Updated
Summary
Actor Matthew McConaughey pays tribute to the Uvalde shooting victims and calls for gun reform at the White House. Less than 48 hours away from the first public hearing of the January 6 committee, what to expect in that first hearing. It is primary day for the biggest state in the union, California, which is also the most underrepresented state in Washington.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Well, Ali, that is simply the best news I have heard in a long time.
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: Take the smiles where you can get them!
O`DONNELL: Yeah, I`m thinking about that drawer you just described, at home, filled with those cords that oddly enough are never where I need them when I need them. There is that little problem.
VELSHI: This is a common problem for us, my friend. You have a great show tonight. I`ll be watching.
O`DONNELL: Thanks, Ali. Thank you.
Well, Matthew McConaughey did something at the White House press briefing room today that we have never seen before. We have seen visitors step up to the podium. We have occasionally seen actors do that. But what`s Matthew McConaughey had to say in the White House briefing room today may turn out to be the most important speech that an actor has ever given.
And I mean ever. Because it might — it just might — save lives. It might — it might stop a school shooting or more than one school shooting in the future, if it helps move Washington to enact new laws on gun safety.
It was Matthew McConaughey as you`ve never seen him before, standing there with no makeup, no help from the lighting, no director. Just Matthew McConaughey speaking from the, heart from the head, on his own experience in his hometown of Uvalde.
It was raw. It was a person trying to control his own emotion, so it would not get in the way of the message he needed to deliver. We are going to show you an extended piece of what he had to say today. I don`t think that using shorter sound bites actually does justice to the message or messenger.
And he delivered that speech today in the White House press briefing room when, in Texas, authorities remain in full cover-up mode from Uvalde to the state capital, refusing to say one more word about what happened inside Robb Elementary school, when a mass murderer was given 78 minutes to shoot and murder 19 children beyond recognition, along with two of their teachers. We have never, ever, ever seen an aftermath like this in a mass murder in a school.
The Republican District Attorney Christine Mitchell Buzbee issued an absurd written statement today, hiding behind the grief of the families in Uvalde, saying there will be no statement or interviews from my office at this time especially that we are still burying our loved ones. The district attorney`s statement indicated that it could be maybe the rest of the year or longer before we hear anything from officials in Uvalde, because she said that her so-called investigation is simply waiting — waiting to receive written reports from the Texas state police and from the FBI.
And the FBI had said that the FBI is not conducting its own actual investigation of events but is merely going to conduct a review of the Texas investigations. There has never been a cover-up like this in the aftermath of a mass murder in one of our schools. It might just be a temporary cover-up, time to get the governor passed his wheel action campaign.
This is a cover-up of what the police did and did not do inside that school. It`s a cover-up that appears to be designed to, among other things, help Republican Governor Greg Abbott get elected.
The Abbott reelection campaign has one obvious beneficiary of a cover-up that hides the truth until at least after Election Day in November. The chief of the school police force, Pete Arredondo, who was in command inside the school that day did not show up today at a meeting of the Uvalde City Council.
[22:05:02]
He won a city council election last month and was secretly sworn in last week to a job which he apparently thinks he cannot show up for when the city council has a public meeting now.
The cover-up was pierced today by an anguished voice from inside the school. They now call the police cowards. That`s his word, cowards, for doing nothing for over an hour while teachers and children were bleeding to death on the floor.
Arnulfo Reyes is a teacher who was shot multiple times. He survived thanks to five surgeries in the last two weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNULFO REYES, TEACHER WHO SURVIVED UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING: After everything, I get more angry because you have a bulletproof vest and I had nothing. And I had nothing. You are supposed to protect and serve. There is no excuse for their actions. And I will never forget them, will never forget them.
AMY ROBACH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How many students were in your classroom when the shooter came in?
REYES: Eleven students.
ROBACH: So, the shooter killed every single student in your classroom?
REYES: Yes, ma`am. That is when I got to thinking, you know — this family lost one, this family lost another, and I lost 11 that day.
And to the parents, I am sorry. I tried my best. And did what I was told to do. Please don`t be angry with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Mr. Reyes told ABC`s Amy Robach that he knew police were close by when he thought he was bleeding to death on the floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REYES: One of the students from the next door classroom we`re saying, officer, we are in, here we are in here. And then — but they had already left. He got up from behind my desk and he walked over there and he shot all over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, Republican Governor Greg Abbott promised more training to deal with mass murderers in school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REYES: It all happened too fast. Training, no training, all kinds of training, nothing gets you ready for this. We trained our kids to sit under the table. And that`s what I thought of at the time.
