Updated
Summary
Is the Republican Party aiming to get rid of all safe spaces in America? Members of the Proud Boys are indicted for seditious conspiracy in connection with the January 6 insurrection. The Uvalde mother who ran into the school to save her kids speaks out about the treatment she says she received from law enforcement, as families of the victims prepare to fight the gun manufacturer in court. What is January 6 Committee`s plan to keep Americans glued to the screens during this week`s prime-time hearing?
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: He has done three interviews here. He will be on FOX tonight.
You can let me know @AriMelber.
More important than that is, THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID is up next.
Hi, Joy.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: How you doing, Ari?
My favorite of your Navarro questions was, you do realize people can hear you, right? Classic.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: I cannot believe he said what he said.
MELBER: Which is true.
REID: Which is true. Thank you very much, Ari. Have a great evening.
MELBER: You too.
REID: Good evening, everyone.
We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with the concept of safe spaces, which the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines as spaces intended to be free of bias, conflict criticism or potentially threatening actions, ideas, or conversations, like when college campuses create safe spaces for marginalized groups, like sexual assault survivors, people of color, transgender students, et cetera.
But, for many on the right, the idea is something more threatening, spaces online and in real life where conservatives feel they get shut down for voicing unpopular views and where political correctness and wokeness force them to walk on pins and needles or just keep quiet, for fear of getting canceled.
To put it mildly, they don`t like safe spaces.OK, they really, really hate them.
But what`s happened on the right and specifically inside the Republican Party in the last couple decades is that their sense of victimhood and, frankly, fear and rage at an increasingly diverse country, where they aren`t automatically at the center of everything, where other communities have gotten a chance to be focused on by Hollywood and books and in the culture, and have elected political leaders who look like them — think President Obama, Kamala Harris and the guy who has been recruited onto the bad list for being associated with both of them, old Joe Biden.
Their anger has, frankly corroded into something more like hate, to the point where they, even as a minority — I mean, only about 30 percent of Americans or Republicans — are openly flaunting the idea that, because they`re not happy in and don`t feel affirmed by a more socially liberal, modern, multicultural, and, yes, more secular America, that there should be no safe spaces.
If they have anything to do with it, there will be no place in this country where any of us should feel safe. That`s our punishment. We have a political party that is selling demographic panic and rage and alienation, a really dangerous combination, saying basically that Democrats should feel afraid.
I mean, just take a look at the way some Republicans are advertising their political campaigns these days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KAY IVEY (R-AL): If Joe Biden keeps shipping illegal immigrants and states, we`re all going to have to learn Spanish. My message to Biden, no way, Jose.
REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): Democrats decry walls from within their own heavily guarded razor-wire wall. Democrats don`t want to protect you, because they don`t care about you.
Madam Speaker, tear down this wall.
IVEY: You don`t know who`s got what in their purse, lipstick, an iPhone, or maybe a little Smith & Wesson .38.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): In 2022, I`m going to blow away the Democrats` socialist agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: I mean, they`re saying immigrants should feel afraid, and that — quote, unquote — “socialists” should feel afraid. And since all Democrats are supposedly socialists, well?
Too many immigrants are coming here. Build a wall to keep them out. Separate them from their kids. Women are having abortions and not helping grow the domestic population of infants. We will just pass laws to make them give birth. Rape, incest, we don`t care.
You`re going to do it, and anyone who helps you should fear getting sued. They`re teaching history that makes me mad. Ban the books. Make teachers too afraid to teach what I don`t like. They make you wear a mask or get vaccinated against COVID? Nope, no one tells me what to do. I`m going to get in your face and threaten you. I don`t care if another million people die.
Too many of them are voting for socialist policies like health care. How about a couple of armed poll watchers following you to your car, or make you stand in line with no water and then question your registration. Their so-called votes forced Trump out of office. Let`s storm the Capitol. Make even the cops fear us. We will bring a noose.
Now, I wish this was hyperbole. But these are actually the themes of the Republican Party today, a political party whose mantra is, there is no safe space anywhere, definitely not online, where anger and alienation and fear just feast on places like 4chan and 8chan. And they know it.
And Rupert Murdoch`s marionettes are pulling those themes right onto their prime-time shows. Republicans have literally made bringing Trump and his dangerous paranoid style back onto Twitter into a political rallying cry.
And, OK, set aside ideological or emotional safety. We`re not allowed to feel physically safe anywhere in America, thanks to Republicans` ironclad partnership with the blood-soaked NRA, which long ago quit the gun safety business and has been working for decades to ensure that the most lethal arms get into as many alienated 18- and 19-year-old incel hands as possible.
So that we can`t feel safe at Walmart, at the supermarket, at Bible study or a church service, at the salon, at the hospital, if God forbid some guy gets mad at his doctor for not giving him opioids, at a nightclub, at a concert, even at a funeral, or at school, whether you`re in high school or you`re 10 and in the fourth grade.
