Updated
Summary
Gunman opens fire on NYC subway during A.M. rush hour. Biden says Russia committing genocide in Ukraine. White House may announce more military aid for Ukraine. Consumer prices jump 8.5% over last 12 months. Oklahoma governor signs strict abortion ban into law.
Transcript
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: And we`re out of time. THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, gunfire underground in New York, the very latest in the terrifying rush hour subway shooting that left dozens hurt and an entire city shaken.
And President Biden called Vladimir Putin a dictator committing genocide, amid fears this war is far from over.
Plus, Americans continue to pay up, inflation hitting another 40 year high as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Tuesday night.
Good evening once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle, and tonight there are two major stories we`re following as the invasion of Ukraine enters day 49. Vladimir Putin says Peace Talks are at a dead end. Today, he promised the war he launched will continue.
President Biden now calling the unprovoked conflict genocide. We`ll explain the significance of that just ahead.
Our other big story tonight is the mass shooting that took place this morning on a New York City subway train packed with commuters. Ten people were shot, at least 13 more injured. Incredibly no one was killed. The shooting took place at the height of the warning rush hour. Witnesses say, a man wearing a gas mask set off smoke grenades inside the subway car and then he opened fire.
And tonight the city`s police commissioner described what was found after the shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEECHANT SEWELL, NYPD COMMISSIONER: As detectives process the crime scene, they recovered a nine millimeter semi-automatic handgun, extended magazines, and to hatch it. Also found is a liquid, we believe to be gasoline, and a bag containing consumer grade fireworks and a hobby fuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: This is a picture of that bag of fireworks the Police Commissioner just mentioned. And late this afternoon detectives located a U-haul van that they believe is connected to who they say is a person of interest.
Tonight, the search is underway for that man, 62 year old Frank James. The subway violence caught the attention of President Biden as well who just yesterday announced new steps to try to curb gun violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: My wife, Jill and I are praying for those who are injured and all those touched by that trauma. We`re grateful for all the first responders who jumped into action, including civilians, civilians, who didn`t hesitate to help their fellow passengers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: And if it seems like there`s been a lot of gun violence lately, you`re right. Mass shootings are on the rise here in the United States. According to the data compiled by the Gun Violence Archive, there have already been 131 mass shootings so far this year. That`s about one a day.
So, let`s bring in NBC`s Ron Allen. He`s live at the scene in Brooklyn. Ron, let`s start with this man, this person of interest. What do we know about him?
RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that he has ties to Philadelphia and Wisconsin, according to the police. We believe he rented this U-haul van in Philadelphia and drove here, was found a few miles from the scene of the attack. The police said that he was sitting on a railway, on a subway car in the rear corner, wearing a helmet of this construction workers vest. And that at some point, he put on a gas mask, set off the smoke bombs and then open fire.
He got off some 33 rounds. And it is a miracle that no one was killed in these close quarters. Then how he escaped from there is unclear. And he`s been on the run ever since. And we don`t know why he did this. But clearly, he seemed to have something very, very sinister in mind based on what he was carrying in that bag. And he was on a train that was headed from here in Brooklyn, on into New York City and whether that was the final destination, or whether this wasn`t a destination that is unclear, but it seems that that he was probably intending to do more than set off of a smoke bomb in a neighborhood in Brooklyn, when Manhattan is just ahead.
We`ve also seen some YouTube videos that he`s posted, rants laced with profanity in some cases about all kinds of complaints that he has about society and the world generally. Some are about the mayor of New York so much so that they have increased security around Eric Adams today because of that, but at this hour, the search continues. It`s somewhat surprising, perhaps that they have not found him because things move very quickly. The key was finding keys to that U-haul van amongst the materials that the gunman, the suspect left on the train for whatever reason, that led the police to this van and lend it to the suspect and the pictures that we`ve seen of him, and now the search continues. Stephanie.
[23:05:16]
RUHLE: All right, Ron, stay close. If there are any developments, please, please come back to us.
With that, let`s bring in our experts this evening. Clint Watts, West Point graduate, Army veteran, former FBI Special Agent and a distinguished research fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute. And Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence.
Frank, the police call Frank James, this guy a person of interest. What is that missing piece of information that would make him an actual suspect?
FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: Well, it sounds like there`s extreme, extreme caution tonight, Stephanie, you don`t want to ruin somebody and their reputation. You don`t want someone in the public to act out violently against somebody if indeed, they`re innocent. So we know he rented this vehicle, but we don`t know for sure that he actually was the shooter yet. And what`s the gap here? Smoke, confusion, chaos, nobody able to say yes, indeed, that is the guy reluctance on the part of law enforcement to say, we`ve got our guy, we just can`t find him yet. So person of interest is the right way to go all around here.
It could theoretically be somebody who rented this van or this vehicle and had it stolen from them. It could be somebody who unwittingly, unknowingly was involved in this or it could be the shooter. They`re being very careful about this right now. And let`s understand something, the entire nation is looking for this guy, U.S. Marshals, police officers, FBI, it`s only a matter of time before this person of interest is found. And we`ll know whether he turns into the suspect.
RUHLE: Clint, what stood out to you about this attack and the specific target a rush hour subway car in Brooklyn?
CLINT WATTS, FORMER COUNTER TERRORISM DIVISION FORMER CONSULTANT: Yeah, what`s interesting, Stephanie, is there`s all sorts of things that are common with potentially a terrorist attack. But then don`t make sense once you start to give more details. For example, this is obviously rush hour subway car, we`ve seen that in attacks in London, Madrid, other train stations, throughout history, but at the same point, this individual went in, donned a mask, throw smoke, and then didn`t actually kill anybody. He wounded many people was very tragic event, but seemed to have been just kind of firing sporadically.
There also — it doesn`t seem to be any pattern to the targets. Usually when there`s some sort of ideological, social, political motivation around terrorism, or if it`s a criminal act, there`s some sort of logic around what the targets are. Here, he seems to whoever this person is, it seems to have just picked a car at random and started shooting. That`s also quite strange. I think another bigger piece of this is we don`t see any sort of manifesto, we — if it is tied to this individual, there`s lots of strange social media posts, but they`re not really indicative of anything that makes a whole lot of sense if you`ve watched them.
So putting all this together, it is not what you would stereotypically see. I think, if anything, it reminds me of that attack that we saw in Las Vegas many years ago, where when you get to the end of the day, it doesn`t really line up very, very neatly is a criminal bond, or does it really tie into some sort of a revenge shooting? Or does it make any sense from the perspective of a terrorist attack.
RUHLE: Frank, the surveillance cameras weren`t working, how damaging is that to the investigation?
FIGLIUZZI: Well, it`s not helpful. And, you know, Clint, and I both could cite cases we`ve worked where, you know, if too frequently, where the cameras simply malfunction or don`t work. The good news is, there`s redundancy in the system in New York City. So they`re tracking before the attack. This person wearing a safety vest and neon hard hat, they`ll be finding that person if he wore that right up to the attack. And then afterwards, even if he discarded it, they should see it in subsequent stops, streets. storefront cameras, they`ll see it. We`ll have a — an imagery record of this guy doing this. And boy, Stephanie, do we have a forensic package here for prosecutors? You bet, the gun left behind, the gas masks, the gas canisters left behind a plethora of evidence for prosecutors to tear into DNA, fingerprints all potentially latent, left on that evidence. It really raises the question of whether this was an a larger attack interrupted. Why this train? Why then, why couldn`t he have hit Manhattan? Why did he discard everything? This hopefully will become clear once he`s interviewed and has a chance to explain.
[23:10:00]
RUHLE: But was it a terror attack? The NYPD says it would not call it an act of terror but the mayor he`s got no problem saying it, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS, (D) NEW YORK CITY: Anytime you have a person that use a smoke device, you have a person that discharges a weapon in the system that appear to have placed a gas mask on his face. That is a person that is intentionally trying to terrorize our system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Clint, do you agree an act of terrorism?
WATTS: No, it`s probably not going to line up as an act of terrorism. Terrorism is the use of violence or the threat of violence in pursuit of political change. It`s usually in support of a political, social or religious ideology. It doesn`t seem to correspond to that.