But we set them up to be like ducks. You can give us all the training you want, but it`s — but laws have to change. It will never change unless they change laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: A man from Uvalde went to Washington today, trying to change the laws.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, ACTOR: Uvalde, Texas, is where I was born. It`s where my mom taught kindergarten less than a mile from Robb Elementary. Uvalde is where I learned to master a Daisy BB gun, took two years before I graduated to a 410 shotgun. Uvalde is where I was taught to revere the power and capability of the tool that we call a gun. Uvalde is where I learned responsible gun ownership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Oscar winner Matthew McConaughey showed up at the White House today, not as a visiting Hollywood real liberal, but as a Texas gun owner who went back to his hometown after the mass murder, trying to help, and went Washington today to meet with the president and members of the Senate working on a bipartisan bill. Matthew McConaughey brought with him stories from Uvalde that we have not heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONAUGHEY: We met with a local funeral director, and countless morticians, who had not slept since the massacre the day before. They had been working 24/7 trying to handle so many bodies at once, so many little, innocent bodies who had their entire lives still yet to live.
We also met a cosmetologist. And she was well-versed in mortuary makeup. That is the tax of making the victims appear as peaceful and natural as possible for their open casket viewings.
These bodies were very different. They needed much more than make up to be presentable. They needed extensive restoration.
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Why? It`s due to the exceptionally large exit wounds of an AR-15 rifle. Most of the bodies were so mutilated that only DNA tests or green Converse could identify them. Many children were left not only dead but hollow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Matthew McConaughey`s wife was holding green Converse sneakers as Matthew McConaughey told the story of a nine-year-old girl who wore them on the last day of her life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONAUGHEY: Nine-year-old Maite Rodriguez. And Maite wanted to be a marine biologist. She was already in touch with Corpus Christ University of A&M for a future college enrollment. At nine years old.
Maite cared for the environment so strongly that when the city asked her mother if they could release some balloons in the sky in her memory, her mom said, oh, no. Maite would not want to litter.
Maite wore green hi-top Converse, with a heart she had handwritten on the right toe, because they represented her love of nature. Camila`s got these shoes. Can you show these shoes, please?
Wore these every day, green Converse with a heart on the right toe. These are the same green Converse on her feet that turned out to be the only clear evidence that could identify her at the shooting. How about that?
Maite wrote a letter — her mom said that if Maite`s letter could help someone accomplish their dream, then her death would have an impact. And it would mean that her dying had a point, and was a point less that it would make the loss of her life matter.
The letter reads, marine biologist, I want to pass school to get my dream college. My dream college is in Corpus Christi by the ocean. I need to live next to the ocean because I want to be marine biologist.
Marine biologists study animals and the water. Most of the time I will be in a lab, sometimes I will be on TV.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: We have all seen great actors give great speeches. Some of them are written for them in the plays and films and TV shows. Some of them extemporaneous expressions of gratitude at award shows. Some of them are passionate public policy statements.
What Matthew McConaughey delivered them today at the White House, it may be the important most important speech ever given by an actor. It could be a speech that saves lives if it helps create new laws that can save lives.
It wasn`t a polished Oscar winner`s performance. It was much, much more than that. It was raw. It was a real person, feeling the emotional weight of a painful experience, nervously shifting from side to side, physically trying to find his place, his center, to try to say these things that he doesn`t want to have to say, nervously trying to control his emotions and contain his anger.
Smiling to stop himself from crying, knowing that becoming overly emotional when shifting focus from the stories he came there to tell, stories that had a new dimensions to our understanding of the loss and the pain that we have all witnessed in Uvalde.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONAUGHEY: We met with the grieving parents, Ryan and Jessica Ramirez. Their ten year old daughter Alithia, she was one of 19 children killed the day before.
Now, Alithia — her dream was to go to art school in Paris and one day share her art with the world. Ryan and Jessica were eager to share Alithia`s art with us, and said if we could share it, then somehow maybe that would make Alithia smile in heaven. They told us that showing someone else Alithia`s art would in some way keep her alive.
Now, this particular drawing is a — is a self-portrait of Alithia drawing, with her friend in heaven looking down on her drawing the very same picture. Her mother said, of this drawing — she said, “You know, we never really talked to her about heaven before, but somehow she knew.”
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Alithia was 10 years old.
