Updated
Summary
New documents the blueprint for the violent insurrection from the far-right gang the Proud Boys and it uncannily matches up in specific detail with what actually transpired on January 6. Mike Pence`s legal advisers are expected to testify in the January 6 hearing on Thursday. The January 6 Committee released a video of a Capitol Complex tour led by GOP Rep. Barry Loudermilk on January 5. The New Mexico Supreme Court ordered three county commissioners in Otero County, New Mexico to comply with state law by certifying the county`s primary election results. It`s in the middle of Pride Month and there is a very scary anti-gay anti-trans obsession on the right across the country right now.
Transcript
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: — make any more prediction, but we are at a really critical and dangerous period where we have got to take the energy base increases that we`re seeing seriously or we could — you know, we could really be, you know, start to get out of control.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Indeed, Lindsay Owens, thank you very much. That is tonight`s REIDOUT. “ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voiceover): Tonight on ALL IN. What you witnessed this what a coordinated and planned effort would look like.
HAYES: A blueprint for the attack on the Capitol.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. Go ahead. Who do you like me to condemn?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White supremacist and right-wing — Proud Boys.
TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and standby.
HAYES: Tonight, the new document from the Proud Boys detailing their plan for January 6. Then —
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re coming in like white on rice for Pelosi, Nadler, Schumer.
HAYES: How one of the writers got a tour of the Capitol from a Republican Congressman the day before the insurrection.
REP. BARRY LOUDERMILK (R-GA): But no one in that group showed that type of aggression that day.
HAYES: Committee Member Adam Schiff is here on that. Plus, the plan hearing tomorrow focusing on Vice President Mike Pence, and the real-life consequences of the big lie on a local election in New Mexico.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have huge concerns with these voting machines. I really do.
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES (on camera): Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Well, we now have the blueprint for the violent insurrection from the far-right gang the Proud Boys and it uncannily matches up in specific detail with what actually transpired on January 6. Today, we got the first look at the document titled 1776 Returns when the lawyer for the Philadelphia president of the Proud Boys included it in a federal court filing.
We heard mentioned this document in previous indictments against members of the Proud Boys, some of whom were charged with seditious conspiracy last week. Prosecutors revealed that an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury sent this blueprint to Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio on December 30, 2020.
Now, one way to think about the attempted coup, and I think it`s the way the committee is discussing it, the way that we`ve discussed here on this program, sort of broadly two different efforts that merged on January 6, right? There was Trump and his circle of people around him who were pro- coup attempting to overthrow the rightfully elected President Joe Biden, to keep Donald Trump in power. They were trying to use every government mechanism they had at their disposal that they could muster, including the fake electoral scheme, pushing the Department of Justice to announce investigations of claims of fraud, pressuring Mike Pence not to certify the results on January 6, and on and on and on, right? That`s all the governmental activities that are trying.
Then on that Day, January 6, that effort merged with the efforts of violent extremist right-wing mobs. Those groups, which include the Proud Boys, had their own plan to use force to topple the government. I mean, topple the incoming government, right, to preserve Donald Trump in power. And while we all saw the same thing, we all know exactly what happened on January 6, there`s some of the right who have tried disingenuously and preposterously to my mind, to downplay the brutality of January 6.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: We hated seeing vandalism at the U.S. Capitol a year and a half ago, and we said so at the time, but we did not think it was an insurrection because it was not an insurrection. It was not even close to an insurrection. Not a single person in the crowd that day was found to be carrying a firearm, some insurrection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: OK, first of all, what`s the royal we? Is he King Lear? Second of all, that`s not true. Multiple people have been charged with allegedly bringing guns on the Capitol grounds on January 6, so not a single person, not true. But as January 6 Committee laid out last week, just to be clear, the violent extremists and their detailed plans to use force were a key part of the attempted coup, and they were clearly in sync with Donald Trump. Here`s an exhibit the committee played and its first hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. Go ahead. Who do you like me to condemn?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White supremacist and right-wing — Proud Boys.
TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and standby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you say that Proud Boys members increase after the stand back, standby comment?
JEREMY BERTINO, MEMBER, PROUD BOYS: Exponentially. I`d say tripled probably. With the potential for a lot more eventually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever sell any stand-back and standby merchandise?