[19:05:16]
In America, and only in America, you are literally rolling the dice every time you leave your house, or drop off your kids at school. And you just have to pray that today is not your day or their day to meet that angry, alienated American man with an AR-15.
This weekend alone, we had a greater number of mass shooting deaths in the U.S. than last week`s three day weekend, when — last week`s three-day weekend, when 17 were killed and more than 70 were injured in mass shootings across the country.
Today, multiple Democratic members of Congress attended a rally student activists held at the Capitol to call for action. Meanwhile, the other political party refuses to do anything to solve the problem of gun violence.
And don`t let anybody tell you that we couldn`t solve it. That is just not true. But Republicans want you to just get used to feeling this way, unsafe everywhere all the time, maybe in exchange for a few tax cuts that, honestly, don`t get to you anyway, because they`re really for rich people, or so you can say, hah, I don`t have to use the pronouns.
Victory, all so that they can have more power, which, by the way, they`re going to use to give more rich people more stuff and to take more stuff from regular people like you, while you hold your breath every time you go to a store or drop off your kids at school. That`s the bargain.
Are you OK with that?
Joining me now is Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action, and Tim Miller, writer at large for The Bulwark and author of the upcoming book “Why We Did It: A Travelogue from the Republican Road to Hell.”
Well, be a little more blunt with those titles, Tim.
I do want to start with you, though, Shannon, because you are coming not long from a rally. And I can remember the Take Back the Streets rallies, like, that was a thing, where they were like women should not feel unsafe outside at night. We`re going to take back the streets and not be afraid.
That`s like a quaint older period now, because there is no street you can take back. We`re just not safe anywhere. And I wonder, what was the message at the rally? And, in your mind, is there — is there an argument to be made that the Republicans — that the Republicans are essentially saying you — what you`re doing is wrong, like people shouldn`t feel safe anywhere, they should actually be subjected to gun violence everywhere?
SHANNON WATTS, FOUNDER, MOMS DEMAND ACTION FOR GUN SENSE IN AMERICA: So our message is to senators, don`t look away.
We know there`s about a four-day window when people start to lose interest. And senators — we even saw a GOP memo come out that said, don`t worry, this moment will be over soon.
It is up to us if this moment is over soon, and we will not let it be. And that`s why we have sent 700,000 messages to our senators. We had 350 events in all 50 states over the weekend. I was at airports along with volunteers at dozens of other airports across the country telling senators as they landed, don`t look away.
And then Students Demand Action were right in front of the Capitol day. We will be back on Wednesday again. We are not going to let up until there is a vote. And, look, it is — can`t be either/or. It`s got to be some of both. We have to see compromise.
And for too long, it`s been neither, right? We haven`t seen anything happen. But, also, if nothing happens, there has to be hell to pay And, again, it`s on us to make that happen.
REID: Right.
I mean, Tim, this is the reality. Four in 10 Republicans say, you know what? Having to worry about getting shot when you go to the store or church and Bible study, that`s just a part of freedom, and it`s a price that`s worth paying. That`s four in 10 Republicans think that.
Scarcely any Democrats and independents, small numbers, think that. But that`s what you`re fighting. You`re fighting your former political party or your political party — I`m not even sure if you`re still a Republican anymore — that essentially says…
TIM MILLER, THE BULWARK: Former.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: … that you should feel unsafe everywhere, because that`s the price of me getting to play with my AR-15s on the weekend.
MILLER: Hey, Joy.
Former. I bailed right before that interaction. So that was pretty good timing on my part, I guess.
(LAUGHTER)
MILLER: I just do want to say real quick, since I`m on with Shannon, that just how much I admire her for getting into the arena.
I think there`s a lot of people who are so frustrated right now with this, and it`s easy to just throw up your hands. And so I`m happy to be on with her.
But, look, Joy, I don`t actually — I think that my analysis of the Republican politicians is a little bit different on this, because I think that there`s a lot of issues where they are literally scared of their own base. And when it comes to Trump, when it comes to a number of these issues, they don`t believe any better, and they`re scared of their own — they`re scared of their own voters that might throw them out in a primary if they say one bad thing about Donald Trump.
And so they live in fear of anything that they tweet or any time they work with a Democrat or are seen with a Democrat. That`s going to hurt them politically.
The weird thing about — on this gun issue is that, actually, we have seen in practice that you can do practical gun reform in red states, and the Republican politicians — the Republican voters don`t react negatively to the politicians.
In Florida, in Ron DeSantis` Florida, Rick Scott that was the governor, signed a bill red, flag laws, moving the age to get an assault rifle 18 to 21. That`s not going to solve every one of these shootings. And that`s not going to get to your broader issue, Joy.
