Updated
Summary
Three state Democrats calls out GOP regarding anti-LGBT laws in their states. Neil Rafferty of Alabama, Mallory McMorrow of Michigan and Ian Mackey of Missouri went viral for standing up for the LGBT, trans kids and their families. Georgia`s two Republican candidates, one endorsed by Donald Trump and the incumbent went on a debate regarding 2020`s election and not on policies.
Transcript
MEHDI HASSAN, MSNBC HOST: Justice Department says Manafort owes the U.S. government almost $3 million in penalties for hiding those accounts. Penalties the government has been trying to collect from Manafort for the last two years. And now they are asking a court to make him pay up.
Trump`s pardon looked like he put an end to Manafort`s accountability for hiding all that money he made doing pro-Putin dirty work in Ukraine. But now it looks like the U.S. justice system might not quite be finished with Paul Manafort.
That does it for us tonight. Rachel will be here on Monday, and I will see you Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. on my show here on MSNBC. And next week back on Peacock. Now it`s time for the last word. Jonathan Capehart is in for Lawrence tonight. Good evening, Jonathan.
JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Mehdi. The downside of this is that you`re in the studio I think right next to me, so I don`t — won`t get a chance to shake your hand and say great to see you.
HASSAN: Where are you — wherever you are.
CAPEHART: Thanks a lot, Mehdi. Have a good rest of the night.
HASSAN: Good night.
CAPEHART: So, we`re nearly six months out from the midterms and somehow the party downplaying the January 6th insurrection, defending overthrowing elections when they lose, and prosecuting an unrelenting culture war against — I`m just going to check my notes — kids and library books, could possibly win control of Congress.
Seems crazy? It`s crazy to Joe Biden. CNN is reporting today that Biden is gearing up for intense midterm campaigning. And is eager to unleash on the GOP. And for that campaign, he wants Democrats to return to the simple truth, one of his favorite catchphrases. Don`t compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative.
American elections are binary. You don`t get to pick perfect. It`s Democrats or the alternative. And Democrats across the country need to remind voters what the alternative is. The alternative, the Republican Party, isn`t just a big 10 for people with anti-small deed Democratic impulses, it`s also the party where homophobia, racism, and antisemitism aren`t seen as dealbreakers for voters.
According to a new political Morning Consult poll, only 47 percent of Republicans said a candidate being accused of antisemitism would be a major problem for them. Only 38 percent said racist remarks would be a major problem. And just 25 percent said they`d have a major problem with the candidate using homophobic language.
One Biden advisor told CNN, “Voters can easily believe that the country isn`t where they hoped, but also believe that they don`t want to turn it over to Marjorie Taylor Greene in `22 and Trump in `24.” One place where we`ve seen Democrats calling out Republican cynicism and shamelessness is in state houses.
Even President Biden saw Michigan state Senator Mallory McMorrow absolutely crush Republican attempts to smear her. She joined me on “The Last Word” last week and her first interview after this speech went viral.
(BNEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALLORY MCMORROW, MICHIGAN STATE SENATOR: I didn`t expect to wake up yesterday to the news that the senator from the 22nd district had overnight accused me by name of grooming and sexualizing children in an e-mail fundraising for herself. So, I sat on it for a while wondering why me.
And then I realized because I am the biggest threat to your hollow hateful scheme. Because you can`t claim that you are targeting marginalized kids in the name of, quote, “parental rights” if another parent is standing up to say no. People who are different are not the reason that our roads are in bad shape after decades of disinvestment or that health care costs are too high or that teachers are leaving the profession.
I want every child in the state to feel seen, heard, and supported, not marginalized and targeted because they are not straight, white and Christian. I know who I am. I know what faith and service means and what it calls for in this moment. We will not let hate win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: President Biden was so fired up by that speech, he called Senator McMorrow. She`ll join us again in a moment to talk about that. She is not the only Democratic state lawmaker taking the fight to the Republicans. Here`s Missouri state representative Ian Mackey calling out Republican cruelty, drawing on his own experience growing up gay among conservatives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IAN MACKEY, MISSOURI STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I was afraid of people like you growing up and I grew up in Hickory County Missouri. A group in a school district that vote tomorrow to put this in place. And for 18 years I walked around with nice people like you who took me to ball games, who told me how smart I was, and they went to the ballot and voted for crap like this.