ENRIQUE TARRIO, FORMER LEADER, PROUD BOYS: One of the vendors on my page actually beat me to it, but I wish I would have — I wish I would have made a stand-back standby shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On December 19th, President Trump tweeted about the January 6 rally and told attendees be there, we`ll be wild. Many of the witnesses that we interviewed were inspired by the President`s call and came to DC for January 6. But the extremists they took it a step further. They viewed this tweet as a call to arms. A day later the Department of Justice describes how the Proud Boys created a chat called the Ministry of Self-Defense Leadership Chat.
In this chat, the problem was established a command structure in anticipation of coming back to DC on January 6. The Department of Justice describes Mr. Tarrio coming into possession of a document called the 1776 Returns, which describes individuals occupying key buildings around the United States Capitol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:32]
HAYES: Now, again, there`s these people who again, I think disingenuously preposterous are saying, Oh, it wasn`t an insurrection, this was — just to be clear here, the Proud Boys own model for January 6 was explicitly revolution, which is, of course, the use of force and violence to overthrow a government. And an insurrection, well, that`s just a revolution that fails, right? That`s why we call it an insurrection. It didn`t work, thank God.
Just look at the language they use, the references they make in this document. First of all, its title 1776 Returns. The year of this country`s founding gets thrown around a lot. But what the document references here is more than just rhetorical calls for liberty. They are advocating for what the Founders did, right? The founders took up arms and violently overthrew the British government.
There is an even more specific reference to revolution. The author of the document titled, the first section intended for internal use only, “Storm the Winter Palace.” Now, if you don`t get that reference, in 1917, Vladimir Lenin`s armed mob of Bolsheviks captured the Winter Palace. They stormed it. That was then the home of the provisional Russian government. And it was the key moment of the revolution. It ultimately led to the creation of the Soviet Union, Lenin coming to power.
And again, when you go back and read the history of the storming of the Winter Palace, it was sort of similar. Like, big mobs kind of overran the folks that were in there and took the building, OK. These touch points again, the American Revolution in 1776, the Russian Revolution 1917, those are the examples of the people that wrote this document in this document. It`s evident in the clear plan that lays out. The document states its overall goal is to fill buildings with patriots to communicate our demands. The officers list their targets including Senate and House office buildings in the Supreme Court. They lay out their specific manpower needs saying they must have a quote minimum of 50 patriots for each building, or it`s a no go.
The document`s overview of January 6, which they refer to as Execution Day, plans for “recruiters in the streets distributing printed and digital copies of the Patriot Plan, garnishing support from those attending rally. That`s interesting, right? They realize we need a bunch of people to pull this off. We`re not enough. So, that rally they`re referencing would be of course the stop the steel rally at the Ellipse where Donald Trump played the role of the recruiter as said in the plan. He spoke to the crowd, riled it up, and then told them all to go to the Capitol. At last week`s hearing, filmmaker Nick Quested testified he was with a group of proud boys as they walked the streets before the rally.
Part two, execution begins with quote ensuring crowd outside is full and ready to go. The goal is to ensure there`s an entry point for the masses to rush into the building. Well, again, that is exactly what we saw happen on January 6 when a large crowd had gathered at the Capitol, a Proud Boy smashed open a window allowing the first members of the mob to stream inside.
The second section of 1776 Returns is what they call the Patriot Plan Logistics intended for release to the public. It begins with a motivational statement, “You are the revolution. Be a part of history and fight for this country so our children don`t have to.” Then it lays out a timeline that was right in line with the actual events as they happened on January 6. 1:00 p.m.-meet at location one. That is when the first wave of the mob broke through police barriers on the Capitol grounds. 1:22 p.m., are enough people around? More and more writers were gathering. 1:30 p.m., wait for signal from lead, storm building. The mob broke in just after 2:00 p.m.
We now have a great breadth of knowledge about this plot, it`s combination on January 6. It comes from this document off the video the testimony from January 6 Committee, the reporting. In fact, it now make sense the committee led with all the Proud Boy evidence during the first hearing. A lot of what happened leading up to an on that day has been established.
But to me, there`s one outstanding question remains. I don`t know the answer. I don`t know if we`ll get an answer. But basically, the outstanding question is. What are the connections between these two efforts, right? I mean, we saw them in real-time, the President functioned as the recruiter. In that day, he invited people to the Capitol. He provided the Proud Boys with a crowd, right? But what`s the connect — is there other connections? Are there other connections, right? The plot coming from the White House and Trump and these extremist groups. How much interaction did they have? How close were they?