Her father, Ryan — this man was steady. He was uncommonly together and calm. When a frazzled friend of his came up and said, “How are you so calm? I`d be going crazy,” Ryan told him — he said, “No, you wouldn`t. No, you wouldn`t. You`d be strong for your wife and kids, because if they see you go crazy, that will not help them.”
Just a week prior, Ryan got a full-time line job stringing powerlines from pole to pole. And every day since landing that well-paying, full-time job, he reminded his daughter, Alithia. He said, “Girl, Daddy going to spoil you now.” Told her every single night. He said, “Daddy is going to take you to SeaWorld one day.”
But he didn`t get to — he didn`t get to spoil his daughter, Alithia. She did not get to go to SeaWorld.
Then there was Ellie Garcia, a 10-year-old, and her parents, Steven and Jennifer.
Ellie loved to dance, and she loved church. She even knew how to drive tractors and was already working with her dad and her uncle mowing yards.
Now, Ellie was born Catholic, but had been going to Baptist church with her uncle for the last couple of years. Her mom and dad were proud of her because, they said, “She was learning to love God, no matter where.”
The week prior to her passing, she had been preparing to read a verse from the Bible for the next Wednesday night`s church service. The verse was from Deuteronomy 6:5. “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy might.”
That`s who Ellie was becoming. But she never got to read it. Service is on a Wednesday night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Matthew McConaughey and his wife visited the family of Irma Garcia, one of the teachers who was murdered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONAUGHEY: Then there was the fairytale love story of a teacher named Irma and her husband, Joe. What a great family this was. They were — the kids were 23, 19, 15, and 13. They shared all these stories about Irma and Joe. Both worked overtime to support their four kids.
Irma even worked every summer when school was out. The money she had made two summers ago paid to — paid to paint the front of the house. The money she made last summer paid to paint the sides of the house. This summer`s work was going to pay to paint the back of the house.
Because Irma was one of the teachers who was gunned down in the classroom, Joe, her husband, literally died of heartache the very next day when he had a heart attack.
They never got to paint the back of the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: If change is going to come, it`s going to come because of the stories of the dead, the kind of stories that Matthew McConaughey told us today.
Matthew McConaughey, he ended his 21 minutes at the podium in the White House briefing room, this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONAUGHEY: You know what every one of these parents wanted, what they asked us for? What every parent separately expressed in their own way to Camila and me? That they want their children`s dreams to live on. That they want their children`s dreams to continue to accomplish something after they are gone. They want to make their loss of life matter.
So where do we start? We start by making the right choices on the issue that is in front of us today.
We start by making laws that save innocent lives and don`t infringe on our Second Amendment rights. We start right now by voting to pass policies that can keep us from having as many Columbines, Sandy Hooks, Parklands, Las Vegases, Buffaloes, and Uvaldes from here on.
[22:20:02]
We start by giving Alithia the chance to be spoiled by her dad.
We start by giving Maite a chance to become a marine biologist.
We start by giving Ellie a chance to read her Bible verse at the Wednesday night service.
We start by giving Irma and Joe a chance to finish painting their house, maybe retire and get that food truck.
We start by giving Makenna, Layla, Maranda, Nevaeh, Jose, Xavier, Tess, Rojelio, Eliahna, Annabell, Jackie, Uziyah, Jayce, Jailah, Eva, Amerie, and Lexi –we start by giving all of them our promise that their dreams are not going to be forgotten.
We start by making the loss of these lives matter.
Thank you. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Former Obama White House senior adviser, David Plouffe, and “New York Times” columnist Charles Blow will join us after a break to consider what Matthew McConaughey brought to Washington today and how long the Texas cover-up can continue.
That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:25:56]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONAUGHEY: We need background checks. We need type caption text here need background checks we need to raise the minimum age to purchase an AR- 15 rifle to 21. We need a waiting period for those rifles, we need a red flag laws and consequences for those who abused them. These are reasonable practical, tactical, regulations to our nations, states, communities, schools, and homes.
Responsible gun owners are fed up with the Second Amendment being abused and hijacked by some deranged individuals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Leading off our discussion tonight, Charles Blow, columnist from “The New York Times”, and David Plouffe, who served as campaign manager and White House senior adviser to President Barack Obama. Both are MSNBC political analyst.
And, David, first to you, you`ve spent a lot of time in that briefing. We have the right to think that maybe we have seen everything in that briefing room. This was something that we have never seen before.