[19:10:11]
But, boy that might have saved those kids in Uvalde. And if we cannot do that nationally, if these Republicans in the Senate cannot just do us two simple things like that, and work with Chris Murphy and the Democrats, who are acting in good faith in a practical way, then I don`t think that we can put this on Republican voters.
This is on the cowardice of the men and women that are serving in the Senate if they can`t come to that deal. And I`m sure that Shannon and her group and other people would want more, but that is a reasonable deal that we saw in Florida after Parkland that Republicans signed.
And then the Republican governor signed it, then got promoted. He got elected to the Senate.
REID: Right.
MILLER: So there`s no political reason not to do it.
REID: But the challenge is, you have never had — I have never seen a political party do more ads where they`re shooting things, where they`re literally saying, vote for me, and then aiming a gun at a car and blowing it up, where they feel like they not only have to cater to their base you say they`re afraid of, because maybe they`re physically afraid of them, but they`re also doing something brand-new.
If you`re saying immigrants are a menace, and now I`m going to shoot this gun, women having abortions are a menace, now I`m going to shoot this gun, that is an unprecedented message in any country`s politics, Tim. It`s not normal politics. It`s threatening. It makes us all afraid of their base.
MILLER: No. I mean, the culture is out of control.
You had Lauren Boebert. I remember, one time, she had, like, the ISIS cross of AR-15s behind her when she was doing the interview, you know, the two guns in a cross behind her. That was sort of backdropped. I have got the pinto beans. She had the AR-15 cross.
Look, it`s a broken culture. And I think that David French over at the Dispatch, other people have written about this. Like, having a Christmas card with people with AR-15s on it, this is not healthy, right?
And I understood — I have had a big change on guns in particular. And part of it was because I was taught when I was coming up as a young Republican – – maybe this was all B.S. then, but I was taught that gun ownership was a responsibility and a right, right, that, like, you — if you went and hunted with your dad, and then you brought the gun back and you locked it up, and you were taught that this is something that is powerful, and that you have got to treat it right.
Just a bunch of politicians who are supposed to know better putting a bunch of rotten machine guns or AR-15, whatever it was, on their Christmas card, that isn`t being responsible. And that`s a sign of a really broken culture.
And it is — it has infiltrated almost — really the whole party. There`s just no other way to describe it besides that.
REID: I mean, Shannon, we`re at the point, look, I — you weren`t — what Tim was taught is not wrong?
WATTS: Yes.
REID: It is a responsibility. I mean, firearms are an awesome responsibilities.
WATTS: Yes.
REID: I have been through the licensing process. I have been through the training process. It is something I would never hand to an 18-year-old, that I wouldn`t have in my house when our kids were young, that we waited until they were moved out of the house, because I understand the awesome responsibility, that you — I mean, you literally can take a life with this with this machine.
WATTS: Right.
REID: But what Republicans have done is created a culture where, literally, people are solving their anger and rage issues that are also being stoked by the same party, with guns.
WATTS: Yes.
REID: Angry about abortion and not enough children, you take your gun out. Angry about immigration, you take a gun out. That happened in Texas.
Like, there`s an association problem that I have with it. And now you have a situation where we don`t know the cause of it. Philadelphia, South Street Seaport isn`t safe? So you can`t go there? You can get shot.
I mean, I don`t know how you get past — if the culture of an entire political party is that we are so in love with the idea of using our guns to solve our anger about social issues, how do you then get them to say, OK, we will legislate to stop mass shootings?
WATTS: Well, first of all, this is a cultural issue. You and Tim are exactly right.
And when we talk about guns, it`s important to remember, if you go back a decade to when I started doing this work, our theory was, we would shine a light on the NRA, and we would expose them for what they were, corrupt, giving special favors, a lobbying organization, not a safety organization.
And we have done that, right? They`re hemorrhaging political power in dollars. But what we didn`t expect to happen was that their agenda would be absorbed by the right wing. And so, really, now guns are an organizing principle. They`re a way to recruit people. They`re a way to fund-raise their way to excite the base about the issues you just mentioned that have nothing to do with guns, right?
REID: Right.
WATTS: And so that`s what we have to hold people accountable for.
And a lot of what we`re talking about when you talk about the responsibilities that go along with gun rights, giving 18-year-olds guns, I mean, what we just saw in Philadelphia, apparently, one of those 18-year- olds had a ghost gun kit and put it together and had a ghost gun.
We know about 18 percent of homicides committed in this country are by people aged 18 to 22.
REID: Right.
WATTS: They only make up 4 percent of the population.
REID: Right.
WATTS: We can look at the data and see what would help us make laws that would save lives, and not one law is going to fix this whole crisis, but, at this point, we haven`t even tried trying.
[19:15:00]
REID: Anything, yes.