[20:10:03]
Ryan Reilly is an NBC News Justice Reporter who`s been covering the Proud Boys case closely. He has a new piece out today about the coup plotting document. And Danya Perry is a former prosecutor and Deputy Attorney General for the state of New York. And they join me now.
Ryan, tell you a little bit about the context in which we have gotten our hands on this document in that public filing.
RYAN REILLY, NBC NEWS JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, it`s interesting, because you know, this isn`t something that prosecutors brought themselves. This is something in a defense filing. And the intention of this Philadelphia chapter leader of the Proud Boys that you mentioned is that he didn`t have access to this document. I mean, take that for what you will, as lawyers representing that he didn`t have access, but sort of put it out there and said that, like this was — this was the plan and what it was about.
There`s actually a comparison in this and sort of downplaying, you know, the extent of it and suggesting that it`s kind of like sit ins and occupations during the 1960s, which obviously, it`s not quite the same when you know, enter a building lawfully as opposed to, you know, have an inside man and break open the door and have people flood in. I mean, that`s what this document really spells out is this idea of using the mob as a weapon.
Now, you know, this plan as it was, it`s mostly focused on capitol build things. And of course, it seems like, obviously, the plan sort of changed along some step of the way. This document was sent in late December. And it seems like the plans would have changed at some point along the way. We don`t know exactly where this came from. We don`t know who Enrique Tarrio was communicating with about this document. But what we do know is that on the night of January 6, according to the indictment, he made reference to the storming the Winter Palace, as you referenced earlier. He made specific reference to that. So, it`s sort of a call back to this document itself, which sort of, you know, is pretty damning, because it indicates that he had a very close knowledge of this document. You know, this isn`t something that he just ignored that got landed in his inbox somewhere. He knew what that document said.
HAYES: Yes, the lawyer saying 1776 Returns is not a plan to attack the capitol. It does not even mention the capital. It refers to occupying congressional office buildings, you know, as if this is like a bunch of students who are sitting in the Dean`s office to make sure that like the cafeteria workers can unionize or get a raise or, you know, start a new department like. You know, the Lenin — the Winter Palace again, that parallel struck me when I was watching it happen, because again, I mean, they — you know, three years later, quite famously, the new Soviet government would stage this is a big kind of spectacle.
But it`s the — you know, the storming of the Winter Palace, Danya, is the — is the ultimate historical example of a relatively small group of people essentially using a kind of like concerted mob attack to topple a government through force focused on one building. It`s very revealing to me that that`s the touchstone here.
DANYA PERRY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, that`s the — that`s the elements for seditious conspiracy. It`s an agreement amongst people. It could be a small group of people. And there could be some who are more in the know, less in the know as is the case here allegedly. And they agreed to gather to use force to impair, impede, hinder, or delay, obstruct government. And that`s exactly what`s been alleged here. There`s nothing more seditious than attacking the seat of democratic power to avoid the peaceful transition of power.
So — but I go back to your characterization of this document as a blueprint. And my — kind of putting my prosecutorial hat on, this really is sort of the holy grail for the government. The charge that judges often give juries when they`re instructing them before they deliberate on a conspiracy charge is you can use circumstantial evidence because common sense tells you that there is usually not a blueprint or a roadmap to lay out the overt acts and the means and methods of a conspiracy. But here, that`s what we have.
And yes, as alleged by or as argued by one of the lawyers in releasing the document, not every single element played out exactly as it was in this document. But as you said, Chris, it`s pretty uncanny how so many of the elements match up. And as a matter of law, it is not required that there is perfect symmetry between the plan and the execution.
HAYES: Yes. And one of the things again, that I`ve been — again, covering this as long as in depth as we have, something that really just sort of lightbulb moment for me for the first time in that first presentation, the first day of the committee, is the idea, Ryan, that they understood that this plan needed something else which was the mob. They needed crowds, they needed a certain critical mass of people to pull it off. They couldn`t pull it off themselves.
If, you know, even if you got 100 Proud Boys, you can`t storm the Capitol with 100 of them. And the notion that like in the document, explicitly, we need people recruiting, pulling people from the rally, we got to get people from the rally to our attack, ask yourself, are there enough people, that the person that provided that is Donald Trump who provided it on national television by telling the crowd to go to the Capitol.