Now, there could be evidence that we just don`t know about at this time. And I think that`s why you heard both, John Miller earlier with the NYPD and some of some of the folks that were on the scene sort of rule it out initially, and then kind of have to walk those, that language back. Terrorizing people, yes, but an act of terrorism unless there`s some sort of connection. What this will be is attempted murder. And let`s hope that no one dies, because that would be murder charges. It has to be connected to some broader political objective. And I don`t think you`ll see that if first — if we do find out by the way that it is tied to some of these videos that we`ve seen online. I think when you watch any of those videos, you`ll find what looks to be a pattern of just someone who might be mentally disturbed, it is quite concerning when you look at it. He`s kind of randomly all over to lots of different videos. So really, it`s got to be narrowed down and they got to prove that this individual this person of interest, if that is who they think it is, they`re going to tie down that they were actually there. In terms of the legal code, I don`t think it`s going to meet that threshold.
RUHLE: Every time we see one of these terrible attacks, frankly, say we have to do something about gun control. This comes, this attack one day after the President took steps to track down on ghost guns. He also named a nominee to lead the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Do you think what the President is doing will make a difference?
FIGLIUZZI: Well, I think the larger question is, why is it left to a president to actually redefine firearms and nibble around the periphery of the gun problem? Because Congress isn`t acting on it. They could do some very simple things about closing the gun show loophole with background checks, requiring someone to wait to get a gun until we work a discrepancy out with their background check. Those two bills have been pending forever. So the President did what he could do within his authority by trying to regulate and redefine a gun to address ghost guns.
The ATF hasn`t had a director for something like seven years, Stephanie, because we can`t seem to get politicians to agree on what a nominee should look like over gun enforcement. So yes, getting a hold of ghost guns is important because the manufacturer of it is really manufacturing a firearm, whether it`s parts, pieces, components, trigger, assembly, and if you buy those parts in a kit, you are buying a firearm, it needs to be stamped with a serial number, if you need to have a background investigation.
Look, we`re talking about this terrible event today. Good news, it was a branded Glock 9 millimeter pistol is going to have multiple stamps of serial numbers on it, they can trace it to where it was purchased. That`s helpful. That`s why we need serial numbers on guns but even greater. We need federal legislation to address this. New York has very tight strict gun laws. The magazines that were found at the scene extended capacity, they`re illegal in the state of New York. Why aren`t illegal everywhere?
RUHLE: Curbing gun violence should not be political. It is about public safety. Clint Watts, Frank Figliuzzi, thank you both so much. Stay close in case we get some breaking news out of Brooklyn.
Let`s bring in Sarah Feinberg. She`s the former president of the New York City Transit Authority. She`s also a former Senior Obama administration official. One of the roles she`s had, Federal Railroad Administrator.
Sarah, I`m so glad you`re here. I have got questions for you. Up until just a few months ago, you are in charge of our subways.
SARAH FEINBERG, INTERIM PRESIDENT NYC TRANSIT AUTHORITY: Yeah.
RUHLE: Right now, people are petrified to get back on the train. Would you ride the subway tomorrow?
FEINBERG: Oh, yeah, I rode the subway here tonight. And I take my daughter on the subway every day to go to school because even on the darkest day, and the scariest day, the New York City subway system is still the safest and most efficient way to get around this city.
RUHLE: Earlier today, the current head of the transit agency praised the crew who quickly pulled the other train out of the station amid all that chaos.
FEINBERG: Yep.
RUHLE: Are the teams trained for something like this?
FEINBERG: Well, the teams at New York City Transit are the most professional, most highly trained workforce in this country. Every day that I was president, New York City Transit I was — it was such an honor to work with them. So they are quick, they`re professional they know exactly what they`re doing and they did exactly what they`re supposed to do today, which was they saw the chaos in the platform, and they pulled the train out, and they got a lot of people to safety.
[23:15:12]
RUHLE: There are so many questions right now about surveillance cameras in the station, and why they weren`t working. Does every station have them? And who`s responsible for making sure they work? It seems like whenever you need them, they`re broken.
FEINBERG: Yeah. So there are now cameras in every single station in the system, which is huge. There`s 472 stations in the New York City transit system, which is the largest number of stations in the world for a system.
When I became president of New York City Transit a little more than two years ago, I think 30%, 35% of stations had it. We absolutely said we`re getting cameras in every single station by the end of 2021. And kudos to New York Transit, they did it by September of 2021. So, are there enough cameras? I don`t think there are enough cameras yet. I`d like to have cameras on every single platform.