Well, I mean, Tim, I mean, the reality is, there are a number of laws that actually would have stopped some of these mass shootings. If that 18-year- old and the 19-year-old in Parkland, 18-year-old in Uvalde couldn`t have bought a gun because of their age, they wouldn`t have had the ability to spray children with weapons that you — that are just slightly under an M- 16, right?
MILLER: Yes.
REID: There are laws, and there`s — they have statistically been shown to work.
If you had to go through the process of getting a license, which takes a while, if you — think about it. That guy who was mad at his doctor, if he had to then go fill out the N-77 forms and send that in and get fingerprinted, you might have had time to think about it.
So it`s a lie to say that guns wouldn`t stop some of these — some of these murders. Yet you have Republicans repeating that, because the NRA told them to.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Or they`re saying schools, one door in a school. Imagine trying to evacuate children through one door. Go ahead.
MILLER: The door thing is such a good example of just how bad-faith this is, right, because, look, if Chris Murphy — if they can cut a deal in the Senate that includes some school security measures, I`m all for that.
I`m sure Shannon`s for that. Include extra school security measures. But these are — when you come out after a shooting you say, well, there`s no gun control that can make a difference, but you know what might make a difference, if we only had one door going into the school,s I mean, here`s how bad-faith that is.
There was only one door going into Parkland. But the shooter came when kids were being dismissed. And, sadly, they were like sitting ducks walking all out of the school together. So, the one door didn`t matter. He didn`t want to come in during the day.
There was only one door to the grocery store in Buffalo.
REID: Correct.
MILLER: In Uvalde, the idea — so the idea of that door control is going to make the difference, but not moving the age from 18 to 21, where this 18-year-old was able to buy two guns and 370 bullets legally?
You tell me, OK, so he could have borrowed a gun or stolen a gun. Maybe. But that`s a lot harder.
REID: That`s right.
MILLER: Like, you`re making the barrier to entry here…
REID: That`s right.
MILLER: … this kind of killing a lot harder if that kid`s got to find another way to do this.
And so I just think that school security is great, but it`s obvious that there are some simple things, like the 18-to-21 change…
REID: A hundred percent.
MILLER: … that would at least make a difference.
REID: Republicans, they believe in making it harder and harder to get an abortion. They think that law is worth passing. Make it harder and harder to vote. They think that`s worth doing.
But they claim just make it as easy as possible for people to get an AR-15. That doesn`t make any sense.
Shannon Watts, thank you for all that you do. Really appreciate and respect what you do.
Tim Miller, thank you for fighting the good fight, my brother. I can`t wait to read your book.
Up next on THE REIDOUT: a major development late today in the January 6 investigation, with new indictments for seditious conspiracy.
Plus, the January 6 Committee`s bold plan to keep you glued to your screens during this week`s prime-time hearing.
And the Uvalde mother who ran into the school to save her kids herself speaks out about the horrible treatment she says she received from law enforcement, as families of the victims prepare to fight the gun manufacturer in court.
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:27]
REID: Today, the Justice Department raised the stakes and its investigation of the unprecedented attack on our democracy on January 6, filing charges against the leadership of the far right extremist group the Proud Boys.
Enrique Tarrio and four top lieutenants were charged with seditious conspiracy, expanding on the DOJ`s allegations of an organized plot to foment violence to prevent the certification of President Biden`s victory.
The Justice Department has previously charged the leader of the far right Oath Keepers militia and 11 members with seditious conspiracy. The escalation by the Justice Department comes as the House January 6 Committee prepares for its first prime-time hearing this Thursday, with a second daytime hearing announced for next Monday.
Today, committee member Jamie Raskin gave a preview of their case to the American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): We`re going to tell the story of a conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election and block the transfer of power.
Donald Trump and the White House were at the center of these events. That`s the only way really of making sense of them all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Well, that`s the committee Democrats — the committee Democrats` plan.
The challenge is to remind the American people with increasingly short attention spans, distracted by mass shootings and high gas prices and other crises, that it matters that the former president of the United States and his allies plotted not a demonstration, as Republicans would have you believe, but a full-on attempt to overthrow our democracy.
Axios reports that former ABC News president James Goldston is working with the committee on its production value, noting that the hearing will be a mix of live witnesses and pre-produced video, adding that only a fraction of surveillance footage from inside the Capitol has been previously seen.
The committee will also draw on testimony from administration insiders, as well as video recordings of interviews with the former president`s daughter Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner.
The committee`s vice chair, Republican Liz Cheney, says that she is confident that the committee`s findings after a year of investigation will drive home the extent of the threat we continue to face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): It`s an ongoing threat. We are not in a situation where former President Trump has expressed any sense of remorse about what happened.
We`re, in fact, in a situation where he continues to use even more extreme language, frankly, than the language that caused the attack. And so people must pay attention. People must watch. And they must understand how easily our democratic system can unravel if we don`t defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:01]
REID: With me now is former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman of New York, author of “The Case For Impeaching Trump.”