[20:15:27]
REILLY: Yes. And you know, there`s a reference to hype man in here, right? Like, that`s a part of the role. And it seems like that wasn`t necessary necessarily, right? Like, Donald Trump could — was the height man that day. He was the best hype man you can sort of ask. So, I think that`s the role that he played here. But of course, you know, as we`ve said, it`s like, it`s very rare that you get a document. Like, it`s very rare that it`s a Stringer Bell meme from The Wire come to white — come to life, rather, in terms of like laying out a plan exactly how it`s, it`s going to take place.
And it is that sort of idea of in for a penny in for a pound when you lay off this plan that, you know, occupy a building like this, like there`s implicit violence. Like, it`s built into this document. This isn`t like — this isn`t a nonviolent document. Even if it doesn`t explicitly say, rip people out of the Capitol building and bash officers` heads in, that`s what`s implied here.
HAYES: Yes, Ryan Reilly and Danya. Perry, that was great. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
The January 6 Committee is set to hold its third hearing tomorrow. It`s going to start at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, not 10:00 a.m., 1:00 p.m. I have to say I`m pretty eager to hear from the two witnesses that are scheduled to testify. I`m going to explain why next.
Plus, we have committee member Adam Schiff on the newly released security footage of a congressman leading a tour in the Capitol complex the day before the attack. The video and what we know about a man who is on that tour just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:00]
HAYES: Tonight, we have brand new photos of former Vice President Mike Pence sheltering in place on January 6 as pro-Trump rioters storming the Capitol chanting, Hang Mike Pence. You can see in this photo his wife Karen there who again was with Pence that day in the Capitol pulling the curtains shut so the mob outside cannot spot them. Pence is the focus of tomorrow`s January 6 Committee hearing. There`ll be two live witnesses, both of whom I`m really anxious to hear from.
So, one of them is Pence`s former Chief Counsel, a guy named Greg Jacob. As the January 6, assault was underway. Jacob sent an all-time legendary email to a lawyer named John Eastman, who is of course one of Trumps coup plotters. Now, Eastman had pushed for Pence to overturn the election by himself. And with the capital literally under attack, this is what Greg Jacob emailed to coup plotter Johnny Eastman. “I don`t think a single one of those framers would agree with your position either. Certainly Judge Luttig has made clear he does not. And thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.”
Now the other witness is the man that Jacob mentioned in that email, former Federal Judge Michael Luttig. And for all the retroactive reputation brandishing and CYA that many of the people around Trump attempted to do in their depositions, Luttig is one person that really truly deserves accolades and credit for standing up when it counted most.
Luttig was a star in the conservative legal world for many years. He worked in George H.W. Bush`s Department of Justice, where according to NPR, “He served as the behind-the-scenes maestro for the Bush administration during the controversial Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings in 1991. He then went on to be named a federal judge by the Republican President. He was on the shortlist for a Supreme Court seat.
Many conservative lawyers through years clerked for him. He was what`s called a feeder judge. His clerk would go on to the Supreme Court and onto big legal greatness, and they include Senator Ted Cruz, and the aforementioned John Eastman, author the coup memo. He clerked for Luttig before he clerked for Clarence Thomas.
According to Luttig, the day before the insurrection, the Vice President`s outside counsel asked looting to publicly state Pence could not reject electoral votes leading Luttig to tweak, “The Constitution does not empower the Vice President to alter in any way the votes that have been cast, either by rejecting certain of them or otherwise. There`s real reason to believe what Luttig wrote is what pushed Pence over the top, so I cannot wait to hear what he has to say tomorrow.
George Conway is himself a prominent conservative lawyer, a former Republican, and he joins me now. George, let`s just start with the role that Luttig has played and his testimony tomorrow. I do think — I find myself you know, watching Bill Barr and some of these other people, you know, almost given myself a sort of eyestrain from how hard I`m rolling my eyes at, you know, now they tell us.
Luttig, however, I think is in a different category. He was called upon to do this. What do you anticipate we`ll hear from him tomorrow?
GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: Oh, absolutely. I agree with you, Chris. I really want to hear this testimony. I think it`s going to be a blockbuster moment in these hearings. And the reason is that Mike Luttig was a conservative judicial icon. I mean, he was — you know, leaning apart the people on the Supreme Court, he was the judge that really all young conservative lawyers really looked up to. They wanted to clerk for him. Most of his — most of his law clerks went on to clerk for the Supreme Court, as you mentioned. And most of those law clerks that went to the Supreme Court clerked for Justice Scalia and Justice Thomas.