RUHLE: How many of them are working? Well, it was — when it counts, it seems that they`re not.
FEINBERG: So, I don`t know the details of why this specific stations cameras weren`t working. My guess is that the cameras were working, and that the feed was down. I think we`ll find out more tomorrow. I think the New York City Transit, MTA will have more to say because I`m sure they`re looking at that. My guess is the cameras were working and feed was down, there are old cameras. And there`s new cameras. So there were existing cameras in the system, 30%, 35% of stations had them. Hardened old cameras, good cameras, good technology, that feedback to NYPD and feedback to MTA.
In recent months, we`ve been putting new cameras in the system, smaller, less expensive, more agile, go to the camp, you know of an event has happened, you go to the camera, you pull the card, download the footage. Every day, the NYPD is putting out photos of folks they`re looking for, they want tips on, those crimes did not happen in the subway stations. They had happened topside. And then people come down to the subway stations and our cameras capture them. So we`ve been helping the NYPD for years to find all kinds of folks that are looking for because that`s how good the camera system and the system is.
RUHLE: Earlier today, Mayor Adams sounded open to possibly installing something like metal detectors or some other security technology. That sounds good, people, you know, feel safer.
FEINBERG: Yeah.
RUHLE: But is that realistic? We`ve got over 3 million riders every weekday.
FEINBERG: Yeah, I didn`t hear what the mayor said. My guess is, he is looking for new technologies that can improve safety. And that`s great. We should have that. Metal detectors in the system, I think maybe as a one off where you`re going to a big event but throughout the system, it`s — that`s going to shut the system down and slow it down. We had — before the pandemic with 9 million riders a day, right? 9 million people were using this system every day. It`s going to be hard to get back to that number. But you certainly don`t get to that number if you`re standing in line at a metal detector, so that would be tough.
RUHLE: How much does what happened today hurt the efforts to get back to that number?
FEINBERG: Look, it`s hard. But anytime there is a one off attack, an active shooter, a terror incident in the United States, we always hear from our elected officials and from others who are supposed to be protecting us. This is a one off, generally you`re safe. The same thing goes here, people are generally safe. The New York City subway system is the safest way to get around New York. But my kids in it, I wouldn`t put them in a car, right? I don`t like them in cars. I want — I feel safe in the subway system.
But there`s a difference between a system that is safe and a system that feels safe. And right now this system doesn`t feel safe. And it`s not just because of what happened today. It hasn`t felt safe for large groups of people for quite a while now, for a couple of years.
Well, look, I think it`s one thing to walk into the subway system as a man in your 30s or 40s or 50s. And like have the world, you know, as your oyster. I think it`s another thing to walk into the subway system right now as a woman, as an elderly person, as someone who`s vulnerable, as an Asian American and feel safe. That`s a different — that`s a different feeling. And it`s not, it doesn`t feel good to large swathes of the population right now.
And I think to the mayor`s credit, and the governor`s credit, the former governors credit, they recognize that early, they`re talking about it a lot. They`re taking a lot of steps that they need to take to make sure that people feel safe. This — you live here, I live here for your viewers who don`t live here, the city doesn`t work if the subway system doesn`t work. And it doesn`t work if people aren`t using it because they don`t feel safe. So we have a ways to go.
RUHLE: All right, Sarah Feinberg, so great to have you here tonight. Thank you so much.
FEINBERG: Good to be with you.
RUHLE: Coming up, Russia warns the conflict that President Biden now calls genocide is far from over. The latest on the horrific war in Ukraine.
And later, we have not seen prices rise this fast since Olivia Newton-John was topping the charts. What is driving inflation and what can be done to bring it down? THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a Tuesday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:24:27]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Your family budget, your ability to fill up your tank, none of us should hinge on whether a dictator declares war and commits genocide, a half a world away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Did you catch that? President Biden now calling Putin`s war a genocide. He says Vladimir Putin is trying to wipe out the idea of even being Ukrainian as Ukraine`s military braces for more intense fighting in the East. NBC`s Gabe Gutierrez is there reporting on some of the horrors prompting the President`s comment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every day since Russia`s retreat new atrocities are being revealed.
