after finishing in fourth place.
In Arizona, Republican primary for governor, another Trump endorsed candidate is in the lead. This race remains too close to call with about 80 percent of the votes in. The former TV news anchor Kari Lake is currently winning with 46 percent of the vote. Lake has said that she will refuse to certify President Biden`s 2020 victory in Arizona, had she been the governor. She claimed last month that she was, quote, already detecting from some fraud.
Already to take things abroad. Just to be clear, there`s no proof in yesterday`s primary, but those are the kinds of people that triumphed yesterday. At the same time, we saw two Republicans who actually did something to stand up for election integrity, after the 2020 presidential elections both lose.
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The Arizona`s House Speaker Rusty Bowers, who publicly testified before the January 6th committee about being pressured by Trump and his allies to overturn the election in his state, he lost his bid to be the Republican candidate for a state Senate seat to a Trump backed opponent.
Michigan Congressman Peter Meijer, one of ten House Republicans to vote to impeach Trump during his second impeachment, lost his primary for reelection.
Apparently, this is the state of things. While election deniers are doing pretty well, those who stood up to power and told the truth, particularly in the Republican Party, lost.
Joining us now is Jocelyn Benson, Michigan secretary of state.
Madam Secretary, thank you for being here today. Thanks for your testimony.
You and I have had many chances to discuss it, but it was very personal today for you. That`s not the part that we often talk about. You are going to stay in this race, in this business, but there are people who are leaving it. There are people in lower positions, volunteer positions, or paid positions, in elections across the country. We are seeing that kind of pressure, those kinds of threats, people come to our houses, it`s too much. I can be a part of this.
BENSON: Yeah, that`s true. There`s two things happening right now. Some of us are feeling emboldened for this work, and what I saw in Michigan`s primary this week, where election workers stood firm and proudly in support of the truth, and the process, and the elections that we know are secure and accurate.
But we do also see a number, a significant number of folks leaving the field, because they say that these threats, the attack on our character, integrity, based on lies. And conspiracy theories, it`s too much. And our democracy will wither on the vine if we see too many good people lose integrity on both sides of the aisle, leave the profession as a result of these threats.
VELSHI: So, what is your top line response to the things that happened yesterday. People like Republicans Rusty Bowers in Arizona, losing, people like Tudor Dickson walking away with our nomination in the state of Michigan. Peter Meijer`s losing as well.
What does that tell you about people`s perception of election integrity, both in this country, and the state of Michigan?
BENSON: It says two things. One, we have to remember it`s a primary, not a general election. When the full electorate participates, I expect to see a rejection of the lies and conspiracy theories that have really been furthered just by one political party over the last several years, with a political agenda. It also shows just how deep those lies and conspiracies have seeped into our major political parties, to the extent that we are seeing. Nominees from those parties gain nominations based on lies. They are willing to continue spreading those lies, despite mountains of evidence that our elections are secure, and the results are accurate.
VELSHI: Well, the new Michigan Republican nominee for governor disagrees with you there. Tudor Dixon has criticized you recently, saying quote, we have to make sure that our elections are secure. And what happened in 2020 does not happen again.
Tell me — tell me about this, because one of the things that you have said to me over and over again, is that in Michigan, you do audit your elections, despite the idea that you never do. And that your elections are robust and safe.
BENSON: Yeah. I think, you know, first, let`s be clear, the 2020 election was a very secure election. It was an accurate election, and it was the highest turnout election in our state`s history. So, if you say you don`t want to repeat that again, I have questions about how dedicated you are to democracy itself.
But it also speaks to the moment that we are in, where candidates for serious, significant offices like the governor for state of Michigan, are more adept spreading lies about an election that has happened already, and as a result of, which has been both adjudicated and affirmed repeatedly, as opposed to sharing your vision for this future of the state, which is what voters we want to hear right now. Not about the past, but about the future.
VELSHI: Looking at what happened in Kansas, yesterday, I was actually thinking about Michigan. Voters in Michigan might get the chance to cast ballots to change Michigan`s constitution in November, and codify the right to abortion. It`s the opposite situation of Kansas. The default position in Kansas was that abortions were protected.
The default position in Michigan was that they are not protected by your state constitution. They are protected by your attorney general and the district attorney`s, who will not prosecute them.
So, tell me about how this goes. The Michigan effort to protect abortion has got the signatures it needs for the ballot initiative to be validated, do you think happens next?
BENSON: Well, right now, the signatures are indeed being validated. The petitioners did submit a record number, a record breaking number of signatures for a constitutional amendment. More than it had ever been submitted for any constitutional amendment in our state. Those signatures are now going under professional review and validation, and then a recommendation will be made as to whether to put this question to the voters this November.
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That will be made shortly. Once that goes forward, if it is on the ballot, then truly our fundamental rights and freedom is on the ballot this November in Michigan. And the future of our democracy, both through this initiative, and through the elections for governor and attorney general, and secretary of state, and many others.
So, it will give voters the opportunity to weigh in, their stake of protecting their own fundamental freedoms and rights, and our democracy this fall. It was really not just about Michigan, but the full country. I believe across the country, those are the issues that are on the ballot this fall. Those are the issues that voters can weigh in on across the country, and I think what Kansas showed us is where our voters stand on those issues. It`s squarely on the side of protecting those fundamental rights, freedoms, and our democracy.
VELSHI: Jocelyn Benson, Michigan secretary of state, thank you again for your time tonight.
BENSON: Always a pleasure, good to see you. Thank you.
VELSHI: We`ll be right back.
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VELSHI: That does it for us tonight. We`ll see again tomorrow.
But now, it`s time for “THE LAST WORD”. Zerlina Maxwell in for Lawrence tonight.
Good evening, Zerlina.