Thank you so much for being here, Elizabeth Holtzman. Really appreciate you.
FMR. REP. ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN (R-NY): Yes, ma`am.
REID: Woodward and Bernstein, who investigated the — obviously, famously investigated the Watergate hearings, of which you know so much, they have actually said this is worse corruption, that what Trump did was more corrupt than what Nixon did.
They write: “By legal definition, what happened to on January 6 is clearly sedition, conduct speech or organizing that incites people to rebel against the governing authority of the state. Thus, Trump became the first seditious president in our history.”
That seems fairly obvious. So why do you suppose it feels like such an uphill climb to get the American people to focus on the importance of that?
HOLTZMAN: That`s a good question.
And I`m not sure it`s going to be so much of an uphill climb. I mean, when we did the Judiciary impeachment committee hearings on Richard Nixon, I don`t think any one of us anticipated that millions of Americans would watch, that they`d stayed up — that they`d stay up, that they`d remember.
And people still come to me today and say, Liz, I was up all night and day watching those hearings.
I think the American people have to understand — I don`t know how we can get everyone to understand, maybe not everyone, but many Americans, the majority of Americans, an overwhelming majority — to understand that what`s at stake here is an effort to destroy our democracy.
The center of a democracy is that the votes of people decide the outcome of elections. It`s not some dictator sitting in some place with his machine guns and his little army or big army deciding the outcome.
But there was an effort here to thwart the will of the American people. And that`s wrong. And if that can happen once, it can happen twice.
REID: Yes.
HOLTZMAN: And we can — this great experiment in democracy could crumble.
Do we want to see that? I mean, it`s our responsibility now to carry forward that great experiment. It wasn`t perfect when the framers created the Constitution. We have been trying to make it better. But we will be going — we will be shredding it if we do not pay attention.
So I hope Americans understand that. And maybe they will surprise all the pundits, and maybe they will watch, because we didn`t know how many people were going to watch. And we didn`t have any idea during Watergate what an impact would have.
REID: Well, one of the things that you didn`t have during Watergate was counterprogramming from pro-Nixon forces. I mean, Roger Stone existed then and now in both of these administrations, but he wasn`t out there running a counternarrative media campaign to try to thwart what the findings were.
But now you`re going to have that. And it`s not even just the Roger Stones of the world. It`s formerly normcore Republicans, people like Elise Stefanik, who used to be a sort of moderate, normal Republican. She`s out there now leading the charge, saying that it`s going to be a moment to shine for MAGA Republicans.
She`s taken charge of this idea that they`re going to try to counterprogram the facts that are going to be visually demonstrated and that we all saw live on TV. What do you make of that?
HOLTZMAN: Well, it`s not surprising.
The conservative Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee did the same thing. They tried to say, oh, there`s no evidence. Show us the evidence. Be specific. It`s not there. It`s all inference. It`s all speculation. Forget about it.
But then there was a smoking gun. And then they couldn`t back out, because it showed the involvement of the president, Nixon at that time, in the criminal conduct that took place, in the cover-up.
And I believe that the House committee, special January 6 Committee, is going to have evidence that`s going to show the involvement of Trump beyond really what — beyond any kind of doubt, most — common sense.
REID: Well, leading into the anniversary that`s coming up of the Watergate hearings, I have been sort of reacquainting myself with the absolute thuggery of the people around Richard Nixon at the time.
Well, now we have groups like the Proud Boys who have now are facing — several of their leadership are facing charges of seditious conspiracy. Do you think that now that you have people actually charged with seditious conspiracy in two of these right-wing groups, that that actually bolsters the case that what happened was a crime?
HOLTZMAN: Well, I think it does, of course.
But this has — what the American people have to see is that something seriously gravely wrong happened. What criminal law was violated is not as important as having them understand what the basic facts were. The American people got it about Watergate. It was much more complicated than this…
REID: Yes.
HOLTZMAN: … because there were so many different kinds of things, illegal wiretapping, and pardons, and a whole bunch of different things.
[19:30:01]
OK, this focuses on the insurrection itself. It`s pretty complicated, but it still focuses on that. But the American people got it. They paid attention, and they got it. The Republicans were screaming and yelling. They were doing the same thing. The facts are wrong. You have made misstatements, all of that.
And, by the way, originally, these hearings weren`t going to be public. The chair of the committee said, no, no, no, we`re not having public hearings. And it was a freshman on the House Judiciary Committee said, no, the American people have to see.
And once they saw, they understood. I hope that it`s presented in a way that really suggests the authenticity of the evidence. That`s the critical thing.
REID: Yes.
HOLTZMAN: Because we didn`t have advisers. We had no TV advisers helping us.