[23:25:03]
This is Makariv about 45 miles west of Kyiv, Russian forces took the villages surrounding it, but were held back from the city center by Ukrainian soldiers. This man who asked us not to show his face is one of those defenders. Today, he showed us what`s left at this apartment that authorities just searched for the first time.
(On camera): The rocket tore through this wall and landed right here in this kitchen. The whole apartment incinerated. Neighbor say, an older woman lived here and sadly her remains are still in the other room.
(Voice-over): So far, local officials say they found 130 bodies here. Today, Russian President Vladimir Putin said peace talks with the Ukrainians had reached a dead end.
He also insisted his main goal is to help the people of Eastern Donbass region. Until that, the teacher Katarina (ph) heads back here in Makariv who showed us how Russian rockets shattered her world in her music classroom.
(On camera): The destruction stretches for miles. This was a kindergarten. It was shelled at least twice. Clearly not a military target.
(Voice-over): Fortunately, none of the children were here at the time, but Katarina told us Russian troops shot and killed a janitor as he tried to escape the city with his family.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RUHLE: Oh my goodness, luckily, the children weren`t there. But now they can never go back. Our thanks to NBC`s Gabe Gutierrez for that really important reporting. It`s tough to see, but we need to.
With that, let`s bring in retired Army Lieutenant General Steph Twitty. He is the former Deputy Commander of the United States European Command, and Ivo Daalder, former U.S. Ambassador to NATO. He`s now the President of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. Gentlemen, welcome. I`m glad you`re both here.
General, the White House is expected to announce a new $750 million military aid package for Ukraine, quite literally, the big guns. What do you think about that?
LT. GEN. STEPH TWITTY, U.S. ARMY, (Ret.): Well, it`s great to hear about this new package there, Stephanie. But I will tell you, this package is vastly different than the packages that you`ve seen going to Ukraine previously. These are offensively designed weapons, which the Ukrainians will need if they`re going to fight down in Donbass.
I noticed when I looked through some of the items, the Mi-17 transport helicopter, that`s a Russian helicopter, is primarily used for transportation. But you can put a gun system on that to fight well, that will be critical for them, because now they`re in the same predicament as the Russians, when it comes to their extended logistical lines, they`ll be able to get logistics, and they can also put troops in that particular hot helicopter to get them to the point of need.
I also saw drones, which would be very helpful going against tanks, particularly the artillery pieces, as you know, the Russians love to use artillery and missiles and so forth. So those drones will be very helpful as well. So a good looking package from what I can tell.
RUHLE: Ambassador, we mentioned it before, the President calling this genocide for the first time, why is that such a big deal?
IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, it`s a big deal, because one, of course, a lot of damage is being done by the Russians in the name of denazifying Ukraine and in some ways, the goal here is to get rid of to eliminate a part of the Ukrainian population, if not the Ukrainian state as such. So for the President to call this genocide is, is serious because it is a major escalation in the rhetoric that we have seen, but also enhances the need of the United States, under our own laws to respond. And as General Twitty said, the kind of capabilities that are now being sent to Ukraine, the Europeans are doing the same, providing tanks, providing anti- aircraft missiles, providing howitzer and artillery is all designed to say, we cannot allow this man, this Russia, this force that has inflicted such incredible brutality, terror, really on the population of Ukraine to succeed. And we`re going to do everything possible militarily short of our getting involved directly, militarily, to help the Ukrainians to achieve that. That`s an important step. And it`s not just the United States, it`s European countries doing the same thing. It`s late in the sense that of how quickly this equipment was being sent. But now it`s being sent. And hopefully, that can make a major difference even in the fight for the Donbass, which after all, is a fight that`s been going on for the past eight years.
RUHLE: General, for weeks, we have seen the city of Mariupol get completely devastated. And now there are reports of a possible chemical attack back there. I want to share what we heard from the U.S. Secretary of State about this.
[23:30:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We`re not in a position to confirm anything. I don`t think the Ukrainians are, either. We had credible information that Russian forces may use a variety of riot control agents, including tear gas, mixed with chemical agents that would cause stronger symptoms to weaken and incapacitate in transit Ukrainian fighters and civilians, as part of the aggressive campaign to take Mariupol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: General, Mariupol is now completely cut off, isolated by the Russians, will we ever really know what happened there?