[22:05:02]
And I couldn`t wait to get out. I couldn`t wait to move to a part of our state that would reject this stuff in a minute. I couldn`t wait. And thank God, I made it. I thank God, I made it out and I think every day of the kids who are still there who haven`t made it out, who haven`t escaped from this kind of bigotry. Gentleman, I`m not afraid of you anymore. Because you`re going to lose. You may win this today, but you`re going to lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: Now, meet the next Democrat who`s answered the call to fight back. Earlier this month, Republicans in Alabama push through a law that would criminalize gender affirming medications for trans kids including penalties of up to 10 years in prison for doctors and nurses who provide that type of care to minors. Alabama Democratic Representative Neil Rafferty couldn`t stop it, but he made sure to call out the cruelty and hypocrisy of the Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEIL RAFFERTY, ALABAMA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: — the face of our government. I don`t know where this became a platform issue for you all. I don`t know where this became a central core issue to pick on these kids, to pick on these families. I understand that you all are going to do what you`re going to do, but I am trying to appeal to you that this is not small government. That this, this is invasive. It`s hard enough growing up. Hard enough growing up being different. It`s even harder growing up being different and then have the state legislature, your elected officials, the leaders of the state to put a target on children`s backs. What`s going to happen is going to happen. Just don`t you dare call me a friend after this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: Joining us now is Alabama Democratic State Representative Neil Rafferty. Representative Rafferty, thank you so much for coming to “The Last Word.” I want to start with some breaking news. The Justice Department has just filed a lawsuit challenging this law and has asked a federal court in Alabama to block the law from going into effect for the time being. What`s your reaction to that? Is this a lifeline for trans kids in Alabama?
RAFFERTY: I think that this is a great — this is a great news. This is a great development to protect these children who are just trying to receive this affirming care that is medically appropriate for both their physical and mental health.
CAPEHART: You know, you made that passionate plea to your fellow lawmakers on April 7th. And the next day, Governor Kay Ivey signed the bill into law. Do you think your speech may have helped bring awareness of this law to the DOJ and may have led to them taking action?
RAFFERTY: Well, I certainly hope so. I think that there`s a lot of people who might discount Alabama or just say, hey, you know, Alabama`s going to what Alabama`s going to do. And I want to fervently disagree with that and say, you know, there`s good, kind, hardworking people down here who just want to be left alone, who just want the best for their families. So, to see the Biden administration taking active role through the DOJ to prosecute and to make sure and to protect these families. Like I said, it`s a very welcome development, absolutely.
CAPEHART: You made a great point in your speech. The so-called small government party is passing a law dictating medical decisions within a family. How have Republicans responded to that?
RAFFERTY: Well, I`ve had a number of conservatives across the state who have written me saying, you know, I don`t agree with you on much, but I do agree with you on this one point. So, I think that this is a point that will stick, that does have some impact, does have — does plant a seed of doubt into the proponents of these bills or the ones that would be voting them through in a way that you would`ve had otherwise.
I mean, I think that, you know, appealing to what they campaigned on and appealing to that and to the heart of humanity of this issue, I think that`s the way forward.
CAPEHART: Last question for you. You`re not the only state lawmaker inspiring people around the country, rebuking the politics of division. What`s your message to other Democrats in red states also facing anti-LGBTQ bills?
RAFFERTY: Do not be afraid. Go on, standup, speak out. You can`t sit back and take it. You have to stand up and fight back. That`s the only way that we`re going to do this. They are trying to push. This is a wave of these bills that are going through.
[22:10:00]
So, it`s time for Democrats to unite around this issue, make sure that they got their messaging right and make sure that they are pushing back as hard as they possibly can. Not just for the states, but for our family, for the children and for the whole LGBTQ community.