And Luttig himself was one of Justice Scalia`s earliest law clerks when Justice Scalia was on the Court of Appeals. And if you took a poll, I mean, he was on the shortlist in the mid-2000s for the Supreme Court under the second Bush administration. And I think if you — frankly, and I`ve been a member of the — I know some people watching this will now turn off the TV, but I`ve been a member of the third federal society for 37 years. And if you poll members of the Federalist Society in 2005 who they would have preferred on the Supreme Court, it was Mike Luttig.
And I think Luttig has very strong feelings. I`ve heard him express them privately. I`ve seen it publicly, in the New York Times. I`ve heard it on podcast. He feels so strongly that what happened on January 6 was an attempted coup and that we came very close to losing democracy and the rule of law that day. And not only that, he feels that we are still at risk for 2024.
[20:25:57]
HAYES: Yes. And your point there, I mean, I really think, you know, in the end, so many different things were brought to bear to save us from the worst possible outcome. But I do think this is someone who had tremendous gravitas, authority, institutional respect. Like, it being him, not just anyone, but it was him, him saying it, him saying it publicly —
CONWAY: That`s why Pence went to him. That`s why Pence went to him, right? I mean, that is why —
HAYES: Right. And he end up serving the role as the I mean, that ends up serving the role as the conscience of democracy in this entire thing. Michael Luttig, a guy who I remember thinking of like, oh, MIKE — Judge Luttig, like, a right-wing judge. Like he`s the guy —
CONWAY: And he believes in the rule of law, and that`s the key point. He believes in the rule of law, and believes in democracy, and believes that if you lose an election, you lose an election. And the Framers intended that if you lose an election, you turn — you cooperate and do the best thing for the country. He puts his country above politics. He puts his country — he puts the constitution of a party. He is a principled man and a brilliant man, and one of the — one of the great judges, I think, of our generation.
HAYES: We`re going to see him tomorrow in that hearing room along with Greg Jacob. One of the people that we`ve spent a lot of time thinking about is John Eastman, again, who interestingly, you know, Federal Society member in different parts of the sort of the, you know, the world of conservative legal folks, again, a Luttig-Thomas clerk, which has its own kind of, you know, badge in that world.
We have reporting out today that the House committee investigating the attack has recently — has obtained email correspondence between Virginia Ginni Thomas, the wife, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, and John Eastman. The email show Thomas` efforts to overturn the election, meaning Ginni Thomas, were more extensive than previously known. His really starts to feel like a tremendous issue and problem.
CONWAY: It`s certainly very discomforting, for those of us who watch the Supreme Court, that the closer that she gets to this, the more uncomfortable we have to be about justice Thomas` participation in anything relating to January 6. That being said, I`d like to see the emails to see exactly what she was doing, whether she was really involved in the cog and the nuts and bolts of the coup in the insurrection or was she in the peanut gallery lobbying in thoughts and emails. I don`t know what the facts are, but it`s just — it is — it is very unusual and disturbing.
HAYES: Yes. And the point about the peanut gallery is well taken. I mean, the facts matter here. I think the text to Mark Meadows felt a little bit like here`s something I saw on Facebook, the proactive emails to the Arizona legislators felt much more like here I am taking an active role, we`re connected to you through your clerking for my husband, etc. So, we`ll I think, see those emails at some point. George Conway, thanks so much for making time tonight. I appreciate it.
CONWAY: Thank you.
HAYES: All right, tonight, a chilling new video from the January 6 committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no escape Pelosi. We`ll pull you out by your hairs. How about that, Pelosi? We go muscle make yourself another appointment. When I get down with you, you`re going to need to sign up on top of that bald head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The man you just heard there apparently in the Capitol complex the day before January 6, on a tour led personally by a member of Congress. Committee Member Adam Schiff is here to explain these latest revelations next.
[20:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: OK, so, for the past year and a half, there been this kind of caper, questions about a tour, about tours. Did Republican members give tours as a form of reconnaissance to insurrections? It just floated around. One tour, in particular, has become the object of this inquiry. It`s a tour given by Georgia Republican Congressman Barry Loudermilk of the Capitol complex, not the Capitol, the day before the insurrection.
Now, in response to these questions and accusations from Democratic members of Congress, Loudermilk actually filed an ethics complaint against nearly three dozen House Democrats in May 2021, saying, “No Republican member of Congress led any kind of reconnaissance tours through the Capitol proven by security footage.”