TWITTY: So I think we will not know for quite some time. As you know, the Russians are getting ready to start their major offenses in the east. And their intent is to take the Donbass, which includes Luhansk and Donetsk and also continue to push down to Mariupol. If they connect the Donbass with Mariupol, then they have their land bridge.
And in my view, they will continue South, Kherson, also Odessa will be at play form. And so it will be a while before we can get some type of verification into Mariupol. So we know what really happened. And in addition, these operations are going to take longer than Putin`s 9 May Victory Day that he determined to be victorious in this battle. And so it will be a while before we ever know what happens to Mariupol.
I would tell you, continue to watch this, because with the new gen coming on board, they`re going to be more Mariupol throughout Ukraine. And so this general is ruthless. He`s going to use chemical weapons. He`s going to rebel more cities than what we`ve seen. And so standby for more of this.
RUHLE: That new general who was once nicknamed, The Butcher of Syria. Gentlemen, thank you so much, General Steph Twitty and Ambassador Ivo Daalder, I appreciate you joining us this evening.
When we come back, prices are soaring to a 40 year high, when could they cool off? We`ll get into that when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:36:58]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Putin`s invasion of Ukraine has driven up gas prices and food prices all over the world. The two largest grand producers in the world, China and — should be, Ukraine and Russia are not doing what they usually do. So everything`s going up. We saw today`s inflation data 70% of the increase in prices in March came from Putin`s price hike in gasoline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: President Biden in Iowa today after the release of economic data that shows inflation is hitting a 40 year high in March of eight and a half percent from this time last year. Recent NBC polling shows more than one in five Americans ranked the cost of living as the most important issue for them.
With us tonight to discuss, Justin Wolfers, a Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan and Mark McKinnon, former adviser to both George W. Bush and John McCain. He`s also among the co- hosts of the Circus on Showtime.
Justin, inflation was already here, then the warhead causing commodities to surge. And this idea that things would improve when COVID was behind us and supply chain issues went away. Well, they didn`t go away now that we`re facing more lockdowns in China. None of this sounds good for the economy. But I invited you here tonight, because I saw your tweet this morning where you said things might be about to get better, how, why, enlighten us?
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS & PUBLIC POLICY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: With a simple version of why things are going to get better is, this is an economy recovering from COVID. The kind of — the first effects of that would cause were to cause unemployment to skyrocket. Well, that`s come just about all the way back down. The next effects were that turned the economy upside down and caused a lot of prices to rise. And as the economy renormalizes a lot of those things are going to return back to normal. So there`s a lot of one off factors, we`ve been really unlucky over the past year or so. But those things like high gas prices, are hopefully going to start to fall out of numbers. And while inflation remains high, it probably won`t be this bad. So today may be as bad as it gets.
RUHLE: Mark, President Biden is blaming Putin for good reason. But will midterm voters by that?
MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO JOHN MCCAIN & GEORGE W. BUSH : It`s tough, Stephanie. I mean, just ask Jimmy Carter about his second term presidency. The problem is that — I mean, first of all, when you`re explaining you`re losing in politics, the second problem is that this is just throwing a huge wet blanket over a lot of other news and a lot of it`s good. But unfortunately, none of us getting through and it`s by the way, it`s not just, you know, it`s affecting everybody and disproportionately Democrats.
I saw some black focus groups with Terrance Woodbury did last week. You know, during the confirmation of the first American — the first female black Supreme Court Justice, all they were talking about was inflation in there and rising prices. So everybody`s talking about. It`s hitting everybody. And that`s the problem. But to — I`m not the economist here, we just heard from the economist but I will say that, there is some upside here and there`s news when you parse through all this and part of the news is that when you take energy and food off the table and obvious, and granted, that`s a lot of equation, but when you take those off the table price has actually declined 0.4%, which is all related to the relief of the COVID problems, which created the supply chain problem. So, those things are actually easing. So there is some good news.
[23:40:24]
And the question is, you know, can enough of that get through and can enough change to change the political outlook for Democrats in November?