CAPEHART: Let me bring in a couple of other people. Michigan Democratic State Senator Mallory McMorrow and Missouri Democratic State Representative Ian Mackey. Thank you. It`s so great to see both of you, well, now all three of you on the screen right now.
But Senator McMorrow, before we go any further, I know you had a phone call with President Biden after your speech. He saw your speech. Tell us what he said — what he told you.
MCMORROW: I mean, first of all, I missed the first time he called. I was putting my daughter to bed, which is super embarrassing, but luckily, he called back the next day. And he just said, you know, you said what needed to be said and you said it beautifully. And it was a really wonderful conversation. And I was just so move that, you know, he`s an Irish Catholic. I grew up Irish Catholic, that he reached out and had that call.
CAPEHART: You know, Representative Mackey, we`ve been talking about Democrats fighting back. Do you think what you did can be a model for other Democrats who are wondering how to beat the Republicans at their own game?
MACKEY: Yes, I hope so. You know, I think all of us really have the conservative approach to this issue. We are looking to keep the government out of the lives of these families. I don`t know what could be more conservative than that.
And you know, in my most recent remarks on the floor were about, you know, the two Republican governors in our country who have vetoed this legislation and said exactly that. That they don`t understand the science. That they don`t understand this issue. This is something new to them.
And so, they`re going to side on — they`re going to err on the side of mercy and of compassion. And they`re going to keep the government out of it for now. That`s the conservative approach and that is — that is what should bring us together.
CAPEHART: You know, Senator McMorrow, what about the idea of Republicans taking on children? I`m astounded by the fact that they are willing to — I can`t remember which one of you talked about putting a target on the backs of children with these — with what they`re doing. What do you make of that, that they`re willing to go after children for political gain?
MCMORROW: I mean, it`s inexcusable. It`s hateful and vile, and I think that that`s why, you know, Democrats, and it`s no coincidence that the three of us were young Democrats in state houses right here. Call it out, call it out for what it is. You can`t claim to be protecting children if you`re only protecting some children. So, we are in the right. We stand for families in our communities and we`ve got to say it and say it loudly.
CAPEHART: You know, Representative Mackey, you ended your speech by saying that your Republican opponents were going to lose in the long run. So, I got to ask you, where does your optimism come from?
MACKEY: Well, you know, they`ve lost the fight so far when it`s come to the LGB portion of the LGBT movement, frankly. You know, they have taken us on when it comes to marrying who we want to love. They`ve taken us on and fights when it comes to the rights that gays and lesbians have secured in this country.
You know, for the most part, obviously, still work to do, but we have secured some major wins on that front. And so now they`re turning to the most vulnerable in our community. These transgender children are the most vulnerable members of the LGBT community, and they know that. And because they`re bullies, those are the folks they`re targeting. I think given the success of the movement thus far, I think they`re going to lose, but it`s going to take all of us to stop them.
CAPEHART: Right, right. And Senator McMorrow, you know, longtime political strategist James Carville took note of your speech and told my paper, “The Washington Post,” that it, was quote, “An enormously effective piece of communication.” And that he`d show this clip as an instructional video. Why do you think your speech resonated with so many people?
MCMORROW: You know, it really, it took back our own identity. For too long, we have seated grounded that Republican stand for family and parental rights and faith. Faith is important to you. And I think taking that back and saying, right now it`s at target on the back of LGBT kids, especially trans kids.
Tomorrow it`s going to be something else. We know that. This is Scott Galloway this morning. “Weapons of mass distraction.” To distract you from the fact that Republicans do not have any policy plans to help anybody else. So, whether you`re the parent of a trans kid or not, this is hurting you. And I think that really resonated and it`s something that we need to carry forward into the midterms.
CAPEHART: I want to end this episode of the Avengers here with Representative Rafferty.
[22:15:00]
You said at the end of our conversation, Democrats, don`t be afraid. Expand on that.
RAFFERTY: There are not enough LGBTQ people to push forward by ourselves particularly in elected office. So, we need every single one of our allies to be stepping up and joining arms with us to push back on what they are doing, which is targeting children and their families who are already in a vulnerable position in order to score cheap political points. And we cannot let them get away with it.