The claim of a tour and the Congressman`s denial just sat there for about a year. But about a month ago, the January 6 Committee sent Loudermilk a letter saying, “The Select Committee has reviewed evidence directly contradicts that denial. On, May 19, the same day the committee sent that letter, Loudermilk released a statement acknowledging he gave a tour. OK, interesting, to “a constituent family with young children.” The next day he released a video saying he took a family with young children and our guests to lunch in a house building.
Well, today the January 6 Committee sent Congressman Loudermilk another letter asking him to appear before the committee to testify. And included in the letter is this security footage that appears to show Loudermilk hosting a tour in the Capitol complex of 12 to 15 people where his guests, somewhat weirdly I would say, appear to be snapping photos of things like stairwells, security checkpoints, some even took pictures of the Capitol tunnel system.
According to the committee, one man on that tour taking pictures can be heard from behind the camera in this truly chilling video from January 6.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our fearless leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, check out my flag I made, guys. You see it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go, baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s from a certain person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. That`s for somebody special, somebody special.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Congressman Adam Schiff is a Democrat of California and he`s a member of the January 6 Committee which is set to hold its third hearing tomorrow. He previously served as the lead impeachment manager for Donald Trump`s first impeachment. Good to have you on, Congressman.
This has been a difficult story to pin down. It`s something that I was always very careful about in our reporting, because the — what seemed to be the accusations being leveled by Democratic members of Congress were very serious. We now have some evidence on the record. What do we know? Can you just establish what we know that you`ve publicly shared so we can pin this down?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, what we`ve shared is the footage, just a part of which you just displayed, you know, other parts, that same person doing the narration, that same person who was apparently on that tour with Representative Loudermilk is talking in a threatening way about what he`s going to do to Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Nadler and a couple of my other colleagues.
And, you know, what makes it so concerning, you know, in addition to the fact that, you know, this is basically threatening the lives or well-being of members of Congress, is that you have these denials, these in fact, denials by Representative Loudermilk, by Representative Rodney Davis as well saying there were no tours, they looked at the footage. And of course, now we see that there is a tour of the complex here. And very — you know, what appears on the film at least to be suspicious activity, taking photos of stairwells, which are not a tourist attraction, appearing to take photos of, you know, security checkpoint, at least one checkpoint. And so, it`s all the more baffling.
This is the reason we wanted this representative to come in. We wanted to discuss this with him. And, of course, he has refused.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, it`s a very strange situation. The U.S. Capitol Police Chief Thomas Manger, I think — is that how it`s pronounced? He wrote a letter to Rodney Davis, who`s the House Administration Committee ranking member, saying that we train our officers and being alert for people conducting surveillance or reconnaissance, and we do not consider any of the activities we observed as suspicious. That`s their point on it.
Again, it`s all a little hard to tell without context. I`m just looking at closed, you know, circuit security footage. But I just want to make sure. Did the committee has established or believes they have established that that individual that we heard basically threatening to violently assaulted members of Congress was on that tour of the day before?
SCHIFF: You know, that is our belief based on the evidence that we`ve seen. Now, if Mr. Loudermilk wants to come in and say that`s not so or demonstrate — but the evidence that we have, I think, is pretty clear. You know, we do want to talk with him and make sure there`s no confusion here. I think all of us on the subcommittee find that letter from the Capitol Police to be utterly baffling. And if that — you know, if those images don`t appear suspicious, or if they didn`t make the connection that we have, we want to know why. And we hope that it`s not a lack of diligence on their part.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, I think again, I`m straining here to maintain. I mean, I have strained to maintain sort of healthy skepticism throughout this entire trajectory of this story partly because it`s such an — right — I mean, the worst version of it right, is that a member of Congress essentially colluding with people that are going to, you know, sabotage the capital by essentially using — abusing their role as a member of Congress to give this sort of special access to people fundamentally attempting reconnaissance, right? That`s the worst possible interpretation of events. The exculpatory version, I guess from the Congressman would be, hey, I give constituents tours. I don`t control what they do the next day. But it does seem like he could just explain that on, you know, under your invitation, right? I mean, he could just testify.