DAVID PLOUFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: No question, Lawrence. I mean, I think in the history of that room, whether there has been a lot of meaningful moments and a lot of powerful speeches, this has got to be one of the most powerful, maybe the most powerful. As you said, it was raw, it was emotional, it was specific, it was effective. And hopefully, you know, we should never be too optimistic about Capitol Hill, but, you know, there does seem to be some sense that we are moving in the direction of a possible deal. It won`t be the deal that we should have, in terms of its scope, but it could be something that we can prevent some of these tragedies from happening again, as Matthew McConaughey spoke today.
So, I think that this was an enormously important moments in this debate. And it was. It was arresting to see that in that briefing room, I think we have seen so many powerful moments, historical moments, but this was at the very top, and I agree with that.
O`DONNELL: Charles Blow, we heard a voice from Texas in the White House briefing room, basically asking for what`s seems to be what they are negotiating in a possible bipartisan deal in the United States Senate. He didn`t ask for anything more than what is publicly on the negotiation list.
And at the same time, that Matthew McConaughey is making that case in the White House briefing room, in Texas, the silence of all elected officials, and all law enforcement officials continues.
CHARLES BLOW, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, because no one in Texas appears to want to step up and take — you know, let the buck stop there. Everyone wants to surpass the buck, but and that`s a shame.
But, you know, I think Matthew McConaughey being in the pressing room, press briefing room is incredible, and the speech he gave us incredible. But I want us all as Americans to stop and pause and understand but we are seeing and living through, which is the slaughter of children in a classroom is actually not enough.
You have to have a performance. We have to have someone from Hollywood come in and make it real to us because people are becoming so harden to the fact, so used to it, so callous about it, that the fact no longer moves anyone.
Also today, we had the son of one of the oldest people who were killed in Buffalo, giving an emotional testimony because the fact that she was killed doesn`t move us anymore.
We have a hearing coming up of — the beginning of a hearing coming up on Thursday, Thursday primetime, that January 6 Committee. They have called in a television producer to produce it because they want to put on the best show possible because the fact that people are trying to take over and take over government and to void votes is not enough.
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BLOW: I don`t want us to skip over that. That the slaughtering of those children has not been sufficient enough to move us, and that we are moved anew because a Hollywood actor came in and pointed to these ten issues because somehow you didn`t know that AR-15 blows the back out of a person if you shoot them from the front. How is that possible? That is the true travesty at the moment.
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: And, David, you have lived with that reality in the Obama White House of these events happening, Sandy Hook happening, the president of the United States going out into that same briefing room, speaking as powerfully as anyone ever has on that subject and speaking elsewhere on it and going to that funeral, where he is saying “Amazing Grace”.
Again, it`s things we have never seen before all provoked by the same thing, the American phenomenon of the mass murderer with the AR-15. And as Charles says, not enough people can still feel the reality of that to force a change in law.
DAVID PLOUFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, it is tragic. And I will say this. I mean I think that maybe one reason we`re going to have action this time is because I think a lot of people, who did not act for Sandy Hook, they said, well, we will never have slaughter of little kids again. You know, apparently we can tolerate anything else.
Although I will say, in Florida after Parkland, the laws changed in Florida, Lawrence that you and I have talked about including raising the age limit from 18 to 21 for assault weapons and red flag laws. So we have seen some action at the state and local level.
But yes, I mean it is — puzzling is not a strong enough word. It is abhorrent that we tolerate this in this country. We are alone in the world. And I have seen polling recently that, you know, not most Republicans, not most gun owners — but upwards of 35 to 45 percent of them say mass shootings are just something we have to tolerate. It`s worth, you know, not having any gun control at all which is a remarkably, remarkably outrageous statement.
So, even if action happens this time, and we should celebrate it if it does, we know it`s not going to be enough. And we have got to stick with this and stick with it.
But I do think — I was blown away, Lawrence, after Sandy Hook, that nothing happened. And there were some, you know, really, really courageous Republicans and Democrats, from some tough political states, who tried to do the right thing but they were not joined by enough.
And now I think this is a moment where we may see some change. And listen if you look at the mass shootings that have happened just recently, a lot of them were committed by people under 21.
So you know, if we change some of these laws, as Matthew McConaughey captured today, and that seems to be where the center of gravity is — raising it from 18 to 21, some background check adjustments, red flag laws, and not nearly enough, it will prevent some of these mass deaths in this country.
But this is such an awful stain on our country right now. I think we all have an obligation as citizens to stick with this, just as we do with January 6. If we turn our eyes away from that, you know, we deserve the government we get.
O`DONNELL: David Plouffe and Charles blow, thank you very much for joining us on this agonizing subject. Really appreciate it. Thank you.