The thing is, they are depending on this being an uphill messaging battle. And we have got to beat them at it. We have got to speak out and speak up against it to make sure that folks know that this is wrong, that this is not right, and that this is on the wrong side of history.
CAPEHART: Alabama State Representative Neil Rafferty, Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow, Missouri State Representative — a lot of states — Missouri State Representative Ian Mackey, three of my heroes on one screen. Thank you so much for coming on the show tonight and for everything that you are doing.
Coming up, Republican Party values were on full display at the second debate between Georgia`s Republican governor and the Trump backed senate loser attempting to oust him in the primary. Stacey Abrams campaign manager, Lauren Groh-Wargo, will join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
CAPEHART: Georgia`s Republican governor debated his Trump-backed primary challenger for the second time last night in a primary race that literally seems to be about whether the 2020 election was rigged and stolen.
There was little debate about actual policy or what the candidates will do to address issues affecting Georgia voters. But, there were a lot of lies about stolen elections and kissing up to Donald Trump even from the Republican who Donald Trump is on a mission to defeat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID PERDUE, GEORGIA GUBERNATOPRIAL CANDIDATE: Folks, the election in 2020 was rigged and stolen. The madness we see in the Biden administration started right here in Georgia when Brian Kemp caved to let radical Democrats steal the election. I`m proud to have Donald Trump`s endorsement. I believe with that, and with everyone`s help, and vote, we will stop this madness and we will beat Stacey Abrams.
BRIAN KEMP, GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I worked hard for President Trump. I worked hard for both of our United States senators, and our whole Republican ticket up and down the ballot in the middle of a global pandemic, I might add. But you know, when we did not win, I was as frustrated as anyone else. And we passed the strongest Election Integrity Act in the country.
But you know, when I was Secretary of State, I worked hard for secure licenses, as soon as the Obama Justice Department implement a citizenship check, defending our photo ID laws, fighting Stacey Abrams, I don`t know how many times in those liberal groups. And you know what? Nobody cared back then, but I did what I told people I would do. But I`m not —
UNKNOWN: That is your time Mr. Kemp.
KEMP: — anymore.
PERDUE: Blah, blah, my goodness. I mean, this is — it`s more of the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: Blah, blah, blah. It is more of the same. They literally spent the last debate arguing about the 2020 election. The November election will be the first one held since new voter suppression laws were passed last year. Here is Democratic candidate for governor, Stacey Abrams, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STACEY ABRAMS, GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I am concerned about Georgia`s role in the 2024 presidential election. We are one of the states where if these laws as they stand are administered by the current candidates who espoused the big lie, we could very well risk Georgia being one of the states that invalidates or nullifies the outcome of an election.
And that should terrify everyone. Georgia`s election is not just about Georgia. Our election is about whether we are protecting and defending democracy or whether we are going to succumb to the lies, the misinformation, and the intentional distraction that has been the last two years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: Joining us now is Lauren Groh-Wargo, the manager of Stacey Abrams` campaign for governor of Georgia. Lauren, great to see you again. It`s been a long time. I would love your take on the Republican race.
LAUREN GROH-WARGO, CAMPAIGN MANAGER OF STACEY ABRAMS: Well, Stacey Abrams apparently was on a stage, Jonathan. They mentioned her name about 16 times in both two debates. And it was a big giant, big liar, and a mini big liar. Both of them running to the right. And it`s a complete re-litigation of the past, who is tougher on voter fraud, et cetera, et cetera.
And no conversation about what is good for Georgians or what Georgians want or need from their government. It`s all looking backwards. No looking ahead. And all about the politics of subtraction. The politics of voter suppression. The politics of division, just like your past panel talked about.
CAPEHART: You know, this is the first elections since Georgia enacted restrictive voting laws. What is the Abrams campaign doing differently given these changes to the voting process?
GROH-WARGO: Well first, we are out here every single day talking to Georgians, listening to Georgians about what they would like for the state. We`re down here on the coast campaigning in Glenn County, and we were talking about our positive message and what Georgians want for their future. So that`s number one.