In fact, we got it all wrong at the outset. We were fumbling and fumfering and all of that.
REID: Yes.
HOLTZMAN: And then it got straightened out.
REID: Yes.
HOLTZMAN: We got the facts straight, got set.
And so I hope that the American people pay attention, because, if they don`t pay attention, we will lose our democracy. That`s the only way to say it.
REID: I agree. Hear, hear. It is not Sunday, but you can get — you can get an absolute hallelujah from me on that. I hope so too.
Elizabeth Holtzman, who was witness to the first go-round and now the second go-round on very important hearings coming up.
Thank you, Elizabeth Holtzman. Really appreciate you.
HOLTZMAN: Thank you.
REID: And still ahead — cheers.
Troubling new details about the police response in Uvalde.
Plus, the latest on efforts to hold gun manufacturers responsible when their products are used in deadly mass shootings.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:09]
REID: The funerals continue for the 19 children murdered in the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas.
Eliahna “Ellie” Garcia laid to rest today, two days after what would have been her 10th birthday.
Along with having to bury their precious loved ones, the parents of Robb Elementary School are demanding answers over a botched police response that includes handcuffing parents outside the school as their children were terrorized by gunmen inside.
We learned today that a shooting survivor`s mother is pursuing a civil lawsuit against police, while another Uvalde mom, Angeli Gomez, said she was briefly handcuffed before running into the school to rescue her children. She spoke to CBS News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELI GOMEZ, MOTHER: They could have saved many more lives. They could have gone into that classroom, and maybe two or three would have been gone, but they could have saved a whole — a whole more — the whole class. They could have done something, gone through the window, sniped him through the window, I mean, something.
But nothing was being done. If anything, they were being more aggressive on us parents that were willing to go in there. And, like I told one of the officers, I don`t need you to protect me. Get away from me. I don`t need your protection.
If anything, I need you to go in there with me to go protect my kids. And, if anything, they were being more aggressive on us. They were more pertained on keeping us back than getting into that school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: On Friday, the Uvalde School Board met for the first time since the massacre, taking no action against Chief of Police Pete Arredondo, who has been faulted for having officers stay back during a gunman`s deadly siege.
At that meeting, they heard from more parents, including a mother whose son was supposed to attend Robb Elementary next year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is deathly afraid of school now. What he knows right now is that, when he goes to another school, he`s going to get shot by a bad man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: We will also hear from a young survivor, Miah Cerrillo, an 11-year- old who smeared herself with her slain friend`s blood and played dead to survive. She will testify about gun violence before the House Oversight and Reform Committee this week.
Who we haven`t heard from — at least we haven`t heard enough — are police officials. And that isn`t the only scandal. Far from it.
When we come back, we will talk about how gun makers are marketing to teens and children and preparing them to become gun consumers as soon as they reach the age to legal legally purchase one.
Up next, the attorney who knows a thing or two about the inner workings of gun companies, after his landmark victory against the company that made and marketed the AR-15 weapon used in Sandy Hook.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:43:24]
REID: Last month, on the same day the Uvalde shooter turned 18 and was seeking to buy the AR-15 rifle he used to kill 19 children and two teachers, the gun manufacturer, Daniel Defense, posted this ad featuring a toddler holding a similar weapon, and includes the Bible verse: “Train up a child in the way he should go and, when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
Twisted, right? This ad represents the kind of provocative marketing that has helped the Georgia-based gun company become one of the largest privately owned firearms manufacturers in the country. It`s also the kind of thing that has a Robb Elementary School staffer, as well as parents who lost their 10-year-old daughter in the massacre, demanding answers about the company`s marketing of these weapons, specifically as it relates to teens and children.
Josh Koskoff, one of the lawyers representing the family of victim Amerie Jo Garza, is also the attorney who successfully sued Remington, the manufacturer of the AR-15 used in the 2012 Sandy Hook school shooting, reaching a settlement earlier this year of $73 million for the families and the right for the law firm to disclose Remington`s internal documents.
Josh Koskoff joins me now.
Mr. Koskoff, thank you for being here.
And it is a novel strategy that you all used in the Sandy Hook case, because we know that there is a law that makes it almost impossible to sue gun manufacturers. They enjoy a very special kind of immunity from lawsuits.
I`m looking up the name of the law here, and I`m not seeing it on my sheet. But it is — and they`re only ones who have it. There it is. And so now you found a way to do it based on the marketing.
[19:45:02]
How does that work in the case of the manufacturer Daniel Defense in this case in Uvalde?
JOSH KOSKOFF, ATTORNEY FOR SANDY HOOK FAMILIES: Well, we`re going to find out, Joy, whether — the degree to which it equates.