And coming up, we are less than 48 hours away from the first public hearing of the January 6 committee. We will discuss what to expect in that first hearing with Congressman Eric Swalwell and former federal prosecutor Daniel Goldman. That`s next.
[22:33:21]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Congressman Jamie Raskin, a member of the January 6 committee, told us what to expect in the committee`s first public hearing on Thursday night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): People are going to have to make judgments themselves about the relative role that different people played. But I think that Donald Trump and the White House were at the center of these events. That`s the only way really of making sense of them all.
The select committee has found evidence about a lot more than incitement here. And we are going to be laying out the evidence about all of the actors who were pivotal to what took place on January 6.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: We expect to hear from Caroline Edwards, a Capitol police officer who was one of the first to be injured on January 6. Last year, NBC News` Garrett Haake spoke with Officer Edwards about what she experienced that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINE EDWARDS, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: I could sense immediately something was off. And you know, then they approached our line. They injured me and a couple of officers by tearing down, you know, our barricade. And then, the fight on the west front began.
You know, we had to run back to the construction. I just remembered, before they started approaching us — I just remembered turning around to the construction people and saying, go. Like, you know, just making this motion of like leave — go. Because I knew that this was about to be bad.
GARY HAAKE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: What is it for you that sticks in your head?
EDWARDS: The screaming. When somebody shows me footage of the sixth, I have to have them turn off the sound. Because that sound, that screaming, that just constant — I can`t hear it. It takes me back to a very bad place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:39:51]
O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He served as house impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump.
Thank you very much for joining us, Congressman Swalwell. What would you suggest as a viewer guide to these hearings? What would you suggest to our audience as the way to watch the hearing?
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): To understand, Lawrence, that America was not attacked. America is under attack. Sure, they are going to look at what happened on January 6, a day where the electoral count was nearly stopped, where police officers were savagely beaten. Some have died since that day. That was not just an attack that passed and we addressed the threat and moved on. America is under attack today.
And the plotters of the attack are at large and the plotters of the attack are seeking to be in charge. So to just understand that we are no way out of what happened on January 6. And in every way, we are more vulnerable to our democracy completely being vaporized by what is being plotted right now.
O`DONNELL: Congressman Raskin said we just have an absolute mountain of evidence. Our problem is really distilling the core elements.
You have faced that problem in an impeachment trial. How — this is even tighter, trying to reduce this to basically two-hour chunks, in what they have done. How are they going to do that?
SWALWELL: Well, they are going to animate, you know, the thousand plus witness interviews, the hundreds of thousands of documents that they reviewed.
And they are going to condense it in a way that the American people, as I said — that they understand through witness testimony. Some cooperative, some I imagine reluctantly cooperative that this was unprecedented. That this was led by Donald Trump. That he conceived it. He aimed a mob violently at the Capitol in the attempt to take away every American`s vote.
And that it is still ongoing. And that`s why I think it is so critical that we are not looking at the past, that we are living in a threatened environment right now, where police officers can again be beaten, where elected officials, you know, could be hanged, as was proposed by so many of the people that Donald Trump sent to the Capitol.
So, we really need to make sure, you know, through all that evidence, that Americans understand this is a fragile democracy. And we could lose it if we don`t care enough about it.
O`DONNELL: Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for joining our discussion tonight.
SWALWELL: My pleasure.
O`DONNELL: And joining our discussion now Daniel Goldman, he`s a former House majority counsel for the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump. He`s also a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York and now he is running as a Democrat for New York`s 10th congressional district.
You have been through this — to this taking the mountain of evidence and getting it down into a shape that can be presented to a television audience, which is what an impeachment trial is and what the impeachment process is. What will you be looking for in this first hearing?
DANIEL GOLDMAN, NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I think this first hearing, as we discusses the other night, is like an opening statement. And it seems to me that these witnesses are — these two witnesses that we know about — are designed to narrate very compelling video footage, much of which the public has not seen.
And they`re not really — Caroline Edwards is a fact witness but as you will recall last summer, we did hear from four Capitol police officers and D.C. Metropolitan police officers about what they experienced.
So her perspective, I think, is more important in terms of providing some context and color to the video that I expect we will see. My guess is that that will not be all that we hear about on Thursday night.
This is a much more difficult task than we had in the first impeachment. Or that impeachment managers had in the second impeachment because there are thousands (INAUDIBLE) interviews.
And so, you know, the mountain of evidence that Jamie Raskin is talking about is really true. It`s very hard to cull through all of that. And to pull out the best parts of it.