[22:25:032]
Number two is we`re proud to be on the ballot with Senator Raphael Warnock and Democrats up and down the ballot, with that positive vision so that we can get a really strong Democratic partner for the state, so that all these federal money that Brian Kemp is taking credit for giving out that we could actually really optimize.
I mean, it`s pretty stunning, Jonathan. Next week here in Georgia, a third hospital is going to close during the global pandemic in Brian Kemp`s administration. Why? Because he has continued to refuse to expand Medicaid.
Mike Pence, John Kasich, they all expanded Medicaid. But here in Georgia, no. We cannot get Medicaid expanded. We have hospitals closing around the state during a pandemic because this guy just does not care about kids or families.
And so, there are really very significant issues at stake in our state. And that`s what Georgians want to talk to us about. They are not interested in what Donald Trump or some other residents of South Florida and the Republican Party think. They are really interested in their lives and livelihood. And that is where our current governor just has really fallen down on the job.
CAPEHART: You know, this week a federal judge ruled against a law that allowed the sitting governor to raise unlimited funds before the primary. It was a law that was signed into effect by Governor Brian Kemp to benefit Governor Brian Kemp.
GROH-WARGO: It seems familiar, doesn`t it?
CAPEHART: Yes, doesn`t it?
GROH-WARGO: He has a very long track record of using his position of power to abuse it to accrue more power. And so, we took him to federal court. And we didn`t win the first time, so we took him back. And this week, we had a big win. And he got a $5 million head start on our campaign. He gave himself an unlimited ability to raise money. The rest of us had limits.
So, any viewers, you should go to staceyabrams.com. We have a midnight deadline tomorrow. We`re trying to catch up. But here is the thing, I know it`s a really kind of terrifying time in our country as really reflecting on your last panel.
I mean, here in Georgia, just this week the governor was signing legislation that allows parents to ban books in our schools. That allows bullies to basically prevent trans kids from playing sports with their friends, and on, and on.
I would posit that the Republican Party is the grand old party of home wrecking. This is a dangerous party that is anti our kids, allowing hospitals to close in the pandemic, banning books and preventing them from learning the truth.
And here in Georgia like many states around the country, Jonathan, Kemp and Republicans have signed a law to allow anybody to carry a loaded concealed weapon without a permit. We, previous to this year, had a permitting process that was preventing thousands of domestic abusers and criminals from being able to carry a concealed weapon. That is now gone.
And with the gun show loophole, it is very easy to get a gun and conceal it and carry it. All of this coming into context that gun violence is the top reason of death for kids in our country. And so, it`s not just trans kids, though it is trans kids that are most vulnerable kids. It`s not just K through 12 education that`s been under funded. It`s not just a lack of emergency rooms in rural black, and white communities.
This is a dangerous regime. And that`s what we`re talking to Georgians about. A positive vision to actually support kids and families and really espouse a family value and opportunity that we can all get behind. So, we hope folks will continue to engage in our campaign and our race down here with us and Warnock.
And a hopeful vision of what the south and what our country can be. And we can get it done. It`s not going to be easy, but just like we got a nice win in court this week, we will continue to fight. We will continue to win. We will have our setbacks, but we will continue to take the fight on.
CAPEHART: Lauren Groh-Wargo, thank you very much for coming to “The Last Word.” Coming up, we`ll get a live report from Kyiv. Plus, the United States is working to seize assets of sanctioned friends of Vladimir Putin, if they can find them. We`ll talk about exposing the hidden assets of oligarchs, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:33:55]
CAPEHART: The members of the Biden administration are in long step when it comes to their messaging on Vladimir Putin`s invasion of Ukraine.
The official stance of the United States government is Russia, under the directive of Vladimir Putin, is guilty of war crimes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We`ve seen — we`ve seen them leave behind horrifying evidence of their atrocities and war crimes in the areas they`ve tried to control. As long as the assault and atrocities continue, we`re going to continue to supply military assistance.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: You`ve heard the president call him a war criminal. So I don`t think the president thinks of President Putin as somebody who is a model in the world. He feels he`s — he views him as a pariah and somebody who is guilty of war crimes and of genocide. So I think the president`s comment speaks for itself.
ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We have said and I`m certainly willing to repeat it that it`s very clear that Russian forces have committed war crimes. There`s no question about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:34:51]
CAPEHART: The last person you saw speaking there was Defense Department Press Secretary John Kirby speaking at today`s Pentagon briefing. In addition to his duties as spokesperson, he serves as the assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs, directly advising Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin.
John Kirby joined the U.S. Navy in 1986 as an officer and served in uniform for 28 years. Retiring from service in 2015 with the rank of rear admiral.
Despite all those years of service, nothing John Kirby has seen in his career can help him explain the brutality Vladimir Putin is visiting on the people of Ukraine. Something John Kirby made very clear while speaking to reporters during today`s briefing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRBY: It`s hard to look at what he`s doing in Ukraine, what his forces are doing in Ukraine, and think that any ethical, moral individual could justify that. It`s difficult to look at the — sorry. It`s difficult to look at some of the images and imagine that any well-thinking, serious, mature leader would do that.
I didn`t mean to get emotional — I apologize for that. I don`t want to make this about me. It`s hard to square his, let`s just call it what it is, his bs. That this is about Nazism in Ukraine, and it`s about protecting Russians in Ukraine, and it`s about defending Russian national interests when none of them — none of them were threatened by Ukraine.
It`s hard to square that rhetoric by what he`s actually doing inside Ukraine to innocent people. Shot in the back of the head, hands tied behind their backs. Women, pregnant women being killed, hospitals being bombed.
I mean it`s just unconscionable. And I don`t know. I don`t have the — I don`t have the mental capacity to understand how you get — how you connect those two things. It`s just beyond me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: Joining us now is NBC News correspondent Cal Perry in Kyiv. Cal, yesterday you and your crew went to Bucha where Vladimir Putin`s forces killed hundreds of civilians. Tell us what you saw.
CAL PERRY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This is one of the things, I think that press secretary John Kirby was probably briefed on thoroughly, probably saw photos of this massacre, at least 400 people killed. But they`re still trying to identify all the bodies and to get those bodies linked up with the families.
Keep in mind, so many of the men who live in this country stayed behind and fought while their wives and their kids left the country. Well, many of those people now are returning.
What we witnessed was truly moving and horrifying. There are two American volunteers who are helping to move these bodies. And they talk about how difficult of a job it is, especially again coordinating with these families. And these families who have to come and identify their loved ones based on whatever little bit of information they have.
This woman identified her loved one just based on a sock. Here`s what one of the Americans told me about how the difficult the job is. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARRELL LOVELESS, AMERICAN VOLUNTEER IN UKRAINE: It`s unlike anything I`ve ever experienced. It`s probably the hardest thing I`ve ever had to do. Not just with transporting and moving the bodies but just to see the family members in pain. It rips my heart out ll. It`s just — it`s almost – it`s just hard. It`s hard. Very hard.
They need closure, and if I can help just one person find their loved one, then I feel like I made a difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: There was news tonight, we heard from the president that another mass grave has been discovered. This one here again, in the Kyiv region.
He gave a number and then later his press secretary said that number maybe incorrect but confirmed that there was a new grave discovered in just the last 24 hours. We expect to get some are more information about that over the weekend, Jonathan.
CAPEHART: Wow. Cal Perry in Kyiv, thank you very much for coming to THE LAST WORD.
Along with asking Congress for 33 billion dollars in military and humanitarian aid for Ukraine, the White House is also sending congress a proposal for a legislation that would hit Putin`s cronies where it really hurts, their bank accounts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We`re going to seize their yachts, their luxury homes, and other ill begotten gains. It`s going to ensure that when the oligarchs` assets are sold off, funds can be used directly to remedy the harm Russia caused and help build Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: The White House says this legislation would, quote, “establish new authorities for the forfeiture of property linked to Russian kleptocracy. Allow the government to use the proceeds to support Ukraine, and further strengthen related law enforcement tools.”