I think that, look, it`s not a great observation or insightful observation to say that Uvalde is like Sandy Hook 2.0. And, in fact, what I`m seeing is more of the same of what I saw from the Bushmaster brand being marketed by Remington, aggressive marketing towards a younger demographic, targeting youth, and so much so that, by the time this kid turned 18, he knew exactly what weapon he was going to get, because he`d been targeted.
He`d been courted. If you think of it like a courtship, that`s what the gun industry is doing now through the modern means of marketing, reaching around the parent, getting right to the kid.
REID: And, I mean, there`s a piece in “The New York Times” that talks about some of the way — I mean, I have gone through Daniel Defense`s Instagram feed. It`s interesting.
I mean, it`s very much sort of video game-looking sort of scenarios, lots of Bibles, lots of crosses.
And this was how “The New York Times” talks about it, about Daniel Defense`s marketing toward teens: “Some of its advertisements invoke popular video games, like `Call of Duty,` and feature `Star Wars` characters and Santa Claus, messages that are likely to appeal to teenagers.”
So that is what you`re getting at, right?
KOSKOFF: Yes, I mean, if you have ever seen the game “Call of Duty,” you know exactly what`s going on.
These — there`s an unholy alliance, is what I`d say, between first-person shooter games and gun manufacturers. They`re both targeting children, teenagers, minors, and they`re courting them at an early age so that, by the time they turn 18, they are exposed to the products, they know how they work, and they`re desensitized to violence.
People say, why are we seeing mass shootings today? Well, it`s because of the way the marketing has changed Since the time that you and I were growing up, period. I have just seen the evidence.
REID: A hundred percent.
I mean, look, you can`t advertise — I remember Olde English 800 used to be advertised on TV. You used to be able to advertise all sorts of alcohol in different ways. Cigarettes could be advertised. They used to sponsor entire television programs in the 1950s.
So you have seen regulation of other products that are considered dangerous to children and to teenagers.
KOSKOFF: Right.
REID: Do you think that there is some room here to eventually peel back this law? It is called the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
And, again, PLCAA, it is unique to the gun industry. But since they do market to teenagers, in much the same way people used to accuse alcohol and cigarette manufacturers of doing, do you see these lawsuits as maybe being a window toward getting rid of that immunity?
KOSKOFF: No, I don`t think they`re a window to getting rid of the immunity.
And I don`t — I know you said peel, not repeal. So I think I see a difference there.
There`s a window to getting through the immunity is one thing. I do not think that this immunity is going anywhere anytime soon. Why don`t I think that? Just look at what happened after Sandy Hook in Washington.
REID: Yes.
KOSKOFF: Nothing.
So — but to your — the more important thing is that what we proved in the Sandy Hook case is that this industry is not immune. There was this perception of invulnerability. We can do anything we want. We can sell combat weapons to kids. And we can just laugh our way to the bank.
Those days are over, Joy. And, sadly, they keep doing it. And I was — honestly, I was hoping that the Sandy Hook case would be my last gun case.
REID: Yes.
KOSKOFF: So…
REID: We were hoping that the Sandy Hook shouldn`t have happened at all, but it would never happen again. But here we are.
I`m glad you`re in this fight.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Joshua Koskoff, thank you very much. Really appreciate you
And up next: Tomorrow`s primary race for mayor of Los Angeles is a fascinating microcosm of the issues facing the Democratic Party and what voters care about.
I will talk to one of the front-runners, Congresswoman Karen Bass.
Stay with us.
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[19:53:32]
REID: Tomorrow, voters in seven states will be voting in the latest round of primaries, many of them deciding who will face off in the Senate, House, governor and mayoral races.
One big race to watch is for mayor of Los Angeles, where there are 12 candidates on the ballot. A recent L.A. Times and U.C. Berkeley poll shows a tight race between Democrats Karen Bass, the six-term progressive member of Congress, and billionaire real estate developer Rick Caruso, who was a registered Republican until three years ago.
In that poll, 38 percent said they support Bass, compared to 32 percent for Caruso. If no candidate gets 50 percent of the vote, there will be a run- off of the top two finishers in November.
Caruso spent a large portion of his personal fortune on this race, dropping roughly $40 million on television, radio and digital campaign ads. According to recent surveys, the top issues are housing affordability, homelessness, and public safety.
Congresswoman Karen Bass joins me now.
And, Congresswoman, thank you for being here.
And one of the things that has surprised me, just as I`m talking with folks about this race, is how close it is between yourself and Mr. Caruso. Why do you suppose that is?
REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA), LOS ANGELES MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Exactly.
REID: You are such a well-known person and figure in that community.
Why do you suppose it`s so close?
BASS: Forty million dollars is the reason why.
(LAUGHTER)
BASS: I mean, he literally has spent $40 million just to catch up to me. You would think that he would have overtaken me long ago. And the police union have spent $4 million on its attack campaign.
[19:55:00]
I think it just it goes to show you that the voters of Los Angeles are not willing to put City Hall up for sale.