RUHLE: But it`s hard to take those things off the table, when you look at the full picture. And the President`s trying to do that, Justin, and gas prices, huge part of inflation. And today, he announced his plan to now use ethanol to lower prices. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I`m here today, because homegrown biofuels have a role to play right now, right now, as we work to get — as we work to get prices under control and reduce the cost for families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Can this make a dent?
WOLFERS: That was small dent but, you know, the biggest ingredient into gasoline is of course, oil. Oil prices are determined in world markets. And they reflect a lot of what`s happening in Russia in Ukraine.
Hey, can we follow up on what Mark said, which is inflation is overshadowing what in some cases is a pretty optimistic story, which is right now, unemployment 3.6%. Within a month or two, it`s likely we will have the lowest unemployment rate in the United States in over 50 years. So people can find jobs. They`re paying at the supermarkets real. But it`s a lot easier to afford those prices when you get a paycheck.
RUHLE: A paycheck, but the problem is all that wage growth that we`ve been talking about over the last year gets wiped out when you factor in the higher prices.
WOLFERS: Yes, although a lot of us worry a lot about inflation at the moment, because things like food and gas, they`re the prices rising the most. They`re the most — they`re the biggest share of the consumption basket of low income people. On the flip side, to the extent that we`re seeing wage growth, it`s actually been stronger among low income people. So perhaps real wages after inflation are actually rising for those folks, even if they`re not rising for folks higher up in the income distribution.
RUHLE: President Obama was speaking to our colleague Al Roker today about that good news and the economy, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Inflation is a real issue. A lot of it is having to do with the COVID and supply chains. And now, Putin`s gas tax, essentially, by virtue of his invasion of Ukraine. But the underlying economy, there`s a good story to tell. Democrats have to go out there and tell the story. Ultimately, the voters decide on this thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Mark, this is what you do, you craft these stories, and how do you talk about those good things. But what — because what they`ve done is helped the rich, right? For people who have white collar jobs, people who own their homes, people who invest in the stock market, they`ve saved a lot, they`ve made a lot. But for those living paycheck to paycheck, things only got worse. How do you tell that good story?
MCKINNON: Well, I think Justin made a great point, which is that when you talk about the jobs, the job market and the job situation, the place was really improved as for low economic workers, and the reality is that most of them now can find jobs. Most of them can find jobs that pay more than they were making before, and in many cases, a lot more than what they were making before. Is it keeping up with inflation? Not necessarily. But I think we`re at a point where the jobs are scarce, the wages are rising, and I think the other factors are bound to kick in. So it could equalize itself over time. And the fact is that there`s a great story to tell about jobs and wages.
RUHLE: We are clearly in an economic recovery. It is a great job market, wages are up, they have to find a way. Quickly before we go, though, Mark, you know what gets people to vote. We talk all the time about how hugely important voting issues are, preserving our democracy, the most important issues, but when it comes time to what actually gets people to vote, is it things like gas prices and grocery prices?
MCKINNON: Well, what gets them to vote is when they`re pissed off. And reality is the problem is that Republicans are pissed off at Joe Biden because they hold him responsible. And Democrats, frankly, are feeling depressed, you know, because they feel like they`re going to let him down. He`s a guy at the at the wheel, and it`s happening under his watch. So the problem is, and you know what you want any election what you should watch is the enthusiasm among voter groups. Republicans are enthusiastic because they`re mad. Democrats are depressed because they`re sad.
RUHLE: Well, if people go out and vote when they`re pissed off, it sounds like we`re going to have huge voter turnout in the next elections. Justin Wolfers, Mark McKinnon, thank you both for joining us tonight.
Coming up, one Republican governor says he wants — Wow, he wants his state to be the most pro-life state in the country. Is that what we`re going to see across the entire nation as the Supreme Court gets ready to decide on Roe? When THE 11TH HOUR continues.
[23:45:10]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KEVIN STITT, (R) OKLAHOMA: We want Oklahoma to be the most pro-life state in the country. We want to outlaw abortion in the state of Oklahoma.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:50:00]
RUHLE: Oklahoma`s Republican Governor Kevin Stitt made it official today. It will soon be a felony to perform almost all abortions there. Once a law is in effect, anyone convicted of performing the procedure could face up to 10 years in prison and $100,000 fine.