[22:39:52]
CAPEHART: But Putin allied Russian billionaires put the money they fleece from the Russian state in a lot of places including, plenty that are straight up illegal.
Our next guest was hard at work going after corrupt Russian cash long before Vladimir Putin`s invasion of Ukraine.
Joining us now is Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney. Democrat of New York. She is the chair of the House Oversight Committee and the author of the “Corporate Transparency Act”.
Chairwoman Maloney, thank you very much for being here. What can you tell us about Russian billionaires in the so-called billionaires` row of ultra luxury residential skyscrapers in Manhattan?
REP. CAROLYN MALONEY (D-NY): Well, we know that many people, Russian and otherwise, hide their assets in America. And I`m particularly concerned about it, not only because of the oligarchs, but because of terrorists and financing. So I authored this and passed it. It`s now the law. And treasury is now implementing the rules to make the system work. And what it would allow, it would allow law enforcement with new cars, to go behind the LLCs that hide who really owns these buildings, these apartments, these businesses in America.
It was go behind the LLC and so you will be true beneficial owner is. So, the president has come out with a very comprehensive, and I would say, swift and strong response that is closely coordinated with our international allies. But we need to implement it.
And we know that we have many LLCs. If you guys go to Manhattan at night, there are literally that don`t have any lights on.
That means they are literally bank accounts, and my bill will allow us to go behind the veil of secrecy, and see who truly owns it.
CAPEHART: Chairwoman, what are some of the other ways these Russian billionaires are hiding their money that people wouldn`t expect?
MALONEY: Well, they are hiding it, as the president said in their yachts, their houses. Their assets and what the president proposed is legislation which I strongly support that would make it easier to seize and forfeit oligarch assets and really create authority to make it easier to sell off these assets and then use the proceeds to aid the Ukrainian people and Ukraine. So that`s what we intend to pass.
CAPEHART: Chairwoman Carolyn Maloney, thank you for joining us tonight.
Coming up, the January 6 committee prepares to tell the story of the worst presidential political offense against the union in American history. Maya Wiley and Glenn Kirschner will join us to talk about that next.
[22:42:42]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): We now have the evidence to support a story of the worst presidential political crime against the union in American history. Nothing that any other president ever did comes close to what happened on that day. REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD):
And it will be harrowing for the American people to watch this story unfold as we almost lost it all on the afternoon and evening of January the 6.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: That was Congressman Jamie Raskin on the evidence the January 6 committee will present to the American public that support the narrative that Donald Trump and his allies attempted a coup. The House Committee investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol plans to hold at least eight hearings in June, starting June 9th.
Donald Trump, the first president to be impeached twice, is no stranger to investigations. Today the former president remains in contempt of court for failing to turn over documents subpoenaed by New York attorney general Letitia James as part of a civil investigation into the Trump organization.
A New York judge denied Donald Trump`s request to reverse a $10,000 a day contempt fine today.
Joining us now are Maya Wiley incoming president and chief executive officer of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and Glenn Kirschner, a former federal prosecutor. Both are MSNBC legal analysts.
Let`s listen to the chairman of the January 6 Committee, Bennie Thompson. We will talk about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Well, we`ll tell the story about what happened. We will use a combination of witnesses, exhibits, things that we have through the tens of thousands of exhibits we`ve interviewed and looked at, as well as the hundreds of witnesses we have deposed or just talk to in general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPEHART: Maya, how do you expect the January six committee to tell the story of what happened on January 6 in a way that we have not heard before?
MAYA WILEY, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it is really fascinating. There is so much evidence that have been amassed. We know that there`s are things that we know already that are in the public sphere. So, eight hearings is a lot. I think, you know, what the story that they need to paint for the American people have to be backed by evidence that is compelling to the American people, right.
[22:49:55]
WILEY: So what they want to show is not just that all this violence and horror happened because the American public already knows that. The question is the role, the activity, the responsibility, and the reasons why Trump allies and the Trump administration, and members of Congress actively participated in organizing it.
How they organized it. How much they knew? As we know, we`ve had unfolding evidence that suggests that folks like Mark Meadows knew that organizers were fearful of violence, were fearful of the people that were being asked to speak at the rally.