[20:40:25]
SCHIFF: Yes. I mean, that`s exactly right. We gave him the opportunity. We`ve given him the opportunity repeatedly. We`ve got to reup to the opportunity for him to come in and talk with us to hear what his explanation is why first deny giving a tour, then admitting giving a tour, denied that it was, you know, basically anything other than a family with small children. And, you know, we would like to hear his explanation and why there seems to have been this effort to dissemble about it.
HAYES: Final question, since I have you here. I`m working on my Google calendar for the next few weeks. Are these hearings not going to go past next week? Can I get some clarity on that? I can`t get clarity. I mean, I got three kids. I got to figure out my schedule here. What`s going on?
SCHIFF: You know, I`m not at liberty to release information about the committee schedule. We release it, you know, as soon as we were required to under the rules. But, look, there are more hearings to come. I think that the evidence continues to mount that Donald Trump not only lost the election, nearly lost, lied about it, continued lying about it, raise money off those lies. And those lies have continued to put our country at grave risk. So, a lot more to come from where, you know, you`ve seen other evidence today.
HAYES: Yes. Well, I`m looking forward to Mr. Jacob and Mr. Luttig tomorrow. Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you very much.
SCHIFF: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up, while the attempted coup by Donald Trump failed, the spirit of his election lies live on, thrive in some senses. To truly understand the destructive grip the big lie has on America, you`re going to want to hear our next story. Don`t go away.
[20:45:00]
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HAYES: The story of Monday`s January 6 hearing was that most of the people in Donald Trump`s orbit did not actually believe the election was stolen. Some called them Team Normal. A smaller group very much did want to steal the election for the ex-president. Thankfully, the coup failed with the help of a handful of folks. But the spirit of Team coup is still out there continuing to move and grow in various ways in our body politic.
Here`s the most recent example. Last week, New Mexico held its statewide primary elections. By all accounts, there was no major reports of fraud or misconduct. In fact, the bulk of local races for legislature seats went uncontested. So, this Monday the Otero County Commissioners met to certify the results in their county, just as numerous other local counties have done throughout the state.
The county clerk presented the commissioners with results primary which made clear found no significant discrepancies and recommended they vote to certify, standard bureaucratic local government stuff, except the Otero County Board of Commissioners refused to certify the results, not because of any allegations of widespread fraud, but because of the three members of the panel, all Republicans, are on apparently team coup, or the very least sympathetic to team coup`s worldview and goals.
They say they cannot trust the results of the election because the county use Dominion voting machines which were the target of baseless false conspiracy now the subject of multiple lawsuits from Trump`s coup plotting lawyers following the 2020 election. Listen to how members of the board characterize their decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COUY GRIFFIN, OTERO COUNTY COMMISSIONER: We`re required to follow our — honor our oath and follow our convictions as far as this certification goes. So, that`s what we`re doing today. We`re not — we`re not mandated. We`re mandated by our oath. So, that`s what we`re going to discuss today.
I hope you could understand our position, you know, whenever we have — we hear that these machines can be manipulated and hooked to the internet.
VICKIE MARQUARDT, OTERO COUNTY COMMISSIONER: I have huge concerns with these voting machines. I really do. I don`t — I just don`t in my heart think that they can`t be manipulated. And I know there`s a lot smarter people out there than me that have a lot more technical writing code and all this for these machines. But I do not trust these machines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I mean, that says forthright and expression of where we are right now in this country as you can find. I just do not trust these machines. I can`t trust the voting machines, even though Donald Trump won the county with more than 60 percent of the vote in 2020 using those machines. Here`s an interesting footnote. The man on the Board of Commissioners you heard talking a moment ago, his name is Couy Griffin. You may have actually heard of him before for one specific reason.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New images have surfaced appearing to show Otero County Commissioner Couy Griffin at the January Capitol insurrection. The Feds filed the images claiming he was in a restricted area. But as Griffin told News 13`s, Rachel Knapp, he doesn`t believe he did anything wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: OK, the guy in charge of certifying the election results was at the Capitol during the insurrection and he was ultimately convicted of trespassing as a result. This has been the concern all along. The team coup will install sympathetic officials in key positions so they can enable Trump or another Republican to subvert democracy and undermine the will of the people.
Now, we should note, the New Mexico Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver is actually suing to force the commission to certify the results. Just this evening, the state Supreme Court ordered the commissioners to certify the result. What they will do next remains unclear.
[20:50:13]
Secretary Toulouse Oliver will join my colleague Rachel Maddow for a live interview in the next hour. You don`t want to miss that.