REID: Well, let me ask you this, because there is — there are issues on the ground that do feel like they are helping to drive him somewhat, besides his celebrity endorsements, I mean, Snoop and all these celebrities that he`s sort of pulled on that people have been a little surprised by, a lot of famous people, including Clarence Avant, whose wife died so tragically in a shooting.
But there are these issues of crime…
BASS: Yes.
REID: … issues of homelessness that he seems to be using to his advantage.
And you`re seeing that in some of the polling with black and Latino men, noting that the Latino population is 48 percent — is the majority in the city of Los Angeles. Why do you suppose that is?
BASS: Well, I frankly, think that it`s one of the reasons why the race is of national significance, because, Joy, as you know, we have spent decades trying to fight for criminal justice reform.
And we are having an increase in crime in a lot of cities, but you well know that crime is increasing and cities that have undertaken no reforms at all. They are still operating off of mass incarceration and old law and order strategies.
But it is absolutely being used because crime has now spread to areas that are relatively affluent, and they`re not used to dealing with it on a day- to-day basis. But they are blaming reforms. And I think that it`s important to acknowledge the crime has increased and to deal with that as progressives.
And I know that he is basically running a very traditional Republican campaign, but he`s doing it as a new Democrat. He filed to be a Democrat a couple of weeks before he filed for this race. And the issues that we have to make clear is that there`s a lot more to being a Democrat. It`s about a set of values. It`s not just about what paperwork you fill out.
REID: How do you then prevent — I mean, the Eric Adams situation keeps being sort of brought up when it`s — when people talk about the race that you`re in right now, where it is perceived that there are at least — not a majority, but there`s a substantial share of particularly black men and Latino men who are drawn to these candidates who make more conservative cases about policing, even though, ironically, they would be the ones police the hardest if they — if these old versions of policing come back.
How do you push back against that?
BASS: Well, I absolutely think that it is just straight-up sexism when it comes to my campaign, because I do have a public safety plan that has received criticism from the left, because I am recognizing that crime has increased, and it`s not time to decrease the police budget or anything like that.
There really doesn`t have to — there really isn`t much of an explanation as I have read. I`m going to be very interested after the election is over and we can actually analyze the vote, because I know that the sampling of African-Americans in that poll from yesterday is very, very small. So we will see if that actually does reflect a strong sentiment amongst African- American men.
I actually don`t believe it does.
REID: One of the things in California that is not in play as it is in places like Georgia and Texas is that you`re not dealing with a voter- suppressed sort of voting situation.
BASS: Right. That`s right.
REID: So, in theory, you could have strong turnout because there aren`t as many barriers.
But will there be strong turnout in this race?
BASS: That is actually of great concern to me, Joy, because you are right. We are not dealing with voter suppression here, although I do think that part of the strategy around the deluge of ads, especially the negative ads, was to really demoralize the voting population.
But everyone in California that is registered to vote receives a ballot. And so there isn`t much of an excuse. So people have been voting for a month, but the turnout is low. So that`s why we have an active, vigorous ground campaign to drive up the turnout.
REID: And one of the other issues that has played a big part in this race is the issue of homelessness.
BASS: Yes.
REID: It`s a tragic issue that takes place all over the country, but is fairly acute in the city of Los Angeles.
How are you addressing that? Because it is a concern. As you said, as it creeps closer to the affluent neighborhoods, it`s something they don`t they don`t want to see. And people who are without homes don`t necessarily want to be herded into shelters either.
BASS: Well, let me just tell you that it is a profound crisis here. This is just in the city. There`s over 50,000 people living on the streets who have pitched tents in a lot of different places.
And we do absolutely have to get people off the street right away. But my concern is, is that our city kind of has two choices to go. Are we going to go back to failed strategies, which is really just about hurting people and incarcerating a percentage of folks, or are we going to build the type of housing that is needed and address the underlying problems?
And so that is a very big issue. And we have to involve every single level of government. That`s one of the things I bring to the table, especially with my federal, state, county, and city relationships.
REID: This should be interesting.
Are you ready for a run-off, if it happens? Are you fund-raised and prepared for a run-off?
BASS: Oh, yes. Well, as of right now, neither one of us is going to get to 50 plus one.
REID: Yes. Yes.
BASS: And so I am absolutely prepared for a run-off.
And you should know, in terms of the entertainment industry…
REID: Yes.
BASS: … we are all — I mean, that is Los Angeles.
REID: Yes.
BASS: So, I have very significant entertainment…
REID: Endorse…
BASS: … endorsements as well, John Legend, Samuel Jackson, Magic Johnson.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Yes, ma`am.
Well, I`m going to have to go, because I am now endorsing going to the next show.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Congresswoman and L.A. mayor candidate Karen Bass, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
That is tonight`s REIDOUT.
“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts now.