So you know, the way it needs to unfold is really a clear story about the willingness of this administration and its allies to use the power of the presidency, and the power that powerful bully pulpit the president has to get to a point where this violence happens and why?
The why is so important. Because part of what they have to do is overcome the narrative for some who believed that the president was just doing something he lawfully thought he had the power to do, told by some lawyers that he had the power because there was fraud in the election, to try to interrupt this vote.
Well, we know that is not true. And as lawyers, we know it. But you have to paint that picture for the American public so they understand just how outrageous it was and just how many facts there are that Trump actually understood that.
CAPEHART: And Glenn, in terms of painting that picture, what is the best way to present the evidence, a lot of which we have seen before, for it to be effective?
GLENN KIRSCHNER, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So Jonathan, I don`t think we`re going to learn that much about the actual attack on the Capitol. Because we have seen it on an endless loop and it remains horrific every time we watch it.
But I think we are going to hear a whole lot about the funding, the organizing, the planning. We`re going to hear potentially about members of Congress giving reconnaissance tours. We`re going to hear about, you know, it is not only the people who participated in the Capitol attack, the insurrectionists themselves.
But you know, you can be liable for being part of the insurrection if you gave aid and comfort to the people who actually attacked the Capitol, or if you covered up crimes about which you knew.
You know, we have, what I call the cover up club, right? And that club consists of Bannon, and Meadows, Navarro and Scavino — all of whom have been referred for criminal prosecution by Congress for contempt.
You also have some people who seem to be filling out applications to join the cover-up club. McCarthy, Perry, and Jordan have been asked once to voluntarily appear, and they have declined. And we now hear from Chairman Thompson they are going to be asked again. We don`t know if they`re going to be subpoenaed.
But, you know, as compared to the 900 plus witnesses who have cooperated, and testified behind closed doors, I would much rather be among the 900 witnesses who told the committee what happened as opposed to that very small number of people who are members of the cover-up club because we have all heard, if the crime don`t get you, the cover-up will, and they may have a lot of trouble coming their way.
CAPEHART: Maya, then Maya, will that pressure, the Justice Department to act?
WILEY: Well look, I think all of the facts that we have heard out in the public sphere already are real pressure for the Department of Justice to instigate a criminal investigation beyond those who were physically participating in violence on January 6.
But I want to go back to something that Glenn is saying right now. Because I think this is an important distinction. The committee`s job is not to prove the crime. The committee`s job is to prove how bad this is for our democracy, how intentional, and that we therefore half to have a real and meaningful criminal investigation.
The reason that is so important is because, you know, one of the things that they need to be a little bit careful about I think is not trying to show the public everything, because it is too much. You don`t bury the lead, right? We know from journalism, you`d say do not bury the lead.
CAPEHART: Right.
WILEY: Right. There has to be a headline. There has to be eight headlines here, and then each one of those days, the public is hearing the headline over, and over throughout that day.
CAPEHART: Right. And Maya, in journalism and newspapers, it`s don`t bury the lead. And television, the clock is king.
Maya Wiley and Glenn Kirschner, we are out of time. Thank you for joining us, we will be right back.
[22:54:50]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAPEHART: Before we go tonight, we have a follow-up to an interview Lawrence did with Steven Donziger earlier this week. Chevron Corporation said in response to the interview, “The federal district court in Manhattan ruled that Mr. Donziger obtained the Ecuadorian judgment by corrupt means and engaged in a pattern of racketeering activity. The ruling was unanimously affirmed by the U.S. Court of Appeals which declared that the record reveals a parade of corrupt actions by Mr. Donziger and his team, including coercion, fraud, and bribery.
[22:59:55]
CAPEHART: “New York`s courts disbarred Mr. Donziger for his egregious professional misconduct. Mr. Donziger`s attacks on the federal judiciary for holding him accountable are outrageous and offensive.
That does it for me tonight. I am Jonathan Capehart. I will see you on “THE SUNDAY SHOW”, Sunday morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC.
“THE 11TH HOUR” starts right now.