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HAYES: It`s in the middle of Pride Month and there is a very scary anti-gay anti-trans obsession on the right across the country right now. It an obsession that certain violent fringes of the conservative movement are taking their cues from. On Saturday in California, group of Proud Boys interrupted the San Lorenzo Public Library`s Drag Queen Story Hour, an event for Children and Families shouting homophobic and transphobic slurs. One more shirt that reads kill your local pedophile with a picture of an AK-47.
On the same day, a group of 31 people affiliated with the white nationalist group Patriot Front were arrested near a Pride parade event in Coeur d`Alene, Idaho. They had masks, riot shields, and at least one smoke grenade. Police say they were planning to start a riot at that Pride event.
[20:55:40]
Parker Malloy has been covering this rise of anti-gay, anti-trans attacks in her newsletter titled The Present Age, also a former editor at large for Media Matters for America. And she joins me now. Parker, it`s good to have you on. I know that you do a lot of monitoring of right-wing media and have for a while. And it just really is striking to me, and if you want to sort of tell us what you see of how intensely focus has come to be brought to bear, even in just the last month on particularly drag queens, trans folks, gay folks.
PARKER MALLOY, WRITER, THE PRESENT AGE NEWSLETTER: Yes. Thanks for having me, Chris. And yes, so just in the past month, there has been a severe escalation of what`s happening. I mean, if you think back just a few months ago, we were — we were having all of these conversations about trans girls in sports. Everyone was just very, very concerned about fairness and women`s sports. That was the big — the big talking point. And then it kind of shifted over to this, you know, focus on what gets taught in schools. the don`t say gay stuff. And that was — that itself was an outgrowth of the critical race theory, moral panic.
And now, it`s just gotten to this point where you have an increasing number of people on the right coming out and just outright saying that LGBTQ people are a threat to be around children. And that`s — it`s an old talking point that`s just being brought up again for the first time. And I think that it`s just getting more and more overt. I mean, you have multiple lawmakers now talking about making it illegal to bring your child to drag events, which is just so bizarre, and this would ordinarily seem like such a fringe idea. But this is being talked about by the likes of Ron DeSantis, who may very well run for president and a few years. That is scary that this is an idea that has become so mainstream on the right. And it`s a scary time.
HAYES: Yes. I mean, the idea that introducing your child to any example of like deviation from gender norms is child abuse, like, per se, right, that that itself — and again, that`s a — that`s an extreme, disgusting, and frankly, kind of violent idea because it embeds a notion of child abuse. But this is DeSantis when asked by reporters whether he would support proposed legislation, this proposed legislation from Florida State Representative that would punish parents who take their children drag performances, the governor said he has asked his staff to look into the idea. We have child protective statutes on the books. We have laws against child endangerment. That`s the rhetoric being used by the governor of Florida.
MALLOY: Yes. Well, and this rhetoric is dangerous. You know, when you present the existence of LGBTQ people as a threat to children, as a threat to the country itself, that`s how it`s being framed a lot, that`s putting lives in danger right there. I mean, right wing media largely dictates these sorts of conversations. And that`s what I think a lot of people who aren`t as tuned into the Fox News, the Breitbarts, the Daily Wires, all of those right-wing sites, maybe miss is that while normal news outlets will cover these stories as they — as new developments come up, on the right, it will be day in and day out of them showing stories of talking about, oh, these deviants are trying to groom your children into being LGBTQ. And they dictate these conversations entirely.
When I sat down to write my Monday newsletter, you know, the one thing that kept going through my mind was we need allies. That`s part of the issue is that we need people willing to stand up to help us right now. And I ordinarily only write occasionally about this topic on my — on my newsletter, I like to focus more on media generally.
HAYES: Yes.
MALLOY: But I think that as long as this is a focus of the right, I need to put more of my own attention in there because I feel like a lot of this is flying under the radar. You have these groups coming out to these events ready to fight basically, because they`re told that drag shows equal sex shows which those are — those are obviously two very different things. And obviously a drag show in the middle of a park is very different than a drag show in a club at night. But they want you to believe these are the same.
HAYES: Yes. And I agree. Like, the obsessive focus right now on the right is really unnerving and it`s dangerous. Parker Malloy who`s newsletter I read, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it.
MALLOY: Thanks, Chris.
HAYES: That is ALL IN on this Wednesday night. “THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW” starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.