Recent state level polling is hard to find a Gallup has been asking whether abortion should remain legally national — legal nationally for nearly half a century. And the answer for most Americans has always been, yes.
Back with us tonight, Barbara McQuade, a Veteran Federal Prosecutor and a former U.S. Attorney, she`s also a Professor at the University of Michigan`s Law School. Barb, what makes this law in Oklahoma different from what we`ve seen in some other states?
BARBARA MCQUADE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, this one, Stephanie, goes even further than some of the other statutes that we`ve been seeing getting passed around the country. This one, number one, makes it a crime to perform an abortion, punishable by up to 10 years in prison. And unlike some of the other bills that say after 15 weeks, or after six weeks, there is no after any weeks in this one, it`s at the moment of conception. Any abortion after any period of time is prohibited under the statute. There is no exception for rape or incest. The only exception is to protect the life of the mother.
RUHLE: So much of this is circling around this idea that the Supreme Court could overturn Roe, more than a dozen states have these so called trigger laws that would automatically ban or impose maximum restrictions on abortions if Roe gets under — overturn, how would that work?
MCQUADE: Well, many of these states I think there`s 21 that have these called trigger laws that are in place that are already have on the books that it`s illegal to perform an abortion, as long as Roe is the law of the land that under the Supremacy Clause, those statutes are unenforceable. But if Roe gets overturned, immediately those laws are resuscitated back to life. And abortion becomes illegal in those states. And then there`s another five states that are ready to pass this legislation, if Roe should be overturned. So we`d be at 26 states more than half the states in the country would ban abortion.
RUHLE: Republicans have been working toward this for decades. And now we are watching them use more creative ways to basically just get abortion banned altogether. Could this be a successful long term strategy for them?
MCQUADE: I — you know, doesn`t it feel like we`re just living in the past that we`ve gone back in time 50 years ago, but it seems that they have been successful. And, you know, I liken it, Stephanie to the way ISIS views the world as the Islamic State. We want to impose our religion on everyone. And unless you follow our religion, you are against the law. You know, when you think about in this country, there are Catholics who say that life begins at conception. But there are Jews who say Life begins at birth. And there are Muslims who say life begins somewhere in between. And yet, what we`re saying here is that the religious view of this certain group is going to be able to impose their will on everyone else. And so, you know, I think there are a number of reasons that this flies in the face of our Constitution. And yet, this has been the driving force of a segment of the Republican Party for 50 years of packing the court of the Federalist Society of judges of textualism, and originalism. This is the culmination of that movement. And I think that we`re seeing why focusing on courts has been such an important part of their politics.
RUHLE: But in theory, Barb, laws get passed, because they`re supported by the voters who put those lawmakers in their seats. So does that mean when we see the governor of Oklahoma not hiding this proudly saying, this is what we`re going to do? Does that mean that this is what the majority of people from the state of Oklahoma want?
MCQUADE: Well, it`s interesting, because one thing that we have seen is through gerrymandering and voter suppression, we have seen the far right take hold of a lot more power than they actually represent in this country.
Now, they`re certainly states that have majority Republican Party and Republican voters. But if you look at the majority of people in the United States, mostly around urban centers, the majority of people are actually progressive and favor abortion.
RUHLE: Barb every time you`re here, you make us smarter. Thank you for joining us tonight. We`re going to leave it there.
MCQUADE: Thanks, Stephanie.
RUHLE: Coming up, how the late John Lennon`s son is using his father`s music for the first time to call for peace in Ukraine when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:58:50]
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, imagine Julian Lennon, son of the late Beatle John Lennon recently performed his father`s iconic song “Imagine” for the first time ever in public. That performance was part of a global citizens, Stand Up for Ukraine fundraising campaign for refugees. Notably, Julian had previously said he would never even consider playing the song unless it was the end of the world.
In a tweet he said he decided to perform his father song now because his lyrics reflect our collective desire for peace worldwide. Because within this song, we`re transported to a space where love and togetherness become our reality, if but for a moment in time. Here`s a portion of Julian`s performance.
(MUSIC)
[00:00:11]
RUHLE: A much needed moments of love and togetherness from Julian Lennon to take us off the air this evening.
And on that note, I wish you all a good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News. Thanks again for staying up late with us. I`ll see you at the end of tomorrow.