But I would expect that we will have an audio visual presentation that will be incredibly compelling, incredibly emotional and incredibly disturbing.
O`DONNELL: Daniel Goldman, thank you very much for joining us tonight, we really appreciate it.
GOLDMAN: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: And up next it is primary election day and night in California, the biggest state in the union by far. I mailed in my ballot at the very last minute this afternoon.
California Congresswoman Katie Porter will join us next.
[22:44:52]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: It is primary day for the biggest state in the union, California, which is also the most underrepresented state in Washington. Yes, California has more members of the house of representatives than any other state at 53. But it only has two senators, which is the same number the tiny population of Wyoming has, making Wyoming the most overrepresented state in the United States senate.
[22:49:59]
O`DONNELL: Wyoming`s two Republican senators representing 580,000 people cancel out California`s two Democratic senators representing 40 million people.
Our next guest, Representative Katie Porter, won more votes than in her congressional district then Wyoming Senator Cynthia Lummis won in the entire state of California.
Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Katie Porter of California, a member of the House Oversight Committee and the deputy chair of the House Progressive Caucus. Representative Porter, I hope you don`t mind that I used to California`s election night as yet another chance for me to jump on my hobby horse about how unrepresentative the United States Senate is, why it basically embodies minority rule and why America can never really call itself a democracy at the national level as long as there are two senators per state. I am sorry I used the California primary to do that.
REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): No, it`s a good occasion to talk about representative democracy because people are going to the polling places. Polls are just about to close in California. And so they are actually casting their ballots right now, including for the California Senate seat, where Alex Padilla is running for reelection.
So, the fact that we have 40 million people tonight who are going to be getting elections — primary for their senator, it`s a big contrast to what we see in other states. And I think the historic example that kids are often taught, or in history classes you learn about the Senate, is that the goal is to make sure that rural Americans, that agricultural communities were adequately represented. The idea sort of land over people.
Yet California is also the third largest state by land mass. It`s the largest agricultural producer and has huge swaths of rural America in it. So even that sort of historical justification for the Senate of wanting to give voice to rural America and agricultural America fall short when California is so deeply, deeply underrepresented.
O`DONNELL: How would it be different if the United States Senate actually represented majority rule in the United States? What would that change?
PORTER: Well, I think the main thing that it would change is you would see the will of the people being reflected in the legislation and the positions being taken.
Right now the United States Senate is a body that is not deliberative. They are not debating. They are not considering things. Instead it is just simply dysfunction. And that dysfunction comes because there is a handful of senators — it only takes 40 senators, 40 people — to gum up the entire legislative process.
And that makes it very, very easy for powerful, special interests to donate and capture and control that really handful — that 40 people. So all they need to stop solutions for working Americans in their tracks.
O`DONNELL: We`ve been discussing the 60 vote rule in the senate for the last several years now, more intently in the last few years.
And what I can — what I`ve never heard from anyone who`s defending it is a specific example in our history of how the 60-vote rule made America better. And that is because they don`t have one. And what it actually does is make the minority rule in the United States Senate even more powerful.
PORTER: And let`s be clear. Democracy is about majority rule, not minority rule. That`s definitional to winners and losers in elections. The winners get the will of the people, chooses the winners and the winners are supposed to be able to legislate and make policy and be responsive.
And so this idea that the filibuster and minority rights are somehow part and parcel of a functional democracy — it`s quite the opposite. The filibuster is the hallmark of dysfunctional democracy. And that`s what we see in the United States Senate today.
O`DONNELL: What do you say to California voters, the voters who are aware of this that they are stuck with only those two senators? What about this huge California house delegation? Is that some kind of compensation for it in any way?
PORTER: Well, it`s true that proportionally, California has the same representation in the House as its population. That`s true for every single state. But the function of the two bodies is different.
To become law, you have to get through both. And so even on issues like gun violence prevention and protecting a woman`s right to choose an abortion, we see the California delegation overwhelmingly supporting common sense gun violence prevention, protecting a right to an abortion, other solutions. And what we see in the Senate is the unwillingness to even have debate, even to take these votes, because of that unrepresentative approach.
[22:54:53]
O`DONNELL: Congresswoman Katie Porter, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.
PORTER: Thank you.
O`DONNELL: We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: As the January 6 Committee`s first public hearing approaches Thursday night, never forget these words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: The president bears responsibility for Wednesday`s attack on congress by mob rioters.
[22:59:49]
SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): There is no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell gets tonight`s LAST WORD once again.
“11TH HOUR WITH STEPHANIE RUHLE” starts now.